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Thread: A New Global Economy

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    United States Avalon Member Snowbird's Avatar
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    Default A New Global Economy

    Today in the United States, we are "celebrating" Independence Day. We have now learned that there really is no such thing as Independence...or, is there?

    We've experienced first hand the exploitation of fiat currency and what it has and has not accomplished worldwide. The dollar has tanked, although in the process, many of the wealthy have become even wealthier. Even the Gulf oil gusher and all of its trappings for the suffering of the U.S. populace, has and will make many of the wealthy even wealthier. That's the way that the monetary/financial game is played. What goes up, makes them wealthy and what goes down, makes them even wealthier.

    For instance, the "top elite" 20% are wealthy. The "bottom" 80% are suffering. In the U.S., the owners of the WalMart corporation are comprised of 6 people within the Walton family. In 2009, these 6 people were worth $90 Billion. In that same year, the total wealth of the "lower" 40% of Americans was $95 Billion.

    I believe that the author of this quote is Peter Joseph, who at the link below, gives a wonderful presentation called Social Pathology: "Change, abundance, sustainability and efficiency are the enemies of profit."

    Joseph explains that in 2005, Citigroup wrote a memo to its wealthy clients:

    This is why for example, we worry less about the impact of high oil prices on aggregate consumption. Clearly high oil prices are a burden for many parts of our communities. However, without making any moral judgement, income inequality being what it is, just makes this group less relevant in the aggregate data.

    The conclusion? We should worry less about what the average consumer - say the 50th percentile-is going to do, when the consumer is (we think) less relevant to the aggregate data than how the wealthy feel and what they are doing. This is simply a case of mathematics, not morality.



    What would a new economy look like? More of the same so that more people in the "lower" echelons of the populace can continue suffering while the "top elite" continue the Up and Down game on Wall Street? Or, could it look completely and totally different? I consider genius, the bringing forth of an entirely new economic system and the vision to promote it into being. This is the gift that has been offered to the world by a small handful of American visionaries. The Venus Project
    http://www.thevenusproject.com/ is a resource-based economy where money is antiquated and non existant and what is needed is accessible and for the most part, shared. They don't teach any of the "isms" because in order for there to be an "ism", there has to be a form of government.

    The above Venus Project link is filled with quality information that is based upon solid research into how we can learn about our earth and each other and meld the two into a cohesive economy.


    Social Pathology / The Zeitgeist Movement / NYC 2010 ZDAY

    http://vimeo.com/10707453
    Last edited by Snowbird; 5th July 2010 at 15:39.
    We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
    Plato

    Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

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    United States Avalon Member Snowbird's Avatar
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    Default Re: A New Global Economy

    Just who IS Peter Joseph? I've been really curious for quite some time. He is a genius in his own right. That is quite evident. Peter Joseph, from my post above, is the originator of the Zeitgeist movement. He is the author and presenter of the Zeitgeist films. He and Jacque Fresco and Roxanne Meadows of The Venus Project have joined together as a dynamic team.

    I have linked an interview below where Peter Joseph explains to us just who he is and continues to tell it like it is.

    "The most dangerous thing that we can have right now, is a recovery of the U.S. economy."

    "Either we change, or we die."
    -Peter Joseph


    Who is Peter Joseph? - Part 1 of 6 [Zeitgeist Movement/Movie/Addendum]

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=CIINgQ1TooE
    We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
    Plato

    Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

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    Greece Avalon Member
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    Default Re: A New Global Economy

    i agree with almost all the ideas of the Venus project but the problem isnt if its possible or not. I really wish i was living in that society really... but. The vast majority of the humans in this planet are not just brainwashed to believe that money is god, they are so engrossed in this idea that taking that off them is the same as death. The 50-60+ years old ppl if you ask them will say that they spend their lives to make money so it is impossible to change and they DONT want to even think about change.

    Last in the venus project about the society make up the hardest part about that is to erase hate and misstrust. you cant persuade an american that arabs are good ppl and ofc you cant persuade an fanatic arab that there is even 1 american that deserves to live. In the venus society all ppl ARE TRUELLY equal and grow up in an enviroment that will never create fear misstrust and hatred.

