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Thread: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

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    Poland Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Original thread title: Happy Roswell day! (63rd anniversary of press announcement)


    Real or not, this event set many on path to seek out and understand things paranormal

    63 years ago this article appeared:
    Name:  RoswellDailyReco&#114.jpg
Views: 9898
Size:  49.0 KB

    And world went nuts
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 8th July 2010 at 09:19. Reason: Thread title editing

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    Default Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Hi, Folks:

    Here's more from my files.

    This image was said to be an original of the crashed craft (the site where the bodies were found).

    Caveat: I do NOT know anything about this photo, and have not found it elsewhere. I am NOT claiming this is the actual craft. I present it here for interest.

    Edit: I've just added the photo of the actual crash site for comparison. I HAD NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE. I've just had an epiphany (live, writing this post on the Avalon Forum)... I do now think this photo is genuine. Compare the hillside in the background, bearing in mind that the angle will be slightly different. All opinions welcome.





    Here's some wreckage - with a similar caveat. I do NOT know what this actually is. (It may be unconnected with Roswell, and may not be a crashed disk at all.)




    Here's an intriguing video - which some of you may have seen before. If this is a fake (which it might be), it's very well done.

    http://projectavalon.net/Roswell_ret...ull_length.mov

    Do watch this. I'm not convinced that this is not real.

    The original audio of the radio news report:

    http://projectavalon.net/Roswell_ori...adio_audio.wav

    Two well-known images of General Roger Ramey with Jesse Marcel at the July 1947 press conference:



    Some of you may not know that the telegram clearly shown in General Ramey's left hand was enhanced using 21st century software. The result is open to subjective interpretation, of course, but what has been extracted is interesting:



    (The original (large image) is here)

    http://projectavalon.net/Roswell_Ram...ged_600dpi.jpg

    For discussion of the telegram enhancement, click here:

    http://roswellproof.com/Reconstruct.html

    The enhancement:




    Enjoy

    I'm always struck by the tension in Jesse Marcel's face... the eyes of a good man who has been ordered to lie.

    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 8th July 2010 at 09:18.

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Thanks for the info Bill. I must say the Video is very convincing, it sent shivers down my spine and this is not something that I have seen anywhere before as with your first image. I need to put my UFO researchers hat back on again and start digging [it's been a while]........
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 8th July 2010 at 09:18. Reason: amended thread title
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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Quote Posted by Lyricus (here)
    Thanks for the info Bill. I must say the Video is very convincing, it sent shivers down my spine and this is not something that I have seen anywhere before as with your first image. I need to put my UFO researchers hat back on again and start digging [it's been a while]........
    Look at the comparison of the hillside of the crash site photo.... I'm writing this reply three minutes after I put them side by side for the first time. Wow. I took the liberty of changing the thread title to reflect the potential importance of this.

    Suitably encouraged, I also enlarged the movie, and corrected the aspect ratio:

    http://projectavalon.net/Roswell_ret...ull_length.mov

    If it's faked, it's really VERY well done. This has been discussed elsewhere, though not many folk know about it. Anyone who knows more than I do, please do comment.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 8th July 2010 at 09:23.

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Thank you Bill! This footage of the Roswell accident looks very convincing, as the body language of several people is really urgent in a way that it's not likely them being actors. It's still possible, of course, that this is staged and done by actors, but I cannot grasp with what purpose, as it adds up to conspiracy theories, something "they" would'nt support, I presume? But who knows in what ways the mind works, as it's very difficult to read other person's life scenario and life purpose, specially if your life depends on contracts within control systems.

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Keep it going

    Photo comparison is quite convincing, though of course the question what is it that on the photo remains ...
    The movie is interesting, cannot spot any telltale signs of "setup", though some experts should plow through are the military uniforms and all, if it fits with what was used in 1947. The cameraman movement is quite unusual, operators tended to stay stationary- no autofocus you see? But guess the circumstances allow for breakin' some rules. Other oddity is way the "Doctor" bends to reach "body", kinda stiff, but hell, if that is real, those guys had pure adrenaline in the veins, and no time to care for details
    All in all interesting food for thought, fitting the occasion
    Thanks Bill!

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Quote Posted by SaiCO (here)
    Photo comparison is quite convincing, though of course the question what is it that on the photo remains ...
    I'm as sure as I can be that it's the same location. I'd say the old photo was taken slightly to the left of the viewpoint of the modern one. But the topography matches like a fingerprint.

    It MIGHT be a tent or awning of some kind covering an area where the actual object was or had been - but the surface appears very taut and solid, like an upturned boat.

