+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 42

Thread: Enough ... at what point do we finally say ENOUGH!!!

  1. Link to Post #21
    Canada Avalon Member Nathalie's Avatar
    Join Date
    29th July 2011
    Location
    In a tiny Burgundian boondock...
    Age
    47
    Posts
    92
    Thanks
    109
    Thanked 344 times in 78 posts

    Default Re: Enough ... at what point do we finally say ENOUGH!!!

    Quote Posted by Borden (here)

    Nathalie, thank you for your intelligent comments. If I were in angry mode I would say that maybe this is not a personal matter for you or me to decide only for ourselves, because hundreds of millions of animals die every year in conditions that I can only describe as hell.

    I tried the veganism route and was committed to it. After several years I nearly died, even though I did it quite scientifically and with much research. I started eating fish (only fish, and only specific types of fish) and recovered with miraculous speed. I don't know whether I was doing it wrong or I am genetically disposed to needing fish, but I do know that I would not be here today had I not (very grudgingly) given up on being a vegan. If I thought I could be vegan again I would.

    What enrages and appalls me is to see animal life taken cheaply and with no consideration. When I see fat people eating hamburgers I feel the wrath of angels. I am working on the compassion of angels part. This is not nutrition ... this is idiot hell that the stupid buy into. It is profoundly disgusting to me.

    I totally agree with you ... if people are going to eat meat then far more attention should be paid to the welfare of the animal and also to its death. That at least would be a start.

    Borden
    It's interesting that fish saved your life! Good thing you're alive to tell the story... As for the rest, well... I'm with you. I do agree that "this is not a personal matter for you or me to decide only for ourselves, because hundreds of millions of animals die every year in conditions that I can only describe as hell." But what can we do, really? For most, eating meat is like breathing. So is riding in a car that burns fuel. So is using nuclear generated electricity... I like to think Mother Earth will let us know when enough is enough. And I hope that's soon, because no one seems to care. I feel sad, all of a sudden...
    Last edited by Nathalie; 22nd February 2012 at 14:19.

  2. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Nathalie For This Post:

    Calz (22nd February 2012), Curt (23rd February 2012), gooty64 (22nd February 2012), Lettherebelight (22nd February 2012), meeradas (22nd February 2012), Nora (22nd February 2012), RunningDeer (6th March 2012), Tane Mahuta (23rd February 2012)

  3. Link to Post #22
    Avalon Member meeradas's Avatar
    Join Date
    29th November 2010
    Location
    శూన్య స్థలం
    Posts
    2,243
    Thanks
    21,147
    Thanked 15,413 times in 2,061 posts

    Default Re: Enough ... at what point do we finally say ENOUGH!!!

    this shall be my comment on the sub-topic

  4. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to meeradas For This Post:

    Calz (22nd February 2012), Lettherebelight (22nd February 2012), Nora (22nd February 2012), RunningDeer (6th March 2012)

  5. Link to Post #23
    Borden
    Guest

    Default Re: Enough ... at what point do we finally say ENOUGH!!!

    Don't be sad, Nathalie ... people like us in forums like this care about animals, and at least we're talking about it. That means that it is not a closed subject in the great mind of us as a bigger entity than individuals.

    I've seen infant animals killed horribly by soulless thugs in a production line. I would like to think that the fat, hamburger eating people would drop their hamburger if they saw what I have seen. I think every child has that moment of ... "where does meat come from?" ... and the fact that Mum and Dad say that it's okay is just the evil hypnotism carried on down the line. It's not that the fat hamburger eating people are evil, it's just that they're stupid. Information might change that, but with so many vested financial interests in hell for animals, we're unlikely to see that information becoming widely known.

    I hate eating fish, by the way. I never do it without a private moment first that some might call a prayer. Not to any God, but to the fish, and to mother nature. I wish I could find an alternative, but I am not kidding about having nearly died. The worst thing was that my mind fell apart, and now, when I look at images of people starving in third world countries I feel even more sympathy, because that is what happens. I was suicidal for many months, and I later learned about how essential fatty acids regulate the seratonin in the brain. God help them. And God help the animals in this miserable human world.

