Fear and Loathing in PA: Fear is the mindkiller

[Mark]

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. ~ Bene Gesserit Litany against Fear, Dune, Frank Herbert

The human condition, to a greater or lesser degree, is one that we all share. Sans psychopaths and perhaps some others, most of us experience fear. Sometimes we experience fear and we don't really recognize it. One example of that is anger.

All anger is based upon fear.

If you react in anger you are showing your fear.

The way to understand this most clearly is to think about what got you angry. Go back to the exact instance the anger started and notice what your feeling was at that time. What you were afraid of.

Sometimes we are afraid of being wrong. Sometimes we are afraid of someone else being right. Sometimes we are afraid of missing out on something. Sometimes we are afraid of being revealed. Sometimes we are just afraid.

Sarcasm is an expression of repressed anger. It is a weapon of mass destruction. Even more insidious than anger, which is like the wind, blasting through a street. Sarcasm observes and wrecks intellectual and emotional havoc that can be just as devastating as a fit of rage.

I get angry. I get really angry. I get sarcastic. I get really sarcastic. Beneath it all, is my fear. Fear of different things: of being wrong, of being right, of being rejected, of being accepted. Contradictory but existent.

How can we not despair and get depressed when we are trying to figure out how to get out of these negative patterns? Depression is anger turned inward, they say. Again, back to the root, which is fear.

The problem is, our synapses and neural nets have been programmed by our thought processes. We are used to responding in anger, in sarcasm. We are used to being suspicious, negative. We think we are protecting ourselves this way. That we are stopping ourselves from experiencing even more pain, even more hurt.

Neurons that fire together wire together, that guy from What the Bleep said. Our anger becomes our expression, our hypothalamuses eject anger neuro-peptides in abundance which suffuse our cells, which then become unable to take in nutrients, which speed up the aging process, which distorts and deforms our faces, our smiles become crooked and cynical, we look out upon the world through jaded eyes, our bodies bend, we spit venom and hate and we die.

We read and hear and understand and know that all of this is true, but we cannot address is directly. Pride is related to anger too. Which leads us back to Fear yet again. We cannot comment on it, we cannot admit our shortcomings. We cannot seek another way because the way we are is comfortable. We're used to it. This is life. We all have to die anyway.

Right?

Is there another way? Can we allow the fear to pass through us? If we can, who are we then? If we are no longer defined by the way we used to act, how are we supposed to act then?

This is a piece I did on this topic a while back:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=NxSYzjDEAWs

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=NxSYz...el_video_title

Big ups and RIP to Frank Herbert. Fear is the Mindkiller.

[Mulder]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)

How can we not despair and get depressed when we are trying to figure out how to get out of these negative patterns? Depression is anger turned inward, they say. Again, back to the root, which is fear.

Hi, I disagree that depression is anger turned inward. Depression has been shown to result from chemical imbalances in the brain. Some drugs which re-balance these chemicals have been shown to reduce depression. Whether or not this chemical imbalance results from fear turned inward is impossible to know. so I'm saying depression can be resulting from an illness, not the way you handle anger.

[Mark]

Posted by Mulder (here)
Hi, I disagree that depression is anger turned inward. Depression has been shown to result from chemical imbalances in the brain. Some drugs which re-balance these chemicals have been shown to reduce depression. Whether or not this chemical imbalance results from fear turned inward is impossible to know. so I'm saying depression can be resulting from an illness, not the way you handle anger.

Thank you for sharing. As quiet as it's kept, humans have the potential to control their bodies, to control their chemical emissions. As I stated above, our mental state controls the release of chemicals that result in the rush of emotions that we feel. I understand the illness part of depression. There are a lot of things that are considered illnesses now that, in previous time periods, were considered more to be spiritual malaises. I might hazard a guess that depression does have some spiritual characteristics as well.

Regardless, my original statements remain valid. I did not create this thread to argue semantics, as I want to concentrate on the underlying point. If you google the statement, "depression is anger turned inward", you will come upon quite a few pages that speak about it in much more detail.

