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Thread: Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

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    Default Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

    This is my first thread and it is intended to offer information that is not from the MSM. Most of the links posted here will be from Veterans Today because of the high quality value of intelligence and editorial staff. It is not garbage off of a news wire or neocon drool.

    Just a day or two ago I read an article about the Chinese bringing down that drone in Iran last month. The following two articles I will post here will lend a lot of depth and understanding to this otherwise small news piece you can read here:http://warsclerotic.wordpress.com/20...whiz-team-did/

    After reading that read these two articles written weeks ago.
    Here:http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/12...eally-need-it/
    and here:http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/12...e-theft-caper/

    I hope to keep this thread about world information/intelligence unavailable from the usual propaganda and twisted truth sources. I hope for a high level discussion. I will answer all questions to the best of my ability. This thread will also contain some of my op-ed. Op is short for opinion and we are all entitled to have one.
    Last edited by modwiz; 11th February 2012 at 19:14.

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    Default Re: Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

    Quote It was during that period of time 1994-2000, that certain free trade agreements were being passed and ratified, specifically NAFTA, GATT, and membership for China within the WTO

    Does he provide the specific trade agreements mentioned? I know that NAFTA, GATT was a massively dumb thing for America to do, but is there any thing to show that they would compromise their weapons suppliers?

    Thanks Modwiz

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    Default Re: Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

    Perhaps as a corollary to "back door" hardware, faulty electronic technology and the like, this month's CFO (Chief Financial Officer) magazine has a short piece addressing innovation. Pertinent here is a study that ranks countries and the innovation that they produce. In the two year period from 2009 to 2011 the USA dropped from 1 to 7; the UK dropped from 4 to 10; and Switzerland rose from 7 to 1. The obvious question is why?

    Source: http://www.cfo.com/article.cfm/14616...ine_alsoinside

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    Default Re: Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

    Sorry I found the answer to my question Modwiz

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    Default Re: Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

    Quote Posted by cellardoor (here)
    Quote It was during that period of time 1994-2000, that certain free trade agreements were being passed and ratified, specifically NAFTA, GATT, and membership for China within the WTO

    Does he provide the specific trade agreements mentioned? I know that NAFTA, GATT was a massively dumb thing for America to do, but is there any thing to show that they would compromise their weapons suppliers?

    Thanks Modwiz
    The specific trade agreement are in the quote you posted,
    Quote It was during that period of time 1994-2000, that certain free trade agreements were being passed and ratified, specifically NAFTA, GATT, and membership for China within the WTO
    I would not want you to go away unsatisfied, so here is a little more from the article:
    Quote "Mr. Gore implemented a set of policies which relaxed the stringent manufacturing and testing procedures required to pass the tight Mil-Spec 883-C2 standards for all military electronic hardware and systems.
    The net result was the Pentagon could continue to buy all the weapons systems they desired but with cheaper off the shelf components.
    After all, they were in many instances the same part, just made to civilian standards, not manufactured to Mil-Spec, which we were assured were just as good and please consider the cost savings."


    And this:
    Quote "They could now sell off the shelf components to the military customers for use in sophisticated advanced systems, profitability goes up, and people get laid off, cost and overhead is reduced, good business, right?
    So how does this ancient political history relate to the Iranian capture of a 5th generation US Spy Drone? The simple answer is: the outsourcing and off shoring of critical US technology industries.
    At the time of the passage of the disastrous trade bill I cite above, the USA was #1 in the world for semiconductor production and technology, since then the USA has willingly ceded that position to China and today is not even in the top 10 semiconductor producers.
    China is now the country of origin for the majority of semiconductor devices used within US Military systems. There are very few companies left who even manufacture in the USA."


    I hope this is more helpful.
    Last edited by modwiz; 11th February 2012 at 20:23.

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    Default Re: Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

    Interesting. This in addition to reports of China possessing stealth technology that the US could not detect for some years now. Other historical instances where their client state, North Korea, has been implied to possess technology that can fire missiles "without prior notice", also implying their possession of stealth technology beyond the capacity of Japan, as a Western ally, to counter.

    The posts that you've started the thread with plus these indications of potential technological superiority possessed by the Chinese and N. Koreans explains their aggressive stance in the past decade, as they have good reason to believe that if push comes to shove in any military engagement with the West, they will come out on top.