    It's been consistently reported that the craft was not a circular disk. It was stated by one witness that the B-29 “Up an’ Atom” flew a "teardrop shaped craft" out of RAAF in November 1947. And Col. Walter Haut, the public information officer at the Roswell Army Air Field (RAAF), after he was shown it in a hangar, described it in a 2002 sealed affidavit before he died in 2005:

    Quote It was approx. 12 to 15 feet in length, not quite as wide, about 6 feet high, and more of an egg shape. Lighting was poor, but its surface did appear metallic. No windows, portholes, wings, tail section, or landing gear were visible.
    That fits the object in the photo.


    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 8th July 2010 at 11:57.

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    This video has an interesting rendition of the crash site that corelates to your photos. Also the EBE on your video kinda reminded me of the Santilli Autopsy EBE. The lower half anyway.

    UFO TECHNOLOGY FROM ROSWELL 1947

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFdlwXw9tX0

    Roswell Alien Autopsy..Sorry folks not for the sqeamish!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzmmlaZ9b9I

    God forgive man for they know not what they do.

    I have also attached a possible artist's impression of the recovered craft

    Peace to all.
    Attached Images  
    Last edited by Studeo; 8th July 2010 at 12:16. Reason: Added pic

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    It seems to me that if someone was going to go through all of the trouble of Producing a genuine 'fake' or 'hoax' that they would not create such an amateur level film. I mean, with the lighting and such. It may add a more 'realistic' quality, but not THAT much. There were more than definately people there filming and taking notes. The funny thing about film and photos is that there can always be a claim made about it being a fake, especially with regards to photos/films of UFOs/EBEs Etc... Films and photos will stand up in court of law, but not in a court of public opinion. anyways... Looks real to me!!!

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Look at the comparison of the hillside of the crash site photo.... I'm writing this reply three minutes after I put them side by side for the first time. Wow. I took the liberty of changing the thread title to reflect the potential importance of this.

    Suitably encouraged, I also enlarged the movie, and corrected the aspect ratio:

    http://projectavalon.net/Roswell_ret...ull_length.mov

    If it's faked, it's really VERY well done. This has been discussed elsewhere, though not many folk know about it. Anyone who knows more than I do, please do comment.
    I don't think that anything could convince me that the video is somehow faked. It is definitely old footage, and what strikes me the most is that the 'ET' looks just like the being from the famous Alien autopsy video, and I've never been convinced that that one was faked either.

    Wow, there must be someone here good with video analysis. I was just going frame by frame in this video, and noticing the details of this 'ET'. look at the shape of it's body, the head, what appears to be an open mouth, the right leg looks badly damaged at the knee, and above the knee there is a large black spot that appears to be a hole in the leg. Look at the crotch area, the shape of the hips, the bloated abdomen, and the feet and hands.
    Then go back and look at the 'Alien Autopsy' footage. It appears to be the very same body. Actually, I'd be willing to bet anything that this is the same exact 'corpse' or dummy, whatever we are seeing.
    Last edited by Solphilos; 8th July 2010 at 16:27.
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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Bill, do you have access to this film? Or is it just this file?

    I'm not an expert on film wear and tear, but I've not ever seen half a frame blanked out before. Cigarette burns and fading, sure, but nothing like this.

    Just curious.

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    The alien in the autopsy vid and the retrieval vid to me look like the identical type of body.
    I feel we are looking at:
    2 real real aliens of the same species with the same leg damage.
    or
    2 fakes done by the same people to look almost identical/same fake used for both vids.
    or
    its the same alien in both vids and its real.
    I believe the alien autopsy was proven fake but this could be a cover.

    similarity:
    -Both palms facing up/feet turned out
    -arms appear the same length (both right hands end at the beginning of leg damage) (notice autopsy arms are more at an angle)
    -The 6 fingers and the shape of the toes/feet are the same. (2nd digit seems to be longer)
    -The facial features look the same.
    -The damage to the right leg from just below the right knee up to the inner thigh.. appears to be the same down to the ripped flesh pattern.

    the differences:
    - slightly different leg shape lines, the retrieval body seemed slightly smaller in proportion.

    As far as i can tell these are the same fake/real bodies in these vids or there made to seem this way. the leg damage being a sign to me of a fake/look alike on one end.


    maybe they all have a navigation system strapped to that leg and when they go down the nav system just blows up.

