Salvia - a Hallucinogen For the Multitudes?

[Arrowwind]

of course I am putting this under alternative medicine for alternative approaches to mental and spiritual health.

I have been seeking a hallucinogen plant medicine recently and am seeking information really, on any plant medicine experiences that you may have. Mushrooms are ruled out for me and of course the most profound ayahuasca is just too diffiult to get. I am looking at Saliva due to its ease of growing in the States as well as the short duration of the hallucinogenic experience. I have not done it.

I am seeking information on how to use it, how it is best prepared and what what varieties can be used. I have a number of plants in my garden that were labled Salvia and they have had different color flowers from white to pale yellow to a very deep blue... so I suspect that they are different species. One blue one that I had came back as white after three years.. so what was with that?

Is it necessary to have the species divinorum or do other species work as well?
Any practical experience folks my have with this herb is appreciated.

I am considering it a hallucigin for the multitudes due its nontoxic nature and short duration of effect.


http://www.google.com/search?q=salvi...rlz=1I7SKPT_en
A new study provides some data: The hallucinogen kicks off an unusually intense and short-lasting high, with no obvious ill effects, researchers report in an upcoming Drug and Alcohol Dependence paper.
"This is a landmark paper because it’s the first paper in which authentic salvinorin A was administered to human volunteers under controlled conditions, and it was shown to be hallucinogenic," says psychiatrist and pharmacologist Bryan Roth of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, who was not involved in the research. "All we had before were anecdotal reports, where people had bought salvia extract from their local smoke shop."

[Laurel]

i have used salvia a few times. It used to be legal in my state and you could buy it at a local store. The first time you use it you should have someone with you, and not smoked it at the same time. Until you know how it will effect you, best to be safe and smart. The effects last about 20 minutes.

In my experience, it is a very positive herb. I completely agree that it is mentally and spiritually beneficial. It helps with depression, too. It is not addictive. Why the government has made it illegal, I'll never understand. Maybe because it is helpful?

I don't know much about the different colors, and have purchased the Purple Sticky brand in the past. I recommend the following website which I read cover to cover before buying salvia the first time.
http://www.salvia.net/

I hope this helps

[blufire]

Hi Arrowwind,

I’m not sure why you would want a hallucinogen for the general population especially in relation to mental or spiritual health. Maybe a bit more info on what results you are thinking of or hoping for?

As far as salvia as a hallucinogen then Salvia divinorum is your best choice. It is most commonly referred to as diviner’s sage. True divinorum is one of the most potent natural occurring psychedelics or entheogens that has been discovered.

Few people are aware that divinorum can only be grown from cuttings from a “mother plant”. A mature plant will produce seeds but they are generally not viable or may not produce a true divinorum plant. It is native only to the high mountains of Oaxaca Mexico and has been highly protected by the native people. Most divinorum plants or “preparations” purchased from dealers or through the internet are false or mimic divinorum like most etheogens you will find on the market

Your sage that you are growing in the garden are probably the more general and culinary sages. All most all sages though have valuable medicinal uses. Each variety will do slightly different things according to the medicinal constituent each contains.

Your blue flowering sage has mostly likely cross-pollinated with the more common white flowering sages. Another thought is many blue flowering plants are slightly to highly acid loving plants and require acid type fertilizers . . . coffee grounds work great! If they don’t have acid in the soil the flowers will not turn blue or purple. Most garden type sages are annuals but reseed each year.

[shamanseeker]

Are you saying that you can't even eat sage in the U.S. now? In Italy we eat a lot of sage (Italian "salvia"). Is this what you're talking about? It is very good for you and delicious. Especially good fried in butter

[seko]

I have taken Salvia Divinorum(ska maria pastora) from Oaxaca, Mexico and it's an amazing experience although a little scary the first time.

It lasts only 3 min. but those 3 min. are something to remember and the plant to be respected and not take it for fun.

A very interesting fact about Salvia Divinorum is that is NOT a hallucinogenic plant, it doesn't contain Nitrogen like the rest of the hallucinogenic plants. That is why is hasn't been banned in many countries fortunately.

