Coming to terms with Ascension religion and David Wilcock hysteria

[araucaria]

I have posted a couple of times on messianism, in particular with reference to DW.

Messianism involves a messianic figure, and a messianic end-point scenario.

The messianic figure is someone outside of yourself who is your indispensable intermediary to getting where you want to be. As such, he expresses separation from the oneness that you find within.

The messianic end-point scenario deals in catastrophism rather than gradualism. Take disclosure: Duncan O says disclosure is already a done deal for many people - the gradualist approach; whereas DW sees it as some defining moment when Joe Six-pack is stirred off his couch to switch off the TV. (Notice how 911 was a catastrophic event that moved everyone to go switch on the TV!)

Most ‘catastrophic’ situations are better seen from a gradualist standpoint. If you are doing a 100 meter race and only have 100 meters in the tank, the last 20 are going to get gradually slower and slower, and you may never even finish. If you view the race as a whole 150-meter acceleration-deceleration process involving a number of strides, with an assessment point along the way, then you stand a chance of winning.

I tuned into the DW thread because of its relevance to the Fulford lawsuit, to be seen, again, not as a single world-changing event but as a stepping-stone in the direction we want to go, provided we make the most of it. It is a stepping-stone even in money terms since it involves a few trillion, which is at once a mind-boggling sum compared with our national economies, and, I gather, peanuts compared to the actual overall gold situation.

A stepping-stone is by definition an ambiguous thing, one that is cause for both hope and fear. Fear, because in midstream, it may look nearly as wet as the water passing around and possibly over it. Hope because it can bring you one step closer to dry land.

The DW business is also ambiguous, as a distraction from this lawsuit stepping-stone, but also as a great attractor to make people aware of it. Let’s stay focused on that immediate goal.

[markpierre]

Serenity, I think I need to say that I admire the way you trust yourself enough to stick your neck out and express what you see.

I think your real point to me is that the real truth is more important than loyalty and revolutions and revelations and prognostications and sentiments and positionality and on and on. Human consciousness is only beginning to grasp the significance in the idea of truth. It's not in the culture, it's not in the schools. It's not at home. It's not in the churches. That's weird. We just wallow mostly still, in the ideas and tricks we've learned to survive here. The sins of the fathers or whatever, and we don't even know yet how to honestly convey what it is that we're learning now. We get our way primarily through manipulation and deceit however subtle. Even our love is tainted. My housemate says, "close the screen door, the mosquitoes are streaming in". No they're not. But she got me to close the door when SHE should have closed the door. And I love her! And there's no truth in it. I resent it!

Just making a point there. That it's insidious.

David's a guy, he's got a lot on his plate, he lives in a highly stressful secular/spiritual /spacial/dimensional world which is gotta be tough. A couple of them aren't real at all. And it's true, notoriety is useful for one single thing that I can find, and that's to focus attention on something, on whatever scale.
Well that's working alright.
But personally, notoriety f's you up. Because it's a fraud that it's about the thing that has it. It's not fun. It's not nurturing to someone who probably needs any amount of stillness. I know what that's like.

I wouldn't look to another human being for confidence in anything. But that's okay, because all of our idols will have to fall anyway. We're still hugely handicapped with our relative degrees of awareness, and what the hell are we supposed to do? How are we supposed to know?
Who is there left to ask? Well, ourselves finally. But sometimes we're wrong, and sometimes on purpose. It sucks.

But partly what we do that makes things change is begin to risk something for truth's sake. It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong, you do the truthful thing. That's more to do with 'truth' than any of the rest of it. There are too many different stories out there to pick one. Don't bother. Get true yourself.

If they say "question everything", do they really mean "except me", or are they awake enough to include themselves, and so they question themselves as well. That's good. And there again, I'm deferring to someone else if I take on any advice at all.
That's not what I'm supposed to be doing.
I 'trust' people to behave like humans and it helps me to not murder myself if I learn that I'm a dick-head sometimes.

I'm sure David believes a lot of things that aren't true, and so do I. But I have to represent what I 'believe' to be the truth at least until the next wave of whatever comes along and prunes me back again. I try not to get too far afield of experience, but if you think you know you have to stick it out there so the blade can reach it.
'Represent' doesn't include any mandate to talk about it by the way. But some guys are driven to, and so it gets done. Everybody wins and everybody learns discernment eventually.

