+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1 4
Results 61 to 78 of 78

Thread: How the Church of Scientology declares war on ex-members

  1. Link to Post #61
    Avalon Member TrumanCash's Avatar
    Join Date
    28th April 2012
    Location
    Planet Earth
    Posts
    1,014
    Thanks
    2,537
    Thanked 8,267 times in 986 posts

    Default Re: How the Church of Scientology declares war on ex-members

    Here is a very recent 60 Minutes Australia production "Where is Shelly Miscavige" with Leah Remini, Mike Rinder and Ron Miscavige.



    https://www.9news.com.au/2019/02/10/...rd-leah-remini

    https://www.9news.com.au/2019/02/10/...cavige-mystery
    Last edited by TrumanCash; 12th February 2019 at 19:46.

  2. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to TrumanCash For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (12th February 2019), BMJ (19th February 2019), Deux Corbeaux (12th February 2019), Nasu (15th February 2019), peterpam (12th February 2019), Valerie Villars (12th February 2019)

  3. Link to Post #62
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    20,522
    Thanks
    67,903
    Thanked 259,794 times in 18,990 posts

    Default Re: How the Church of Scientology declares war on ex-members

    In an unlikely cross-connection, Richard Dolan here talks about The New Totalitarianism.

    In one section, what he's presenting is EXACTLY EXACTLY descriptive of the Church of Scientology. Listen from 12:55—15:34, starting with the "Cult of Personality", and how there's a "religious nature to them" (i.e the personalities).

    He then goes on to distinguish between authoritarianism and totalitarianism, as totalitarianism seeks to control your mind in every way (Dolan's words), referring to Orwell's "Thought Crime" and "Wrong Think" (sound familiar?!) — and totalitarianism seeks to control the totality of your life.


  4. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    BMJ (19th February 2019), Denise/Dizi (21st February 2019), happyuk (15th February 2019), Kryztian (15th February 2019), petra (19th February 2019), Sophocles (15th February 2019), TrumanCash (15th February 2019), Valerie Villars (15th February 2019), Yoda (15th February 2019)

  5. Link to Post #63
    Great Britain Avalon Member
    Join Date
    16th March 2010
    Location
    NE England
    Posts
    123
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 20 times in 12 posts

    Default Re: How the Church of Scientology declares war on ex-members

    I would like to address the statement that scientology tech "works". I think this statement is too much of a generality. For instance, I believe Bill Ryan has said in the past that he got gains from Dianetic "Book 1" auditing. Well, that's great but I have received over 50 hours of this type of auditing from an official scientology organization and I got nothing from it. I also know that the Dianetics book itself is full of lies about the (non-existent) research Hubbard did and his claims about the State of Clear, which doesn't actually exist. I also received hundreds of hours of scientology auditing up to and beyond the so-called State of Clear and I can tell you there are no Clears or OTs in scientology. Hubbard even backtracked on his claims about Clear in the book entitiled: "A Book Of Case Remedies".

    I am not trying to negate any benefits anyone has had from auditing. I know the lower level processes can produce some "feel good" moments but I wouldn't like to see someone decide to go into a scientology org to try it for themselves after hearing someone say "the tech works".
    Last edited by justpeter; 19th February 2019 at 16:11.

  6. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to justpeter For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (19th February 2019), Denise/Dizi (21st February 2019), Nasu (19th February 2019), petra (19th February 2019), TrumanCash (19th February 2019)

  7. Link to Post #64
    Canada Avalon Member
    Join Date
    7th July 2016
    Location
    Newfoundland, Canada
    Age
    39
    Posts
    1,391
    Thanks
    4,983
    Thanked 4,508 times in 1,252 posts

    Default Re: How the Church of Scientology declares war on ex-members

    Quote Posted by TrumanCash (here)
    More recently, Leah Remini's "Scientology and the Aftermath" has awakened many people to the dangers of the cult of $cientology.
    Myself included! I watched most of her documentary and she really captured my attention, it's all over TV here in Canada.
    I watched a separate thing with her and J-Lo where she offhandedly remarked to J-Lo in front of the entire audience "you knew I used to be in a cult right?" (I'm paraphrasing)

  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to petra For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (19th February 2019), Denise/Dizi (21st February 2019), TrumanCash (19th February 2019)

  9. Link to Post #65
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    20,522
    Thanks
    67,903
    Thanked 259,794 times in 18,990 posts

    Default Re: How the Church of Scientology declares war on ex-members

    Quote Posted by justpeter (here)
    I would like to address the statement that scientology tech "works". I think this statement is too much of a generality. For instance, I believe Bill Ryan has said in the past that he got gains from Dianetic "Book 1" auditing. Well, that's great but I have received over 50 hours of this type of auditing from an official scientology organization and I got nothing from it. I also know that the Dianetics book itself is full of lies about the (non-existent) research Hubbard did and his claims about the State of Clear, which doesn't actually exist. I also received hundreds of hours of scientology auditing up to and beyond the so-called State of Clear and I can tell you there are no Clears or OTs in scientology. Hubbard even backtracked on his claims about Clear in the book entitiled: "A Book Of Case Remedies".