Potency

By mass, salvinorin A "is the most potent naturally occurring hallucinogen."[57] It is active at doses as low as 200 µg.[24][53][57] Synthetic chemicals, such as LSD (active at 20–30 µg doses), can be more potent.[58] Research has shown that salvinorin A is a potent and selective κ-Opioid (kappa-Opioid) receptor agonist.[53][59] It has been reported that the effects of salvinorin A in mice are blocked by κ-Opioid receptor antagonists.[11] However, it is an even more potent D2 receptor partial agonist, and it is likely this action plays a significant role in its effects as well.[12] Salvinorin A has no actions at the 5-HT2A serotonin receptor, the principal molecular target responsible for the actions of 'classic' hallucinogens, such as mescaline and LSD, nor is it known to have affinity for any other sites to date.[11]

Salvinorin's potency should not be confused with toxicity. Rodents chronically exposed to dosages, many times greater than those to which humans are exposed, did not show signs of organ damage.[13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia_divinorum

[minkton]

Seko, that's interesting. I thought a Salvia 'trip' lasted a long while, generally. I would be interested in using Salvia for shamanic reasons, and if it was def 'only' going to take 3 minutes, that would be amazing. Are you able to share where you got the dose from precisely?!

[GlassSteagallfan]

It is available on ebay as well as smoke shops in NYS.

Laurel is correct - read up on how to use it first, otherwise it could have disastrous effects. Check your state laws too.

[minkton]

It is yes. I have seen it and also read up about it on Erowid and watched film about it on youtube.

But I never heard before of salvia which gave such a short duration strong effect, which was is why I asked speciifically for the details of whatever particular treatment Seko had experienced.

[seko]

Posted by minkton (here)
Seko, that's interesting. I thought a Salvia 'trip' lasted a long while, generally. I would be interested in using Salvia for shamanic reasons, and if it was def 'only' going to take 3 minutes, that would be amazing. Are you able to share where you got the dose from precisely?!

I don't know where you can find it in the U.S.

Here in Mexico I got it in Oaxaca which is the south of the country with friends, don't know the exact place where they got it from.

[DarMar]

If you gonna try it, deffinetly get someone by you to watch a bit

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auZx20vhhrU

[seko]

Posted by minkton (here)
It is yes. I have seen it and also read up about it on Erowid and watched film about it on youtube.

But I never heard before of salvia which gave such a short duration strong effect, which was is why I asked speciifically for the details of whatever particular treatment Seko had experienced.

I smoked it. What I saw was very interesting but what you see will depend on personal feelings or emotional state and it may not be same for anybody else.

It isn't addictive or harmful.

[astrid]

List of countries ( and states) where it is banned and about to be banned.
Note that in the USA lots of states have already banned it.
http://www.salvia.net/en/legality.htm

Note that this is ONLY Salvia divinorum culinary sage,
Salvia officinalis being still available and legal anywhere.

There are tons and tons of different Salvias

Looks like this is one of the main places to purchase if you are in the US.
But if its banned in your country, like it is in mine, forget it,
it will get stopped via customs.

http://www.arenaethnobotanicals.com/...-1.html?ref=17

For Europe try here..
http://azarius.net/smartshop/psyched...vinorum/?a=344

[minkton]

Thanks Seko. and Thanks Astrid.

DarMar, exactly! That's why I was intrigued by the short duration dose!

[9eagle9]

I treat depressions and anxiety, and release of emotional issues with Salvia. I have it periodically in ritual and have had workshops with others who wanted to experience out of body.

I'd find someone who is fairly well versed in it so they can sit with you. I don't have to tell you to be careful or follow instructions but I've had some people snorf down the smoke like they were smoking pot and go right off into another realm, spooking themselves and even the entities inhabiting that realms with their abrupt arrival there.

Low lighting, not dark but indirect. No loud noises, radio, music anything of that nature. No TV. It is a spiritual event and the vibration of those sorts of things can bang you right back to one's usual consciouness state.

Get comfortable and get your intentions in order. Spend time handling the herb and regarding it. Knd of communing with it and letting it know what you want to achieve. Then arrange the use of it around any sort of personal ritual , just creating a sacred space and intention. Try a low extraction at first like 5x or 10x. then one puff wait a minute, see how you feel then try another puff. "Stepping' into the experince.

That way you can just have a mild meditative state, a deeper one, a sorta of loopy in between worlds space, or just going out of body. I find using too much as to go completely unconscious to be sort of like missing the whole point but some people do that too.

Just step up your puffing until you reach the level you wish to work at. Some people try a few hits and then the next time around take the plunge. You'll know what is right for you.