It's about learning to use our minds in an entirely different way. We don't just 'click' - now we're in the fifth dimension. I'm only just beginning to appreciate the sort of world I'd create if it's up to me, because I'm only just getting to know myself. That skin of 'unacceptable' is being shed and I think it's because I'm honest with myself now. Well, certainly more than before.

The part of human consciousness that needs to be something, anything at all, uses the tools it was given to express what that is. That may include any manner of manifesting dramatic events, or possibly dramatization of events. Oh really? Who does that? Who me?
But David's fulfilling his role if he only just gets people to redefine their roles and relationship with the world and begin to want something at least a little bit 'truer'. We're not talking about the world, we're talking about those 'with ears to hear'. Well, that would probably be exclusive to guys who are listening. Probably no one else.
I don't know, I just enjoy him. I'm not really critiquing what he says. I can't make a picture to go along with it, so it remains somewhat abstract. Experience is never anything like how it's described.

So really, how perfect does integrity have to be in order to qualify as integrity? It has to be absolutely perfect to transcend the kind of cause and effect that we don't like. We're just beginning to think 'hey, this isn't okay'. Cleaning up your Karma
only means your cause and effect have become instantaneous. To the degree that you can say, 'Whow, I might not like to have that right back in my face', before it is.
It is important. It is a big deal.

Just continue to trust yourself because what I make of you, I think that you'd rather be wrong about the whole thing than right. But you can't s#it yourself, and that's what I appreciate. And because of that you can't avoid raising your concern. You're concerned about everybody and it'd be too weird if that excluded David. So I think you were misunderstood. David couldn't fault you. You don't have to defend yourself from that. It's a bit more questionable to me that anyone would ask you to. But people don't really read each other all that well in these scenarios, do they.

Sorry, I just had to say all that to thank you for this thread. Didn't mean to blather on. It could be really productive here if people can practice the kind of honesty we need to develop to finish this project.


And Harry Stanton makes a very unconvincing Apostle Paul. See??? There's just something missing. I can't help but point it out.

[joedjemal]

When I was a kid of 7 or so I noticed that there were some odd things going on in the world that nobody could explain to me in any convincing way. So I started looking for more of these odd events and started trying to understand them. I started with religion. My mother was catholic and my father muslim so I started with Islam. It became obvious pretty quickly that most of it was a moral code with a lot of ritual thrown in. Nothing i learned there seemed to explain what I was experiencing and then I moved back to the UK to go to school and i went to my mother's religion. I found much the same thing, but even more rigid with a lot of control thrown in and I found out that asking questions about the odd side of the world was forbidden as was exploring it. So I moved on, charismatic Christianity, Wicca, Buddhism... All of them didn't give me any truly satisfactory answers, they were all about fixing your mind in a certain way so I became intensely distrustful of all organised religion and ritual. Then I tried physics. Went to do a degree got fascinated with quantum mechanics for a while but it too had flavours of religion. Investigating the very things I was trying to explain was just as forbidden as it had been in the religions. Then I came down with my first AIDS defining illness, was diagnosed with HIV and dealing with what I was told was imminent death became my first priority but then something amazing happened. I discovered synchronicity and my whole life became intensely magical.

I learned a long time ago that no information source is completely reliable. Every source is tainted by the motives or beliefs of it's originator. Now that's not to say that there's no valuable information in those sources, just that it's filtered through the perceptions and needs of the one presenting it. So for me for any information to be of value it has to be backed up either by personal experience or there have to be multiple sources saying the same thing independantly and the information has to have consistency. It has to fit into the overall picture somehow. Now I've listened to a great deal of what David Wilcock has to say and much of it fits the picture that I've been putting together for myself although he does have a tendency to hyperbole and excessive extrapolation without evidence. I also dislike his apparent love of celebrity but that's my issue not his. I know aliens (or multidimensional beings) are real because they've interacted with me (always without permission much to my annoyance) but i have no idea who or what they are and have seen absolutely no convincing evidence that anyone else does either. They examined myself and some friends after we had a breakthrough and shared minds briefly so they're obviously interested in that and the fact that they have been disabling nuclear weapons gives me some measure of hope that they might prevent a nuclear war. The thing that bothered me most was that they showed no inclination to a two sided conversation. They showed up, got the information they wanted and left. During the examination i briefly seemed to be mentally connected to some sort of psychic internet that felt part machine and part living but I didn't know how to navigate it. I watched my friends forget the whole incident in front of my eyes.

That is the only information I have about them that I trust and that was filtered through my own perceptions.

