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Thread: Tell me about karma

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    Finland Avalon Member Ultima Thule's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Tell me about karma

    Fill me in according to your perspectives in relation to this crude example, if it feels appropriate I might drop in some other scenarios:

    If there is a criminal that has killed many and is about to do some more killing and I am in the position to kill him, what is going to go down with me "Karma-vise"? Am I excused of any karma accumulating due to me committing an act of killing, because it is for a greater good and the criminal had it coming? Or am I to face karmic consequences just the same as I would killing an innocent being?

    UT

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    Default Re: Tell me about karma

    Karma is self-accusation, so you pretty much make up your mind for yourself.

    All those other scenarios too.

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    Default Re: Tell me about karma

    I agree with Mark. I use to believe that if a person was intentionally killed by someone that the killer had to pay in another life....sort of like each person decided to come here and experience everything they go through knowing how it would be. Neither are true imo. The Jews of WWII were not here to watch their children die in a gas chamber.

    To me the biggest argument is this....what if an off-world non-human race killed all humans on earth and inhabited our planet. Would we then incarnate within their society and bodies since a common conception is we are attached to the planet of which we die? Would we take on their traits of domination? Traits tend to follow genetic lines and perhaps our souls/consciousness only adapts to what it animates/occupies.

    Another thought is what if the past lives we do remember are simple programming, like writing a history into a computer browser that never really occurred. The human consciousness may be a product of the brain even though it can leave the body but no different than flying a remote controlled airplane. The universal mind experience may also be an induced experience by those controlling the petri dish. Are we true life forms or simply a biological computer with programming making it think it is alive?

    Rich

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    Default Re: Tell me about karma

    You could really really be enjoying the nastiest karma you've ever been working off. There's no way to even guess what 'correction' might need to look like.

    But when your cause and effect get close enough together, you pause and consider making selfish decisions.

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    Default Re: Tell me about karma

    Karma comes in doses, and you can burn up karma too by serving, suffering and acts of kindness.
    When you kill someone ''innocent'' -> lots of karma
    When you kill a killer -> lots of karma
    When you kill a killer in self-defence-> not so much karma
    When you restrain a killer from more killing without harming-> no karma
    When you forgive the killer and act in kindness-> burn karma.

    It also varies with consciousness of the deeds you do;
    When doing bad things in the fullest possible consciousness you're basically a karma magnet and you are going to live in hell, this life or one of the next.
    Also when you die and have accumulated a lot of karma and enter the soul slumber, your soul will manifest itself on the lower planes of the 4th dimension, because you have low vibration, due to bad karma and general low consciousness. (and it ain't pretty there)
    Last edited by GaelVictor; 2nd February 2012 at 12:48.
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    Default Re: Tell me about karma

    What's being corrected is the imbalance of fear or contraction, and a natural condition which is expansion. Like a bladder sucking in or blowing out, it gets exercised to greater elasticity.
    There's no more judgement in it than that.

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    Default Re: Tell me about karma

    Quote Posted by Oouthere (here)
    I agree with Mark. I use to believe that if a person was intentionally killed by someone that the killer had to pay in another life....sort of like each person decided to come here and experience everything they go through knowing how it would be. Neither are true imo. The Jews of WWII were not here to watch their children die in a gas chamber.
    Rich
    Aurelia Louise Jones once told in a course a fascinating idea: the spanish conquistador and the southern american victims of theirs switched later in many instances places -> southern america at some time was quite slummed and the spirituality rose quite high in spain. Ie. what if the souls of the jews killed come back to germany to enjoy the benefits of that country and the germans guilty spend some time in imprisonment and oppression somewhere else?
    Just a thought.
    UT

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    Quote Posted by Oouthere (here)
    Another thought is what if the past lives we do remember are simple programming, like writing a history into a computer browser that never really occurred. The human consciousness may be a product of the brain even though it can leave the body but no different than flying a remote controlled airplane. The universal mind experience may also be an induced experience by those controlling the petri dish. Are we true life forms or simply a biological computer with programming making it think it is alive?

    Rich
    Indeed - am I sentient and eternal or am I the android that dreams of electric sheep - do I build up a story and memories to make meaning to my existence?
    UT
    Last edited by Ultima Thule; 2nd February 2012 at 13:29. Reason: opyt

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    Default Re: Tell me about karma

    Or what if they all meet up and recognize each other and become best friends??

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    Default Re: Tell me about karma

    Quote Posted by Hatemachines (here)
    Karma comes in doses, and you can burn up karma too by serving, suffering and acts of kindness.
    When you kill someone ''innocent'' -> lots of karma
    When you kill a killer -> lots of karma
    When you kill a killer in self-defence-> not so much karma
    When you restrain a killer from more killing without harming-> no karma
    When you forgive the killer and act in kindness-> burn karma.
    Sounds reasonable and well organized - I could live with that. However for the sake of studying karma I ask: where do you base your opinion?