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    Default Re: Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

    That's no big surprise, just this week Chavez had (key word here) Missiles from North Korea that were bought and funded by Iran, tipped with Bio-Warfare and Nuclear warheads. Some of the war heads were supplied from Pakistan. Confirmed by Spy Satellites and U2 Spy Planes, but....he doesn't have them anymore.
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    "Reality is always hard to accept whenever it is unpleasant. Our minds play tricks and tell us it just cannot be. Instead of accepting the truth as it is when it disturbs us, we try to deny its existence."

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    Default Re: Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

    All somewhat reminiscent of the disabled cruise ship off of S. Cal last year. Several very large Cummins diesel generators and the main plant from the engine all burning out at once? The same day the strange unidentified "missle" was sighted off of Socal? People like Wayne Madsen were saying a Chinese submarine launched an EMP weapon. If you watch the passengers videos of the incident you see that an aircraft carrier and several other ships were sent to aid the damaged cruise ship.


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    Default Re: Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

    Thank you modwiz for posting common sense articles.

    I would not be surprised at all if Chinese brought down the drone. That would be consistent with all sides testing their hardware in clandestine and realistic ways without actually firing at each other. Nothing new in this, as it was standard practice during the cold war. It is a game of economics in the end. Who can afford to play the one up game longer. US lost a play partner when USSR went bankrupt, and now it is hoping China can pick up the game.

    As for China, it is a country that is truly trying to solve problems that dwarf anything in the US. Of the 1.2 billion people, over 700 million of them are willing to get a job at any pay to feed their families. That's over twice the population of US. The rivers in China are so phenomenally polluted, that a large number of them have sludge running through them. Any visitor can see this (I did). China is struggling to modernize, and while cities like Beijing, Xian and Shanghai, etc are world class cities, the vast majority of China is still highly undeveloped, thanks to Mao and his policies.

    So the game continues, but I know I am too tired of the stupid spy games. Its time for 007 to retire and the world to unite and go forward. Of course "unite" suggest a 1 world government of sorts and most people would rather kill and die than to be under a single world government that pushes a single language.
    Can't have it both ways!

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    Default Re: Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

    Quote Posted by DreamsInDigital (here)
    That's no big surprise, just this week Chavez had (key word here) Missiles from North Korea that were bought and funded by Iran, tipped with Bio-Warfare and Nuclear warheads. Some of the war heads were supplied from Pakistan. Confirmed by Spy Satellites and U2 Spy Planes, but....he doesn't have them anymore.
    Ok, where did they go and what is the rest of the story? Give us the goods or a link, no teasing in this thread.

    I will withhold the 'thanks' until you deliver.
    Last edited by modwiz; 11th February 2012 at 21:26.

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    Default Re: Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

    Quote Posted by Intranuclear (here)
    Thank you modwiz for posting common sense articles.

    I would not be surprised at all if Chinese brought down the drone. That would be consistent with all sides testing their hardware in clandestine and realistic ways without actually firing at each other. Nothing new in this, as it was standard practice during the cold war. It is a game of economics in the end. Who can afford to play the one up game longer. US lost a play partner when USSR went bankrupt, and now it is hoping China can pick up the game.

    As for China, it is a country that is truly trying to solve problems that dwarf anything in the US. Of the 1.2 billion people, over 700 million of them are willing to get a job at any pay to feed their families. That's over twice the population of US. The rivers in China are so phenomenally polluted, that a large number of them have sludge running through them. Any visitor can see this (I did). China is struggling to modernize, and while cities like Beijing, Xian and Shanghai, etc are world class cities, the vast majority of China is still highly undeveloped, thanks to Mao and his policies.

    So the game continues, but I know I am too tired of the stupid spy games. Its time for 007 to retire and the world to unite and go forward. Of course "unite" suggest a 1 world government of sorts and most people would rather kill and die than to be under a single world government that pushes a single language.
    Can't have it both ways!
    I think you a quite right about 'the game'. The Chinese launched a missile last year to prove that they can sail in our waters undetected and fire missiles. Now they have shown us they have the way to take over control of our most sophisticated weapons, if they made the parts for them.

    They have shown us how short-sighted, and treasonous, our greedy corporations are when it comes to profits over national security. I do not believe China wants a war or plans do do anything other than to enjoy the advantage. War is messy business and commerce is the better way to go if you are willing to play fair and wage a battle of merchant wits and not a muscular oriented economic model.
    Last edited by modwiz; 11th February 2012 at 21:26.