[Mulder]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)

Posted by Mulder (here)
Hi, I disagree that depression is anger turned inward. Depression has been shown to result from chemical imbalances in the brain. Some drugs which re-balance these chemicals have been shown to reduce depression. Whether or not this chemical imbalance results from fear turned inward is impossible to know. so I'm saying depression can be resulting from an illness, not the way you handle anger.

Thank you for sharing. As quiet as it's kept, humans have the potential to control their bodies, to control their chemical emissions. As I stated above, our mental state controls the release of chemicals that result in the rush of emotions that we feel. I understand the illness part of depression. There are a lot of things that are considered illnesses now that, in previous time periods, were considered more to be spiritual malaises. I might hazard a guess that depression does have some spiritual characteristics as well.

Regardless, my original statements remain valid. I did not create this thread to argue semantics, as I want to concentrate on the underlying point. If you google the statement, "depression is anger turned inward", you will come upon quite a few pages that speak about it in much more detail.

Thank you for your wisdom. I feel there are many types of depression, for example the DSM4 defines some depressions with a psychosis and other depressions without it. I was talking about clinical depression which is an illness and really destroys a person's ability to work and live. For example, Virginia Woolf at times couldn't eat her dinner as she was so depressed - her husband had to feed her. I'm worried about telling people with severe illness that they need to "change their thinking" to cure themselves. This can be seen as blaming them for their illness they can't control. For example, someone with a broken leg would never be told to "cheer up" or "get yourself together", but too often people with depression are told this.

[Mark]

I understand, but you need not worry. This thread is not about depression per say and to make it about that is to take it off-topic. Thank you again for your contribution to the thread.

[NancyV]

I've thought for many decades about fear. When I was in my teens and 20's I seemed to be driven to seek out situations where I would be in great danger so I could experience and overcome fear. Did I overcome it? Not completely, but in a way...yes. I've reached the point where fear is recognized as a human body/mind response to certain stimuli and I no longer fear feeling fear!

When I've been in life threatening or painful situations, like being abducted, beat up, raped, imprisoned, etc. I have the ability to put aside the majority of my fear and go immediately into a state where my mind speeds up and considers within a minute or less all the possible actions I can take and all the possible outcomes of those actions. Then I make a decision and act on it. Sometimes the decision involves violence, sometimes deception, sometimes surrender. If one action does not work I quickly move on to another, adapting to the outcome of each action.

Since I lived in Mexico for several years and part of the time was an undercover contract DEA agent there and in South America, I was in a lot of dangerous situations so I got a lot of practice in dealing with fear. I came to the same conclusion that you did about anger covering fear. I found that anger was much preferable to fear but the best emotional state I could achieve was a detached logic which accepted that death or pain was a likely outcome in certain situations. It was these situations that helped me develop more detachment.... so I would not change anything about my life as it all lead to who I am today. I have also read almost all of Frank Herbert's books starting in about 1966 when I read Dune. I began avidly devouring science fiction at about 6 years old in 1953. "Fear is the Mind Killer" became a favorite mantra of mine in dangerous physical situations and later in the occasional scary out of body situation. Fear is alive and well in other dimensions/densities until you finally overcome it completely. For me it took complete surrender to death and to God/Source.

My present husband has given me his perspective on fear since he was in Vietnam and later a counter terrorist. He's been shot and stabbed, had many broken bones and fought in many conflicts. He seems like the most fearless person I have ever known because he's the type who will charge when the odds are astronomically against success. He told me that all soldiers feel fear, even those who seem fearless or pretend to have no fear. He feels fear but he puts it aside and acts despite his fear. He feels no shame related to experiencing fear.

The most fearless I ever am is when I surrender to death, because I know there is no death. My soul knows it is eternal. My mind knows my soul is eternal. I no longer let the occasional knee jerk fears of my human body/mind bother me as they are transitory. They can also be quite amusing, especially if you consider yourself to be somewhat spiritually evolved and if you think an evolved being should feel no fear. Laughter always pushes fear away! Fear of being fearful is no longer a fear of mine!

[Miller]

I guess then that along the line:

fear ______________v________________ love

all emotions falling before the v are fear-based and all those after the v are loved based (I think we know what they are although Dr David Hawkins calibrates them all in this way) .