If David is to present information that is important to us all then he must treat it with caution. Much of the time he seems to come up with incredibly elaborate confabulations based on the flimsiest evidence. I went from finding him a useful source of information to distrusting everything he had to say because it was beginning to look like his need for celebrity and adoration was overcoming the work and drowning it in noise. The radio interview with Kerry appalled me. I've been on the receiving end of the dramas of manipulative people many times and there's a flavour to it. This had that flavour so I reacted with a certain amount of scorn. I'm pretty sure that this gold stuff is more mind control cr*p. The main question for me is whether David is aware of that. If he is deliberately promoting disinformation to increase his fame then he is most definitely no longer a reliable source the same is true if his internal filters have become so warped by his need for celebrity that he examines the information he presents with less care than he should.

My heart chakra seems quite functional to me, a little less credulousness and a little more skepticism on the part of all of us would probably advance our cause a great deal more than personality cults.


"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy" monty python

[NeverMind]

Posted by Unified Serenity (here)
In the middle of it, I found myself laughing and it did not make sense.

Laughter is a perfectly "normal" expression of extreme tension, and a vent for it.
I am appalled that the people around you didn't realise that.
(I know this is not the point of the post, but I just had to say it.)

Not to get off topic here too much but there is more to Saul and "Jesus" then is being told/preached by mainstream religion IMHO.....

The main and perhaps ONLY point that even mainstream religion teaches, however, is clear: Jesus Christ, and the religion he founded -- or rather, the civilisational principles that he gave expression to and validated -- stands for: unconditional love, unconditional forgiveness, and the end of despair and hopelessness.

That's all we need to know, really.

[Elixer]

To me this issue goes to what has been mentioned 'Cult of Personality'.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice ... point is... can't get fooled again. [G.W. Bush].

I've become very careful about respecting/believing/adhering-to any one particular person with a message, exactly because there is no way to tell whether they are genuine and sincere.
I judge the personal value of the information.

What we see happening over and over again, is people getting on someone's bandwagon, singing their praises and lashing out at anyone who is not singing along.
Then it turns out their new-found guru is a fraud, wrong, or simply in disagreement with another dearly held belief system, they get off the bandwagon, jump right onto another and are now lashing out at anyone that sings the praises of their former hero.
I've seen it here with people just loving someone unquestioningly a year ago. Always following his posts with thanks and praise. Now they've apparently turned around and are openly attacking him.

I would say it is hypocritical, were it not for the many associations with that word, but it literally is hypo-critical, 'hypo' meaning less than, or below.
To me it is ridiculous to attack someone for being critical of someone else, no matter how they word it.
If you don't like it, don't engage and let it go. If it makes you feel any better, you can think yourself better than them for not getting in the mud with them.
(But don't say it out loud because that would invalidate your very position...which might also be deemed hypocritical in terms of personal integrity...)

It has also been said many times 'take what resonates, leave the rest'. That is sound policy, I reckon.

If you feel the need to defend DW or anyone, against critisicm brought by another, that might tell you something about yourself. It is really you defending your own belief system. Possibly.
That is one of the craziest things happening on this planet: people fighting, killing and dying for what they believe. There is no way to be certain about just about anything. How can you even ponder going to war over it? It's the fallacy of fanatisicm. We have to realize that we cannot know for sure, that it is just belief. And even: in this world many things are possible to the point where even two conflicting view points might both be right (depending on the level you view them from). If someone opposes you, it doesn't mean they're wrong, or right. And so on.

I think it is in everyone's best interest to not get dragged into this emotional he-said-she-said thing, for all of us to learn that 'worshipping', 'adoring', 'loving' one person, doesn't mean you're right about it, even if it 'feels right'. Our emotions are often used against us and we should watch out for that. It is (also) a disinfo technique.

Following a Personality is 'soo old paradigm', that I really think we ought to rethink that situation. It is untennable in the dis-information age.

Allowing yourself to get dragged into a heated debate about some media icon's sincerity, like DW, NH, RCH, BF, BR, KC etc, drags the discussion down into the personal and the emotional.
It stops the information flow. People that do not want to get dragged into it, stop posting on the subject, even though they might have value to add.

So, it is in the interest of knowledge and information as well, to not get into heated debates about how someone's words have hurt your feelings, or conflict with your beliefs.

I see these things happening around Nassim Haramein for instance. There are those that think he is a fraud. (almost) Everytime a thread opens up around him, they get on and call 'fraud'.
The discussion then turns into offense-defense and the information Nassim brings is not discussed. I even called 'disinfo' a couple of times, for this reason.