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    Default Re: Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

    I'm still waiting on final confirmation, but from what I understand they were removed by allied forces connected to the US Intelligence. I'm not entirely sure what other information you want to know regarding this? How it's all connected or what? From what I understand they were pretty much an insurance policy to allow Iran to indirectly strike back in the case that they were invaded by either US or Israeli forces. The launchers were destroyed, so were the missiles themselves. The thing about Venezuela is it's within about 10 minutes striking distance of the central and eastern portions of the United States. Which with the general incompetence of US Forces, we wouldn't have any chance of stopping a strike that close in origins.
    Last edited by DreamsInDigital; 11th February 2012 at 21:37.
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    Default Re: Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

    Good thread Modwiz.....You probably have seen this before, but since we are talking about drones it looks like
    everyone will have them soon and the days of Kamakazi bomb attacks will be back in the next major
    world war ....with 'pilots' on control consuls thousands of miles away..



    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-unveiled.html

    Solar powered surveillance planes that can fly for weeks.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ng-record.html

    I'm sure Russia and China have their versions in development....

    So after Reagans Star Wars project....Which is orbiting up there...

    The sequal has now started....'Attack of the Drones'.....
    Last edited by Cidersomerset; 11th February 2012 at 21:45.

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    Talking Re: Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

    Congrads on your first ever Thread, Welcome to Avalon.

    Everything today in The USA is made in China, even our own military equipment is as well, i guess all those ass clowns in Congress voted yes on it without actually reading the bill first. Welcome to America.

    The Chinese military have far surpassed our military technology. Stealth is just one item in their bag of tricks.


    The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

    By MATTHEW HICKLEY Last updated at 00:13 10 November 2007

    American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk - a 1,000ft supercarrier with 4,500 personnel on board. By the time it surfaced the 160ft Song Class diesel-electric attack submarine is understood to have sailed within viable range for launching torpedoes or missiles at the carrier. According to senior Nato officials the incident caused consternation in the U.S. Navy. The Americans had no idea China's fast-growing submarine fleet had reached such a level of sophistication, or that it posed such a threat. One Nato figure said the effect was "as big a shock as the Russians launching Sputnik" - a reference to the Soviet Union's first orbiting satellite in 1957 which marked the start of the space age. The incident, which took place in the ocean between southern Japan and Taiwa is a major embaressment for the Pentagon.

    More:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...red-faced.html
    Last edited by WhiteFeather; 11th February 2012 at 22:20.
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    Default Re: Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

    Hey WF, thanks for reiterating the point. I posted that same article in my earlier statement:

    Quote This in addition to reports of China possessing stealth technology that the US could not detect for some years now.
    I also posted another article that shows that N. Korea may also have access to this technology as well. It is becoming quite apparent that the West no longer holds the technological edge. Whether this is through design or not remains to be seen.

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    Default Re: Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

    Snippet from VT ( Below)You allready put it in yourself but it IS the important part, the US is bought sold and payed for in my view as a result of this action, it feels like treason.

    In conjunction with that disastrous misguided US economic policy, the military under the direction of then Vice President Al Gore was “streamlining” US Military procurement protocols.

    Mr. Gore implemented a set of policies which relaxed the stringent manufacturing and testing procedures required to pass the tight Mil-Spec 883-C2 standards for all military electronic hardware and systems.

    The net result was the Pentagon could continue to buy all the weapons systems they desired but with cheaper off the shelf components.

    After all, they were in many instances the same part, just made to civilian standards, not manufactured to Mil-Spec, which we were assured were just as good and please consider the cost savings.

    The net result was the company that I was associated with had an excuse to shut down their dedicated military use product divisions.

    They could now sell off the shelf components to the military customers for use in sophisticated advanced systems, profitability goes up, and people get laid off, cost and overhead is reduced, good business, right?

    End snippet.


    If all these electronics were bought in China and "on the cheap", it looks very clear to me (i have been in bussines myself a bit, and when you want to buy cheap, you WILL get screwed as soon as your attention span for quality drops, they just wait for it, it will happen) inferior or contaminated stuff WILL come in, these sort of things on this scale are almost too large to comprehend, but one thing is for sure, the Chinese are a economical power to look out for. Nixon knew it and everybody else since then does too.

    China already has a foothold in a few ports within the USA with practically unlimited unrestricted acces.

    The conspiracy is a global thing in my view, everybody knows exactly who is doing what with who and why its done, its all just a wargame for recources.

    Its a big show thats playing out right now, its televised on the net and god knows what more, were supposed to know we are sold out and we do.

    My fear is "we are seriously f#cked" as a global village by this, but i can only hope this will end well.