    From the current society/economy to the Venus society/economy you need a clean state reset to achieve it. Now if peter can find a way to do that :-) So far he has proposed that we start using this system to make the first cities and then slowly we will win the rest .... nah it isnt possible. In the end it will continue like it is today, or it will upgrade to become a city ... more or less.

    The truth is that we need a total collapse and someone to force a new system to appear... because even if we have ww3 or total econ meltdown the society will recreate the same excatly system ... why? Brainsahed ppl cant escape being slaves so easily. You dont believe me ? go talk to your friends and you will understand. Remember atm all kids are raised to be slaves without even knowing about it and we want them to break that system they are raised to worship...

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    Poland Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: A New Global Economy

    One of the mysteries of this world is why people that really feel intelligent, fall for such half-baked "truths" like that.
    Guess they need to learn the hard way.

    They got some things right, but for all the wrong reasons, just as many other alternative guru's out there.

    All that "change" that "venus project" proposes was tried before.
    Example what such a scheme brings : Khmer Rouge in Cambodia
    Add techno-babble and 3D graphics and here you go.
    But a great exercise in mind control: some "truths", some "feel-good socialism", some "techno-utopia", carefully avoiding issue of how, exactly, resources will be obtained, distributed or exchanged, who will decide who will get what, yet there are interesting passages praising "war economy" (aka: economic dictatorship) during WWII :
    Quote At the beginning of World War II the US had a mere 600 or so first-class fighting aircraft. We rapidly overcame this short supply by turning out more than 90,000 planes a year. The question at the start of World War II was: Do we have enough funds to produce the required implements of war? The answer was No, we did not have enough money, nor did we have enough gold; but we did have more than enough resources. It was the available resources that enabled the US to achieve the high production and efficiency required to win the war. Unfortunately this is only considered in times of war.
    Made your Lenin proud (or maybe the brown-shirt variety? who knows? such round, vague statements there, and complete lack of understanding of base economic facts, like that money is not wealth, and anything is worth only as much as someone is willing to give for it)

    Those who do not learn from History are damned to repeat it.

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    Greece Avalon Member
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    Default Re: A New Global Economy

    you have it wrong saico you should go and see the videos they explain it very well. They just have the element of good will which atm is nonexistent....

    Who decides who will get what etc isnt an issue here. Atm we are droping the living conditions of the masses so they are all poor or near poor thus spending nothing. In the venus project they raise the living conditions to the best possible within logical margins. For example you dont need 10000 ectars of land to live inside a palace... humans dont need that much space to live... or they dont need to waste for example a hole fish just to slice of 2 small pieces for a plate that costs 300 dollars right?

    Anyway at least i hope you agree that atm the scarcity is created by the ppl with money to keep their power. Well need something that focuses on the human/planet side of the society and not the profit side. Anything you want to propose?

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    Poland Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: A New Global Economy

    Reality is multifaceted complex system that cannot be repaired with a hammer, no matter how big that hammer is and how much you like banging things.
    "Good" is subjective, your definition of good, and say, Bill Gates definition of good might be quite different animals.
    "Who decides" is an issue of uttermost importance, that says if the proposition is another reincarnation of totalitarian system or something else. Socialism, communism, nazism, fascism, oligarchy, feudalism, corporatism, "war economy" are all totalitarian systems, bent on pillaging of all available resources, and putting them to use that current "leaders" deem worthy, due various reasons.
    Conditions of the masses: compare living in Bangladesh, Thailand, and in Feudal Europe. Conditions are not deteriorating. Conditions are getting back to pre-industrial levels. If technology, due various reasons, would be reverted to pre-industrial state, Earth can support only as much as 500 000 000 humans. Does that ring any bells ?
    Technology is not something that "just happens". No matter how hard you pull that lever, it'll never "evolve", until someone that understand the inner work of the machine would design a more efficient way for it to perform needed action. From all available materials, I see that VP creators have no idea how the system works. They want a golden-plated handle tho.
    Who you are to decide how much space human need? It's a hallmark of totalitarian thinking. Same with fixing prices, or getting rid of money altogether.
    As I said, money is not wealth. People at the top do not give a damn about them, they can request their subordinates to create it at will. On the other hand, as long as our reality is confined to material world, its energetically efficient to exchange goods, and to do that proxy store of wealth is needed. In order to expand our capabilities, feedback mechanism about feasibility of any given scheme is crucial, or precious energy is wasted.
    Marxists never understood that, tens of millions paid ultimate price for that lack of knowledge.
    As for solutions, you need to understand fair amount of knowledge about how things work. I'd advice starting with Atlas Shrugged; It's purely materialistic, some concepts are taken too literally (line for example, is not a shortest distance between two points in time-space, a spline following curvature of local time-space is), but as far as simple concepts regarding inner works of civilization author is quite correct.. After you understand that, I'll advise A.S. 2.0 - Illuminatus! for more advanced trip.
    Awareness of the inner works of the world you participate in is a key, not more toys.
    Last edited by Luke; 6th July 2010 at 15:59. Reason: added phase2.