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    -----------------

    The Alien Autopsy film was 'recreated'. As best I understand, Ray Santilli, who produced the infamous film, still states that the original film stock was damaged beyond usability and so Santilli decided to re-create it as authentically as possible from the images and procedures he could make out in the original.

    So [he states] it was a dramatic reconstruction of the real thing. (Skeptics, at this point, will of course walk away. The original footage, if it exists, has never been handed over to researchers for analysis.)

    But: this is why samples of the actual original celluloid film stock - which Santilli said he DID supply - were legitimately identified by Kodak as dating to 1927, 1947 or 1967. So the film analysis was a neat fit.

    Here's what else I can say: I spoke at length with Ed Gehrman, whose brother John Kerry and I met in Nevada. We never met Ed himself, who lived in Northern CA.

    But Ed had SPOKEN several times on the phone to the original cameraman of the original [real] alien autopsy film, who was then a very old man living in Florida. Ed Gehrman never met him, but was 100% convinced he existed and was authentic.

    Ed said that 'Jack' (the cameraman's name) had stated that the ETs shown in the Autopsy film were NOT from Roswell, but were from an earlier (May 1947) crash in a location called Nogal Canyon, near Socorro, NM. John Gehrman took us right there and showed us the spot... 'Jack' had told Ed and John exactly where to go to find it.

    Sure enough, it was a weird site. A number of the walnut trees there had large branches which were clearly burned FROM ABOVE (not below) - as if an extremely hot source had charred them from immediately above. This is extremely hard to explain, and of course supports the crash story.

    And it was Jack, the cameraman, who told Ed and John where that site was, so that supports Jack's credibility.

    Sadly, Jack is no longer with us... very soon there will be no 1947 witnesses left at all.

    Quote Posted by Moemers (here)
    Bill, do you have access to this film? Or is it just this file?

    I'm not an expert on film wear and tear, but I've not ever seen half a frame blanked out before. Cigarette burns and fading, sure, but nothing like this.

    Just curious.
    The film I posted here was I THINK may have been part of the Alien Autopsy package (but I'm not too sure about that) - as I said earlier, it looks pretty real to me.

    I believe it's on YouTube somewhere, but I've never seen it re-sized (correctly) as I re-exported it this morning. That makes it rather easier to see what's happening.

    The ET on the stretcher DOES have a similar leg wound to the ET in the Autopsy film... but that would be expected if Santilli is telling the truth and the film is a dramatic, faithful reconstruction.

    Asking for trouble here......... but my tentative suggestion is that the short film is genuine, and that Santilli obtained that and saw that it did not need to be recreated.

    And the more I compare the crash site photos, the more I see that they fit like a glove and that this is the site, and the craft.

    The claimed crash site was only identified and then became quite well known after a bunch of good researchers started to pay attention in the 1980s.

    That's CLEARLY a genuine old photo. Why a photo of EXACTLY THE SAME PLACE? This location is totally in the middle of nowhere - an isolated rocky outcrop on the Brazel ranch, accessible only on horseback or ranch truck, among hundreds of square miles of nothing much.

    I feel sure we're looking at the 'teardrop' shaped Roswell craft. It's been on the net (obscure and with little attention paid to it) for a while.. and no-one (including me) paid any attention to the fingerprint-fit of the rocks in the background.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 8th July 2010 at 18:16.

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Nice timing Bill..........

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    As for "Autopsy" there were numerous problems cited by Korff in "The Roswell UFO crash"
    - Camera used- claimed to be a "Bell and Howell Filmo 70", which produces overexposed frames at the beginning and end of "shot". no such thing in the movie
    - Autopsies are filmed using overhead, stationary camera - reasons for that being need for broad view of the table. Such cameras are made for continuous filming to record every single action.
    - Cameraman often films clock on the wall, from which it's clear that "autopsy" taken about 2.5 hours. In case of human victims autopsy can take days in order to carefully analyze every single detail of evidence; should we believe that an alien would be chopped up in 150 minutes, nothing important, move along?
    - when doing human autopsies, there is a block placed beneath victim's back, to arch the body and allow better access to chest cavity; not such thing in the movie
    - During human autopsies removed organs are carefully placed in glass jars to avoid sample contamination, not on metal pans as in the movie
    - "Doctors" cannot hold surgical scissors in proper way (thumb and index finger vs thumb and middle finger and index used to "drive", as real doctors do)
    At least for me, his arguments make sense. You do not take one-of-the-kind-opportunity alien to be chopped up by what it seems to be veterinary school reject, without proper documentation needed in human cases