    I am not trying to negate any benefits anyone has had from auditing. I know the lower level processes can produce some "feel good" moments but I wouldn't like to see someone decide to go into a scientology org to try it for themselves after hearing someone say "the tech works".
    Well, no-one should go into a Church of Scientology org for ANYTHING.

    Yes, the tech works. Definitively and categorically. But it has to be done right.

    Here's an analogy. Laser eye surgery works. But that has to be done right, too.

    Or else, you just have to go back again and again and AGAIN to repair the damage caused by the last badly-done surgery.

    And pay more and more money for it
    . That's WHY the 'Church' doesn't do it right. So you have to keep going back for more.
    * Btw, I never did much Dianetics. My gains, which have been life-changing and life-enhancing to the degree that they're hard to describe, have all come from the Upper OT levels. The last 'OT level' delivered by the Church is nowhere near as far as there is to go. (The most valuable levels contain material the Church doesn't even know about.)
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 19th February 2019 at 18:24.

  10. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    Andrew_K (19th February 2019), Denise/Dizi (19th February 2019), James Newell (19th February 2019), justpeter (19th February 2019), Nasu (19th February 2019), petra (19th February 2019), TrumanCash (19th February 2019), Valerie Villars (19th February 2019), Yoda (20th February 2019)

  11. Link to Post #66
    Avalon Member TrumanCash's Avatar
    Join Date
    28th April 2012
    Location
    Planet Earth
    Posts
    1,014
    Thanks
    2,537
    Thanked 8,267 times in 986 posts

    Default Re: How the Church of Scientology declares war on ex-members

    Quote Posted by justpeter (here)
    I would like to address the statement that scientology tech "works". I think this statement is too much of a generality. For instance, I believe Bill Ryan has said in the past that he got gains from Dianetic "Book 1" auditing. Well, that's great but I have received over 50 hours of this type of auditing from an official scientology organization and I got nothing from it. I also know that the Dianetics book itself is full of lies about the (non-existent) research Hubbard did and his claims about the State of Clear, which doesn't actually exist. I also received hundreds of hours of scientology auditing up to and beyond the so-called State of Clear and I can tell you there are no Clears or OTs in scientology. Hubbard even backtracked on his claims about Clear in the book entitiled: "A Book Of Case Remedies".

    I am not trying to negate any benefits anyone has had from auditing. I know the lower level processes can produce some "feel good" moments but I wouldn't like to see someone decide to go into a scientology org to try it for themselves after hearing someone say "the tech works".
    Thanks for sharing your experience, justpeter. From my own experiences I agree with much you say. Something I noticed is that different people get different things from their experience with $cientology. I agree that the state of "clear" does not exist as Hubbard described it. The state of "OT" from my own memories and experience is a state that did exist in the past but I've never met anyone who could go out of body at will, be at total cause over the physical universe or achieve "total freedom" with $cientology as Hubbard claimed.

    I was probably different than most people in that I only wanted to examine my own past lives and that's what interested me initially. And I did get that much out it in that I now know who I am as a spiritual being. I had been asking myself who I was since my childhood and what's really going on, so I got that question answered. I was also able to find out about my abductions by ETs and do a lot of research with regressions using basic techniques. I was also able to verify the accuracy of my memories with historical and archaeological research.

    I no longer recommend the Dianetics books because of Hubbard's claims. Apparently, Hubbard got the "earlier, similar" incident technique from Freud. I found that technique immensely productive and revealing when working with abductees. But these basic regression techniques are really quite simple and can be learned in a weekend workshop without any reference to Hubbard or his false claims. I quit the OT levels because I found that they were not helpful for me. I did not gain any new spiritual/psychic abilities from my experience with $cientology that I didn't already have. It's different for everybody, though.

