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Thread: Cheating

  1. Link to Post #61
    United States Honored, Retired Member. Sierra passed in April 2021.
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    Default Re: Cheating

    Quote Posted by Seikou-Kishi (here)
    Quote Posted by Sierra (here)
    It's because they didn't have the institution of "marriage". There was no rule of monogamy in most indigenous culture. In Eskimo culture, they actively encouraged sexual mixing, to keep the gene pool healthy. In most Indian cultures, on American soil, they did as they wished, moving in and out of relationships. Not until the white man came along, brought in Christian Judgement and alcohol, deadly to the indigenous biology, did things go south.
    No, Sierra, that's just a lack of 'necessary relationship permanence'. Indigenous cultures weren't laissez-faire "oh look, here I am coming home to find my neighbour and my wife en flagrante". 400 years ago, divorce wasn't really a possibility, but just because it is now and people are free to end their relationships, it doesn't mean we live in a cheating-riddled world.

    A lack of sexual inhibition is absolutely not the same as cheating. A lack of sexual inhibition may be involved in cheating, but it's not all of it. Cheating is a betrayal of trust upon which the relationship is based. If the relationship doesn't require sexual exclusivity, promiscuousness is not cheating. On the other hand, if the relationship is exclusive/monogamous, sex isn't even necessary for cheating, even if it is the standard form. If indigenous cultures were quite happy to see those in a relationship dissolve their union, it cannot be taken to mean that people could not cheat in those days or that cheating is a by-product of a marital society. Cheating is the betrayal of trust, what form that betrayal takes is relative to the relationship and possible in every culture.
    I think we're saying the same thing. Exclusivity was but one of many options and you could move in and out of options is what I was trying to say. Therefore, unless one was dishonest about where one was at (and why would it be necessary to be dishonest in an open culture?) cheating didn't really come into the picture. Or at least that was my interpretation of what I read.

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    Default Re: Cheating

    Quote Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
    Quote Posted by Second Son (here)
    The real issue, to me, is not marriage, and its inherent shortcomings, it is the undisputable fact that its very proponents are those who are either: 1) sworn to a life of celibacy, and hence have no place to sanction or condone the institution of marriage. 2) Sexual deviates who routinely molest nuns, altar boys, and members of the congregation while claiming a life both pure and chaste.
    And what reason do you think the church promotes it?
    I believe we have both been members of this forum for long enough to realize that the phsycopaths at the top are practioners of sex magik, and that they practice the same rituals which have been handed down from the druids, pagans, etc., though it could be argued that they, the deranged ruling class, have added a new dimension of sacrifice/satanism, which may or may not have been a part of the ancient druidic tradition.

    I also believe that these sociopaths think the institution of marriage (in most cases) leads to a rather staid, stale, and predictable sex life, without the spark and passion which was present at the outset. This of course, leaves them, as the sole custodians of this extremely powerful creative force, whilst the uninitiated are chained to a societal construct which is disempowering.

    At least this is why the PTW promote the institution of marriage, IMHO

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  5. Link to Post #63
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    Default Re: Cheating

    Quote Posted by Second Son (here)
    Quote Posted by Lord Sidious (here)
    Quote Posted by Second Son (here)
    The real issue, to me, is not marriage, and its inherent shortcomings, it is the undisputable fact that its very proponents are those who are either: 1) sworn to a life of celibacy, and hence have no place to sanction or condone the institution of marriage. 2) Sexual deviates who routinely molest nuns, altar boys, and members of the congregation while claiming a life both pure and chaste.
    And what reason do you think the church promotes it?
    I believe we have both been members of this forum for long enough to realize that the phsycopaths at the top are practioners of sex magik, and that they practice the same rituals which have been handed down from the druids, pagans, etc., though it could be argued that they, the deranged ruling class, have added a new dimension of sacrifice/satanism, which may or may not have been a part of the ancient druidic tradition.

    I also believe that these sociopaths think the institution of marriage (in most cases) leads to a rather staid, stale, and predictable sex life, without the spark and passion which was present at the outset. This of course, leaves them, as the sole custodians of this extremely powerful creative force, whilst the uninitiated are chained to a societal construct which is disempowering.