    Borden

  6. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to Borden For This Post:

    aranuk (22nd February 2012), Calz (22nd February 2012), ceetee9 (22nd February 2012), Curt (23rd February 2012), DoubleHelix (22nd February 2012), EnergyGardener (22nd February 2012), golden lady (22nd February 2012), gooty64 (22nd February 2012), Lettherebelight (22nd February 2012), meeradas (22nd February 2012), Nathalie (22nd February 2012), Nora (22nd February 2012), RunningDeer (6th March 2012)

  7. Link to Post #24
    Morocco Avalon Member PurpleLama's Avatar
    Join Date
    23rd January 2011
    Location
    Merica
    Posts
    2,912
    Thanks
    19,044
    Thanked 24,683 times in 2,821 posts

    Default Re: Enough ... at what point do we finally say ENOUGH!!!

    Quote Posted by Calz_Avaretard (here)
    ... we only need one more Avalonian

    C'mon
    In my best Shenran the Eternal Dragon voice:

    Your Wish Has Been Granted



    The 100th Avalonian Monkey don't play.
    The above post is either satire or parody.
    It is entirely fictitious.

  8. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to PurpleLama For This Post:

    Calz (22nd February 2012), EnergyGardener (22nd February 2012), Nora (22nd February 2012), RunningDeer (6th March 2012)

  9. Link to Post #25
    Borden
    Guest

    Default Re: Enough ... at what point do we finally say ENOUGH!!!

    When I go to Tesco tomorrow will the anatomy shelves be empty?

    I bloody well hope so. That clip sounds like a voice of authority!

    Borden

  10. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Borden For This Post:

    Calz (22nd February 2012), Nora (22nd February 2012), PurpleLama (22nd February 2012), RunningDeer (6th March 2012)

  11. Link to Post #26
    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
    Join Date
    14th January 2011
    Location
    Duluth, Minnesota
    Age
    60
    Posts
    3,140
    Thanks
    15,530
    Thanked 22,358 times in 2,560 posts

    Default Re: Enough ... at what point do we finally say ENOUGH!!!

    Quote Posted by Borden (here)
    Don't be sad, Nathalie ... people like us in forums like this care about animals, and at least we're talking about it. That means that it is not a closed subject in the great mind of us as a bigger entity than individuals.

    I've seen infant animals killed horribly by soulless thugs in a production line. I would like to think that the fat, hamburger eating people would drop their hamburger if they saw what I have seen. I think every child has that moment of ... "where does meat come from?" ... and the fact that Mum and Dad say that it's okay is just the evil hypnotism carried on down the line. It's not that the fat hamburger eating people are evil, it's just that they're stupid. Information might change that, but with so many vested financial interests in hell for animals, we're unlikely to see that information becoming widely known.

    I hate eating fish, by the way. I never do it without a private moment first that some might call a prayer. Not to any God, but to the fish, and to mother nature. I wish I could find an alternative, but I am not kidding about having nearly died. The worst thing was that my mind fell apart, and now, when I look at images of people starving in third world countries I feel even more sympathy, because that is what happens. I was suicidal for many months, and I later learned about how essential fatty acids regulate the seratonin in the brain. God help them. And God help the animals in this miserable human world.

    Borden
    Hi Borden,

    I'm vegan, and I know it is just one aspect of Calz topic, but I do find the subject very interesting and important.

    A few random thoughts...

    I have heard a few people who were vegan say they went to a state of low vitality on a vegan diet. Although I do hold the possibility that some humans are 'wired' as omnivores for optimum health, a huge part of me doubts it. I guess, in a big way, it just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not negating the experience that you have, but wondering if it may be possible that there is a misinterpretation of the data you collected as a guinea pig. :~)

    Coca Cola and Twinkies is a vegan diet. So, we know that the category "vegan" is very wide, and can include anything from deadly to nutrient-dense and heathful. My guess is that you were probably very, very, far away from the Coke & Twinkie diet and ate as healthful as you knew how. Again, admitting the possibility that I'm wrong, and that some humans need animal products, my guess is that most vegans that arrive at a state of low vitality are doing something "wrong."