First of all I confess that often my first reaction to any upset is anger. I have always recognised this as fear and a substitute for tears but it just happens without thinking, like scratching an itch and no time for strategies. I then confront and attack, the first (I will face my fear as per the video) and the second is fear based again, although I'm glad when it has the desired effect. It's also fear that stops me from taking that short cut through the park at night, so it doesn't always have a negative outcome.

[Mark]

Nancy, what a gem of a post. Thank you so much for choosing to share your wisdom here. A few comments and high fives:

Posted by NancyV (here)
I have the ability to put aside the majority of my fear and go immediately into a state where my mind speeds up and considers within a minute or less all the possible actions I can take and all the possible outcomes of those actions. Then I make a decision and act on it.

Yes. Very well described. This ability has to be something that is cultivated consciously and that can only be done by overcoming the paralysis that accompanies the fear response. While your life experiences are amazing and beyond the norm, people can approximate them to an extent in their own lives and do. Any situation where fear is felt is an opportunity to overcome it. Public speaking, standing up for yourself to a bully, even going outside can be opportunities to confront fear and learn to function beyond it.

Posted by NancyV (here)
I have also read almost all of Frank Herbert's books starting in about 1966 when I read Dune. I began avidly devouring science fiction at about 6 years old in 1953. "Fear is the Mind Killer" became a favorite mantra of mine in dangerous physical situations and later in the occasional scary out of body situation. Fear is alive and well in other dimensions/densities until you finally overcome it completely. For me it took complete surrender to death and to God/Source.

As you can tell by the video I posted below the OP, I have found the litany against fear to be useful in my life as well. Overcoming fear is the necessary component in being able to reach those other dimensions/densities, as the attempt to do so through oobes/astrally must pass through a gauntlet of sorts comprised of entities who are there to scare the living bejesus out of you and keep you firmly planted in your body.

Posted by NancyV (here)
He told me that all soldiers feel fear, even those who seem fearless or pretend to have no fear. He feels fear but he puts it aside and acts despite his fear. He feels no shame related to experiencing fear.

Very true. Soldiers face their fears together and fight for each other moreso than any abstract concepts of nation or patriotism. You two are the epitome of the term "power couple".

Posted by NancyV (here)
The most fearless I ever am is when I surrender to death, because I know there is no death. My soul knows it is eternal. My mind knows my soul is eternal. I no longer let the occasional knee jerk fears of my human body/mind bother me as they are transitory. They can also be quite amusing, especially if you consider yourself to be somewhat spiritually evolved and if you think an evolved being should feel no fear. Laughter always pushes fear away! Fear of being fearful is no longer a fear of mine!

How inspiring. If you're the last poster on this thread, I consider its purpose served. Thank you again for giving of yourself in this moment and in this space to share, with us.

[Mark]

Posted by w1ndmill (here)
First of all I confess that often my first reaction to any upset is anger.

Hey, did I see you at the meeting last week??? Hi everybody, my name is ... LOL

Posted by w1ndmill (here)
I have always recognised this as fear and a substitute for tears but it just happens without thinking, like scratching an itch and no time for strategies. I then confront and attack, the first (I will face my fear as per the video) and the second is fear based again, although I'm glad when it has the desired effect.

I understand. I think I was about 9 or 10 years old when I realized that there was a gap between thought and action. That there was a moment where it was possible to make a choice about how I was going to respond. Because it had become clear to me by that point that, to be like other people, it was necessary for me to respond in a manner they thought appropriate. And so I remember making a choice at a very young age that I was going to act like other people and get upset, lash out, be sarcastic, cut, do the things that society shows us are the 'normal' responses.

Before the fear takes hold of readers, no, I'm not a psychopath. I am an empath for the most part, but I do recall doing this. Perhaps all children do it? I do not know. When we take on these patterns we are, in a large sense, conforming with the normative behavior of those around us. I question whether that is the proper course of action when immersed within a sick society. But we had no choice, did we. And did not even know we had no choice. Fear is familiar. Pretty much everybody else is afraid, who are we to think we can be different?? And don't people attack individuals who are different? Cast them out??