If I am being attacked for a position I take, I will defend that position and if necessary, when I feel it is manipulative for instance, counter-attack. Mainly for purposes of balance. I don't go on and on about how I've been wronged, or how wrong my attacker is. That would not be balancing.

So, all though I do not like the fact that she seems to have chosen a warrior's path in this issue, I agree with Unified Serenity in her position against this Cult of Personality concept.
I think that is very important, there are lessons for many of us to be learnt in this area and I hope it can bring a higher level of discussion to this forum in general.

From another thread here on PA

I would be grateful if those with nothing constructive or helpful to say would remain silent.

We should have something like that on any thread, to ward off this mud-slinging.

[Referee]

It is in the Globalists writings especially those that deal with Save the Earth, global warming etc. to make a new religion to get rid of Christianity and The Muslim religion........A new age religion one you will pay your Carbon Taxes and VAT Taxes to.

A religion that might make you docile in the face of adversity?

[etm567]

Posted by mariposafe (here)
You have openly accused David of being a "crybaby". Your words not mine. These words give the lie to the claim you make in your patronizing, insincere message to Kerry about how you aren't judging David for the way he handles his emotions. If calling someone a crybaby isn't judgmental, then what is ?

You claim he was peeing his pants. Do you mind me asking how exactly you know this ? Is it an example of the "energy reading" you loudly boast of ?

Your talents as an energy reader don't appear to be very great to me. Whatever the veracity of the whole story, David was clearly NOT acting, he was genuinely scared for his life.

On the same topic - maybe you ought to hold a mirror up to your "energy reading" self. Were you to do so, you'd see that your energy is aggression. Pure, naked aggression. Not just here, but in the majority of the places you've been posting in the last 2 months. But of course you mask it all with claims of love and peace, and when someone dares to challenge you, you cry foul.

Thanks for the clarity. I've been standing back, not wanting to get into the mudfight again. Well said, from my point of view -- that is, just my cultish, mafioso, ripping to shreds and supposedly wishing-somebody-dead point of view!

[RMorgan]

Dear Serenity,

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you a million times!

Cheers,

Raf.

[Sync]

Posted by Unified Serenity (here)

Practicing the Law of Allowance can be a very empowering experience!

Yes, it can. And may I say I am very sorry for the pain caused in the name of the Messiah so wrongly by those who used it for their own gain. Please forgive me,

Thank you and much love,

Serenity

Thank you, but you are as responsible as we all are... in a Ho'oponopono sense.


But thank you. Power in forgiveness.

[taliesin]

Dear Serenity,

Firstly I would like to thank you for your courage in continuing to deal with this issue despite attack and projection. You seem to me to have a strong and passionate dedication to getting to the truth of a situation and I applaud you for that.

I withdrew from the other thread because I had seen enough to know for myself what the truth of the situation was. In writing my last post on that forum I considered very carefully what I wrote. I knew by posting DW’s reaction represented itself to me like he was peeing his pants and crying like a girl, that I would get some moral outrage, but I posted it anyway. It was not politically correct and was unacceptable. I completely accept that, I knew it at the time, it’s definitely my “stuff”. However it was an integrous thing for me to say at the time. I accept that about myself, that I will not think and feel things that are “permissable” all the time. I also posted that DW was processing his feelings in real time. As I was. For some, it is acceptable for David to express himself without judgement, but apparently not me. Luckily for me, in this instance, I don’t need the approval of others for how I feel, as I have that internally.

They were mirroring to themselves their real position. I could get into projections and shadow and mirrors but it is too long and entangled and I don’t have the time to get into it now. It is interesting that the whole he said she said thing completely over shadowed questioning the truth of his message and indeed the veracity of the death threats.

It reminds me of a talk I heard by one of the publishers of the Danish Cartoons. There is a genuine death threat against him so he was not publicised on the list of speakers and I feel very lucky to have heard him speak. To paraphrase his message, he said that in these politically correct times, we need to exercise the right not to be offended as opposed to the right to be offended. It was a very profound moment for me to hear that and I have pondered it since.

I still feel that the threats were not “real”, even more so now, and I am sorry that I have gotten drawn into this whole drama, it is not the best use of my thought time, and energy. I was interested to see the reactions to my words in a detached way as I know that people are just working out their stuff, whether in a conscious or unconscious way.