    I don't mean to go off topic here but I think this phenomenon of no standard results from person to person and Hubbard's false claims regarding "clear" and "OT" are what has contributed to so many people leaving $cientology and actively exposing it now in this "war". It is also interesting to note that, ironically, the only violence and human rights violations that are being committed in this "war" comes from the so-called "church". How spiritual is that?

    Jason Beghe talks about Hubbard's false claims about "clear" in this video which I think is one of the best ones out there:

    Last edited by TrumanCash; 19th February 2019 at 18:31.

  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to TrumanCash For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (19th February 2019), Denise/Dizi (19th February 2019), justpeter (19th February 2019)

  13. Link to Post #67
    United States Avalon Member James Newell's Avatar
    Join Date
    20th July 2016
    Posts
    223
    Thanks
    284
    Thanked 1,031 times in 211 posts

    Default Re: How the Church of Scientology declares war on ex-members

    Bill is Right! Don't go the Church of Scientology for any auditing.

    The tech works quite well delivered standardly.

    As a high level tech datum states: There can be an infinity of wrongnesses around a rightness.

    For people that get no gains from auditing I have found there are reasons for that. We won't go into reasons for that.

    The books and tv shows get good exposure and interest doing their thing on Scientology and make lots of money. I have found that most of their data they put out is Off, or simply opinions and usually delivered with a bias. I knew Franks personally, he was a class A ahole, he had no tech training to speak of. Strangely enough a friend of mine recently said he got a person to audit from him. Go figure.

    The reasons I left weren't from a tv show. It was for incorrect delivery of the tech and group exploitation.

    Many take opinions as a fact and frankly it is a poor way to evaluate anything.

  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to James Newell For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (19th February 2019), Denise/Dizi (21st February 2019), petra (19th February 2019)

  15. Link to Post #68
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    20,522
    Thanks
    67,903
    Thanked 259,794 times in 18,990 posts

    Default Re: How the Church of Scientology declares war on ex-members

    Quote Posted by TrumanCash (here)
    Jason Beghe talks about Hubbard's false claims about "clear" in this video which I think is one of the best ones out there:

    Yes, I thought that was excellent, I have to say. I really enjoyed listening to him.

    It's 100% definitely the case that Hubbard enormously over-egged the description of 'Clear' back in 1950 (and for a while thereafter). But it actually does mean something technically, though it's really just another step along the way: in fact rather a minor one in the big picture of the gains that CAN be achieved. (All stepping stones are important, though, when using them to cross a river!)

    Regarding being disappointed by promises (and Hubbard is definitely guilty of making dangerously sky-high promises that were always likely to disappoint), it's all relative. It depends what one wants to address.

    If one wants to be a superman (or -woman!), one might have to work quite hard on that for quite a long time. But if one wants to (say) eradicate some phobias, anxieties, and continually recurring everyday problems, then — in the right hands!! — that can most definitely be done long before one attests to a state of Clear.

    In fact, Jason Beghe himself explains that his very biggest and most valuable win came to him on his very first morning there. But, listening to his very interesting personal story, after that there's every reason to conclude he was just very badly and continuously mishandled.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 19th February 2019 at 18:43.

  16. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    Denise/Dizi (21st February 2019), Iancorgi (20th February 2019), Kryztian (21st June 2019), TrumanCash (19th February 2019), Valerie Villars (19th February 2019), Yoda (20th February 2019)

  17. Link to Post #69
    Avalon Member TrumanCash's Avatar
    Join Date
    28th April 2012
    Location
    Planet Earth
    Posts
    1,014
    Thanks
    2,537
    Thanked 8,267 times in 986 posts

    Default Re: How the Church of Scientology declares war on ex-members

    This new video covers recent developments of $cientology's dirty tricks (i.e., "fair game" tactics) in Clearwater, Florida, attempts to derail a "Scientology and the Aftermath" TV episode, current investigation by Clearwater police into rapes by adult Sea Org members with subsequent "church" cover-up, false criminal charges filed against the Aftermath Foundation vice president Aaron Smith-Levin who appeared on the "Scientology and the Aftermath" series. The Aftermath Foundation helps people escape $cientology.

    In spite of the seriousness of some of the subject matter, Aaron makes it entertaining.



    Growing Up In Scientology
    Published on Feb 18, 2019

    I discuss recent fair game tactics Scientology had taken against me, the Aftermath Foundation and the "Scientology & the Aftermath" show. -- Aaron Smith-Levin
    Twitter: @GrowingUpInSCN
    Instagram: asmithlevin

    Supporters of Leah Remini FB Group:
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/14012...