    What if you have no choice but to kill the killer thus preventing more harm with no chance of restraining? Is it possible that what you do in this life has been already balanced before? Is it possible that by killing you are only equalizing the game?
    UT
    Last edited by Ultima Thule; 2nd February 2012 at 13:28.

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    Australia Avalon Member Anchor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tell me about karma

    Quote Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
    Fill me in according to your perspectives in relation to this crude example, if it feels appropriate I might drop in some other scenarios:

    If there is a criminal that has killed many and is about to do some more killing and I am in the position to kill him, what is going to go down with me "Karma-vise"? Am I excused of any karma accumulating due to me committing an act of killing, because it is for a greater good and the criminal had it coming? Or am I to face karmic consequences just the same as I would killing an innocent being?
    Fun stuff.

    First let me define what I mean by Karma, since I think that there are many variations on a theme.

    Consequent to a freewill intent- any thought which we create (or any creation we think), any act we do, word we speak - anything that follows from the impetus given by our creative mind by that intent, starts a motion in the fabric of the universe with something like inertia - and it is that inertia which I think is directly referred to in the concept of karma. The karma creates the associated distortions that set up the means by which karma's effects will play out in the universe. The universe is forever changed as a consequence of our creative act.

    In some cases, that inertia can run-amok causing effects that we may see as entirely separate from that root cause, and indeed we may loose sight of the sequence, it being too subtle for our finite minds - indeed lasting beyond our physical incarnations.

    And as a snowball running down the hill gets larger, the cascade of cause and effect can often be such that the consequences can take on a "life" of their own - especially if we unwittingly persist in rolling that snowball.

    Even if the ball escapes us and continues its own merry way, we remain responsible for all that we create.

    This inertia can be neutralized.

    Quote Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
    If there is a criminal that has killed many and is about to do some more killing and I am in the position to kill him, what is going to go down with me "Karma-vise"?
    If you intend to kill him and you kill him, you will infringe on the freewill of the killer, and you will create karmic consequence in so doing... that will need to be balanced.

    Quote Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
    Am I excused of any karma accumulating due to me committing an act of killing, because it is for a greater good and the criminal had it coming?
    No. I know this because no-one is excused from karma.

    Anyway, how do you know it is for the greater good. Who made you judge, jury and executioner? Did the criminal ask you to judge him and kill him? Was it expected?

    Self defence and the even defence of others, even to the extent of offence - is at times necessary, but don't think for one minute that you will not see karma play its part for your actions nor any other of those capable of creating and/or initiating action under freewill.

    Hypothetical examples are a stretch and unrealistic. You will encounter only those situations in your life that you need to encounter - so the situation are very personal and measured, therefore so are the opportunities for karma creation.

    Quote Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
    Or am I to face karmic consequences just the same as I would killing an innocent being?
    You would create karma for yourself.

    I wouldn't say it would be the same as killing an "innocent" being.

    I think of Karma as an aspect of the mechanics of the fabric of our co-creation/reality/illusion. It spawns from the resolution of all the vectors of energy in an action, taking into account the infinitely subtle situations and factors and thereby causing the measure of distortion in your illusion of reality which is your karma (for that action).

    I don't thing karma is summed up as such. You likely have many threads of karma woven into the fabric of your situation.

    It would be worth pondering how to stop karma that is set in motion - I think it is a much more important subject than the fact and mechanics of karma, and that is forgiveness.

    Forgiveness is the key to stopping the wheel of karma.

    When we say "oh its because of my karma" I translate that into "my life is being distorted by the effects of my karma" and we have the capacity to heal those distortions, if we are fortunate enough to note them properly in the first place.

    We should note, that karma is neither good nor bad - however - due to our current conditionings and mind sets we often discuss karma in negative contexts. It cuts both ways. I am a highly positive person, so to finish on a positive note I want to just remind you "good karma" is much nicer
    Last edited by Anchor; 2nd February 2012 at 13:35.
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    Default Re: Tell me about karma

    Quote Posted by markpierre (here)
    Or what if they all meet up and recognize each other and become best friends??
    Another fine scenario - I end up neighbors with a person that I have massive karma in between and I reconcile my karmic issues by owning and borrowing of extensive set of household tools and go bowling with the guy and always support him and lend an ear?
    UT

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    Default Re: Tell me about karma

    Thanks Anchor, a fine post!
    Your description of karmic events oscillating in time and space reminds me of driving a car in slippery environment - minus 26 degree centigrade at the moment, not a lot to do here - you make an error in steering and if you panic and correct it with overtly manner, your car will end up the other side of the road, in the woods that is... The key to steering well is subtle movements and waiting to see what has transpired from your last action, that will keep you on the road.

    The reason I picked up that particular hypothetical situation is because I have been interested in the differing views of should a person take strong action or not and whether one of them is better over the other one. In this case raising the question of do I let it play out or do I take action.

    In fact: is taking action the first thing that initially got the ball rolling?
    UT
    Last edited by Ultima Thule; 2nd February 2012 at 13:44.

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    Default Re: Tell me about karma

    Quote Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
    In this case raising the question of do I let it play out or do I take action.
    Follow your heart.

    There are no mistakes and everything is perfect.