    At least this is why the PTW promote the institution of marriage, IMHO
    I was going to say control, but now that you mention it..................

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    Default Re: Cheating

    I am naturally sceptical of anything which is propped up in by the PTW.

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    Default Re: Cheating

    Tell me, Sid, do you think the state sanctioning of marriage has anything to do with the fact that it is usually an expensive proposition to disolve, and invariably involves a lawyer or two?

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    Default Re: Cheating

    Quote Posted by Second Son (here)
    Tell me, Sid, do you think the state sanctioning of marriage has anything to do with the fact that it is usually an expensive proposition to disolve, and invariably involves a lawyer or two?
    I see it as more that they can control it, if they issue a license.
    Remember, license means in law, permission to do something, that without the permission, would be unlawful.
    If they give you permission, it straight away puts them in a position of superiority.
    Plus, what happens with the children?
    Who has the last say over them?
    And we didn't even get into the securitisation of the certificates yet, either.

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    Default Re: Cheating

    True, Sid. I have heard that some divorce judges flat out refuse to "grant" joint custody, because that lowers the amount of oversight, child support, etc. Seems that asking for a marriage liscence is akin to opening Pandora's box... you never know what the scary after effects will be.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Would it be correct to assume that anything (any asset or child) created within a state-sanctioned institution would be, by proxy, the property of the state?

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  13. Link to Post #68
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    Default Re: Cheating

    Quote Posted by Second Son (here)
    True, Sid. I have heard that some divorce judges flat out refuse to "grant" joint custody, because that lowers the amount of oversight, child support, etc. Seems that asking for a marriage liscence is akin to opening Pandora's box... you never know what the scary after effects will be.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Would it be correct to assume that anything (any asset or child) created within a state-sanctioned institution would be, by proxy, the property of the state?
    You got it.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_loco_parentis
    And now you know why they claim they can do things with your kids against your will.

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    United States Avalon Member NancyV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cheating

    I have thought a lot about having other sex partners while within a marriage since I married my first husband at the age of 18 in 1965. I suppose I was typically brainwashed into thinking that we would both naturally want to be sexually faithful since we were so much in love. It was quite a shock when I found out that my husband had multiple lovers. Aside from being hurt I had to start thinking about it....why he was driven to do this. I didn't want to leave him since I still loved him. He told me that he loved me as much as ever but he didn't feel badly about having sex with other women. He thought it was normal for a man to "stray" outside of marriage.

    So I started doing a lot of reading and research which took a lot of effort since there was no Internet. I came to the conclusion that it was biologically natural, on an animal level, for males to "spread their seed". Men and women are born with different survival traits. One of the natural traits of a man is to ensure the survival and diversity of the species and they do that by having sex with many females. A woman, however, is often fearful if she knows her man is attracted to other females because her main biological imperative is to protect her young. That means keeping the father around to provide for and protect her and the children.

    It seems to me that jealousy is about fear of loss. Men fear losing their progeny, their partner or their pride. Women fear losing their provider/partner and their idea of what love should be. This doesn't deal with religious rules or moral constructs. I'm basically saying that I think the desire to have multiple sex partners is much more natural for a man than for a woman.

    Although we have outgrown the need to reproduce plentifully since we probably have an overpopulation problem, we still have the instinct to reproduce, so men (especially the extremely virile ones with excessive testosterone) still feel the drive to have multiple sex partners. If a disaster were to occur and 90% of the human species was wiped out or if the agenda to wipe out a large percentage of the population succeeds, our instinct to reproduce would again ensure the survival of the human species.

    Religions preaching morals is about control. Maybe some of it is good, maybe some of it is bad, but it is about trying to control our natural instincts.

    As far as love, it took me 4 marriages and MANY lovers to find my soul mate at the age of 48. Probably most people don't find a soul mate and I feel lucky to have finally found mine almost 16 years ago.

