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Thread: Exhausting good karma.

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    Default Exhausting good karma.

    Exhausting good karma.

    Karma is a word used to describe the results of causes and effect created by our reactions and intentions. It is stored in the eighth consciousness of the mind: it's the software. Because we hold onto ideas about ourselves, we constantly add or maintain this self image. Therefore we go round in circles, and the same things keep happening to us...in our world!

    So whatever occurs in the present moment - physical or mental - is a product of the past. It was karmically created.
    If we 're-act', we keep the whole process going.
    If we do not 're-act', no karma is created.

    So, we have pure intent and impure intent. Which produces good karma and bad karma. This is created because of the way we view things. So, fortunate things can appear, or unfortunate things can appear...in our world!

    The object of spiritual practice is to realise one's true nature, and exhaust all karmic effects!
    Of course we all want to get rid of bad karma, as we want nice things to happen to us.

    OK, here is the dilemma.
    We also have to exhaust good karma, i.e. all karma, so that the entire system collapses, and all that is left is empty essence, cognisant nature and unconfined compassion.

    Here is the problem, and this is why, when investigating, we need a well tried system to remind us.
    If we are fortunate enough to have good karma...(which is nice), we may tend to sit back and enjoy it, or take it for granted, while thinking “I am such a smart, gifted, good person. I am better than them.”

    We will tend to want to hold onto this good feeling ...about ourselves...and our world!
    Oh dear, we hadn't noticed the generation of bad karma, because of this attachment or clinging to this righteous self image!
    This is so easily done. This is why we have to be constantly alert, aware and mindful.

    This is also why compassion - putting others before self - is so important.

    In spiritual practice we need:
    Intense intelligence
    Intense compassion
    Intense emotions

    Be wise.


    All the best,
    Tony

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    Default Re: Exhausting good karma.

    I would like to paint a, hopefully complementary, perspective to karma.

    Any thought which we create (or any creation we think), any act we do, word we speak - anything that follows from the impetus given by our creative mind, starts a motion in the fabric of the universe with something like inertia - and it is that inertia which I think is directly referred to in the concept of karma.

    And as a snowball running down the hill gets larger, the cascade of cause and effect can often be such that the consequences can take on a "life" of their own - especially if we unwittingly persist in rolling that snowball.

    Even if the ball escapes us and continues its own merry way, we remain responsible for all that we create.

    This inertia can be neutralized.

    Forgiveness of the self and the otherselves is the key to that, a subject that has done the rounds on this forum a few times.

    Oh - and stop rolling the ball
    Last edited by Anchor; 17th January 2012 at 09:40.
    -- Let the truth be known by all, let the truth be known by all, let the truth be known by all --

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    Default Re: Exhausting good karma.

    Edited to nothingness.

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    Default Re: Exhausting good karma.

    Quote Posted by meeradas (here)
    Whos's the Doer?
    Is that for me or pie'n'eal?

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by meeradas (here)
    Edited to nothingness.
    Your message has ascended
    -- Let the truth be known by all, let the truth be known by all, let the truth be known by all --

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    Default Re: Exhausting good karma.

    Quote Posted by Anchor (here)
    Quote Posted by meeradas (here)
    Whos's the Doer?
    Is that for me or pie'n'eal?

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by meeradas (here)
    Edited to nothingness.
    Your message has ascended
    Isn't that amazing?

    Was for everyone... but decided against it. Too late, obviously...
    Last edited by meeradas; 17th January 2012 at 09:48.

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    Default Re: Exhausting good karma.

    In deciding who is the do'er I find myself with three possibilities for identifying the perpetrator

    a) That which I am

    b) That which I am not

    c) Of the infinite set of all, which encompasses both A and B.

    Those lucky people that find this easy, may have concluded that A is created in the image of B, so they are in a way the same; so 'C' may be choice.

    Those people identifying with the self, will choose A

    Those people recognizing B as a mirror of A are free to choose A or B

    What do you choose?
    -- Let the truth be known by all, let the truth be known by all, let the truth be known by all --

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    Default Re: Exhausting good karma.

    Two prayers to negate all karma.