So we age, continuing the patterns we learned in childhood, until we make a different choice. But before we make that choice, we have to be aware. We have to admit to ourselves that we have built this edifice, our personalities, based upon erroneous beliefs about the nature of who and what we are and what this world is.

Posted by w1ndmill (here)
It's also fear that stops me from taking that short cut through the park at night, so it doesn't always have a negative outcome.

Common sense is never a bad thing. Differentiating between real fear and imagined fear is paramount. But what if the park is safe? Was that fear useful, then?

[another bob]

“What will be left of all the fearing and wanting associated with your problematic life situation that every day takes up most of your attention?
A dash, one or two inches long, between the date of birth and date of death on your gravestone.”

~Eckhart Tolle

[Mark]

An extraordinarily in-depth and penetrating discourse, AB. Thank you for your contribution, Sir!

Of course, Mr. Tolle's insight is always on point. Bless.

[realitycorrodes]

Remove the root program of "physical pain" and ye shall see all fear disappear! Focus on what is important and obvious. Pursuing fear as if it is the root cause is a disinformation.

[Mark]

Posted by realitycorrodes (here)
Remove the root program of "physical pain" and ye shall see all fear disappear!

I like that, it seems to address the source. Does all fear come from an experience of "physical pain"?

Posted by realitycorrodes (here)
Focus on what is important and obvious. Pursuing fear as if it is the root cause is a disinformation.

Please explain further? What do you mean, disinformation?

[Tommy]

Thanks for the thread Rahkyt,

I just posted the below on another thread and thought it might fit here as well, beg my pardon if it does not

Posted by seeingterra (here)
Some words from me to the individuals it resonates with.

- First, no one can save yourself from "your-self" except "yourself".
No Bill Brockbrader, no Kerry Cassidy, no Bill Ryan, no Tommy Hansen, no one, or even two..

- How you focus your energies (positive, negative, etc) creates the foundation of your personal future.
It also defines how people view you on a forum or otherwise.

- Respect. Respect for everything and everyone around you, physical or not.

- You can not deceive others without deceiving yourself.

- Judgement. Judge yourself before judging others.

- The other cheek: If you yourself can not contribute, or simply victimize yourself so much that your only resolution become turned towards the ego. If you are not a victim then your ego can and will be your ally.. As in trusting your ability to deliver on your promises and motivations. Though failing, being a victim of yourself and the vast programming efforts towards humanity only makes you a "tool" of insecurity, I explain this by you\the individual pushing your own sense of insecurity and perhaps fear over to others not in need for your negative wisdom.
Attacking the integrity of others only reflects on your own ability to undermine others while failing to take personal responsibility.

Edit to add:

Speak clearly, present clearly and thus be heard clearly.

Now, this is only me, but I speak what I see to be my own truth, a truth I can stand behind because I act on it.

[realitycorrodes]

New Age spiritual propaganda uses distraction techniques. It also uses "flattering the spiritual persons ego". Example: New Age spirituality teaches we are "chosen" (red flag right there) and as such we are special. When we are special we are given "special lessons" to learn etc. etc. Yet no one comtemplates intensely upon the fact that the special lessons being learned (e.g. overcoming fear) are actually quite trivial in relationship to the "disproportionate amount of pain" one has to experience such lessons. When one comprehends such things one can only come to the conclusions that the root program of physical pain is designed to be cruel. The primary intention is cruelty.

This begs the question...How to set oneself free of physical pain?

When you realise and admit that that is what we all really seek then we also realise that there are no real teachers out there....cause the fake teachers are all teaching us to overcome an imaginary fear - they keep us thinking that the imaginary fear is our root problem when all fear comes from physical pain.


When I was a child I was not frightened of the fire before I put my hand in - I had no prior programing towards it as good or bad. But once I felt the physical pain of being burnt, I was scared to ever do it again! And the pain I suffered that day was not limited to creating fear in me just about fire it made me concerned that other things not known may be worthy of being frightened of as well.

[Mark]

Posted by seeingterra (here)
Thanks for the thread Rahkyt,

I just posted the below on another thread and thought it might fit here as well, beg my pardon if it does not

For those with eyes to see and ears to hear and all that.