    Let's use your example of 'fatty acids' as a single facet of discussion. (It is often B12 that starts this inquiry.) Essential fatty acids are easy to get in fish, and takes major sleuthing to find them in enough quantity and balance in the plant kingdom. A movie, Lorenzo's Oil, (based on a true story) came out a few years ago, and was about a father's search for a treatment for his son's degenerative disease - and the long chain fatty acids derived from plant oils ended up to be the answer. So I find it amazing (and encouraging) that you were able to figure out that essential fatty acids were lacking in your diet, and that you found a source. I don't know about the UK, but in the US, you would not be able to walk into a grocery store (or even most "health food" stores!) and find cannabis seed meal, or cannabis oil. The percentage of essential fatty acids in cannabis is the highest of any (known) plant in the world. And, it has the ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 in a 3:1 ratio, considered ideal for humans.

    I hope this is taken in the spirit offered. I'm not trying to "correct" you, but rather to offer the possibility that we may not know enough about a healthful vegan diet to assure that any human can be vibrant and in full vitality on a vegan diet. And/or, the perfect ingredients (including cannabis) may not be locally available.

    I just purchased a new book, and though it would be silly to review a book I haven't completed reading, nor have I taken the effort to follow the recommendations (yet), I'd say it is certainly worth investigating. The book is Green For Life and the author describes hitting a less-than-optimal plateau with her vegan diet, in fact, raw vegan diet. That set her on a path of exploration...
    Quote Posted by from the Green For Life website
    Boutenko’s groundbreaking research comparing the diet of wild chimpanzees with the standard American diet remains a powerful cornerstone of the book, and her findings on the abundance of protein in greens, the role of greens in homeostasis, the significant of stomach acid, how greens make the body more alkaline, the healing power of chlorophyll, and more present readers with the keys to restoring and increasing their health and well-being.
    Although, for insane legal reasons, I am not allowed to even think about including the leaves of the cannabis plant as part of my diet, this video is worth watching (or re-watching.)

    Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgEP9FdIzT8

    ==============================

    Another aspect of Calz' topic is the horrendous treatment of the vast majority of animals raised for consumption. I tell friends and family that do eat animal products to spend the time and the money to only purchase the very finest meat, fish, eggs, and milk that are available.

    I was influenced about 30 years ago by John Robbins, the original whistleblower on "factory farming/(ranching)", by hearing him speak and by reading the first of his books, Diet For A New America. At the time, I would have predicted that his message (delivered in a gentle, loving, and compassionate way that has strongly influenced my writing) would have created a full revolt against the methods of factory ranching - if for no other reason than that the consumers wold be reviled by what they knew of the meat they eat. Stunningly, nothing at all has been done from a top-down governmental perspective. In other words, cruelty, inhumane conditions, pathogenic conditions, use of antibiotics, steroids, and GMO feed is all legal. Approved!

    You would think that every person that becomes aware of the conditions under which these animals are raised would be outraged, appalled, and ready to do something about it - if only to change their own buying habits. I have seen, time and again, most of these people slip back into the sleepwalking state of denial and ignorance, or feel helpless because they (believe that they) cannot afford properly raised animal products.

    Dennis
    Last edited by Dennis Leahy; 22nd February 2012 at 15:50. Reason: typo fix
    We are either filled with compassion, or we are empty.

    Please read, sign, and share The Reset Button: http://www.ResetButtonMovement.Org

  12. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Dennis Leahy For This Post:

    Antagenet (23rd February 2012), Calz (22nd February 2012), Curt (23rd February 2012), DoubleHelix (22nd February 2012), golden lady (22nd February 2012), Nathalie (22nd February 2012), Nora (22nd February 2012), RunningDeer (6th March 2012)

  13. Link to Post #27
    Avalon Member mountain_jim's Avatar
    Join Date
    8th December 2010
    Posts
    1,035
    Thanks
    4,964
    Thanked 3,777 times in 891 posts

    Default Re: Enough ... at what point do we finally say ENOUGH!!!

    Well I have not eaten beef, pork, or chicken for 37 years, and I believe I am fairly healthy.

    Chicken agribusinees showed up after I had my first home/retreat 50 miles out from a city - they ruined the air, shot my dogs, poisened the water.

    I left and moved where none of this type biz works economically.

    I do eat occasional seafood and dairy so I can't claim being a pure vegi or vegan, but I believe my diet has helped my nervous system to be more sensitive and reduced my environmental footprint somewhat. And I am happy not to support meat-agribiz in many of its forms, after it so screwed me.