    Stan Friedman goes as far as suggest that subject of autopsy looks like a human with Turner's Syndrome

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Quote Posted by SaiCO (here)
    As for "Autopsy" there were numerous problems cited by Korff in "The Roswell UFO crash"
    - Camera used- claimed to be a "Bell and Howell Filmo 70", which produces overexposed frames at the beginning and end of "shot". no such thing in the movie
    - Autopsies are filmed using overhead, stationary camera - reasons for that being need for broad view of the table. Such cameras are made for continuous filming to record every single action.
    - Cameraman often films clock on the wall, from which it's clear that "autopsy" taken about 2.5 hours. In case of human victims autopsy can take days in order to carefully analyze every single detail of evidence; should we believe that an alien would be chopped up in 150 minutes, nothing important, move along?
    - when doing human autopsies, there is a block placed beneath victim's back, to arch the body and allow better access to chest cavity; not such thing in the movie
    - During human autopsies removed organs are carefully placed in glass jars to avoid sample contamination, not on metal pans as in the movie
    - "Doctors" cannot hold surgical scissors in proper way (thumb and index finger vs thumb and middle finger and index used to "drive", as real doctors do)
    At least for me, his arguments make sense. You do not take one-of-the-kind-opportunity alien to be chopped up by what it seems to be veterinary school reject, without proper documentation needed in human cases

    Stan Friedman goes as far as suggest that subject of autopsy looks like a human with Turner's Syndrome
    Hi there - your post may have overlapped with my #13 above. I take all your points. What we're looking at in the Santilli film does not seem to be an actual autopsy.

    The intriguing (and frustrating) thing is that there might have been a REAL film 'behind' it - on which the Santilli film was based - but the story now is 'contaminated'.

    This means that no respectable researcher will get involved in this all over again, as (just like the mainstream media) they try to protect their reputations. This happens in the alternative media, too.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 8th July 2010 at 18:34.

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    This is a silly question but, has a timeline ever been created for the documented crashes and sightings? At least the big ones i suppose.
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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    The comparison photos match as far as I can see. Bill can you date the old photo as far as when it became available?
    Perception is Everything

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Twining's Report: Mission Assessment of Recovered Lenticular Aerodyne Objects, 19 September 1947


    Quote "No one, without express permission from the President, may disseminate the information contained in this report or communicate it to any unauthorized person not possessing MAJIC SECURITY CLEARANCE."
    The White Hot report is a 19-page document, dated 19 September 1947 and signed by an appropriate cadre of military leaders on 24 September 1947. Several accounts of individual pilots were reported in 1947 with varying details that make each encounter a unique piece in a puzzle of phenomenon. In this particular year, sightings were reported "not only in the United States, but also in Sweden, Germany, Holland, Paraguay, Scandinavia, Greece, and by ships at sea." Studied by classified teams of experts, many interesting and provocative details were recorded in this report of unidentifiable crash remains.
    The document is broken down into various sections that address concerns specifically: Preliminary Intelligence Estimate, Technical Evaluation, Scientific Probabilities, Political Considerations, and National Security Structure. In the preliminary estimate, experts of the AMC and ONR speculate that "the unidentified lenticular-shaped aerodyne…lacking conventional wing, fuselage, nacelle, control, and fuel systems" is not only foreign to United States technology, but is also unlikely to be of Russian origin, or for that matter, unlikely to have been designed to operate within the earth's atmosphere. Several bodies were discovered along with the material of the crash, their existence and death just as mysterious as the cause of the crash itself. More interesting than these basic facts is the evidence that suggests "a symbionic relationship between operator and the functions of the aerodyne's operation."

    This particular leaked governmental document has a plethora of factual information linked to the retrieval and appraisal of the evidence collected from the recovered exhibits that "AMC, ASP, NEAP, ACE, ONR, NACKA, JED, RAND, USAF, SAG, and MIT, are deemed extraterrestrial in nature." The White Hot report not only covers the factual evidence of the retrieval, but also sheds light on a number of conceptual concerns surrounding politics, National Security, nuclear weaponry, and the reasons behind keeping knowledge of this nature out of the public's grasp indefinitely.

    It concludes, for the well being of the public, of course, and the protection of national security, that "the US must be perceived as being the top of the heap, and every effort must be made to insure that there is, and never has been, a threat to the country."
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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Bill this thread is excellent!! OMG! Them photos and the video are are unbelievable. I've watched the video quite a few times now and I find it very difficult to believe that that is fake footage.
    I have never seen any of this info before. Thankyou so much for posting these for us all to see.x

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