Cheating

[pharoah21]

This thread may make me the enemy of the forum.........but I just gotta bring this up.

Why is cheating in a relationship considered wrong? I find that most people who are stuck with one person all their life tend to decline in health at a fast rate (put on weight, lose their passion and enthusiasm for life etc), while those who stay living the single life look so much younger, healthier and more fit.

After a long time in a relationship, most men and women start to develop wandering eyes, the sex between them tends to become quite grey, that's if it still exists at all.

Now I know most of you will try to give me an example of a relationship that is working out perfectly after x amount of decades, but that is probably less than 1% of humanity who will ever encounter the stereo typical soul mate to live the rest of their life with happily ever after.

Why do we get jealous when someone cheats? When you think about this logically, isn't this selfish behaviour? To expect someone MUST give themselves to you and ONLY you, for the rest of their lives........doesn't that sound wrong to you? Even scientists have supposedly found that "cheating" is in our dna, that is, for a man to feel the need to spread his seed to many different women to ensure survival of his lineage.

Now I'm not saying we should all become promiscuous, if you're truly happy in a long term relationship, kudos to you. All I'm saying is I think when we fall in love, the endorphins rush, we have an amazing time with one special person, and then that river eventually starts to dry up for most people, yet some of us force ourselves to stay in that relationship while dehydrating because "we should be together forever"

“They spoil every romance by trying to make it last forever.” - Oscar Wilde

[Unified Serenity]

If you are unhappy in your relationship, and I am speaking in the general "your, you" etc, then leave. My guess is the reason most people cheat are one of three reasons:

1. They are not totally done with their partner, and are not loyal enough to not cheat if given the opportunity
2. They are greedy and don't want to amicably separate and give up some material possession if they leave, so they cheat.
3. They enjoy the rush of sneaking around and having an elicit affair.

The fact is that you can be honest with people and find someone who understands the wandering eye. I have had several friends with open marriages that were very successful. I have never met anyone in a "triad" that stayed together for the long haul, though I am sure that happens. The open marriage's that worked were extremely solid and anyone they "played" with was just that, a toy, a diversion, maybe a cared for diversion, but would never come between the marriage partners. They were happy, and it was not cheating.

Cheating is about honor and lying. It is breaking a sacred vow. If you enter a contract with known rules and guidelines and the other party breaks them, you feel cheated when you catch them. You feel betrayed when you realize the person you trusted broke the contract for X excuse. Most people like monogamy because they feel safer there. Most people are selfish and when they are no longer happy rather than work on the relationship, they just rather take the easy road and cheat. Some are in tough situations like their husband or wife gets injured and is paralyzed and can no longer please them sexually, but they love them still and want to take care of them, and they don't want to hurt them by openly having a sex partner. So, they "cheat". That last one is the hard one. I doubt very many are in that situation. Oh, and the one injured say as paralyzed more than likely knows the partner is having sex with someone, but they appreciate not knowing about it. In fact most partners know when they are being cheated on, but don't want to face it unless they have to.

Cheating is wrong imho. I have to live honestly, and I can tell you not only have I never cheated on my partner, I have never returned to one I left. Once trust is broken it is nearly impossible to rebuild, and leopard's do not change their spots unless there is a miracle involved. People are who they are, and I would rather let them be than change them.

[Star1111]

Phaorah 1

My God............ this is what I have been saying all my life.
However, the title of your thread is cheating.

IMO cheating is nasty, dishonorouble, sly, selfish and deceitful to the other person (and not good for the indiviudal doing it either)

So why not try it this way...............Be honorouble and tell the person that you are with that 1) you don't want to be with them anymore becuase the feeling has gone 2) because you want to be with someone else or 3) ask them if its o.k with them if you can 'be' with other people or 4) whatever the reason is ............ but tell them, don't cheat on them.

Be honest. So much better IMO.