    The Aftermath Foundation
    www.TheAftermathFoundation.org
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AftermathFou...
    Twitter: @AftermathFDN
    Instagram: TheAftermathFoundation

  18. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to TrumanCash For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (19th February 2019), Denise/Dizi (21st February 2019), Icare (19th February 2019), Valerie Villars (20th February 2019)

  19. Link to Post #70
    United States Avalon Member Denise/Dizi's Avatar
    Join Date
    2nd July 2017
    Age
    49
    Posts
    735
    Thanks
    6,862
    Thanked 4,195 times in 717 posts

    Default Re: How the Church of Scientology declares war on ex-members

    Quote Posted by TrumanCash (here)

    I agree that the state of "clear" does not exist as Hubbard described it. The state of "OT" from my own memories and experience is a state that did exist in the past but I've never met anyone who could go out of body at will, be at total cause over the physical universe or achieve "total freedom" with $cientology as Hubbard claimed.
    WOW Truman. You just hit on something here that absolutely ties into my contact experiences.. I bet it is no coincidence as I absolutely WAS researching religions at the time, and Scientology came onto my radar. I do not know what Scientology is about but the things above that you dismiss? I EXPERIENCED... I believe this was a direct result of someone SHOWING ME, what we can achieve..

    I was allowed to play with physical reality using nothing more than my mind alone. This is no joke. (I wil explain aside from this thread)... I have experienced this in the waking state, fully alert sober and very aware that I was being allowed to "TRY IT" .. Of course I had a guide helping to facilitate these things, so they made sure that whatever was "Morphed" as I will call it, was something that wasn't dangerous or in any way going to affect anything in a negative manner.. Harnessing your thoughts and intentions when doing this becomes PARAMOUNT..

    My experiences came with NONE of the church behind it however. It was an et merely reaching out to me showing me what humans are truly capable of, if they can tap it. It was MIND BLOWING to be honest with you People CAN leave their bodies at will, and manipulate environments with mere thought alone. Of course I had some SERIOUS HELP when being shown this, I can't do it now..

    With THEIR HELP , (The et, not the church, I know nothing of Scientolgy as a religion)..I was able to reach that state of "Clear" as you call it... and I was shown how important it is to be in that state, when messing with things that are PHYSICALLY going to change.. (I have proof that this happened. But no one else would understand just how MIND BOGGLING the photo is, or why it is so relevant, to them it may seem to be a coincidence.. ).. It is difficult to share those things because of how they presented, and I KNOW no one would believe me. So I gave up trying honestly. I was seeking enlightenment, they were not. The experience was not for them to experience.

    All of those things above that you said we once had? WE STILL DO.. Tapping them is an entirely different story. I needed the help of an et to do it, but we ABSOLUTELY HAVE THIS ABILITY.. Staying in that place is the challenge.. I can't do it myself.. It is difficult to say the least.. When having my experiences, I was taught to meditate, to leave the body at will, and yes to even manipulate matter with my mind.. To say this was life changing is an understatement. Of course I can't do it now that they're not still dealing with me, but indeed I was allowed to "Go there"... That is still part of our capabilities, it just needs to be awakened.. In my case I am fairly certain those doors were deliberately shut so that I DIDN'T play with things I didn't understand, without supervision, and I am somewhat thankful for that. I was allowed to touch it, experience it, know that it is real, that truly was all I wanted..

    Sorry if this is out of context for the thread, but it excited me to see someone talking about this specific thing... I couldn't help myself.
    Last edited by Denise/Dizi; 19th February 2019 at 22:41.

  20. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Denise/Dizi For This Post:

    ErtheVessel (20th February 2019), Flash (20th February 2019), Icare (19th February 2019), justpeter (20th February 2019), Orph (19th February 2019), TrumanCash (19th February 2019), Valerie Villars (20th February 2019)

  21. Link to Post #71
    Avalon Retired Member
    Join Date
    26th December 2010
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    9,562
    Thanks
    37,831
    Thanked 52,696 times in 8,857 posts

    Default Re: How the Church of Scientology declares war on ex-members

    Not out of context at all imo.

    I am just plainly eager and hopeful to one day reach that state. But I lack the discipline to control my mind perfectly and mostly to get rid of nefarious emotions and thoughts - one cannot have such powers if there are any remnants of hatred, jalousy, neurosis, etc in themselves. Otherwise we would end up being as bad as some higher levels controllers.

