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Thread: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

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    Portugal Avalon Retired Member
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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    For those who like ufo pictures. Explore the site

    http://www.ufocasebook.com/bestufopictures.html

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Kenneth Arnold saucers, funny connection here:
    American:

    German:

    One of the things that make you wonder
    (or maybe I just read too much Farrell)

    EDIT :: Top Image, american- YB-35 during conversion to YB-49, image courtesy of US Air Force, taken from this Wiki page. Officially flown in October 1947.
    German is "Horten Ho 229"
    Last edited by Luke; 21st July 2010 at 07:09. Reason: Added photo information, source

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Holy cow Bill you've been a busy boy!

    Super effort on the detective work there, The revelation you had with the two photo's may well be the most important Roswell related news probably in its entire history. New stuff creeps out all the time i know, but most of it is lies, conjecture orthe reasearcher not doing his homework properly. This, however, has all the hallmarks of a serious peice of evidence, not least because its almost ratified.

    Keep up the sterling work brother!

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    Avalon Member noxon medem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Quote Posted by Baelsfire (here)
    - Did anyone else notice these?
    I've highlighted them.. Are they humanoids, or cacti or something?
    The shape of them is uncanny if you think about it.
    - Two look like they are wearing some kind of helmets and are standing around
    as if surveying the scene and one looks like he is sitting or crouching under the
    rear end of the craft, reaching out. And the final shape struck me as that of a
    humanoid climbing out from under the front of the craft ..
    ...
    To view the Figures in question:
    - click on doublearrow on top, right after name,"Baelsfire", in quote-box.
    ( Problem here uploading pictures at the moment )
    ...

    An immediate suggestion:

    ( click on any image for viewer )

    Name:  Alian-extreme,-As.jpg
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    Name:  Alian3,-Asbestos-&#.jpg
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    These are pictures of Asbestos-suits from 1940, heatresistant,
    and probably not the ones used in the old Roswell UFO picture.
    Just for illustration.
    ...

    If the old picture show an early surveyteam then they would probably
    wear some type of protection suits, and that together with the blur
    and unfocused image could explain for the strange figures there.
    ..

    :-)

    If you are going to the sunny, hot desert,
    Click image for larger version

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    Do not wear a black suit like this one ..

    .
    Last edited by noxon medem; 24th July 2010 at 02:40.

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    as a refresher, here's a link to one of the best roswell documentaries I've seen.
    shot in '95, this channel 4 film has all the players recounting this fantastic story.
    for me, the testimony of master sergeant kaufmann is what really puts this over the top, plus his confidential vehicle sketches
    that closely resemble bill's rediscovered ufo image and posted description.
    ray santilli's alien autopsy was late breaking news at the time of this piece and it's featured towards the end, in part and it's entirety after the credits.
    it's interesting to see him, in very convincing fashion, confirm that the autopsy footage was '100 percent authentic.' {all righty then.}

    unfortunately, the video file's audio is off, but it's the best free viewing available.
    it works great in the background as you can go about your daily tasks.

    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-roswell-incident/

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Quote Posted by jimmer (here)
    unfortunately, the video file's audio is off, but it's the best free viewing available.
    it works great in the background as you can go about your daily tasks.

    http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-roswell-incident/
    Thanks for the prompt! The video is here, with full audio:

    http://projectavalon.net/The_Roswell_Incident_1995.mp4
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 24th July 2010 at 10:27.

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    noxon medem , great photos and a sensible suggestion! It would explain the unusual proportions of the bodies (which reminded me of "clay men") and wash away the possibility of them being cacti. Which i said just to cover my ass anyway lol.

    Of course, this would lead to the re-evaluation of the crafts spatial dimensions... something like 15 x 40 feet? Assuming the suited peoples are all ~5-6 foot, do others think that's accurate?

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan
    Thanks for the prompt! I found the video here as a torrent (downloading now):

    http://bitsnoop.com/the-roswell-inci...-q1341826.html
    Thanks for the torrent link Bill, handy with a connection bandwidth that i have. Also can then adjust any audio lag with VLC media player :-D
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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Amazing. Where was the photo of these American "flying wings" taken? Nice "coincidence" that there are 9 of them. Isn't that the same number of crafts Kenneth Arnold claimed to have seen? Hmm....
    Gary Val Tenuta
    Author of THE EZEKIEL CODE (a novel)
    "2012 is coming...Or is it?" The clock is ticking...The code must be deciphered...

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Couple of screen captures from that new "alien retrieval" footage. Who knows, maybe someone will recognize and identify these two men.