I like your honesty and believe in a lot of what you have said.
x

[Robert J. Niewiadomski]

Hi All

This jealousy starts with the promise: till death do us apart. And children are learning from their parents and then from their peers not to keep promises. It start with the "small" things. Promissed toy/favor "forgotten" here or there. Cheating is not inherited with DNA. It is a habit passed down the generations. Indigenous people do not cheat each other untill they meet "whites". If somebody doesn't plan to keep the promise he/she should stay single and avoid making promises to his/her partner. Simple IMHO.

Have you read a book Magical Child by Joseph Chilton Pearce?

[Lord Sidious]

I don't know how it is ''most'' but as with everything else on our world, it is corrupted because we are too.

[Unified Serenity]

Good points all, and to the OP I will say I enjoyed your post and do believe you said a lot of truthful things about people. One thing I have always found a bit funny is that many times the cheater gets all bent out of shape if their partner cheats on them. Men are not Bucks, Stallions, Lions or any other animal on that level or sense. Men are spiritual beings first having a physical experience. For me, this starts with a spiritual problem of selfishness that ruins or at least negatively impacts the lives of those whom they care(d).

We do not live in a society set up for communal care for men to abandon their responsibilities and everything will just work out fine. Cheating causes divorce, children lose the cohesive balance of their two parent system. Sometimes they get lucky and their new step father or step mother is very loving and cares for them as a parent, but often they do not get such a step parent. Instead, the new step father /mother looks at them as a problem they have to suffer because they like the child's parent. Our society suffers because of these wounded souls trying to grow up and we watch the cycle repeat. The damage has been vast and is possibly at the core of most of our problems of lawless, lack of conscience, drug abuse, early sexual behavior as girls seek to feel loved by a male and daddy is gone, boys seek to become the man and replace their lousy dad. Cheating is wrong. It would be better for those unable to keep their vows to remain single and pretend they are bucks and stallions, but they lose out and miss the opportunity many of them long for of family, children, and the "happy" home. Pick one or the other, and if you choose to be single, focus on single women to play with and leave the married one's alone. Same for the female cougars out there. Don't have children and enjoy living single, but know you are giving up the whole "family" thing later in life and may regret that.

[RMorgan]

Well, my friend. I thing the word "cheating" is by itself the same as dishonesty, but I guess you have expressed your self mistakenly, so I get your point.

In some places, it´s ok for a man to be married with more than one woman. There was a time as well, in the western civilization, that "cheating" was not considered that wrong, for both sides of the relationship, just take a look at the 20´s.

However, it´s about mutual agreement as well. I know some couples that feel fine about sharing their partners and they seem to live a happy life. Who am I to judge. But if you love a girl who truly believe in monogamy, you´ll have to respect her, and that means you have to be only with her.

For this kind of situation, I like to put myself on the other person´s shoes. Would I like if my girlfriend had sex with another man? I wouldn´t. From the moment I don´t agree with such behavior, I also don´t have the right to have sex with another girl as well. This is called mutual respect.

However, if you find a girl that doesn´t care if you have sex with another girl, and if you don´t care if she have sex with another man, and you love each other anyway, than just go live your live and be happy. For some people, it´s possible to have such relationship.

I am engaged with a girl, you know. I´ve never cheated on her. I love and respect her. I know that, after some time, that passion fades away, but it fades away just to give place to love, which is a much special thing. Love is not a fixed feeling; you discover it with time and that´s why really long relationships are so beautiful sometimes.

I know it sound "cliche", but when you know how to cultivate love, it only grows...

When you truly love someone, you respect her, you protect her from others and from yourself as well.

I am a man. When I see a pretty girl on the streets, I look at her, but that´s all I do. These carnal desires are just an expression of the animal, primitive instinct within. Personally, I´m always working on my personal evolution and that includes, not suppressing these animal desires, but to understand them, to realize how insignificant they are before the magnificence of true, pure love.

I´m not saying I´m right. It´s just my opinion. I perfectly understand and respect your point of view as well.

Cheers,

Raf.