    Quote Posted by Diziblueyez (here)
    Quote Posted by TrumanCash (here)

    I agree that the state of "clear" does not exist as Hubbard described it. The state of "OT" from my own memories and experience is a state that did exist in the past but I've never met anyone who could go out of body at will, be at total cause over the physical universe or achieve "total freedom" with $cientology as Hubbard claimed.
    WOW Truman. You just hit on something here that absolutely ties into my contact experiences.. I bet it is no coincidence as I absolutely WAS researching religions at the time, and Scientology came onto my radar. I do not know what Scientology is about but the things above that you dismiss? I EXPERIENCED... I believe this was a direct result of someone SHOWING ME, what we can achieve..

    I was allowed to play with physical reality using nothing more than my mind alone. This is no joke. (I wil explain aside from this thread)... I have experienced this in the waking state, fully alert sober and very aware that I was being allowed to "TRY IT" .. Of course I had a guide helping to facilitate these things, so they made sure that whatever was "Morphed" as I will call it, was something that wasn't dangerous or in any way going to affect anything in a negative manner.. Harnessing your thoughts and intentions when doing this becomes PARAMOUNT..

    My experiences came with NONE of the church behind it however. It was an et merely reaching out to me showing me what humans are truly capable of, if they can tap it. It was MIND BLOWING to be honest with you People CAN leave their bodies at will, and manipulate environments with mere thought alone. Of course I had some SERIOUS HELP when being shown this, I can't do it now..

    With THEIR HELP , (The et, not the church, I know nothing of Scientolgy as a religion)..I was able to reach that state of "Clear" as you call it... and I was shown how important it is to be in that state, when messing with things that are PHYSICALLY going to change.. (I have proof that this happened. But no one else would understand just how MIND BOGGLING the photo is, or why it is so relevant, to them it may seem to be a coincidence.. ).. It is difficult to share those things because of how they presented, and I KNOW no one would believe me. So I gave up trying honestly. I was seeking enlightenment, they were not. The experience was not for them to experience.

    All of those things above that you said we once had? WE STILL DO.. Tapping them is an entirely different story. I needed the help of an et to do it, but we ABSOLUTELY HAVE THIS ABILITY.. Staying in that place is the challenge.. I can't do it myself.. It is difficult to say the least.. When having my experiences, I was taught to meditate, to leave the body at will, and yes to even manipulate matter with my mind.. To say this was life changing is an understatement. Of course I can't do it now that they're not still dealing with me, but indeed I was allowed to "Go there"... That is still part of our capabilities, it just needs to be awakened.. In my case I am fairly certain those doors were deliberately shut so that I DIDN'T play with things I didn't understand, without supervision, and I am somewhat thankful for that. I was allowed to touch it, experience it, know that it is real, that truly was all I wanted..

    Sorry if this is out of context for the thread, but it excited me to see someone talking about this specific thing... I couldn't help myself.

  22. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Flash For This Post:

    Denise/Dizi (21st February 2019), ErtheVessel (21st February 2019)

  23. Link to Post #72
    United States Avalon Member Denise/Dizi's Avatar
    Join Date
    2nd July 2017
    Age
    49
    Posts
    735
    Thanks
    6,862
    Thanked 4,195 times in 717 posts

    Default Re: How the Church of Scientology declares war on ex-members

    One day I would like to get to talk to Bill for a few minutes, and ask him to tell me what he believes "Auditing" to be.. It sounds similar to what I experienced... Or partly...

  24. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Denise/Dizi For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (21st February 2019), ErtheVessel (21st February 2019), Gracy May (20th February 2019), Valerie Villars (20th February 2019)

  25. Link to Post #73
    United States Avalon Member Gracy May's Avatar
    Join Date
    8th January 2015
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    174
    Thanks
    946
    Thanked 974 times in 170 posts

    Default Re: How the Church of Scientology declares war on ex-members

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    My gains, which have been life-changing and life-enhancing to the degree that they're hard to describe, have all come from the Upper OT levels. The last 'OT level' delivered by the Church is nowhere near as far as there is to go. (The most valuable levels contain material the Church doesn't even know about.)
    Hello dearest Bill, and i just have to start with thank you thank you thank for all you have done for this forum, and this community, and for opening yourself up to answer all these questions!

    I have 2 myself. 1. I have been interested in scientology for some time now, have read bits and pieces of dianetics, but like you didn't really get all that much from it. What would you recommend someone new ike me starting with?

    2. What OT level have you gotten to? Is starting out at middle age too old to really get very far? and is it expensive?




    Edit: my apologies if this should have been posted in the question thread.
    Last edited by Gracy May; 20th February 2019 at 14:33.