    Morning prayer

    "Beloved
    I am born now from the womb of sleep
    I am determined to dedicate all acts this day as offerings to Thee with Thee ever present before my minds eye.
    Make my words thoughts and deeds sacred and pure
    Let me injure no one, let no one injure me
    Guide me direct me this day."


    Evening Prayer

    "Beloved
    The acts of this day, who's burdens I place upon you this morning are now over
    It was You who made me walk, talk, think and act.
    I therefore place at Thy feet all my words thoughts and deeds.
    Receive me now
    I am coming home to Thee"

    Keep in mind that the Beloved is your Higher Self
    You are praying to "That" which you are.

    A way of being emerges where there is neither attraction or aversion and life with all its ups and downs is enjoyed to the full.

    There is the realization that there are no personal events and life happens for you not to you.
    You are the totality all of it --- there is no individual self.
    The illusion is a belief in the individual self.
    Ramesh Balsekar (Advaita Sage) said. The biggest obstacle to enlightenment is the thought that you are the doer.
    The ego cant stand that and lays claim to being the author of your life.

    I am still trying to come to terms with the concept that I have no free will.
    I can accept that the God's will flows through the sages but I query that everything I do is the will of God.

    With me its still work in progress.

    Chris
    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Exhausting good karma.

    Lovely post pie eal, thankyou. Just what I needed to be reminded of, in fact. I was resting on some laurels without noticing what I was doing...

    Want to ask you... can you say more about the benefit of 'intense emotions' in this process? I 'd be grateful.

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    Default Re: Exhausting good karma.

    Quote Posted by minkton (here)
    Lovely post pie eal, thankyou. Just what I needed to be reminded of, in fact. I was resting on some laurels without noticing what I was doing...

    Want to ask you... can you say more about the benefit of 'intense emotions' in this process? I 'd be grateful.
    Hello Minkton

    This from the Tibetan Buddhist point of view.

    Intense emotions are easy to see and thus easier work with....That's the simple answer

    Now to get complicated...!

    The following will depend on one's attitude.
    The Hinayana attitude would be to cut the emotions dead. They do, however, still arise.
    The Mahayana attitude would be to find an antidote to the emotions. They do still arise though.
    The Vajrayana attitude would be to transmute the emotions into wisdoms.
    The Dzogchen/Mahamudra attitude would be to see that the emotions never existed in the first place.

    Here's a story to illustrate this:
    There is a poisonous bush (the negative emotions).
    A Hinayana practitioner wouldn't go near it.
    A Mahayana student would put a fence around it to protect others.
    A Vajrayana student would produce medicine from the bush.
    A Dzogchen/Mahamudra student would understand that the bush never existed!

    When I said “intense emotions,” I was speaking from the Vajrayana perspective, where one has no fear of the emotions.



    I don't know if this will help, but here goes.

    Our very subtle consciousness is, in essence, empty (unfabricated).

    It is said that our essence prisms into the five wisdoms:
    Mirror-like wisdom
    Discriminating wisdom
    The wisdom of Equality
    All-encompassing wisdom
    All-Accomplishing wisdom.

    These five wisdoms are said to have five qualities:
    Mirror-like wisdom = clarity precision
    Discriminating wisdom = selfless appreciation.
    Wisdom of Equality = generosity
    Accomplishing wisdom = efficiency without ambition
    Encompassing wisdom = spaciousness

    These five wisdoms are the bases for the emotions!

    When this very subtle Consciousness looks out and sees something, if it is in unity with its empty essence, it just sees.
    However, if the empty essence is forgotten, the thing seen will produce an emotion (because the empty essence has been forgotten).
    A judgement will arise, and 'other' will arise, because the “I” has slipped in.

    Mirror-like = Clarity/precision = Anger = I don't like
    Discriminating = Selfless appreciation = Desire = I want
    Equality = Generosity = Pride = I am better
    Accomplishing = Efficiency without ambition = Jealousy = I am worse
    Encompassing = Spaciousness = Ignorance = I don't care

    This all happens so quickly that it goes unnoticed.
    All that has happened is that the wisdoms became over excited, because they forgot their empty essence.
    We also forgot the empty essence of all phenomena. Everything is empty by nature, having no inherent existence.