[9eagle9]

I think its mostly the agreements that have been made that have dishonored. If one implicates they are totally into Monogomy and then makes another case further down the road the other partner is naturally going to feel cheated. Some people just naturally expect monogamy without discussing it. They don't even want to discuss it for fear of what they may hear and then just glide along expecting the other person is agreeable to their expecations. Mind, most of what we expect relationships to be like come from TV...lol.

In any relationship no matter what sort open or closed, I think its better to leave things open ended, stop trying to nail each other down in the future by committing each other there. The most one can say is I am happy with you at this moment and time and leave it at that. It's left up to the other to decide if they can cope with that or not. I doubt they can because that is very much a spiritual precept living in the now. People claim they can be agreeable with it, but basically they are just being agreeable to 'get you' and then later on down the road take objection to it.

but its hard to commit to the future and remain honorable. Nor do I personally want to be pressured into making commitments I'm not sure if my life circumstances will allow me to honor. Again I am inclined towards monogamy, actually I'm more inclined towards being single because people want to condition everything and that is a very draining energy.What do you want for the future, where do you want this to go, yammer yammer yammer.. I don't know. If I am actually evolving in spirit now how can I honestly say what I will want in a year's time. Hell I'm not the same person I was a year ago. But I establish right off the bat, not interested in making firm commitments, not interested in marriage, not interested in co habitating.

Oh great wonderful , says they. Well two months down the road they are pushing for the very thing and disgruntled because I'm not agreeing to it. This has nothing to do with monogamy but its essentialy the same mechanism, they feel cheated--they feel as if I am cheating them when there is no other person involved. And whose fault is that. They figured that being in some form of a relationship will change me. Well I'm in piss poor shape if I'm changed that easily!. I think though men tend to take that as a challenge or I'm playing 'hard to get'. Well if they weren't into ownership games then I'd not be so hard to get. I'm a person, not a 'thing' to get.

Very common attitudes. Women do it too but I can only speak from a female perspective.


No one ever knows what sort of person they are going to be in the future. People change, people grow and sometimes people out grow each other. Most relationships I've seen end is because one partner was of an acceleratd spiritual growth and the other not. The relationship didn't fail it was just outgrown. No one failed although its tended to be looked at that way. People tend also to confuse the relationship and mix it up with their self identity. A relationship is really just a platform for people to interact, however it is established. Our work relationships tend to be established at work, the office, the platform to allow the relationship to progress. Those relationships evolve, and end and start over again and we are okay with it but we are not okay with our interpersonal relationships doing the same thing are we.

We use those to prop ourselves up, we become the relationship instead of the relationship being the means to interact. Know what I mean? Like the work relationship we are still individuals , the two giving a part of themselves to form a nearly third entity--the relationship. The relationship is there to keep people from owning each other, its supposed to be a shared place, but people in thier insecurity, want to own the other person. Establish what the relationship should be based on whatever their needs are.

Co dependency though is epidemic amongst humans, the need to have an established partner that lives up to all their expectations in order to feel safe. Establish yourself right off the bat, if the other person isn't listening or just nodding thier heads to placate you and then demonstrating that sort of "I need to establish everything between us now and in the future' then its up to YOU to re-establish things. If they don't like it; they still have choices. And they need to be reminded periodically that your intially established circumstances still remain. It is notoriously hard because they tune that out expecting that you will change in some fashion to accomadate them.

I am essentially a monogomous person but I don't like anyone pushing me for commitments for the future. I can only be committed in the now because I have no idea what sort of person I will be nor will they be in the future to make a commitment from. The now is where everything comes out to determine what one may look forward to in the future...or not. If they are pushy in the now chances are that isn't going to change . People change yes, but i'm leery of people who are not listening to what I'm saying and then amubshing me about it later demanding to know why I'm not planning for the future.

Some relationships are better conducted at a safe distance.

So yeah if someone pushes you for a commitment and then gaily prances off to boff the entire world after they've extracted it from you thats really dick-headed-behavior. But if the non-monagamist has established themselves and their circumstances right off and the other person has issues with it....what can you do. The other person is actually hurting themselves via their own choice. They CHOSE to carry on with you and are hurt by not respecting your essential nature.