  26. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Gracy May For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (21st February 2019), Denise/Dizi (21st February 2019), Valerie Villars (20th February 2019)

  27. Link to Post #74
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    20,522
    Thanks
    67,903
    Thanked 259,794 times in 18,990 posts

    Default Re: How the Church of Scientology declares war on ex-members

    Quote Posted by Diziblueyez (here)
    One day I would like to get to talk to Bill for a few minutes, and ask him to tell me what he believes "Auditing" to be.. It sounds similar to what I experienced... Or partly...
    Well, we can talk about all this at the Laughlin meetup, if anyone's interested. The word 'auditing' is one of many specific terms that Hubbard coined, and it simply means 'listening'.

    The auditing process is a structured question-and-answer procedure. That's all. If done right, it's interesting, helpful, and occasionally life-changing. It doesn't have to use the e-meter (which shows areas of emotional charge, attention or interest), but the e-meter often helps the auditor to fine-tune the questions.

    The session continues until an emotional release is obtained, together with a sense of new understanding of the particular issue being addressed, which might be anything between 5 minutes and a couple of hours.

    That's what auditing is.

  28. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    Denise/Dizi (21st February 2019), ErtheVessel (21st February 2019), Gracy May (21st February 2019), Mike (21st February 2019), Satori (21st February 2019), Valerie Villars (24th February 2019), Yoda (21st February 2019)

  29. Link to Post #75
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    20,522
    Thanks
    67,903
    Thanked 259,794 times in 18,990 posts

    Default Re: How the Church of Scientology declares war on ex-members

    Quote Posted by Gracy May (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    My gains, which have been life-changing and life-enhancing to the degree that they're hard to describe, have all come from the Upper OT levels. The last 'OT level' delivered by the Church is nowhere near as far as there is to go. (The most valuable levels contain material the Church doesn't even know about.)
    Hello dearest Bill, and i just have to start with thank you thank you thank for all you have done for this forum, and this community, and for opening yourself up to answer all these questions!

    I have 2 myself. 1. I have been interested in scientology for some time now, have read bits and pieces of dianetics, but like you didn't really get all that much from it. What would you recommend someone new ike me starting with?

    2. What OT level have you gotten to? Is starting out at middle age too old to really get very far? and is it expensive?




    Edit: my apologies if this should have been posted in the question thread.

    (note: yes, this, and Dizi's post above, might possibly better belong on this thread.)

    1) Well, I never said I 'didn't really get all that much from it'! I got huge, huge amounts. But I simply never did much Dianetics, instead working with other Scientology material.

    Some people will get huge benefits from Dianetics, and others may not. Like a diet, or nutrition regime (or healing regime of any kind!), what's best for one person might not be what's best for another.

    One can't be formulaic about this stuff. That's really important to understand. It has to be expertly evaluated and prescribed, and each person is different.

    2) I've completed SOL 1, which (depending on how you count them) is something like 4 levels beyond OT16.

    Costs in the independent field are a tiny fraction of the insane, extortionate amounts charged by the Church. And it's definitely never too late to start. One thing Hubbard was right about is that (my paraphrase!) any auditing gains you obtain in this life are carried forward (by you!) into the next one. You take them with you, as a spiritual being.

    A simple example. If one has a fear of heights, and it's discovered that that was because one slipped off the edge of a cliff in a previous life, and that incident is audited and erased, then the fear of heights is gone. And it won't be there in your next life, either, because it was you as a spiritual being that slipped off the cliff... not the body you have at the moment.

  30. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    Andrew_K (21st February 2019), Denise/Dizi (21st February 2019), ErtheVessel (21st February 2019), Gracy May (21st February 2019), Valerie Villars (24th February 2019), Yoda (21st February 2019)

  31. Link to Post #76
    United States Avalon Member Denise/Dizi's Avatar
    Join Date
    2nd July 2017
    Age
    49
    Posts
    735
    Thanks
    6,862
    Thanked 4,195 times in 717 posts

    Default Re: How the Church of Scientology declares war on ex-members

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Diziblueyez (here)
    One day I would like to get to talk to Bill for a few minutes, and ask him to tell me what he believes "Auditing" to be.. It sounds similar to what I experienced... Or partly...
    Well, we can talk about all this at the Laughlin meetup, if anyone's interested. The word 'auditing' is one of many specific terms that Hubbard coined, and it simply means 'listening'.

    The auditing process is a structured question-and-answer procedure. That's all. If done right, it's interesting, helpful, and occasionally life-changing. It doesn't have to use the e-meter (which shows areas of emotional charge, attention or interest), but the e-meter often helps the auditor to fine-tune the questions.