Beautifully and clearly stated, ST. Thank you so much for sharing your comments here. I can imagine which thread it is currently on as there are a number that require such momentary interventions just to moderate the more extreme expressions. I'm of the mind now that these things must be in all of their wild and vainglorious declaiming. I suppose it is an expression of infinite probability that all things must occur as they happen, there can be no other way. It is a testament to the strength of the forum that the types of wars between people of oppositional viewpoints that PA has been experiencing have not yet torn the place apart. Or perhaps, instead, it is a testament to the intestinal fortitude of the participants and their commitment, no matter the orientation, to the expression of their truth.

the theme in all of my posting today is also of a kind, no matter the thread, I'm finding. These themes of anger and fear, of energetic exchange both conscious and unconscious and owning up to what our true intentions are in all instances. It always comes back to self and Self, as you write. Bless!

[Carmen]

Jeez! Fear's in our very genes! We have had lifetimes of fearful imprinting so we are born with it. It part of our downloading of our genetic line from conception!! Couple that with religion telling us that we only have one life and this is it! Then we go to heaven or hell! Not much of choice. Stay frozen with fear in case we sin or have a merry old time and go to hell at the end of it!

Takes quite a bit to throw off all that imprinted belief system of garbage. The controllers have done a great job and were very nearly there!! Damm those rebels who said 'to hell' with all of that.

Although we have as many perspectives as hair on a dog we are all rebels with a cause and all power to us. Sorry, gone off topic slightly but the members here and other places are the spiritual wedge in the grid of control. We don't all agree on everything, sure, but we all dare to be different and have suffered ridicule because of it. We have gone past the fear of not fitting in to the tribe.

[etm567]

Posted by Mulder (here)

Posted by Rahkyt (here)

How can we not despair and get depressed when we are trying to figure out how to get out of these negative patterns? Depression is anger turned inward, they say. Again, back to the root, which is fear.

Hi, I disagree that depression is anger turned inward. Depression has been shown to result from chemical imbalances in the brain. Some drugs which re-balance these chemicals have been shown to reduce depression. Whether or not this chemical imbalance results from fear turned inward is impossible to know. so I'm saying depression can be resulting from an illness, not the way you handle anger.

Not all depressions are the same, and certainly some of them are caused by anger. And anger is yet another emotion that releases chemicals in the brain. Depression is a problem of chemicals in the brain.

All kinds of things we do, think, eat and imbibe have various effects on the chemicals in our brain. Even daylight and lack of daylight.

I've been chronically ill for many years, and the government has often tried to pass it off as some kind of emotional thing. But they recently did some studies and determined that people with CFS or CFIDS did not have those chemicals that say you are in a depression that caused by a chemical imbalance. But people who have this do get depressed, because the damned disease destroys your life and causes you to feel pain almost all the time. That is very depressing!

I would not pretend to know what all depressions are. I am also from a family of folks with bipolar disease, and I have watched clinical depression work its destruction. Hmm, maybe that's the word you didn't use that maybe you should have, clinical? But I think not even all clinical depressions are strictly caused by chemical processes totally apart from our lives. Sometimes the chemicals in our daily lives set off those storms that can cause depression.

I was really depressed once, for two years. It started when I quit smoking, cold turkey, from 1.5 to 2 packs a day, and was working at night. I refused to take medication at that time, which I would not do again, but it did get better -- when I stopped working at night, and when I started smoking again. So, there you go. Different chemicals, yes, but chemicals. Now I do not smoke, and this time I didn't get depressed when I quit. But I wasn't such a heavy smoker, and I did it very gradually.

Basically, I would never suggest that anyone with a serious clinical depression not take medication for it (too many suicides in my extended family, as well!), but all depressions are not the same. Just my opinion.

ETM

[another bob]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
An extraordinarily in-depth and penetrating discourse, AB.

Oh oh, was I supposed to say more?

Hehehe . . .

[WhiteFeather]

Although I Do Perceive Fear To Be This Basic Or Simplistic, If You Will: And Pardon Me If I'm Being Rude Here

F reedom
E nlightenment
A scension
R ethinking From Inside

I hope this clarify's FEAR for Mice Elf.