Then again there are those people who are really monogamy minded but feel so pressured in a relationship that they percieve their only way to remain free is to wander hither and yon. That's going against their essential nature as well. That's wrong too.Those people find out they really are monogamy minded when they have a relationship without all this pressure and expectation imposed on them.

We are really living in an uncertain time in history all sort of things are occuring metaphysically, physically, psychically ....I mean it would be very hard to establish anything for the future with any degree of certainty.

Some people are really becoming tuned in to a higher sort of intellgience and prefer not being attached as it provides something that a plain old ordinary human relationship lacks. All these conditions that some people require , they carry their own energy, people's conditions carry energy, period, and as some people become more unconditionable they find the energy of some relationships intolerable or only undertaken in small doses. And this a new place in time for those sorts of people where they old paradigms about relationships still rule and their essential selves are going against that established grain.

[Carolin]

The way we feel about something or someone is for the most part created in our minds. Those "new relationship" sensations can be recreated time and time again by what we focus on. Obviously there needs to be a strong foundation and the desire to stay together by both parties. My biggest turn on is that my husband loves me warts and all after 22 years. That and the fact the he knows I would kill him in his sleep if he ever cheated on me is the secret to our marriage.

[The One]

Some religions you can have more than one wife

Sorry but one woman in the house for me is more than enough lol

THE GOOD OLD WANDERING EYE

It all depends on what you want,when i go out sometimes i see men in thier 50's and 60s trying to cop off with much younger women and i think to myself do i want to be doing that at their age.I certainly do not.

Its what you make of life me and my partner are still extremly attractive to each other.We have a great set of friends who are all healthy and happy.

I dont think anyone knows for sure how long things last but if you are happy keep on enjoying the ride

[Amity]

Posted by Robert J. Niewiadomski (here)
Hi All

This jealousy starts with the promise: till death do us apart. And children are learning from their parents and then from their peers not to keep promises. It start with the "small" things. Promissed toy/favor "forgotten" here or there. Cheating is not inherited with DNA. It is a habit passed down the generations. Indigenous people do not cheat each other untill they meet "whites". If somebody doesn't plan to keep the promise he/she should stay single and avoid making promises to his/her partner. Simple IMHO.

Have you read a book Magical Child by Joseph Chilton Pearce?

I don't understand how you can make that statement?

How on earth could you or anyone say that no indigenous people cheated untill they met Whites?

I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous.

[ktlight]

Well, to love someone does not mean that you own them. When you are in a relationship, there are three aspects to it. There is that which is your own life, there is that which is your partner's life and then there is the life that is shared. This does mean that both meet other people at all times and there are after all only men and women to meet.

He is a singer, and I have seen women behave seductively towards him many, many times. If it happened that he fell for the charms of another, he has the right to fall. I would not take it that he cheated me - cheated me out of what?? It would not mean that he does not love me, nor I him.

[WhiteFeather]

Religions Started This Marriage Thingy, and the church is full of corruption. So Is Cheating Allowed Now?

[toothpick]

Hi pharoah21, great thread.
This is a tough one ,i mean, everyone has different ideas about all these different scenarios on cheating, and i think some of the language involved speaks volumes about how these cheating situatons will end up, i mean, come on, with the following applicable words, you could use in any cheating discusson, what other ending could there possibly be, but, despair after using such words, to a loved one, as; cheating, hate, lying, deceit, bitch, I hate you, bastard, committment for life, possession, jealousy, leech, parasite and it can and would get much worse.
Cheating for myself is just plain bad morals, period, but i vaguely remember along time ago i was a young fella, aw, never mind.
We are all human with the frailtes and the needs we all have as humans, but we are also very individually different from one another and that includes monogamous, gay, Fritz the Cat or whatever.
So, i see every situation different, some people like life long committment and some can,t stand it.

[alienHunter]

jealousy is biological and 'cheating' is a manifestation of that imperative violated. I tend to agree with the assessment, though. Call me single, safe, and sane...