And the points that you raise about the messianic message are very relevant. I have been around long enough to realise that people love a leader, whether self appointed or elected, whether that leaders message is wholly false or true, or in between. And as you rightly point out, there is something here about the transposition of religious belief. The form may have changed i.e. it might be in the alternative arena and be from people who have disavowed institutionalised religion, but the substance is the same - moral outrage and self righteous indignation when those teachings or that leader is questioned. It is still “opium for the people”. When the supply is compromised people get upset.

Ram Dass made the point that the more vociferously a religion or faith is upheld, the more doubt actually fuelling those beliefs, and the shakier the ground those beliefs are built upon.

We humans project on our leaders, we are conditioned from an early age through mainstream religion and the educational system to do this. I feel in this instance this is what is happening with DW. He reflects the outsider, the person who’s beliefs are ridiculed in main stream society, the person who from his heart wants the best for the world, and most importantly is on a spiritual journey.

I felt it important to look at the evidence to decide whether or not I invested any of my time, energy and thought into the material that DW provides. From that inquiry I have seen failed prophecies, claiming to be the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce, Ra, whomever, books, tours, claims that we will all be saved by the men in the sky (just this time they wont be old with a big white beard), ascension, whatever. (Not that I don’t consider that there are other beings out there, or in different dimensions, however I have only ever experienced them with my eyes closed). And that whilst in the midst of an on air emtional meltdown, he had the presence of mind to promote his wares.

You can take the purest, cleanest water and if you pour it through a rusty pipe, you get rusty water.

They are theories, some of which have already been disproved as in the prophecies. He doesn’t appear to have any clear discernment functioning. And the most important thing in my view is that it distracts from the here and now, and what actually has to be done. Some faced with the enormity of the task at hand prefer to go into denial and project this responsibility on God or ETs or the afterlife. We have to clean this up ourselves.

I feel one of the most important processes to be engaged with in this time of revealing that we are all living through, is to hold the space within oneself. To allow all of the emotional reactions to take place, yet to still stand in one's power in a dignified and calm way.

I applaud your time effort and energy to this forum Serenity. I applaud your questioning of the information we are presented with and your dedication to the truth. You have a genuine concern for the people on this forum and even though it may be challenging for some, we are all truth seekers and that is why we are here.

Much love and blessings to all on our collective and individual journeys,

T x

[Belle]

Thank you for this thread, Unified Serenity.

I find it interesting that so many choose to look outside of themselves for a 'master' to follow when we hold all we need to guide us though this life inside. Seek and the answers will come...sometimes from another, sometimes through a life experience, the ways are many and varied. We attract those experiences we need for growth to ourselves naturally, without effort. And all the answers we need at that moment in time will be there.

It's not easy to take responsibility for our own path. How I would love to blame someone I may hold as 'master' or 'guru' at fault for my mistakes...but they are my mistakes, made so I could learn from them. The lessons can be difficult, but well worth it and seldom forgotten.

I must admit that I have difficulty understanding why people are struggling so hard to find their 'truth'. Perhaps they don't trust themselves enough or maybe it's their fear of making mistakes that lead them to find someone else to follow. I just don't know. It is apparent to me that by revealing the cracks in a leaders philosophy, people take it personally...like, "don't show me the incongruities in who or what I've chosen to follow; they have to be right because that makes me right."

By all means, follow someone or some philosophy if you feel you must, but please don't attack me if I don't find value in it.

Can we stop this need to put others down in order to feel better about ourselves? Life is not a competition. Different is just different...that does not make one 'better' and one 'worse'. Different is just different and that's okay.

[M6*]

Dear Viral Spiral,

KINDNESS is a hard thing to come by these days....or so it seems to me.
Thank you for helping me remember all those people who have been kind to me.
What precious gifts I have been given!

Sincerely, M6*

[Unified Serenity]

Thank you for going into this with me mark,

Yes, for me it's about honesty within and without. Are we asking ourselves, " am I so evolved that I am not really repeating patterns I thought I had left behind?" So many say they have left the need for a leader behind, and then display the very aspects of those who many deem unawake within our own community and we think we are not doing it because we outwardly say things like, "Oh he is just a good teacher" or "I just like his work and it's uplifting" then we see the reactions they have when something is questioned.