    No predictions from me.

    And another thing on the side of this by the way, i have the strange feeling we are all being put to sleep by Fulford and Wilcock with the stories of the (whitehats and dragon societies) and we are filled with a sense of false hope that the wise easteners are going to bring everlasting peace and world changes) To me this feels as a part of the game as well.

    I dont hope they are going to whoop our respective white asses for the sh@t the powers that be have inflicted on the good peoples of this earth, but it would come as no surprise to me if this is going to be payback time in a bad way.

    Hope i didnt poop the party here. If i did im not quite sure if i'm sorry for it.

    regards from

    just some random dumb@ss.
    Last edited by 778 neighbour of some guy; 11th February 2012 at 22:23. Reason: fulford, and forgive me the typos i made
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    Default Re: Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

    Quote Posted by DreamsInDigital (here)
    I'm still waiting on final confirmation, but from what I understand they were removed by allied forces connected to the US Intelligence. I'm not entirely sure what other information you want to know regarding this? How it's all connected or what? From what I understand they were pretty much an insurance policy to allow Iran to indirectly strike back in the case that they were invaded by either US or Israeli forces. The launchers were destroyed, so were the missiles themselves. The thing about Venezuela is it's within about 10 minutes striking distance of the central and eastern portions of the United States. Which with the general incompetence of US Forces, we wouldn't have any chance of stopping a strike that close in origins.
    Do you honestly believe that Venezuela poses a threat? That is a serious question. The only serious threat in this hemisphere is the USA. All other nations arming themselves do so to hope they can make the USA think twice before trashing another country.

    The information I wanted was a credible source of intelligence for a story that sounds like more neocon drool and fear mongering for a portion of the USA population that cowers like children from a bogie man.
    Last edited by modwiz; 11th February 2012 at 22:17.

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    Default Re: Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    It is becoming quite apparent that the West no longer holds the technological edge. Whether this is through design or not remains to be seen.
    It's my understanding that there are two competing factions involved in doling out technology up-grades -- one that would like to see us progress out into space, for example, and the other that would like to see us remain stone age-bound. They'll use human nations and events as chess pieces. It's an old story, variously conceived as some kind of war in heaven, or battle for our souls, hearts, and minds. Both sides, moreover, are constantly recruiting. Every choice we make is a reaction to the test, the test to determine which side we'll align with. Our behavior signals our allegiance, and will also determine which direction we go when the test is done and the scores are evaluated during the life review.


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    Default Re: Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

    Do I think Chavez would be crazy enough to do it? Yes, I think Chavez is crazy enough to pose a threat to United States when he is given Missiles from Iran and via North Korea. I'm expecting other sources of confirmation in next few days for this. But other than say that these are highly placed Intelligence sources I'm getting my information from, I can't reveal who they are. But, any details you want I'm more than happy to provide what I can. But, that's how it works when it comes to information, sometimes you have to protect your sources. Tell The Truth and Never Compromise. Something it seems a lot of people are failing to understand, and specially when peoples lives are at stakes, but this is just how it works.
    Last edited by DreamsInDigital; 11th February 2012 at 22:25.
    "Ignoring the evidence is simply another way of ignoring the truth."
    "Reality is always hard to accept whenever it is unpleasant. Our minds play tricks and tell us it just cannot be. Instead of accepting the truth as it is when it disturbs us, we try to deny its existence."

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    Default Re: Middle East Back Stories and Intelligence

    Quote Posted by DreamsInDigital (here)
    Do I think Chavez would be crazy enough to do it? Yes, I think Chavez is crazy enough to pose a threat to United States when he is given Missiles from Iran and via North Korea. I'm expecting photos or other sources of confirmation in next few days for this. But other than say that these are highly placed Intelligence sources I'm getting my information from, I can't reveal who they are. But, any details you want I'm more than happy to provide what I can. But, that's how it works when it comes to information, sometimes you have to protect your sources. Tell The Truth and Never Compromise.
    OK. Let me state that I do not and cannot believe that Chavez poses any offensive threat to the USA. I further believe that such talk is nothing more than ziodrool dripped into the mouths of Americans. Thank you for your story, but I find the premise of it hollow and fear based. Even if the story is true, it still has no ominous implications for the USA as long as they don't keep on thinking it is their right to impose their will on the world. Chavez as a credible threat does not work.

    I understand about protecting sources. I also understand a warriors paranoia.
    Last edited by modwiz; 11th February 2012 at 22:37.

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