    And here's the alleged "alien" for anyone who wants to take a good long gander at it for comparison to the Santilli alien.
    Gary Val Tenuta
    Author of THE EZEKIEL CODE (a novel)
    "2012 is coming...Or is it?" The clock is ticking...The code must be deciphered...

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Quote Posted by Code9 (here)
    Amazing. Where was the photo of these American "flying wings" taken? Nice "coincidence" that there are 9 of them. Isn't that the same number of crafts Kenneth Arnold claimed to have seen? Hmm....
    Those are YB-35 during conversion to YB-49, image courtesy of US Air Force, taken from this Wiki page. Officially flown in October 1947.
    German is "Horten Ho 229"
    Sorry I did not included that in original post

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    while the flying wing crafts (american and german) could be interpreted as similar to the roswell craft description,
    compare those to the 'sketch' in the 'roswell incident' documentary. this craft sketch is even more extreme
    looking with it's upturned wing tips and teardrop-like body form. maybe someone could do a clean screen grab of the sketch
    for further examination. it's on screen for 2-3 secs.

    big bottom line, from the documentary, the alien bodies reported by mast. sergeant kaufmann and others, could not have come from any earthbound craft or theory.

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Quote Posted by SaiCO (here)
    Those are YB-35 during conversion to YB-49, image courtesy of US Air Force, taken from this Wiki page. Officially flown in October 1947.
    German is "Horten Ho 229"
    Sorry I did not included that in original post
    Hmm... 4 months after K. Arnold's sighting. Still, it is curious timing.
    Gary Val Tenuta
    Author of THE EZEKIEL CODE (a novel)
    "2012 is coming...Or is it?" The clock is ticking...The code must be deciphered...

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    -----------

    Folks, the torrent I published earlier was the wrong documentary. Sincere apologies.

    The correct (1995) one is here - with full audio. Highly recommended: one of the definitive Roswell documentaries.

    It contains detailed first-hand testimony from witnesses, very valuable for researchers - and also lays out the story in very clear terms for those who are unfamiliar with it. Many of these witnesses are now very elderly, or no longer alive.

    http://projectavalon.net/The_Roswell_Incident_1995.mp4

    Frank Kaufmann's testimony starts at 18:55. At 21:19, the crash site is shown. After that, there are sketches of the craft he says he saw personally.

    I have to say that watching Frank Kaufmann very closely several times in this clip (the first time I've seen him interviewed), he doesn't look to me like a man who is lying. That doesn't mean that he isn't! But to me, he absolutely doesn't look like it. He DID convince Randle and Schmitt (see below) for a long while.








    Frank Kaufmann's testimony has now been DISCOUNTED by Randle, Carey and Schmitt. They state that he changed his story several times and after his death it was apparently discovered that he had faked some documents.

    But the photo is clearly the site that Kaufmann claimed.



    There are two possibilities:
    1. It is real, and Kaufmann was telling the truth.
    2. The photo was faked by Kaufmann to promote his story. (Some people have pointed out that what is depicted looks like some kind of a model.)

    If the latter is true, then this claimed provenance [below] of the photo needs explaining:

    http://aliensthetruth.com/UFO.php?view=1&ID=24

    The full citation is this:

    **********

    Quote Dear Mr. Mercieca

    [Bill Ryan note: this is John Mercieca from MUFOR (Malta UFO Research), cc?d here.]

    I had the unique opportunity to take pictures of this old black & white original in September 1994 after a succession of meetings with an ex-military American gentleman. The American who wishes only to be known as (D.S.) was according to himself in service with the army air force based at Muroc army airforce base, California in 1947. He claims the wreckage of the craft was flown out to three separate American military establishments in the days following the crash. He says these were : Sandia Laboratories, New Mexico; Wright Field, Ohio; and Carswell Army Airforce base, Texas.

    He claims he was given the photo in 1952 by a man who he later befriended and was present at the crash site.

    When I first took possession of this photograph my initial intention was to prove that the photo was authentic, however, those with whom I have spoken have all reached the same conclusion which is: with the photograph being second generation, and with no original negatives available, it is virtually impossible to either confirm or deny its authenticity. The American outrightly refuses to allow the original to leave his possession in fear of it not being returned. As to whether I believe this photograph is genuine or not, all I can say is that it does appear to show a real event, i.e. real craft, real people, real terrain, etc. I believe the images depicted in the photograph represent an event that is unfolding at the time the photo was taken. During September, 1994, I did actually handle the original and did appear to be years old, just how old I cannot say. However, I only have the American's word that it is actually the Roswell crash, having said that he is 73 years old and seems sincere.