Most of us have searched for years, attended various spiritual groups / paths and it's very easy to fall under a "spell" of programming when listening to someone who has gained our trust. I do not mean to imply DW is teaching anything nefarious, because he's growing right along with us, but he really is no more evolved than most and probably less evolved than some here. I accept that he has good intentions until I see proof otherwise of deliberate manipulations. I think what we saw was possibly true emotion then realizing things were not so bad, but hey let's make use of this. I could be dead wrong in this, but it's how it truly appears to me. But, so what? Should that effect us? Well, if we cannot step back from what appears the near messianic gaze it feels some have towards DW, then I wonder how critical we are in our thinking. Like the whole 51% STO vs 49% STS and you will ascend. I mean, that just does not sit with me, because that sounds calculating. Our heart intention is either set to STO or STS. When we do recognize we are in an STS mode we stop it. We say, is this loving? Is this necessary? And then take appropriate action and rectify any issues within and how we affected those around us. You can't be half honest. Would you go to a Surgeon who was half good? I mean nothing is a guarantee, but would you hop on a table and say cut away doc, I have a 50/50 chance here on elective surgery? I hope you get my point. I look at actions vs words. I hate hypocrisy within myself and from my friends or family. And since I am truly of the belief we are all one, then I just hate hypocrisy period.

Gee.... I am meandering here, but you have me thinking Mark and that is why I started this thread. It's not so much about DW as it is about trading one idol for another. It's about following another verses finding the TRUTH within and it being based on facts not just wishy washy feelings. We are in a war energetically. We cannot sit back and expect anything to change just by wishful thinking. I do not mean go pick up a gun and kill the bastards who we perceive to be causing the problems. I mean we, you and me should be ... I NEED TO GET OFF MY ASS and do more! Talking in our groups and going to conferences recharges us, but nothing is changing in other areas. The changes we see are when people DO something like file a friggin lawsuit even if it's just to bring the issue to the sheeple to maybe wake up a few!

I used to attend the international messianic jewish conference in PA back in the 80's. It was an incredible week of learning, fellowship, singing, dancing beyond your wildest dreams. It was a powerful time in my life. But, what did it accomplish beyond recharging those who attended? I mean how did it at that moment change the world? It did not. It was not until those soldiers / light workers went back home and actually did something that the fruit was born from the efforts to learn and evolve. I am not involved in the MJAA anymore, but I would not trade one minute of that time because it helped me. I am who I am today because of those things, but the more I have grown, the more I have seen how we can get trapped in things. I just see some rather large traps within our community (Not just Avalon) but those who think they have left old paradigms behind. I may be a catalyst to realize that when I say things that really piss some off here, and it takes them out of their soft lovey cozy all is love and beautiful mode, they realize there is a reality and it's ok to be mad. It's ok to get pissed off even if I am the catalyst to see, that in reality we need balance and critical thinking.....

Ok, I am way off on a rabit trail. I apologize for going on and on... this is as much an exercise for me as any of us. Thanks for going down this road with me Mark and others. None of you are my enemy. I cannot learn, I cannot evolve if I cannot question and think.

Much love,

Serenity

Posted by markpierre (here)
Serenity, I think I need to say that I admire the way you trust yourself enough to stick your neck out and express what you see.

I think your real point to me is that the real truth is more important than loyalty and revolutions and revelations and prognostications and sentiments and positionality and on and on. Human consciousness is only beginning to grasp the significance in the idea of truth. It's not in the culture, it's not in the schools. It's not at home. It's not in the churches. That's weird. We just wallow mostly still, in the ideas and tricks we've learned to survive here. The sins of the fathers or whatever, and we don't even know yet how to honestly convey what it is that we're learning now. We get our way primarily through manipulation and deceit however subtle. Even our love is tainted. My housemate says, "close the screen door, the mosquitoes are streaming in". No they're not. But she got me to close the door when SHE should have closed the door. And I love her! And there's no truth in it. I resent it!

Just making a point there. That it's insidious.

David's a guy, he's got a lot on his plate, he lives in a highly stressful secular/spiritual /spacial/dimensional world which is gotta be tough. A couple of them aren't real at all. And it's true, notoriety is useful for one single thing that I can find, and that's to focus attention on something, on whatever scale.
Well that's working alright.
But personally, notoriety f's you up. Because it's a fraud that it's about the thing that has it. It's not fun. It's not nurturing to someone who probably needs any amount of stillness. I know what that's like.

I wouldn't look to another human being for confidence in anything. But that's okay, because all of our idols will have to fall anyway. We're still hugely handicapped with our relative degrees of awareness, and what the hell are we supposed to do? How are we supposed to know?
Who is there left to ask? Well, ourselves finally. But sometimes we're wrong, and sometimes on purpose. It sucks.