    The session continues until an emotional release is obtained, together with a sense of new understanding of the particular issue being addressed, which might be anything between 5 minutes and a couple of hours.

    That's what auditing is.
    Thank you for that offer Bill, I certainly appreciate it. And while I will not monopolize you in Laughlin, I certainly would love to talk to you about this there, if there is a free moment..

    And THANK YOU for telling me what Auditing is.. I had no idea. As I read this thread I now have a better idea of what it is that you folks are discussing.. I appreciate that..

    I suppose in many ways I WAS "Audited" only rather than doing so, using any technology, or hoping for an emotional response, (mine was all telepathic), and really very different in a very profound way. It was loving and nurturing.. Not at all, the sense of what I am finding here in the threads about Scientology, and not only that, it was far more involved than merely talking and having someone listen.. then gauging responses with technology.

    I bet you know absolutely know what I am suggesting, as your posts almost indicate that you too, have experienced what I am trying to hint at.. And you can understand why I have a difficult time describing it in a few words.

    And I would tend to agree, there is NO WAY the CHURCH even has access to THAT kind of auditing..

    (Thank you for guiding us to a thread that better suits our particular questions.. I would not have replied here had I seen that before I wrote it out.. I knew my questions were out of context but did not know there was another thread)
    Last edited by Denise/Dizi; 21st February 2019 at 01:51.

  32. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Denise/Dizi For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (21st February 2019), ErtheVessel (21st February 2019), petra (8th July 2019)

  33. Link to Post #77
    Canada Avalon Member
    Join Date
    23rd September 2017
    Posts
    524
    Thanks
    21
    Thanked 1,735 times in 434 posts

    Default Re: How the Church of Scientology declares war on ex-members

    Quote Posted by Gracy May (here)
    I have been interested in scientology for some time now, have read bits and pieces of dianetics, but like you didn't really get all that much from it. What would you recommend someone new ike me starting with?
    Gracy, you should start with the book Self-Analysis but see if you can find it somewhere besides the church. Once they get your contact info, you will be hounded for the rest of your life no matter where you move to.

  34. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to TomKat For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (24th February 2019), Flash (24th February 2019), petra (8th July 2019)

  35. Link to Post #78
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    20,522
    Thanks
    67,903
    Thanked 259,794 times in 18,990 posts

    Default Re: How the Church of Scientology declares war on ex-members

    From https://tonyortega.org/2019/06/18/ch...-legal-players

    Church of Scientology and David Miscavige sued for abuse by major legal players
    18 June, 2019

    We’re posting this press release in its entirety. We heard something like this was coming, and we have reason to believe there is more on the way…

    ~~~

    Church of Scientology and Leader David Miscavige Sued for Abuse, Human Trafficking, and Intimidation of Former Member

    Attorneys representing Jane Doe filed the first of multiple lawsuits to hold the Church of Scientology accountable for its extensive history of alleged abuse including its “Fair Game” policy that demands members destroy, by any means necessary, anyone who speaks out against the abuses committed within the Church.

    LOS ANGELES (June 18, 2019) – Today, attorneys representing Jane Doe, a former member of the Church of Scientology, filed a lawsuit in Los Angeles, Calif., alleging years of heinous abuse, human trafficking, and intimidation by members including David Miscavige, the de facto leader of the Church of Scientology. Jane Doe worked within Scientology for years, including directly for Miscavige.

    The complaint filed in the case details Scientology’s disturbing practices including rampant child abuse, exploitative commercial practices, horrific forced labor, and the devastating policies that seek to destroy families and escaped former members. This includes the official “Fair Game” policy which tells members to attack, injure, harass, embarrass, and destroy anyone who chooses to speak out against the Church of Scientology and Miscavige.

    Jane Doe was born into Scientology. The complaint alleges that beginning at age six, Doe was subjected to constant interrogation, abuse, harassment, and indoctrination by the Church of Scientology and its members. Doe alleges that she was forced to work under inhumane conditions for little pay in various para-military branches of Scientology pursuant to the “billion-year contract” she was forced to sign. Doe, while working directly for the hostile Miscavige, observed him assault and orchestrate attacks on other members. She was subject to solitary confinement and threats. Doe was threatened with “disconnection,” where the Church of Scientology instructs its members, including family and friends, to shun an escaped Scientologist. She ultimately escaped Scientology in 2017. After she left, Doe states that after speaking out against Scientology, she was subjected to persistent public attacks, which included innumerable false statements published online and on social media.