  14. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to mountain_jim For This Post:

    Calz (22nd February 2012), Curt (23rd February 2012), Nora (22nd February 2012), RunningDeer (6th March 2012)

  15. Link to Post #28
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    21st August 2011
    Age
    49
    Posts
    539
    Thanks
    5,067
    Thanked 1,846 times in 452 posts

    Default Re: Enough ... at what point do we finally say ENOUGH!!!

    Please do'nt hate me because I just love a good T-bone cooked med well on the grill. With a side of fresh green beans and a salad with o/v. We buy local beef raised on local grain and pastures from a local butcher. We are all going to die eventually, one way or another, I do not feel guilty for spoiling myself once in a while. We're here to experience and taste everything earth has to offer, Earth offers T-bones and I like the taste! Some like the taste of duck too !
    Last edited by crested-duck; 22nd February 2012 at 17:43.

  16. Link to Post #29
    United States Avalon Member ghostrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    6th February 2011
    Location
    The Emerald Planet
    Age
    49
    Posts
    4,836
    Thanks
    6,539
    Thanked 17,763 times in 4,236 posts

    Default Re: Enough ... at what point do we finally say ENOUGH!!!

    Quote Posted by Phoenix (here)
    What do you propose
    the only reason things are the way they are , cause we allow it. how did the mayans, or the egyptians, hopi, aztecs, zulus, make it without banks, electric, oil companies, the pentegon, a president, a congress, cell phones, ask yourself WHAT DID WE DO BEFORE ?? TRIBAL LIVING IS THE ONLY ANSWER. small groups of ten or twenty, all working for the good of all. in total harmony with their neighbors doing the same thing , all working for the good of all... instead of the working for the good of self... somebody throw out ideas, because your right enough is enough...anything has to better than this matrix of slavery and control... everyday I go to work and wonder, WHY AM I DOING THIS ?? I work to pay bills, instead of living. we do the work someone else gets the money , we get the scraps, just enough to pay bills and do it again next week and again , and again. insanity= doing the same thing and expecting a different result.
    FOLLOW YOUR HEART, AND YOU'LL FIND YOUR WAY ... Raiding the Matrix , One Mind at a Time ...

  17. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to ghostrider For This Post:

    Calz (22nd February 2012), crested-duck (22nd February 2012), Curt (23rd February 2012), golden lady (22nd February 2012), gooty64 (22nd February 2012), Heart2hearth (23rd February 2012), Hughe (23rd February 2012), Nora (22nd February 2012), Phoenix (25th February 2012), RunningDeer (6th March 2012)

  18. Link to Post #30
    Avalon Member gardunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    5th January 2011
    Location
    upstate new york, usa
    Age
    63
    Posts
    211
    Thanks
    370
    Thanked 325 times in 125 posts

    Default Re: Enough ... at what point do we finally say ENOUGH!!!

    What appears evident is maybe being missed/ Cal has alerted a lot of folks on the forum to a pertinent issue and that is what is most important/ the way we act upon that which we are given access is for each to work out in their own hearts...

  19. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to gardunk For This Post:

    Calz (22nd February 2012), crested-duck (22nd February 2012), Curt (23rd February 2012), ghostrider (23rd February 2012), Nora (22nd February 2012), RunningDeer (6th March 2012)

  20. Link to Post #31
    United States Avalon Member Nora's Avatar
    Join Date
    1st June 2011
    Age
    45
    Posts
    1,275
    Thanks
    51,290
    Thanked 12,930 times in 1,252 posts

    Default Re: Enough ... at what point do we finally say ENOUGH!!!

    75 Percent of Americans Will Be Overweight by 2020 | A report issued today by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) predicts that close to 75 percent of Americans will be considered overweight or obese by the end of the decade, the highest predicted rate of any country surveyed. This equates to an eight percent rise in the number of Americans who are overweight and obese, according to the OECD. The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that health care spending, while rising among all weight categories, increased considerably faster for Americans considered overweight or obese, while a recent study on Medicare found that obese beneficiaries required an extra $149 in spending a year.

    http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012...020/?mobile=nc


    I don't know what the solutions to the ever growing health issues are. Large corporations are profiting from over indulgence of people eating diets of, unless maybe it is genetics, fatty foods, chemically treated, processed foods, GMOs and animals and also not to mention over vaccination which can contain damaging and lethal amounts of metals. A lot of people consume too much of the wrong things for their minds and bodies.

    The one's profiting from this are the large corporations like Monsato, Big Pharma and insurance companies. Problem Reaction Solution.... they are controlling the herd.