But partly what we do that makes things change is begin to risk something for truth's sake. It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong, you do the truthful thing. That's more to do with 'truth' than any of the rest of it. There are too many different stories out there to pick one. Don't bother. Get true yourself.

If they say "question everything", do they really mean "except me", or are they awake enough to include themselves, and so they question themselves as well. That's good. And there again, I'm deferring to someone else if I take on any advice at all.
That's not what I'm supposed to be doing.
I 'trust' people to behave like humans and it helps me to not murder myself if I learn that I'm a dick-head sometimes.

I'm sure David believes a lot of things that aren't true, and so do I. But I have to represent what I 'believe' to be the truth at least until the next wave of whatever comes along and prunes me back again. I try not to get too far afield of experience, but if you think you know you have to stick it out there so the blade can reach it.
'Represent' doesn't include any mandate to talk about it by the way. But some guys are driven to, and so it gets done. Everybody wins and everybody learns discernment eventually.

It's about learning to use our minds in an entirely different way. We don't just 'click' - now we're in the fifth dimension. I'm only just beginning to appreciate the sort of world I'd create if it's up to me, because I'm only just getting to know myself. That skin of 'unacceptable' is being shed and I think it's because I'm honest with myself now. Well, certainly more than before.

The part of human consciousness that needs to be something, anything at all, uses the tools it was given to express what that is. That may include any manner of manifesting dramatic events, or possibly dramatization of events. Oh really? Who does that? Who me?
But David's fulfilling his role if he only just gets people to redefine their roles and relationship with the world and begin to want something at least a little bit 'truer'. We're not talking about the world, we're talking about those 'with ears to hear'. Well, that would probably be exclusive to guys who are listening. Probably no one else.
I don't know, I just enjoy him. I'm not really critiquing what he says. I can't make a picture to go along with it, so it remains somewhat abstract. Experience is never anything like how it's described.

So really, how perfect does integrity have to be in order to qualify as integrity? It has to be absolutely perfect to transcend the kind of cause and effect that we don't like. We're just beginning to think 'hey, this isn't okay'. Cleaning up your Karma
only means your cause and effect have become instantaneous. To the degree that you can say, 'Whow, I might not like to have that right back in my face', before it is.
It is important. It is a big deal.

Just continue to trust yourself because what I make of you, I think that you'd rather be wrong about the whole thing than right. But you can't s#it yourself, and that's what I appreciate. And because of that you can't avoid raising your concern. You're concerned about everybody and it'd be too weird if that excluded David. So I think you were misunderstood. David couldn't fault you. You don't have to defend yourself from that. It's a bit more questionable to me that anyone would ask you to. But people don't really read each other all that well in these scenarios, do they.

Sorry, I just had to say all that to thank you for this thread. Didn't mean to blather on. It could be really productive here if people can practice the kind of honesty we need to develop to finish this project.


And Harry Stanton makes a very unconvincing Apostle Paul. See??? There's just something missing. I can't help but point it out.

[Amzer Zo]

For those of you who are still able to process data in a rational fashion... this is what's being used and played with:

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMWVUoYNezU

I am sorry!

I love you!

That's it?

That's it!

[M6*]

Dear Taliesin,

I really liked what you said about taking the purest, cleanest water and pouring it through a rusty pipe!
The first time we do something like this, we might not know what will happen. After that, we need to consider what can happen.

Thanks, M6*

[Cartomancer]

This whole Wilcock thing is just pointing out how tenuous all of the evidence we use to form our beliefs is. I mean most people blindly believe something without even checking into it. I don't mean here I mean that is how mainstream religion works. Most people here at least look into a given subject and then pass judgement on whether it passes the litmus test or not.

I think Wilcock started out as an intelligent curious dude. He went to A.R.E. and he somehow became convinced that he was Edgar Cayce. He has now become all swept up in "hollywood" as it applies to this genre. Are there people out there B.S.ing us to make a buck? Yes. If I was psychic I would predict that much of this has happened because David now has a booking agent/promoter. He got signed. He made a deal. End of story.