    I never had a problem forgiving any of my husbands if they strayed. Of course there was always some hurt and anger but I determined not to let that make me stop loving them. I have also had other lovers occasionally while married, with the exception of this present marriage with my soul mate. My 2nd husband and I were celibate for over 3 years of our 16 year marriage while we were on a particular spiritual path and I've also studied tantra and had some incredible mergings during sex. But even the best sex cannot compare to merging while out of body. Sex is a pale imitation of merging completely with another being in other dimensions.

    It's important to remember that we are very heavily brainwashed by our society, our parents, our peers, our schools and our religions. We are also brainwashed by the media. It's very difficult to overcome that conditioning and break free of the knee jerk judgments and reactions we have that are learned from birth on. There are many reasons for "cheating", some of which are genetic urges. To make a sweeping judgment that it is wrong is a bit too simplistic for my tastes. It's quite complex and there isn't a simple answer or one right answer regarding why we may have a desire to engage in sex with multiple partners in or out of marriage.

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    Default Re: Cheating

    Once you have understood who/what you really are you would not drop your drawers or your integrity for any reason. I don't have any judgements on anyones perspectives as we all have them from what ever frame of reference we are coming from. The treads title to me means a lack of integrity and understanding of the self whatever it applys to. Best Wishes

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    Default Re: Cheating

    Quote Posted by Unified Serenity (here)
    What is it about sex that feeds the agenda of the elites?
    Do you ever have a truth that you have come to terms with, but somehow sheltered the larger portion of your psyche from, by not over examining it, and tucking it away in the recesses of your mind? This is one of those areas for me.
    I don't personaly believe in possession. Atleast, not out and out possession. But I have always thought there were entities capable of exerting considerable influence over our beings. I believe 9eagle9 called it peripheral influence, or peripheral possession. I agree with her in this regard and think this is a splendid method for describing it. I think entities may attach to folks and influence them, possibly cause them to itch if you will for certain things and coax them through such itches into a direction.
    Check out this alternative definition for peripheral

    Quote A peripheral is a device attached to a host computer, but not part of it, and is more or less dependent on the host. It expands the host's capabilities, but does not form part of the core computer architecture.
    I think this is what "may" be happening to the elite. One is acclamated to ritual in college in association to fraternities, and then low level secret orgninizations like the Masonic lodges, skull and bones, then there are high level rituals, like in the Bohemian Grove, and who knows what the hell happens behind closed doors that no one knows about above that. It was said that Stanley Kubrik knew of these things when he made "eyes wide shut".

    It seems very likely that folks are asking entities into them selves in ancient languages they no longer speak, and sealing the deal so to speak with an elaborate ceremony.

    Quote Posted by Unified Serenity (here)
    I've come across something recently that really blows the lid right off of the whole religion thing and basically says it is by our sexual coupling that we feed the lower gods / fallen angels.
    This is what Alex Grey reported seeing while on an LSD trip, and he commited to painting in his Deities Drinking From A Milky Pool

    Quote Posted by Unified Serenity (here)
    That we were not given permission by the creator to procreate, but the Anunaki stepped in and changed our DNA.
    I believe the Annunaki have stepped in several times to altar our genetics. I have also come across information stating that the Annunaki purposely made us susceptiple to beauty in a way that is disadvantagous. We were built with the facility to be impressed by beauty and to over rate it's importance. I sometimes think this factors into the need for infedelity as well.

    Quote Posted by Unified Serenity (here)
    There is a whole thread on this and you can go there to study it if you want to.
    A statement like that is ussually backed up by a link.

    Quote Posted by Unified Serenity (here)
    Here is my point. Most marriages are destroyed because the people marry when they are not ready. They make knee jerk decisions outside of community and family and just get married. They are not ready financially to marry nor emotionally. Most marriages end because of financial difficulty and also incompatibility for the short term ones. Most longer term marriages end over financial issues or STS situations. There was a time that a man could not marry until he had a home of his own. He had a means to take care of his family and this gave security to him and the bride for the safety of herself and her children.
    I personally think it is the misidentification of what love is.
    We have Eros which is known as erotic love, the ravenous and unstoppable force that convinces us we shall be carried away by it.
    We have Philos, a love based on the friendship of two people.
    We have Agape, which is unconditional love, like the love a mother has for her child.

    I think the problem lies with folks feeling the power of Eros, and then mistaking that for something that can be sustained for ever.
    And when the roaring fire of Eros subsides, if folks have not devoloped Philos for one another, they don't know what to do.
    Or, as is more often the case, they have devoloped philos and they feel this "freindship" is not what they bargained for and they want to return to the bonfire of excitement that lies in Eros.

    I personally think men and women are equally in error in this area.
    And this error is fed to gargantuan proportions by the movies we watch and the books we read.

    So often I hear the phrase "I fell out of love", and not to be judgemental but it's all fine and dandy if you don't have kids.
    I could care less if you don't have kids.
    But if you have children, one should hope your personal gratifications could be subjucated and properly prioritized.
    The need to fly off on a cloud of eros is relagated to trivial in the face of raising children and should be looked upon as both selfish and greedy should a person abandon a parenting relationship so one can seek sexual and erotic gratification.

    I may not be popular for this, but I would suggest discrete infidelity before I would suggest breaking apart a parental unit.
    Last edited by DNA; 26th November 2011 at 14:27.

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  20. Link to Post #72
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    Default Re: Cheating

    Quote Posted by Sierra (here)
    I think we're saying the same thing.
    Quite possibly XD

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    Default Re: Cheating

    The importance of trust and responsibility.

    If beings feel they can trust you, then you are reliable.
    If you feel responsible, then you can love.

    If you do not care, then you do not care.
    If you waste your choice, then your choice is wasted.

    A good heart is an easy path.




    What sort of world do you want?

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    Default Re: Cheating

    I will be terse: Unconditional love between a man, and a woman... there is only one other relationship on this planet to compare it to, and that is the relationship one can have with one's creator.

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  26. Link to Post #75
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    Default Re: Cheating

    Quote Posted by pharoah21 (here)
    This thread may make me the enemy of the forum.........but I just gotta bring this up.

    Why is cheating in a relationship considered wrong? I find that most people who are stuck with one person all their life tend to decline in health at a fast rate (put on weight, lose their passion and enthusiasm for life etc), while those who stay living the single life look so much younger, healthier and more fit.
    Actually, dwindling health, and letting things go loose has nothing to do with being with one person for a life-long time. I'm not sure how you got those things connected with each other but it is one of the most ridiculous things I've read in a while.

    If anything, the opposite stands to more truth. The longer you stay with a person, the more you try to maintain good physique and be at the peak of your health, so as to not to smudge the circumstances that got them both attracted to each other in the first place.

    You only have to take a glimpse at magazines like Men's health/Women's Health. But, magazines aside, scientists (as you brought them up yourself) think differently:

    Mark Hayward

    512-471-8382

    mhayward@prc.utexas.edu

    Quote Hayward's research reveals divorced middle-aged women are 60 percent more likely to get cardiovascular disease-even when they remarry-than women who remain married. The research reveals emotional distress and a decline in financial status were the main factors linking divorce to heart disease in women.
    We all know the main reason why divorces are sky high. Read your thread title.

    Quote There is also growing evidence for the psychological
    health benefits of a romantic partner. For example, married
    individuals have been found to have greater psychological
    health and report being happier and more satisfied with
    their lives
    than their unmarried peers (Bookwala and Schulz
    1996; Bradburn 1969; Gove 1979; Gove et al. 1983; Tucker
    et al. 1996).
    This is part of a research paper titled "Romantic Relationships and Health: An Examination of Individuals’ Perceptions of their Romantic Partners’ Influences on their Health", which you can download it here for free, so you can read more (and maybe by some miracle, change your way of viewing monogamous relationships a little).

    Quote Posted by pharoah21 (here)
    After a long time in a relationship, most men and women start to develop wandering eyes, the sex between them tends to become quite grey, that's if it still exists at all.

    Now I know most of you will try to give me an example of a relationship that is working out perfectly after x amount of decades, but that is probably less than 1% of humanity who will ever encounter the stereo typical soul mate to live the rest of their life with happily ever after.
    That is not true.