    I hope this has been of some assistance. If you have any further queries or opinions concerning the photo, I will be most interested.

    (N.R.H.)
    I'm currently trying to contact John Mercieca.

    Question: why would a faker send a photo to Malta UFO Research - and not to MUFON for the widest publicity? This photo was overlooked for years - and Kaufmann is now dead.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 24th July 2010 at 11:26.

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    this crash site photo story gets more dense and interesting.
    thanks bill for the screen grabs and further research.
    the documentary posting has excellent clarity.
    hopes that john mercieca can shed some new light.

    can anyone provide specifics of kaufmann's story changes?
    here's an accounting I found.

    http://www.roswellfiles.com/Witnesses/Kaufmann.htm

    who would have or could have 'staged' such a large scale accident site hoax?
    back then, there was no photoshop.
    antiquated retouching efforts are easily detected nowadays.
    and a a full scale onsite setup = $$$$, for a fuzzy image?

    if the photo was a 'forced perspective' with the figures and craft a smaller scale,
    could the photographic composite image keep the background in a relative same sharpness?
    would someone analyze the image with this in mind.
    Last edited by jimmer; 24th July 2010 at 16:51.

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    - Here some constructive confusion, if nothing else than to sort out and clear up an underlying one ..

    This has some relevance to the investigation of the july 1947 Roswell-crash, and possible retrieval of
    Space-vehicles and Alien beings. The UFO(s) are called different names: Saucer, Disk, Pod and Missile.
    There was supposedly a UFO-crash, or shooting down, in the same area, close to Roswell, in may of 1947.
    ..
    But Roswell apparantly was not the start of U.S. militarys experience and involvement with UFOs and ETs.
    There is some mentioning of a 1942 incident, or more, and here is something about that:
    ..
    (please excuse the producer for the high volume of the music vs. comments)



    - In the sky over Los Angeles 25. - 26. february 1942
    ..
    If this is real ? Who knows. Maybe they staged something spectacular to hype up patriotism,
    and scare people into some support and sacrifice to entering the 2. world war at that time.
    (Pearl Harbour Dec.7 1941, U.S. war on Japan declared Dec.8. First troops in Europe Jan.26 1942)
    Or maybe this UFO showed up because U.S. joined the war, and they fired upon it, unsuccessfully.

    Anyway we deal with at least three different stories of the U.S military and UFOs from that timeperiod.
    Some of the stories and evidence could get mixed up. We must try to separate, and get the "facts" straight.
    - It seems like the july '47 Roswell incident has the most spoken witnesses and solid documentation,
    and maybe it's also the object of most speculation, confusion and myth.
    ..

    (- to be continued..)
    Last edited by noxon medem; 7th August 2010 at 03:19.

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Hi all, I posted this graphic earlier in this thread and the drawing that Bill provided is exactly the same. I'm not saying it's tru or not, just that it is obviously is rendered from the same drawing.

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    I just took another look at the frank kaufmann portion of the documentary.
    it struck me that a body language expert may be able to shed some light as to kaufmann's credibility.
    I don't know that this has been done before. anyone here with that expertise? know any one?
    if so, go to the 22:07 mark and check out his physical demeanor.
    is he telling the truth? is he fabricating? is he very comfortable with what he says?
    what can you see that we don't?

    and (not to be prickish) what's your or yours professional credibility?
    Last edited by jimmer; 27th July 2010 at 22:53.

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    In the first moments of the video does that not look like a guys hand going in front of the screen. The color is there and it look like his palm.

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    Quote Posted by tpmputterman (here)
    In the first moments of the video does that not look like a guys hand going in front of the screen. The color is there and it look like his palm.
    What video do you refer to ?

    There are many in this thread, and I guess you point to the Alian Retrieval film from Bills archive, post # 2 on thread.
    In that case I agree with you. The film has been transfered to video at some point, and if that is done off a screen,
    with a videocamera, then some of the coluored "damage" obscuring the clear view could be explained by someone
    putting a hand or some object on front of the camara-lens at critical moments. A speculation, but a valid one.

    If you wonder about some other video on thread please specify, for example by post # (number).
    All well. NM.
    ...
    Last edited by noxon medem; 29th July 2010 at 21:47.

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    Default Re: Possible original photo of the Roswell craft

    So, is the general consensus that these are time traveling humans from our future?

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