[blake]

Hello mariposaf,

Concerning your last paragragh you wrote:

"I will add however that, as I said to you before, this is a forum where we aren't able to see each other, we can never be 100% certain what energy a person is putting into their message, and it's very very very easy for our typed words to be misinterpreted. So if you truly believe yourself to be misunderstood, I invite you to take the time to examine your writing style"

mariposaf, in my opinion, as we read the various posts, throughout the year, it may be obvious that many are read and interpreted through different colored lenses, as humans usually do. If one observes the dynamics, as objectively as they can, perhaps they may see that "awake" people are not so different than the "unawake" people in that all people awake or not have their sacred cows, and react in similar ways when their sacred cow is percieved as being "attacked", justified or not. Through history, people in general, including people on this forum or not, seem to appear to generally have a very easy time of being critical of others, while seeing themselves with blind eyes; and often refusung to have the courage of looking critically in the mirror at themselves, with a detailed look at how they communciate with others. Perhaps when you write:

" I invite you to take the time to examine your writing style."

this would be wise advise to every member on this forum, including yourself, mariposaf, if we all sincerely want to be awake and supportive humans. If we call ourselves awake individuals, and yet we can not adjust our reaction, politely and respectfully, when one of our sacred cows is being attacked without attacking those who disagree with us, are we really awakedned humans?

So many write that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but what price do some posters pay, often through the "nasty" reactions of others, when they state an opinion quite different from someone else? It is my opinion until one starts looking carefully in the mirror, and judging their own actions, then they are not aiding the advancement of a harmonious society; instead they are detracting from it. When we tell others to improve their writing style when we are blind to our own, how exactly does that help the harmony of a group of " awakened people?"

I do sincerely wish you a merry and joyous yuletide season, in whatever way you choose, or not choose to celebrate. All humans have the same needs, why would anyone begrudge another good thoughts?

Sincerely,

Mr. Davis

[Unified Serenity]

Posted by Elixer (here)
If you feel the need to defend DW or anyone, against critisicm brought by another, that might tell you something about yourself. It is really you defending your own belief system. Possibly.
That is one of the craziest things happening on this planet: people fighting, killing and dying for what they believe. There is no way to be certain about just about anything. How can you even ponder going to war over it? It's the fallacy of fanatisicm. We have to realize that we cannot know for sure, that it is just belief. And even: in this world many things are possible to the point where even two conflicting view points might both be right (depending on the level you view them from). If someone opposes you, it doesn't mean they're wrong, or right. And so on.

I think this hits a lot of the energy I wanted to convey. We have to be able to discuss topics and not take things personally. If what someone says does cause a strong emotional reaction, why? What is being pricked within that is stirring up what amounts to fear... fear of "am I wrong about X?" fear of losing a comfortable truth that might not be the truth? fear of confrontation because you don't like it but feel it is necessary to enter that and therefore takes one out of their peaceful space and makes them aggressive which for some reason they feel is wrong, I do not feel it is wrong, just try not to leave any bodies on the floor.

I do not look to be in a fight constantly, but I have found that if I bring up a touchy subject I am first attacked and ridiculed, and then I do get defensive and defend my points. I try not to mud sling, but I can and then, well I feel dirty and need to cleanse again which in itself is not a bad thing, but it's not my goal. I wish more people would post their views and questions. If we cannot question we cannot grow. There is no one here who has all the answers, but together I bet we have a lot of them, and can help one another along this evolution of spirit and thought.

Thanks elixer for shedding more light in this topic.

Much love,

Serenity

[M6*]

Hi Elixer!

Thanks for sharing the music. ....A good place to retreat amid cacaphony!
Makes me think I'm not too "old" to learn a new thing or two!

Sincerely, M6*

[Unified Serenity]

Posted by etm567 (here)
Thanks for the clarity. I've been standing back, not wanting to get into the mudfight again. Well said, from my point of view -- that is, just my cultish, mafioso, ripping to shreds and supposedly wishing-somebody-dead point of view!

And thank you ETM for displaying exactly what I have been talking about on this thread. Your ridicule,sarcasm etc add nothing to the spirit or intent of this thread other than to put me in my place which is basically that my views are not welcome, not wanted, and that I am a drama queen which is highly laughable for anyone who knows me to even consider. You seem to want people to give David the space to feel his emotions and believe he was about to die, and yet you do not offer the same respect for a member who shares information... David is beyond questioning and analyzing, but I am not. I'm a big girl and stand in what I have always said and posted.

I will share my views. I have walked some very dark roads in the physical and spiritual paths. I know when I am hated, and to hate someone is the same as murdering them in spirit. Some will understand what that means energetically and others will not. I highly recommend staying out of the energy of hate.

I do hope by sharing your voice that you are getting the peace you need, and if that is the case, I am happy I was able to help in that regard.

Much love,

Serenity