Stage up in puffs of two. Unlike being drunk or high or on LSD there is a sober part of you that remains in a lot of clarity and then a part that is having the experience. So you have a sort of division where one part of you is grounded and the other going off. Then eventually you will go out all together.

Remain seated. Your sitter is there to make sure you remain seated because as the illusions drop away , the floor might too....lol.. Most people who have a bad experience with havent' done any work in clearing out any crap at all. Profuse sweating is sign of emotional release so not to be troubled by it. The good thing is peak experience is only about 10 minutes so even if you are not happy with whats going on you come out of it farily quickly. Plus your sitter can bring you out by turning on the TV and turning up the lights and then tapping hard on your chest. Because this isn't an organic effect one doesn't have to wait to 'sober up' or be metabolized to come back to one's usual conscious state.

Making sure you dignity is not held in high regard (he he) beause people start to respond to 'things' that aren't there . A good sitter will help you pull some stuff out during this time, like someone who knows how to counsel but failing all else find someone who has done it before, won't let you start walking (risking further loss of dignity and probably a fall) crazily around, and can tap you if you start not liking what is occuring.

From what I know about you, you're clear-er than most and will 'process ' the event properly.

I think you'd do well with the expeirience just go into it as makes you feel comfortable and respectfully and you will be fine.

[ScubaMonkey]

I'd advise caution. Where as the trip may only last for but a few mins, it can feel like a lifetime when you're treking on through it. Ensure someone sober is on hand to keep an eye on you and make sure you don't do anything too daft. Most importantly, be entirely sure that you do actually want to do it. Remove any doubts or worries about it from your mind, otherwise you could be in for the longest few mins of your life!

[Arrowwind]

Thank you all for your great responses... so far it seems to still remain legal in my state and is not even up for discussion.

astrid.. thanks for the links.

9eagle9 - thats for the prep notes.

I haven't had time to go through all the posts yet but I think you all have brought forth the information that I am seeking.

Ive done some hallucinagen in the distant past but am feeling like it may be appropriate in the not to distant future for our women's circle. I so love the actual plant and have had it around for quite a long time now but I dont think its the correct variety. I go to Oaxaca fairly often, and likly next winter on our drive to Palenque so I may investigate further there if possible.

Seems that through the right websites I can purchase living plants so that is of considerable interest.
Thank you all for your insights.

[Arrowwind]

Oh, someone asked about the idea of a hallucigen for the mulitudes...

Well. its like this. I have always really appreciated and respected the power of plant medicine. I also appreciate the power that such medicine has to help people to move forward in awakening.. Salvia is not real well known and I have seen quite disasterous results with other types of trips. Of course I absolutely agree that a guide is requried or some sort of sealed ceremonial space. We have been talking about the possibility in a group I belong to, discussing what could be a good option and not too dangerous for the variety of particpants that we encompass. So I am looking at Salvia.... I would say that as a group we very much represent the multitudes in our vibratory status, experience, understanding and energetic needs as well as desires for exploration, being in a wide spectrum of ages, employ and spiritual diciplines.

[Kumonitori]

Hi Blufire,
I did a quick search for the type of Salvia you mentioned, "Salvia Divinorum".
I found two strains, Blosser Strain and Wasson & Hoffman Strain.
Would you or anyone on this thread know what the difference of these two are, in terms of medicinal potency or the ease of growing them?

[minkton]

Posted by ScubaMonkey (here)
I'd advise caution. Where as the trip may only last for but a few mins, it can feel like a lifetime when you're treking on through it. Ensure someone sober is on hand to keep an eye on you and make sure you don't do anything too daft. Most importantly, be entirely sure that you do actually want to do it. Remove any doubts or worries about it from your mind, otherwise you could be in for the longest few mins of your life!

Hi ScubaMonkey, have you also done salvia and found it lasted for only a few minutes? (BTW, I get you about the time distortion potential.)

¤=[Post Update]=¤

for anyone that doesnt think a few mins can be a long time, just imagine being at peak orgasm for three minutes.

( yeh! imagine it!)

[w1ndmill]

Posted by minkton (here)

for anyone that doesnt think a few mins can be a long time, just imagine being at peak orgasm for three minutes.

( yeh! imagine it!)

Yes, yes, yes - OMG my eyeballs just rolled out . . .