    Quote Large-scale studies executed in the United States over the past 40 years have found that at least 37 percent of men and 29 percent of women have engaged in sex outside their marital relationship.
    Source

    ^ ^ ^ This means that 63 % of men and 71 % of women still remain faithful and loyal to their spouses/partners.

    That's hardly "most" people. In fact, it suggests 'most' people do prefer monogamy.

    So, get your facts and percentages straight.

    Quote Posted by pharoah21 (here)
    Why do we get jealous when someone cheats? When you think about this logically, isn't this selfish behaviour? To expect someone MUST give themselves to you and ONLY you, for the rest of their lives........
    If they made that kind of promise to you, and actually tried to convince you in that notion over some period of time, then yes, I, as well as anyone else would expect them to "walk the talk". What's the point in being with somebody (even if its not marriage, or anything as closely as serious ) if they are going to lie to you, or betray you?

    Most people take hurt from that. Not the fact that they slept with somebody else (although that adds additional damage too). The betrayal is the more painful and sad fact they have to deal with, which causes emotional strain.

    If you (speaking generally here) feel you are incapable of engaging in a monogamous relationship, stop convincing others you are, and even engage in such relationships.

    I don't see the point in making somebody develop an emotional attachment to you, if you are going to just destroy it all later on. People don't like being lied to, being played like an instrument, or having their time wasted.

    I feel all of the above, is actually selfish, not what you OP outlined is.

    If you can't help bit have the "wondering eyes" and sexual attractions for various other people you cannot dim down, then monogamy is not for you, and leave it for people that do prefer it. Why engage in it at all? That's what I don't understand. I never did. And I never will.

    Quote Posted by pharoah21 (here)
    All I'm saying is I think when we fall in love, the endorphins rush, we have an amazing time with one special person, and then that river eventually starts to dry up for most people, yet some of us force ourselves to stay in that relationship while dehydrating because "we should be together forever"

    “They spoil every romance by trying to make it last forever.” - Oscar Wilde
    There are many, many cases where this is not the scenario being played out.

    If you are with the right person, things may become toned down and less exciting like they were at the start, but you won't loose the sexual attraction, emotional attachment, or feel like things between you and your partner are becoming dull and boring.

    Monogamy monotony.
    Last edited by OnyxKnight; 26th November 2011 at 17:36.

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    Default Re: Cheating

    Your tenor lacks a certain, je ne sais quoi, Onyx, but I loved your post and research your presented. A great post, all things considered.

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    Default Re: Cheating

    It is said, that there are those that desire to see their partner cheat?
    People too weak to follow their own dreams will always find a way to discourage yours.

    twitter:@armleywhite

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    Default Re: Cheating

    Quote Posted by Seikou-Kishi (here)
    Your tenor lacks a certain, je ne sais quoi, Onyx, but I loved your post and research your presented. A great post, all things considered.
    I enjoyed Onyx's post as well. I felt it could have been a tad,,,,well,,,,nicer, but I just don't think that is Onyx's style.

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    Default Re: Cheating

    I think what you mean to ask is, "Is love about control or letting go of fear?"

    For most people, love is about desperately clutching the other person in the relationship in fear of either losing them or in fear of them making their own decisions for themselves. It doesn't have to be this way, but we are conditioned socially and genetically to react this way in certain situations. It is a similar principle as occurs during disagreements between people. Most people believe that if another person doesn't share the same opinion or beliefs as them, that this is an act of violence. What is violent is the projection of perceived violence onto the other party when one feels insecure.

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    Default Re: Cheating

    I have been following this thread with great interest: I am lucky enough never to have had to face anyone cheating on me, and I truly don't know how I would deal with it...

    The title, Cheating, is unequivocal: cheating any other person (whether or not they are your lover) is a manifestation of dishonesty and disrespect and is done from a wish/desire to gain some kind of advantage over somebody else.

    It seems, from reading the thread, that there are different ways to view love.
    Maybe we all experience it in different ways - and our "attachment style" will also have an effect on our relationships.

    Some people see love as a deep, sacred bond.
    Others seem to see it as a a bit of a game, something to dip into and enjoy for as long as it lasts.
    And there seem to be those who use it as a way to exert power over another person.

    I wonder how many of the people who are truly in the first category would cheat?

    I found this - Styles of Love based on the work of the sociologists Lee and Regan - made interesting reading:

    Styles of Love:

    Eros – some people experience love with a lot of passion, intimacy and intensity. Love based on Eros has a strong sexual and emotional component. People who experience love this way want to be emotionally and physically close to their romantic partners and they tend to idealize love. Such love is marked by passion as well as compassion (kindness and consideration). Eros is best viewed as romantic, passionate love - the type of love that creates excitement at the beginning of a new relationship.

    Ludus – some people experience love as a game to be played with other people’s emotions. The goal or desire is to gain control over a partner through manipulation. People who experience love as Ludus like to have multiple love interests where they are in complete control. Lying, cheating and deception are common for people who experience love as Ludus – it’s all part of the game. For people who experience love as Ludus, it is satisfying to outwit a partner and exploit his or her weak spots (see, husband plays with my heart, who is likely to cheat, lovefraud).

    Storge – some people experience love as a gradual and slow process. When love is based on Storge, getting to know someone comes before having intense feelings for that person. Love based on Storge takes time, it requires genuine liking and understanding of a partner, and it develops slowly over time. Love based on Storge is often compared to the love that one has for a friend. In fact, people who experience love as Storge often fall in love with their friends.

    Agape – some people experience love as caregiving. Love is the overwhelming desire to want to take care of a partner - a parental or nurturing type of love. Love based on Agape is attentive, caring, compassionate and kind - a more altruistic or selfless type of love.

    Mania – some people experience love as being out of control. Love is an overwhelming experience; it turns one’s life upside down and it results in a complete loss of one’s identity. Love based on Mania is crazy, impulsive and needy. People who experience love as Mania fall in love quickly, but their love tends to consume them. Love experienced as Mania also tends to burnout before it gets the chance to mature. Such love is often marked by extreme delusions, feelings of being out of control, rash decisions, and vulnerability. People who experience love as Mania are easily taken advantage of by people who experience love as Ludus.

    Pragma – some people take a practical approach to love. Love is not crazy, intense, or out of control. Love is based on common sense and reason. People who experience love as Pragma tend to pick a suitable mate the way most other people make serious life decisions: picking a partner is based on careful consideration and reason. Practical concerns underlie this type of love.

    Agape – some people experience love as caregiving. Love is the overwhelming desire to want to take care of a partner - a parental or nurturing type of love. Love based on Agape is attentive, caring, compassionate and kind - a more altruistic or selfless type of love.

    Mania – some people experience love as being out of control. Love is an overwhelming experience; it turns one’s life upside down and it results in a complete loss of one’s identity. Love based on Mania is crazy, impulsive and needy. People who experience love as Mania fall in love quickly, but their love tends to consume them. Love experienced as Mania also tends to burnout before it gets the chance to mature. Such love is often marked by extreme delusions, feelings of being out of control, rash decisions, and vulnerability. People who experience love as Mania are easily taken advantage of by people who experience love as Ludus.

    Pragma – some people take a practical approach to love. Love is not crazy, intense, or out of control. Love is based on common sense and reason. People who experience love as Pragma tend to pick a suitable mate the way most other people make serious life decisions: picking a partner is based on careful consideration and reason. Practical concerns underlie this type of love.


    In a relationship that works in a healthy way - and, despite the views of some on this thread, this is possible! - people treat each other with kindness, appreciation, concern and respect.

    And the happiness of the other is more important than your own...maybe that is at the crux of this?
    Cheating is to indulge yourself.
    Being committed is to really feel that your partner's happiness and wellbeing is more precious than your own desires.

    There is nothing as wonderful (for me) as the richness of spending my life with someone I know intimately, and who can read me without the need for words.
    It far outweighs that initial exhuberance and headiness of "falling in love" - although, to be honest, that experience is still there after 32 years.

    To use a cliche - compare the depth and smoothness of a mature vintage wine with the fresh, fizzy exciting flavour of a young wine.

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