    Attorney Brian Kent of Laffey, Bucci & Kent, LLP said, “Scientology for decades has sought to quash dissention, cover up its long history of physical, emotional, and sexual abuse of its members, including its most vulnerable members, its children, and weaponize its doctrine against those who escape and find the courage to speak up. This is just the beginning and we are not going to stop until they do.”

    “There is no religious liberty defense for harming others,” said Marci Hamilton, University of Pennsylvania Professor and CEO and Academic Director of CHILD USA. “The CSI believers have the right to believe anything they want. But they cannot do whatever they want. This lawsuit continues the important work of the #MeToo era to bring institutions and individuals to account for child abuse, trafficking, and neglect.”

    Doe is represented by victims’ attorneys (who have represented victims of abuse within Penn State University, the Catholic Church, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and others) including Philadelphia attorneys Brian Kent, Gaetano D’Andrea, Stewart Ryan, and Lauren Stram of Laffey, Bucci & Kent, LLP, Marci Hamilton of CHILD USA, Jeffrey Fritz of Soloff & Zervanos, P.C., and California attorney Bobby Thompson of Thompson Law Offices, P.C.

    Anyone with information about The Church of Scientology or who has information about victimization within Scientology can call the law firm’s hotline at 855-382-3385.

    Laffey, Bucci & Kent, LLP is a personal injury law firm representing individuals seriously injured due to the negligence of others. The firm represents people who have been catastrophically injured in construction accidents and at work, in auto accidents and as a result of defective products. The Philadelphia lawyers also have a long history of representing sexual assault, sexual abuse and crime victims in civil actions. For more information, go to www.laffeybuccikent.com.

    ~~~

    And here’s the complaint. Let’s devour it…

    https://scribd.com/document/413784060/Jane-Doe-vs-Church-of-Scientology

    Well, it’s really not very clear to us why they are using “Jane Doe” in this case, when the fact that it’s Valerie Haney they’re talking about is more than obvious. And Valerie was the featured character on a nationally-televised broadcast under her own name.

    Of course it was Valerie who was David Miscavige’s steward and ultimately escaped from Int Base by hiding in the back of a car.

    We had a really interesting interview with her, the only one she’s given since her appearance on Leah’s show.

    Also, the lawsuit is not alleging any sexual crimes. So we’re not going to pretend that we don’t know that Jane Doe is really Valerie Haney.

    Her story is electric. And she’s a fighter. We’re really looking forward to seeing how this lawsuit unfolds. And, prepare yourself for several more that are coming.



    This lawsuit was filed in the same courthouse, Los Angeles Superior Court, that Laura DeCrescenzo wrestled with for nine years before getting a huge settlement from Scientology, and for many similar allegations.

    So keep in mind that Scientology will probably throw the same kinds of exasperating delaying tactics and dishonest strategies at this and the other lawsuits that are coming.

    On the other hand, the legal team that has been assembled here is truly extraordinary. Let’s go through some of them.


    M. Stewart Ryan

    Can you say Cosby prosecutor?

    M. Stewart Ryan was an assistant district attorney who prosecuted Bill Cosby for sexual assault in Pennsylvania, resulting in a conviction and prison time. Ryan left that position last year to join one of the law firms that has filed the new suit against Scientology.


    Guy D’Andrea

    Guy D’Andrea is a former New Jersey prosecutor who, in 2015, got a conviction against the “Philadelphia Craigslist killer,” who had shot a man showing up for an ad about an ATV.

    Brian Kent was previously a prosecutor in the Sex Crimes Unit for Pennsylvania’s Montgomery County District Attorney’s Office. He made national news two years ago for cases of sexual abuse located at “Massage Envy” parlors in Florida, and after he took on the cases of multiple women, a perpetrator was arrested and prosecuted.


    Marci Hamilton

    Marci Hamilton is a constitutional scholar at the University of Pennsylvania who, in 2016, founded CHILD USA, which advocates for issues on child abuse.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 20th June 2019 at 22:21.

  36. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    Bluegreen (20th June 2019), Clear Light (20th June 2019), Constance (23rd June 2019), Denise/Dizi (21st June 2019), Gemma13 (21st June 2019), Kryztian (21st June 2019), Mike (20th June 2019), muxfolder (22nd June 2019), Star Mariner (22nd June 2019), ulli (21st June 2019), Valerie Villars (20th June 2019), Yoda (23rd June 2019), Zanshin (20th June 2019)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1 4

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts