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Thread: Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

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    New Zealand Avalon Member Carmen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

    Help! I see both sides of this discussion/argument too! And they are both equally valid! I applaud Gary for his well- stated argument. What we need to look at is what forms this skewed, unnatural mindset of people today! These weird ideas are deliberately formed by advertising via television! You know! That thing that wee kids are plonked in front of from a tender age to be entertained/amused/sidelined by parents who are too busy/lazy, or who are watching the same mind controlling crap themselves. Works great! They sit for hours in a trance like state while their brains are down loaded with stuff to buy, stuff to eat, sex, violence. Then we throw up our hands in despair at the youth of today and their violence, their sexuality, their set standard of beauty. They are taught via television to be clones. None of them want to be unique and different in case they are not acceptable in the tribe dictated by television.

    Go smash the tele and stop living in a virtual, unreal world.

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    Default Re: Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

    'Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all
    Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.'

    This verse from an old poem comes to mind when discussing the pitfalls of "beauty"

    The ideal of beauty seems to have made many people unfriendly, selfish, and they judge everyone by "looks" and not the qualities of the soul, like kindness.
    Last edited by Mulder; 28th January 2012 at 06:31.
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    Default Re: Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

    Quote Posted by astrid (here)
    The point is the "woman" at the end is not a woman at all,
    but a fabricated image
    .


    We are bombarded with images
    we are meant to aspire to be like.. but they are not only
    totally unrealistic they are not even real.

    The main point that Dove is trying to make is the
    images of women used to sell things are bear no
    relationship to what the average woman looks like,
    Hence it creates mass issues with insecurities,
    eating disorders, etc, etc..

    Whether she looks better or not is not the issue here.
    Your bias is understandable given you are a photographer.

    But again, you are missing the whole point of the video and this thread.
    Points to Ponder:

    1. The girl in the video was digitally enhanced...true
    2. Human beings do not genetically look like that......true
    3. The image is both misleading and fraudulent...due to the digital manipulation of her neck, eyes, hair, etc.....true.
    4. The girl in the images bears no relationship to what the average woman looks like...true
    5. Hence it creates mass issues with insecurities, eating disorders, etc, etc.....true
    * (so does chocolate)

    I totally agree with your points wholeheartedly.



    However one could argue certain advantages too.


    * The video could be made to show that even a plain Jane kind of frumpy girl, can make it as a model.

    * She can be famous, have her name in lights. She can be a star

    * Many girls believe because they lack the genetic traits that would propel them into the limelight, they are doomed.

    * However, reality and beauty are in the eyes of the viewer.

    * Therefore, what Dove has also shown, is that anyone .....absolutely ....anyone....can be a star


    Just a case of how you wish to view the glass....as half empty or half full.

    Perception is a strange thing....isn't it?

    Therefore, where do you draw the line, without ....infringing on the the rights...or dreams....of someone who is searching for their..somewhere over the rainbow.

    Last edited by Vitalux; 17th January 2012 at 04:37.

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    Default Re: Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

    Quote Posted by Carmen (here)
    Help! I see both sides of this discussion/argument too! And they are both equally valid! I applaud Gary for his well- stated argument. What we need to look at is what forms this skewed, unnatural mindset of people today! These weird ideas are deliberately formed by advertising via television! You know! That thing that wee kids are plonked in front of from a tender age to be entertained/amused/sidelined by parents who are too busy/lazy, or who are watching the same mind controlling crap themselves. Works great! They sit for hours in a trance like state while their brains are down loaded with stuff to buy, stuff to eat, sex, violence. Then we throw up our hands in despair at the youth of today and their violence, their sexuality, their set standard of beauty. They are taught via television to be clones. None of them want to be unique and different in case they are not acceptable in the tribe dictated by television.

    Go smash the tele and stop living in a virtual, unreal world.
    Well done! Post and I completely agree wholeheartedly.
    Thank you for your kind words

    Television is the worst offender of mind pollution that I know of.

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    Default Re: Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

    Quote Posted by astrid (here)
    The point is the "woman" at the end is not a woman at all,
    but a fabricated image
    .


    We are bombarded with images
    we are meant to aspire to be like.. but they are not only
    totally unrealistic they are not even real.

    The main point that Dove is trying to make is the
    images of women used to sell things are bear no
    relationship to what the average woman looks like,
    Hence it creates mass issues with insecurities,
    eating disorders, etc, etc..

    Whether she looks better or not is not the issue here.
    Your bias is understandable given you are a photographer.

    But again, you are missing the whole point of the video and this thread.
    Astrid,

    I believe from reading most of the posts, most people agree with you. Notwithstanding the "Western" reference, which I know relates to marketing, as opposed to "Eastern" oppression, I think it a great success. And, I long for an unpainted and undeodorized woman, that yes, I can smell if she likes me or not (with or without perfume).

    To the future....

    Imagine our increased awareness allowing the glow of our souls to supersede our physical appearances; yet
    Imagine our increased power allowing us to look at ourselves in the mirror to at our whim adjust the design of our noses, teeth, freckles, acne, ears, or wherever we want [I believe we do exactly that prior to birth for this life, including our challenges, in order to to learn a lesson or more];
    Imagine no loss of wealth to corruption, scarcity, envy-marketing, wars, crime, disease, energy, transportation and contaminated food;
    Imagine an economy based on the best universal technologies and efficiencies, so that we could spend our time doing wonderful things, rather than working for the corporation;
    Imagine absence of insecurities that compel us to over consume in competitions to grow asses bigger then barns.

    It's easy if you try.
    Last edited by EnergyGardener; 17th January 2012 at 05:05.
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  9. Link to Post #126
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    Default Re: Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

    Quote Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
    . People enjoy illusions but we should always remain aware that they are illusions.
    Definitely, awareness is perhaps the key to solving this dilemma.


    However, it is a very huge arena of issues to deal with.
    It is often difficult for some to differentiate fact from fiction or illusion from reality.
    It is difficult to draw the line.

    Do we stop teaching our children about Santa Clause? Religion? The Easter Bunny? Tooth fairy? Evolution vs Creation?

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    Default Re: Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

    G'day All,

    Firstly, thank you astrid for yet another excellent thread.

    I'm one ugly son of a bitch. I look like I came off a bike doing somewhere near 180 kph after hitting a kangaroo (mostly cause I did). I talk to people all the time. In shops, on the street, even at traffic lights. When I had dredlocks down to my backside they'd chat with me about them and ask questions. When I shaved my head people asked why. I trimmed about a foot off my beard the other day and will get asked why when I go to town next. I'm a funny bastard, don't talk rubbish and people just chat with me cause (as one bloke said) "don't know what it is but ya just make sense ya idiot".

    I saw a woman about three months ago in town who was so thin it made me want to look away. She could barely carry her shopping basket she was so weak. I walked over and asked if she needed a hand with her basket and we got talking. I told her she looked sick and she said I was ugly. We got along great. I reckon she'll be dead within the year. Yep, personal choice is great. I don't care if people reckon the sheila in this vid looks better with the "spray putty, touch ups and modification" or that she can only succeed in "advertising" and "modelling" with the modifications. I care that people starve themselves because of the unrealistic image that is portrayed within the media of the idealised "human body type".

    Other than that I'm loving the way consumerism can be justified as good for people and that anyone can succeed as long as they are willing to change. Ah yes, the capitalist dream. Brilliant stuff!

    There again, isn't that the message that has been filtering through to the populace since the introduction of the education system to reinforce the "owners of capital" methods of attaining and maintaining an obedient work force. It's just that now it is all encompassing and incorporates consumerist propoganda techniques (thanks Mr Bernays for that) that promote the myth of localised autonomy within a global framework controlled and manipulated by corporations and interest groups. Not to mention lowering the expectations of ugly bastards like me.

    Feelin' the love.
    Kind Regards,
    Panopticon
    "What we think, or what we know, or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence.
    The only consequence is what we do."

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    Default Re: Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

    Well computer images get to be a star anyway.

    That star has to live with the fact that's it's not really them. Those are the sort of people who get stalked and photographed by having the natural, less desireable attributes the computer erased out splashed all over the nation. Where is the computer enhanced imagery to save them then from public humilation when they get found out that they really look like the back end of old drayhorse Ethel? We are having this discussion because people are so brainwashed they don't have their own best interests at heart.

    Most of here in this forum don't express the desire to be stars . There's enough people in the alt media that already thinks they are reincarnated galaxies . Who cares about being a little old singular star. Most people in here though, they talk about being free.

    I don't think anyone here has infringed on anyone's right to dream or become whatever they want. But is this even becoming a real model?

    I'd certainly not advocate laws concerning what someone wants to do with their face. But...read the fine print. Full disclosure. At the end of the day the person who has had their top selling book written by a ghost writer, has to live with the fact that .....they didn't write the book. And ...the media is always looking for a scandal.

    Stardom isn't just about creating fake images. Take a look our Olympics team not everyone is drop dead gorgeous there. Stephen King is a star but I haven't' seen him advertised as a model of appealing sexuality lately. He is a star by creating fictions but he doesn't' advertise them as reality. Full disclosure. We can have stardom without faking it.

    So woman are composed of fake images now but I bet you anything if they all started faking orgasms the roof would collapse. I at least hope someone would protest that anyway.

    So this is matter of what people really want . You can't have this and the 'Oneness' that everyone clamors on about. You can't have a real world when everyone is artificially generated. If the world is illusionary its because we are making agreements to have it that way.

    You can't have a peaceful world or harmony or any of those things that people and their blabbery mouths are always going on about if we are all relegated to artifical posing and images.

    If people want that I wish they'd just shut up about the whole "I want peace on earth' schism because it just make them look like an idiot to keep clamoring about wanting what they don't want.

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    Default Re: Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

    We have been complicit with TPTB in creating this 'culture', any program to curb this problem will fail while our 'vision' supports it.

    Photo shop isn't evil, and make-up isn't evil (just toxic) so what is evil? or vision and our culture.

    I haven't seen an image like in the OP since i saw that exact image last time, some 6 months ago. Because i don't watch TV or read glossy magazines.

    So how can we 'fix' this? By creating a Vision of a better culture. If our 'Vision' is good enough, IT WILL HAPPEN!

    From 'The story of 'b'' by Daniel Quinn

    “What I said was this: If the world is saved, it will be saved by people with changed minds, people
    with a new vision. It will not be saved by people with old minds and new programs. It will not be
    saved by people with the old vision but a new program.”
    Everyone in the room seemed to be looking at me, awaiting my reply. I couldn’t imagine why this
    was so, but there was no mistaking it. I said, “I’m not sure I know the difference between a vision and
    a program.”
    “Recycling is a program,” B said. “Supporting earth-friendly legislation is a program. You don’t
    need a new vision to engage in either of these programs.”
    “Are you saying that such programs are a waste of time?”
    “Not at all, though they do tend to give people a false sense of progress and hope. Programs are
    initiated in order to counter or defeat vision.”
    “Give me an example of what you mean by vision.”
    “Vision in our culture supports isolation, for example. It supports a separate home for every family.
    It supports locks on the doors. It powerfully supports staying isolated behind your locked doors and
    viewing the world electronically. Since this is the case, no programs are needed to encourage people to
    stay home and watch television. On the other hand, if you want to get people to turn off their television
    sets and leave their homes, that’s when you need a program.”
    “I see—I think.”
    “Isolation is supported by vision, so it takes care of itself, but community building isn’t, so it has to
    be supported by programs. Programs invariably run counter to vision, and so have to be thrust on
    people—have to be ‘sold’ to people. For example, if you want people to live simply, reduce
    consumption, reuse, and recycle, you must create programs that encourage such behaviors. But if you
    want them to consume a lot and waste a lot, you don’t need to create programs of encouragement,
    because these behaviors are supported by our cultural vision.”
    “Yes, I see.”
    “Vision is the flowing river. Programs are sticks set in the riverbed to impede the flow. What I’m
    saying is that the world will not be saved by people with programs. If the world is saved, it will be
    saved because the people living in it have a new vision.”
    “In other words, people with a new vision will have new programs.”
    “No, that’s not what I’m saying. I repeat: Vision doesn’t need programs. Vision is the flowing river.
    The Industrial Revolution was a flowing river. It needed no programs to get it going or to keep it
    going.”
    “But it wasn’t always flowing.”
    “Exactly. It wasn’t a river in the second century or the eighth or the thirteenth. There was no sign of
    the river in those centuries. But, one after another, tiny springs bubbled up and began to flow together,
    decade after decade, century after century. In the fifteenth century, it was a trickle. In the sixteenth, it
    became a brook. In the seventeenth, it became a stream. In the eighteenth, it became a river. In the
    nineteenth, it became a torrent. In the twentieth, it became a world-engulfing flood. And through all
    this time, not a single program was needed to further its progress. It was awakened and sustained and
    enhanced entirely by vision.”
    “I understand.”

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    Default Re: Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

    So, the programs are automatic from the vision accepted? New vision, new programs.

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    Default Re: Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

    ummm.... no... Programs are ONLY to counter vision. Vision requires no programs

    Quote “In other words, people with a new vision will have new programs.”
    “No, that’s not what I’m saying. I repeat: Vision doesn’t need programs. Vision is the flowing river.
    The Industrial Revolution was a flowing river. It needed no programs to get it going or to keep it
    going.”