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    Canada On Sabbatical Deega's Avatar
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    Default Re: A New Global Economy

    Thanks Snowbird to start this tread.

    I think that the Venus Project is a great idealistic project, and one that should be brought into being but there is to many constraints (financial world, the Illuminati, Corporate Business) to implement such an idea. And maybe the Gulf of Mexico (BP oil spill) could develop a larger constraint.

    Deega

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    United States Avalon Member Snowbird's Avatar
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    Default Re: A New Global Economy

    But don't all of you agree that we should strive toward something other than what we have been saddled with for centuries? Aren't the lives of those of the future generations worth us now, taking the effort to make a great attempt to put something of value in place for them? What type of life will our grandchildren be facing if we just continue continuing on?
    We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.
    Plato

    Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

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    Default Re: A New Global Economy

    My drive for financial survival led me to conclude the only survival worthwhile pursuing is spiritual. Never mind fear or any other bogeyman.

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    United States Avalon Member NancyV's Avatar
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    Default Re: A New Global Economy

    Quote Posted by Snowbird (here)
    But don't all of you agree that we should strive toward something other than what we have been saddled with for centuries? Aren't the lives of those of the future generations worth us now, taking the effort to make a great attempt to put something of value in place for them? What type of life will our grandchildren be facing if we just continue continuing on?
    I don't agree that "we" should do this. "We" rarely works out well, but you can do good things that help yourself and possibly others which may or may not help future generations. Whenever you have two or more people working towards an idealistic goal it almost always follows the same pattern. One person is more dominant than the other and the dominant person generally takes on more of the decision making. Then when you have more people a hierarchy develops. You cannot reprogram people so they do not have greed and the desire for control and power. There will always be disagreements and someone will end up making the final decisions, even if they have to use force, intimidation or threats.

    I am not aware of a single community that was based on communal type living, and "peace, equality and love" that ever worked out for long. I've tried it myself in the 80's, and it did not work. Luckily my husband and I owned the land, so we sold it and resumed a family life instead of a community life. No matter how good your intentions are, how idealistic your goals, and how spiritual you think you are and others think they are, there are always things that interfere with the goal of "peace" and sharing things equally. I have since come to the conclusion that it is not part of human nature for most humans to let anyone else make decisions for them, AND we are not all equal. We are all so unique and have so many different likes and dislikes that it is not possible for a Utopian society to work as the idealists think it should work.

    Worrying about future generations seems rather futile to me. In fact I am not at all worried about future generations. I am not worried about anything at all. Whatever happens will happen although I do steer my life in the direction of my preferences. I will do what I feel is good while I am here. After I leave I will not have a single thought about this earth plane because I know that anyone who is here will have their perfect experience for their highest learning, whether it is pleasant or painful, whether they live a long happy life or die of starvation in childhood. It would be rather presumptuous of me to think that I know best what their life experience should be rather than what their life is destined to be. I do not know why you are here or why anyone else is here. I can only deal with my own journey and be the best person I can be within the game plan of what my purpose is for being here.

    Nancy

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