    When one has realised one's true essence, then whenever an emotion arises, that very first instance of the emotion (before the I sets in), can remind you of your true essence!
    How wonderful is that?!
    You never need to be afraid of your emotions again! Or anyone else's!
    When this is realised, true unshakable confidence can arise.

    Awaken the warrior!

    At that moment true compassion wells up.

    Bet you're glad you asked... - but it was an incredibly important question.

    Tony

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    Default Re: Exhausting good karma.

    OKAY! I am SO glad I asked, that was a brilliant answer, more brilliant than I could have hoped for from anyone, anywhere. I gonna cut and paste it so I can refer to it and integrate it. Your concision is a delight and your scope there precisely what I needed to know. Thankyou so much.

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    Default Re: Exhausting good karma.

    Quote When I woke up this mornin' I felt a pang.
    I was hungerin' for some apple pie.
    Stumble in the bathroom, hung my hog a little bit.
    Washed the sleep out of my eye.
    Oh yeah, it's gonna be a fine day.
    Scratched myself a bit.
    Poured me out a bowl-a corn chex.
    Closest thing I could find to apple pie.
    Lingerin' taste of toothpaste
    Made the milk go down a bit funny.
    But you know, them chex they do satisfy.
    Oh yeah, this'll be a fine day.
    So, after my mornin' rise-n-shine and eat-n-clean.
    Had my mind set to hit them streets.
    Drizzle from the night left cold puddles out.
    [From: http://www.elyrics.net/read/p/primus...ay-lyrics.html ]
    Had my black stomp-boots on my feet.
    It's my day.

    Since I was in kneepants my pop had tried to make me realize.
    If I set my mind down to it I could be a big man in the public eye.
    So with my big blue collar on, I set out to find the easy way.
    What an ice cold bath it was when I found you had to pay to play.
    To taste the taste it's a tease that never would subside.
    The taste is strong but soured by my learned eyes.
    Well, if a woodchuck could chuck wood, he'd get down on his knees to pray.
    This little snappy boy might see the light this ground hog's day.




    This sounds like groundhogs day to me.

    Quote Exhausting good karma.

    Karma is a word used to describe the results of causes and effect created by our reactions and intentions. It is stored in the eighth consciousness of the mind: it's the software. Because we hold onto ideas about ourselves, we constantly add or maintain this self image. Therefore we go round in circles, and the same things keep happening to us...in our world!

    So whatever occurs in the present moment - physical or mental - is a product of the past. It was karmically created.
    If we 're-act', we keep the whole process going.
    If we do not 're-act', no karma is created.
    “Bundinn er bátlaus maður”

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    Default Re: Exhausting good karma.

    Dear 13th

    In Groundhog Day, he learned to love and that was what broke the repeating cycle

    Lots of love (that will just go on repeating...)
    Tony

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    Default Re: Exhausting good karma.

    Quote Posted by pie'n'eal (here)
    Dear 13th

    In Groundhog Day, he learned to love and that was what broke the repeating cycle

    Lots of love (that will just go on repeating...)
    Tony
    Lots of "love" repeating...like lots of good "karma" repeating...can one word be replaced with the other?
    “Bundinn er bátlaus maður”

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    Default Re: Exhausting good karma.

    Quote Posted by 13th Warrior (here)
    Quote Posted by pie'n'eal (here)
    Dear 13th

    In Groundhog Day, he learned to love and that was what broke the repeating cycle

    Lots of love (that will just go on repeating...)
    Tony
    Lots of "love" repeating...like lots of good "karma" repeating...can one word be replaced with the other?
    Yes! Actually, that's a brilliant idea!!
    Because love means you are considering the other person more than yourself, and that is compassion - and therefore you are not producing bad karma.

    However (you knew that was coming, didn't you ?!) unconditional compassion won't be out to make the other person feel good about themselves.
    Unconditional compassion has no expectations of anything in return to benefit you. The action is dropped immediately, without and clinging: it is complete in itself.
    Rather, it will be dealing directly with ego's games and therefore no karma is produced.

    There are 4 "enlightened activities":
    Pacifiying
    Magnetising
    Enriching
    Destroying

    I'll write more about those tomorrow.
    Nice chatting with you!
    Tony
    Last edited by Tony; 17th January 2012 at 20:24.

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    Default Re: Exhausting good karma.

    Hi Pie'n'eal,

    yes indeed, that is some good stuff. I don't often 'decide' to listen carefully when someone speaks, but you got me hooked...thanks

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    Default Re: Exhausting good karma.

    "However (you knew that was coming, didn't you ?!) unconditional compassion won't be out to make the other person feel good about themselves.
    Unconditional compassion has no expectations of anything in return to benefit you. The action is dropped immediately, without and clinging: it is complete in itself.
    Rather, it will be dealing directly with ego's games and therefore no karma is produced."

    I had a relationship like that once...it lasted about two weeks...not really, the relationship produced the only incarnation of unconditional love that I've ever experienced...my daughter.

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    Default Re: Exhausting good karma.

    Quote Posted by pie'n'eal (here)

    I'll write more about those tomorrow.

    *intense emotion of gladness*


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    Default Re: Exhausting good karma.

    Quote In deciding who is the do'er I find myself with three possibilities for identifying the perpetrator

    a) That which I am

    b) That which I am not

    c) Of the infinite set of all, which encompasses both A and B.

    Those lucky people that find this easy, may have concluded that A is created in the image of B, so they are in a way the same; so 'C' may be choice.

    Those people identifying with the self, will choose A

    Those people recognizing B as a mirror of A are free to choose A or B

    What do you choose?
    Im a great beleiver in Karma, snowball great ananlogy, however it comprises more than A or B or C. If only it was so easy to understand. I think if it was, there would be no bad karma. Karma would have packed its bags and left.However they are still around. That which you are, & that which you arn't can so easily be changed on a daily basis, if not hourly basis. If you go with either A or B you will always be stuck there, C is infinity if that is where you place it, however infinity is all the letters. A-Z So the snowball can start at A & go hurling downwards to Z. When you next see A it will remind you of B-Z'.

    Quote So whatever occurs in the present moment - physical or mental - is a product of the past. It was karmically created.
    If we 're-act', we keep the whole process going.
    If we do not 're-act', no karma is created
    Here's whats allways made me wonder about Karma, it can be 'good' or 'bad' depending how you view it. So is Karma Naughty or Nice? If we react we keep 'Karma' going, if don't react we keep 'Karma' going. As the past-future future-past. If 'Karma' can travel at the speed of light to send you its message it has to reside in you past, present and future. What being can do that? Un-less of course it is a being that is beyond the realms of time.

    Quote Intense intelligence
    Intense compassion
    Intense emotions
    Well you've found me, however ive done away with these classifications as i dont view thyself as just these things lol

    [QUOTE]There is the realization that there are no personal events and life happens for you not to you.
    You are the totality all of it --- there is no individual self.
    The illusion is a belief in the individual self.
    Ramesh Balsekar (Advaita Sage) said. The biggest obstacle to enlightenment is the thought that you are the doer.
    The ego cant stand that and lays claim to being the author of your life.

    If life happens for 'me' i would say it is deceptive as it makes me view life as a gift that has been handed to me, whether we re:incarnate or not to learn the path to enlightenment, we are a beleiver of its 'lessons'. We could follow its 'path' & end up in 'hell' sorry i know that upsets people's equalibrims, however you can remain in 'purgatory' forever and ever. Karmaic effect will always do battle with your wills, however once you don't even see 'good or bad' or think you have control over it at all, you stop seeing any karma at all.

    Quote am still trying to come to terms with the concept that I have no free will.
    I am so pleased that you are, please never come to terms with this, anything that takes your freedom away is never going to give you enlightenment. Will-Intent Two separate things, you can will somebody to do something, however they might not want or need to do it. This is where you have to think about what your intentions are, for 'self' or 'fellow self'? Who makes you the judge? If you never intend you were never intending in the first place, as your intention changed from Intending to not Intending. When we say 'Oh i fully intended' we are lying to 'self'

    Quote I can accept that the God's will flows through the sages but I query that everything I do is the will of God.
    Quite rightly so, if you accept this it takes responsiblity from 'self' onto an unknown 'entity' and this is not what its message is.

    Quote When I said “intense emotions,” I was speaking from the Vajrayana perspective, where one has no fear of the emotions
    It won't have fears as the ''intense emotions'' are not or do not exist at all, devaluing why we have 'intense emotions' dumbing down if you like? Would you not say thats a fair assumption. If i no longer have emotion, of any kind whatsoever i am nothing. As all our emotions good/bad are part of this existence, the key is to not try and get rid of them or not see them, certainly you should not 'use' your emotions or try an avoid them, nor shold you have to protect them, emotions are just part of being alive, there is no way to get past them, however once you realise they are just there for a reason you certainly get passed the 'ego' of them.
    Last edited by nf857; 17th January 2012 at 21:51.

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    Default Re: Exhausting good karma.

    Quote Posted by nf857 (here)
    Im a great beleiver in Karma, snowball great ananlogy, however it comprises more than A or B or C. If only it was so easy to understand. I think if it was, there would be no bad karma. Karma would have packed its bags and left.However they are still around. That which you are, & that which you arn't can so easily be changed on a daily basis, if not hourly basis. If you go with either A or B you will always be stuck there, C is infinity if that is where you place it, however infinity is all the letters. A-Z So the snowball can start at A & go hurling downwards to Z. When you next see A it will remind you of B-Z'.
    Excellent. Thanks for that, next time I will amend my analogy - it may be too basic.

    The problem I find when trying to describe my thoughts on this, is the ever present infinite aspect to what we are and are not; and it changes the rules, and makes it very hard to articulate.

    I think your snowball turned into a ball-bearing in a pin-ball machine
    -- Let the truth be known by all, let the truth be known by all, let the truth be known by all --

  38. The Following User Says Thank You to Anchor For This Post:

    Tony (18th January 2012)

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    Default Re: Exhausting good karma.

    Quote Mirror-like = Clarity/precision = Anger = I don't like
    Discriminating = Selfless appreciation = Desire = I want
    Equality = Generosity = Pride = I am better
    Accomplishing = Efficiency without ambition = Jealousy = I am worse
    Encompassing = Spaciousness = Ignorance = I don't care

    However the bigger picture is that Mirror-like is equal to' I Don't Like', thereby when we see ourselves like/dislike are at a battle of wills with each other. Discriminting is equal to I Don't Like, Equality is equal to I Am Better, Accomplishing is Equal to 'I am Worse', Encompassing is equal to 'I Don't Care' Thereby doing will with each other, once you realise that you are at battle with yourself, you can take away these equations.

    If i no longer analyse what i see in the mirror i am no longer at battle with my ego, if i no longer discriminate i no longer hate, if i dont see anybody as anything as lesser than me i no longer think im better than anyone (equality), If i have accomplished something i see myself as worse before i accomplished it, Encompassing things means i no longer care. Stop battling your wills.
    QUOTE]Mirror-like = Clarity/precision = Anger = I don't like
    Discriminating = Selfless appreciation = Desire = I want
    Equality = Generosity = Pride = I am better
    Accomplishing = Efficiency without ambition = Jealousy = I am worse
    Encompassing = Spaciousness = Ignorance = I don't care

    However the bigger picture is that Mirror-like is equal to' I Don't Like', thereby when we see ourselves like/dislike are at a battle of wills with each other. Discriminting is equal to I Don't Like, Equality is equal to I Am Better, Accomplishing is Equal to 'I am Worse', Encompassing is equal to 'I Don't Care' Thereby doing will with each other, once you realise that you are at battle with yourself, you can take away these equations.

    If i no longer analyse what i see in the mirror i am no longer at battle with my ego, if i no longer discriminate i no longer hate, if i dont see anybody as anything as lesser than me i no longer think im better than anyone (equality), If i have accomplished something i see myself as worse before i accomplished it, Encompassing things means i no longer care. Stop battling your wills.
    [/QUOTE]

  40. The Following User Says Thank You to nf857 For This Post:

    Tony (18th January 2012)

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