    Here's a bit more

    “It’s a sign of our cultural collapse that supporting our vision has come to be seen as wicked, while
    undermining that vision has come to be seen as noble. For example, children in school are never
    encouraged to want the material rewards of success. Success is something to be sought for its own
    sake, certainly not for any wealth it might bring. Business leaders might be offered as role models
    because of their ‘creativity’ and their ‘contributions to society,’ but they would never be offered as role
    models because they have luxurious homes, exotic cars, and servants to attend to every need. In the
    world of our children’s textbooks, an admirable person would never do anything just for money.”
    “Yes, I suppose that’s true.”
    “The people of our culture are tremendous bullet-biters. For those of you who are unfamiliar with
    this idiom, ‘biting the bullet’ supposedly helps one tolerate pain. One first tries to avoid the pain, but if
    the pain absolutely must be borne, then one must ‘bite the bullet.’ For most who write and think about our future, it’s a foregone conclusion that we’re all going to have to bite the bullet very hard in order to
    survive. It doesn’t occur to these thinkers and writers that it would be far less painful to start fresh. As
    they view it, our task is to grit our teeth and cling faithfully to the vision that is destroying us. As they
    see it, our doom is to go on indefinitely hammering ourselves in the head with one hand while using
    the other to dispense aspirin tablets for the pain.”
    I asked, “Is it so easy to change a cultural vision?”
    “The relevant measures are not ease and difficulty. The relevant measures are readiness and
    unreadiness. If the time isn’t right for a new idea, no power on earth can make it catch on, but if the
    time is right, it will sweep the world like wildfire. The people of Rome were ready to hear what St.
    Paul had to say to them. If they hadn’t been, he would have disappeared without a trace and his name
    would be unknown to us.”
    “Christianity didn’t exactly catch on like wildfire.”
    “Considering the rate at which it was possible to spread new ideas in those days, without printing
    presses, radio, or television, it caught on like wildfire.”
    “Yes, I suppose it did.”


    Great book by the way... has many other 'big' ideas too.
    Last edited by wolf_rt; 17th January 2012 at 05:43.

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    Default Re: Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

    First thing that got me even interested in this thread was the title, I just felt it was so wrong on so many levels and issues. After reading several pages of opinions I had to quit and go to the last page. I'm not going to respond to anyone else's opinions. Astrid I sympathize with what you are trying convey however women all over the world are exploited and have been since time. I believe and I may be wrong, that you meant that women were being hypnotized by television, beautiful models,etc..........? And this causes women to have self esteem issues and eating disorders and what not in the trillion dollar industry of beauty products. Astrid my mother was born in 1939 and she had self esteem issues, my mother was gorgeous but her daddy used to tell her she was ugly. Knowing my Grandpa I understood at a young age that he was teasing her never realizing that she grew up believing it. So my mother would always tell me how beautiful I was so she couldn't understand why I would run away from home do drugs at the age of fourteen. I was not hypnotized I had been molested by my father from as young as I could remember 4 or 5 could have been younger I could only remember my father saying that daddies were supposed to teach their little girls these things. All the other topics brought up are all important issues just under a different forum.
    Blessings and Love Always,
    V

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    Default Re: Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

    Quote Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
    You can't have a peaceful world or harmony or any of those things that people and their blabbery mouths are always going on about if we are all relegated to artifical posing and images.

    If people want that I wish they'd just shut up about the whole "I want peace on earth' schism because it just make them look like an idiot to keep clamoring about wanting what they don't want.

    I am not too certain I understand what point you are trying to make?
    Last edited by Vitalux; 17th January 2012 at 06:08.

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    Default Re: Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

    Quote Posted by EnergyGardener (here)
    And, I long for an unpainted and undeodorized woman, that yes, I can smell if she likes me or not (with or without perfume).

    To the future....

    Imagine our increased awareness allowing the glow of our souls to supersede our physical appearances; yet
    Imagine our increased power allowing us to look at ourselves in the mirror to at our whim adjust the design of our noses, teeth, freckles, acne, ears, or wherever we want [I believe we do exactly that prior to birth for this life, including our challenges, in order to to learn a lesson or more];
    Imagine no loss of wealth to corruption, scarcity, envy-marketing, wars, crime, disease, energy, transportation and contaminated food;
    Imagine an economy based on the best universal technologies and efficiencies, so that we could spend our time doing wonderful things, rather than working for the corporation;
    Imagine absence of insecurities that compel us to over consume in competitions to grow asses bigger then barns.

    It's easy if you try.
    I just want to say here and now that I like my wife who shaves, uses deoderant, shampoo, and is happy with herself. Love you Khaleesi @--------->---

    All that other stuff you said is nice as well..... but I do like those other niceties. :D

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    Default Re: Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

    Quote Posted by gary-arsenault (here)
    I am not too certain I understand what point you are trying to make?
    Gary - I'll confess that I'm tempted to remove that gif of the girl flicking the door stop from your post.