[Lord Sidious]

Posted by Amity (here)

Posted by Robert J. Niewiadomski (here)
Hi All

This jealousy starts with the promise: till death do us apart. And children are learning from their parents and then from their peers not to keep promises. It start with the "small" things. Promissed toy/favor "forgotten" here or there. Cheating is not inherited with DNA. It is a habit passed down the generations. Indigenous people do not cheat each other untill they meet "whites". If somebody doesn't plan to keep the promise he/she should stay single and avoid making promises to his/her partner. Simple IMHO.

Have you read a book Magical Child by Joseph Chilton Pearce?

I don't understand how you can make that statement?

How on earth could you or anyone say that no indigenous people cheated untill they met Whites?

I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous.

White people are the cancer of human history, didn't you get that notice yet?
Seriously though, why do people attribute things to groups because of their religion/skin colour/whatever?
The bias can come from many sources, hatred, fear, envy, anger but at the end of the day, it is all as real as a mirage is in the desert.
Nuggetry knows no bounds.

[PixieDust]

Posted by Star1111 (here)
Phaorah 1

My God............ this is what I have been saying all my life.
However, the title of your thread is cheating.

IMO cheating is nasty, dishonorouble, sly, selfish and deceitful to the other person (and not good for the indiviudal doing it either)

So why not try it this way...............Be honorouble and tell the person that you are with that 1) you don't want to be with them anymore becuase the feeling has gone 2) because you want to be with someone else or 3) ask them if its o.k with them if you can 'be' with other people or 4) whatever the reason is ............ but tell them, don't cheat on them.

Be honest. So much better IMO.

I like your honesty and believe in a lot of what you have said.
x

i agree with you star 100%. Cheating, as in going behind their back, lying and ommissions, is hurtful behavior. In my opinion the sexual act of cheating isnt what would hurt me but the betrayal and lies.

i dont see a problem in having a relationship where outside partners are aloud as long as both parties agree on guidlines and everything. If one is uncomfortable then leave them or come up with another solution. but as star said, be honorable.

in my personal life i am committed and loyal 100%. thats just who i am and i expect my partner to be the same and he knows it and how important it is to me.

[christian]

Falling in love actually means letting carnal lust take the place behind the steering wheel and is not the same thing as truly feeling and expressing absolute undconditional love. Buddha says one should refrain from unhealthy sexual relationships. It's unhealthy to create a child irresponsibly and unhealthy to throw away sperm in my opinion, it is said Lemurians and Egyptians have known about this and knew how to reverse the sperm flow in a process of inner alchemy and there is lots of evidence that Daoists did it and many people do it today to, the main learning source (considering books, the other main source is consciousness of course) are contemporary books from Mantak Chia, from what I found. And then sex is all about subtle ethereal energetics. Promiscous sex feels extraordinary, as does ejaculation and people might become addicted to it, but it's just as healthy as taking any other drug, it gives a quick fix, that is in no comparison to what could be experienced if sexual energy would be used wisely.

We live in a 3d world experiencing duality and a healthy relationship between a man and a woman can be of great benefit, balancing both their energies.

As for your hypothesis, pharoah21, that singles are in better shape, there is a lot of evidence, that suggests the opposite.

[Ineffable Hitchhiker]

Hi pharoah21,
why would this thread make you the enemy of the forum?
Look at all the wonderful responses.
I think it´s a great discussion.


What have YOU lost when the other person cheats?
A kept word? A promise? A commitment? A moral value?
Can you ever possess such things?
You can only be.
You can be honest, caring, loving.
You cannot be a word, a promise, a commitment or a moral value.
Yes, you can be a liar and a cheat but then that´s what the other person IS. It has nothing to do with you.

Some time back I read a quote in the Here and Now thread that made me laugh, but found it very poignant.

"It´s all fun and games until the "I" gets poked out.

I think it´s only "cheating" if you take "it" personally.

[Carmody]

Bonobo....?