    Each situation presents you with a choice. Karma may eventuate, but thats ok too.

    The review of actions taken provides the opportunity to further act if necessary to address any undesired karma.

    Either way, you choose, you act, stuff happens, you experience, you get wiser.

    Its only a mistake if you think it is, or accept the advise of another in that judgement - and even that is up to you.

    Ī=[Post Update]=Ī

    ----------

    Quote Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
    In fact: is taking action the first thing that initially got the ball rolling?
    Yes. (For that action... each action, new ball...)
    Those of the positive polarity are of service when by action or thought or even intention, another entity or the self is freer to seek his or her own path than before the intended service was performed. --L/Leema

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    Default Re: Tell me about karma

    Quote Posted by Anchor (here)
    Quote Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
    In this case raising the question of do I let it play out or do I take action.
    Follow your heart.

    There are no mistakes and everything is perfect.

    Each situation presents you with a choice. Karma may eventuate, but thats ok too.
    [COLOR="red"]
    I can relate to that.
    I will however ponder it a bit more:if everything is perfect and there are no mistakes, what is my role in that context? If I have a choice like in this example of mine, where I can either let the killer go about his business and kill some more, or given chance stop him by killing him - are you suggesting by perfect that eventually every choice is perfect, whether you take action or donīt. Is it all down to me or you choosing in-between which way to go on our way back to unity - do I take a detour in eventuating karma and therefore explore some sidetracks or do I aim for a more straightforward route?

    UT
    Last edited by Ultima Thule; 2nd February 2012 at 13:57.

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    Default Re: Tell me about karma

    Quote Posted by Anchor (here)
    Yes. (For that action... each action, new ball...)
    So in essence once there was nothing but there was unity - letīs say god - and basically the first thing he invented when going into separation was a ball. Boy will soccer-fans love this! Everything is a game, but ask any serious soccer fan how serious a game it is, and one gets an idea of the name of the karmic game.

    How do you feel about free will? Does one exercise free will over how one chooses to resolve karmic issues in given lifetime?

    UT
    Last edited by Ultima Thule; 2nd February 2012 at 14:03.

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    Default Re: Tell me about karma

    The 'right' thing to do (what you need to do, or actually do) might be the wrong thing according to your belief system. Oooh, that's a toughy.

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    Default Re: Tell me about karma

    Quote Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
    what is my role in that context?
    To act, to choose, to experience, to be.

    Quote Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
    If I have a choice like in this example of mine, where I can either let the killer go about his business and kill some more, or given chance stop him by killing him - are you suggesting by perfect that eventually every choice is perfect, whether you take action or donīt.
    It is perfect from the unity perspective, not from your experiential filtered perspective. One may however take comfort in the former, especially is one acts in the knowledge that all-is-one.

    Quote Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
    Is it all down to me or you choosing in-between which way to go on our way back to unity - do I take a detour in eventuating karma and therefore explore some sidetracks or do I aim for a more straightforward route?
    Whatever you like

    Quote Posted by Ultima Thule (here)
    So in essence once there was nothing but there was unity - letīs say god - and basically the first thing he invented when going into separation was a ball. Boy will soccer-fans love this! Everything is a game, but ask any serious soccer fan how serious a game it is, and one gets an idea of the name of the karmic game.

    How do you feel about free will? Does one exercise free will over how one chooses to resolve karmic issues in given lifetime?
    Freewill isn't something I feel about. It is a simple fact. I have it, and you have it. Situations where-in others may infringe upon it are often karmic in nature - catalysts for learning/re-learning/experiencing that which is necessary.

    To resolve a karmic issue, you first have to know that you have one

    You can do whatever you want and feel and judge to be appropriate. It is freewill that gives you the choice to do that.

    John..

    PS: Goodnight from me ! Its very late here, this has kept me up
    Those of the positive polarity are of service when by action or thought or even intention, another entity or the self is freer to seek his or her own path than before the intended service was performed. --L/Leema

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    Default Re: Tell me about karma

    Quote Posted by markpierre (here)
    The 'right' thing to do (what you need to do, or actually do) might be the wrong thing according to your belief system. Oooh, that's a toughy.
    As you discover and resolve karma, you see the greatest teacher of all letting you know what is what and what is the actual truth of the matter
    Those of the positive polarity are of service when by action or thought or even intention, another entity or the self is freer to seek his or her own path than before the intended service was performed. --L/Leema

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    Default Re: Tell me about karma

    Quote Posted by Anchor (here)
    Quote Posted by markpierre (here)
    The 'right' thing to do (what you need to do, or actually do) might be the wrong thing according to your belief system. Oooh, that's a toughy.
    As you discover and resolve karma, you see the greatest teacher of all letting you know what is what and what is the actual truth of the matter
    That might have zero influence on your decision.

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    Default Re: Tell me about karma

    The least I can do, or anyone else, is sit back and let the world be as it is, untouched, and resolve as much kharma before imminent death. but what is collective kharma...?
    “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.”-Sinclair Lewis
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    http://www.josephstiglitz.com/

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