    It's rather distracting, and I am not too certain I understand what point you were trying to make by posting it .

    Is it possible you're going (with this image and some others up thread) a bit over the top with the odd images on this thread?
    My quite dormant website: pauljackson.us

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    Default Re: Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by gary-arsenault (here)
    I am not too certain I understand what point you are trying to make?
    Gary - I'll confess that I'm tempted to remove that gif of the girl flicking the door stop from your post.

    It's rather distracting, and I am not too certain I understand what point you were trying to make by posting it .

    Is it possible you're going (with this image and some others up thread) a bit over the top with the odd images on this thread?
    Sorry Paul,... image removed.

    I often use images to illustrate a point that I am making. Many people tend to understand better when there are visual aids.

    I'm bailing on this thread.....not much more to really say on this topic.


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    Default Re: Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

    Quote Posted by gary-arsenault (here)
    Sorry Paul,... image removed.
    Thanks
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    Default Re: Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

    If you could please remove my image too Paul, since Gary used my face to demonstrate somthing that he failed to follow up on.

    Mind .....I don't care, Gary that a image of myself is on the thread but I prefer since it is my face, to have some of purpose or point to you posting it. And while its not neccessary to ask permission to use someone's avatar it would have been a courtesy, since I am a living breathing person here, not a artificallly generated image up for grabs that someone can just 'use' at will.

    I'm sure given the context of this thread that you understand.



    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by gary-arsenault (here)
    I am not too certain I understand what point you are trying to make?
    Gary - I'll confess that I'm tempted to remove that gif of the girl flicking the door stop from your post.

    It's rather distracting, and I am not too certain I understand what point you were trying to make by posting it .

    Is it possible you're going (with this image and some others up thread) a bit over the top with the odd images on this thread?

  27. Link to Post #139
    United States Avalon Member EnergyGardener's Avatar
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    Default Re: Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

    Quote Posted by Unified Serenity (here)
    Quote Posted by EnergyGardener (here)
    And, I long for an unpainted and undeodorized woman, that yes, I can smell if she likes me or not (with or without perfume).

    To the future....

    Imagine our increased awareness allowing the glow of our souls to supersede our physical appearances; yet
    Imagine our increased power allowing us to look at ourselves in the mirror to at our whim adjust the design of our noses, teeth, freckles, acne, ears, or wherever we want [I believe we do exactly that prior to birth for this life, including our challenges, in order to to learn a lesson or more];
    Imagine no loss of wealth to corruption, scarcity, envy-marketing, wars, crime, disease, energy, transportation and contaminated food;
    Imagine an economy based on the best universal technologies and efficiencies, so that we could spend our time doing wonderful things, rather than working for the corporation;
    Imagine absence of insecurities that compel us to over consume in competitions to grow asses bigger then barns.

    It's easy if you try.
    I just want to say here and now that I like my wife who shaves, uses deoderant, shampoo, and is happy with herself. Love you Khaleesi @--------->---

    All that other stuff you said is nice as well..... but I do like those other niceties. :D
    Let me state for the record that I am not unhappy with painted and deodorized women, my wife, specifically. I am just saying that, despite her perception otherwise, she is just as beautiful without makeup.

    I believe the point of this thread was that marketing "impossible and fake" images of women successfully increases women's insecurity to promote spending more on fashion and other unnecessary expenses (our further loss of wealth). These are practices, that while normal to our Western culture today, we may have no need for in the future. This Thread / discussion allowed us to ponder (and hope for) that future, including, as a bonus for me, by the men and women that agreed with me (pat pat pat).

    For the reassurance of all women (and perhaps men too), I for one will be just as happy with that evolution, and I was simply trying to increase confidence for all of the same. Some of you might have been taken aback by the excited response to the smell issue: All men are dogs; yes it's true.

    Though, like I referenced in my last "Imagine" line above, there is likely great reward in addressing all human behavior (that is likely aberrant to most of the universe not controlled by the God/s of the Illuminati) that reflect insecurities, including over-consumption, myself included.
    Last edited by EnergyGardener; 17th January 2012 at 17:31.
    What Happens to Us, Is Less Important, Than; How We React, When It Does
    -and-
    What Happens to Us, Is Less Important, If; We are Prepared, When It Does - US Copyright 2003

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  29. Link to Post #140
    United States Administrator ThePythonicCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Proof that Western Women are Brain Washed

    Quote Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
    If you could please remove my image too Paul, since Gary used my face to demonstrate somthing that he failed to follow up on.
    Gary apparently saw your request and already removed your image from his post. I just removed the one quoted copy of that image (in a post of yours) as well.
    My quite dormant website: pauljackson.us

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