    Personally as for eating meat -I never was much of a meat eater, didn't really like it. About 3 mos ago I completely stopped. I have always had problems with my muscles and joints aching -a month after I stopped eating meat, my joints and muscles stopped aching.

    Love

    Nora

    we are all related
    Last edited by Nora; 22nd February 2012 at 19:34.

  21. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Nora For This Post:

    Calz (22nd February 2012), crested-duck (22nd February 2012), Curt (23rd February 2012), RunningDeer (6th March 2012)

  22. Link to Post #32
    United States Avalon Member Calz's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th January 2011
    Location
    Smurfin' USA
    Posts
    8,569
    Thanks
    64,105
    Thanked 53,751 times in 8,025 posts

    Default Re: Enough ... at what point do we finally say ENOUGH!!!

    Quote Posted by Borden (here)
    Quote Posted by Nathalie (here)

    There you have it...
    p.s.: And why can't we talk about not eating meat???
    Because it's so emotionally charged for some people. I know it is for me anyway. But go ahead, so long as Calz doesn't mind in his thread, I'll join you!

    Actually, for me, it's possibly the most important indicator of what is so perverse and wrong with our species. It is the (roast) elephant in the living room. I can and will expand on this if provoked, but wouldn't want to derail here.

    Borden
    By all means continue.

    Thread is an open-ended (albiet) exasperated call to action. Quantum trains cannot be derailed

    Solutions most always start on a personal level ... going to family ... community etc.

    Whatever works for anyone please feel free to contribute and explore.

    If ever there was good reason for *not* eating meat it is now not only due to the factory farming of animals but the GMO feed is being passed along to humans because of it.


    Name:  gwcat.jpg
Views: 73
Size:  12.3 KB
    Last edited by Calz; 22nd February 2012 at 21:38.
    Listened intently for the Sound of One Hand Clapping ... only to hear the sound of the other hand Whacking me Upside the Head!

    Don't forget to take the time each day to smile.

  23. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Calz For This Post:

    Curt (23rd February 2012), gooty64 (23rd February 2012), Nora (22nd February 2012), RunningDeer (6th March 2012)

  24. Link to Post #33
    United States Avalon Member Calz's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th January 2011
    Location
    Smurfin' USA
    Posts
    8,569
    Thanks
    64,105
    Thanked 53,751 times in 8,025 posts

    Default Re: Enough ... at what point do we finally say ENOUGH!!!

    Quote Posted by Hermite (here)
    May I just suggest, Calz, that you not shop at Walmart.
    The city I live in is large enough to have a "Trader Joe's" market (referenced in the OP) as well as "farmer's market" and "orgranic" type local outlets. Walmart is easy to say "no" to

    City living isn't necessarily condusive to a healthy lifestyle but that is another story.


    @ Dennis:
    Quote Hi Borden,

    I'm vegan, and I know it is just one aspect of Calz topic, but I do find the subject very interesting and important.

    A few random thoughts...
    Great post Dennis ... thanks so much
    Last edited by Calz; 22nd February 2012 at 23:11.
    Listened intently for the Sound of One Hand Clapping ... only to hear the sound of the other hand Whacking me Upside the Head!

    Don't forget to take the time each day to smile.

  25. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Calz For This Post:

    Curt (23rd February 2012), Nora (23rd February 2012), RunningDeer (6th March 2012)

  26. Link to Post #34
    United States Avalon Member Calz's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th January 2011
    Location
    Smurfin' USA
    Posts
    8,569
    Thanks
    64,105
    Thanked 53,751 times in 8,025 posts

    Default Re: Enough ... at what point do we finally say ENOUGH!!!

    Quote Posted by PurpleLama (here)
    Quote Posted by Calz_Avaretard (here)
    ... we only need one more Avalonian

    C'mon
    In my best Shenran the Eternal Dragon voice:

    Your Wish Has Been Granted



    The 100th Avalonian Monkey don't play.

    Lucky we are to have so many wizards in our midst.

    I think the 100th Avalonian Monkey has made it's presence felt



    Name:  wizard.jpg
Views: 69
Size:  9.2 KB

    Name:  gorilla.jpg
Views: 77
Size:  8.5 KB
    [100th Monkey scoping out a Monsanto board meeting]
    Listened intently for the Sound of One Hand Clapping ... only to hear the sound of the other hand Whacking me Upside the Head!

    Don't forget to take the time each day to smile.

  27. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Calz For This Post:

    Nora (22nd February 2012), PurpleLama (22nd February 2012), RunningDeer (6th March 2012)

  28. Link to Post #35
    Canada Avalon Member TWINCANS's Avatar
    Join Date
    30th March 2011
    Location
    Pacing in the Cage
    Age
    62
    Posts
    766
    Thanks
    1,922
    Thanked 2,481 times in 633 posts

    Default Re: Enough ... at what point do we finally say ENOUGH!!!

    Quote Posted by Calz_Avaretard (here)
    I don't really offer an answer and so here we continue to be ... treading water in quicksand ... trying to be savy enough to see the light of another day.

    Does it really always have to come down to pitchforks and torches???
    As Modwizard has eloquently placed into the Avalon Plan-in-the-making to DO SOMETHING to stop the madness, first step is personal lifestyle choices ie voting with your pocketbook as well as choosing NOT to add your energy to the beast. Interestingly that also usually means a career choice rethink to pull away one's energy and raise one's sights.

    In addition there's DISCLOSURE. The conspiracy community has dug up much dung, but there's still more work in shovelling it out there so the stench reaches every nose. Not a fun job when there's a shoot the messenger attitude to change out there in the sheeple field. Still, many people are hearing the call which is cause for celebration. A big huge flashlight that will hopefully continue to get brighter being shone on the elites. Then no place to run, frozen like deer in the headlights.

    I am personally hopeful that disclosure of the nail-in-the-coffin type has begun, what with Lord Blackmore's speech in the Lord's and the trillion dollar lawsuit and the bank CEO resignations and the armed forces supporting Ron Paul and CNN being forced to cover his speeches at least a bit and, why not, the channellings from many sources and... I look forward to what Ben Fulford has to say next (he indicated it would be factual events so we can check it out). But then I've always been a glass half full type.

  29. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to TWINCANS For This Post:

    Calz (22nd February 2012), Curt (23rd February 2012), Dennis Leahy (23rd February 2012), ghostrider (23rd February 2012), Nora (23rd February 2012), RunningDeer (6th March 2012)

  30. Link to Post #36
    Borden
    Guest

    Default Re: Enough ... at what point do we finally say ENOUGH!!!

    Dennis Leahy, thank you for your brilliant post.

    I am completely open-minded on this subject of nutrition. All I know is that while a vegan I was spending fortunes on the vegan foods I thought I needed to stay healthy. I paid special attention to EFAs, and ate a lot of hemp seeds, flax seeds, Spirulina, etc.

    Apart from my mind disintegrating (trust me, it was the most hellish period of my life), my body did. Towards the end I could not even walk five minutes up the road to my local shop. If I did (a gruelling ordeal) I would have to spend the next few days going down the stairs one step at a time on my arse. It was that bad. It felt that my bones were disintegrating.

    When it was at its worst, and while suffering a mental torture I would not wish on my worst enemy, I did something recommended by Alberto Villoldo in his book 'The Four Insights'. It's a chakra cleansing exercise. The next morning when I woke up my body was screaming at me to eat fish, mackerel specifically. Weird, eh? I did (finally, despite my feelings), and over a month or two I came back to life.

    I do know that the human body is a tough machine, and we can take a lot of abuse. It is still amazing to me that micro-nutrients could have felled a big strong guy like me. But it makes me think ... these GM foods and pesticides and all the rest of it ... what the hell are we doing to ourselves? and while derailing flagrantly, I still totally agree with Calz. Why are we putting up with this? However, what can you do except make your own personal choices? I have actually had the experience of explaining to people about the independent research into aspartame ... and they've smiiled at me as though it doesn't apply to them, and said, "oh, well I'm sure a little bit won't hurt".

    Hell in a hand-basket.

    Borden

  31. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Borden For This Post:

    Calz (22nd February 2012), Curt (23rd February 2012), Dennis Leahy (23rd February 2012), gooty64 (23rd February 2012), Heart2hearth (23rd February 2012), Nora (23rd February 2012), RunningDeer (6th March 2012)

  32. Link to Post #37
    United States Avalon Member Nora's Avatar
    Join Date
    1st June 2011
    Age
    45
    Posts
    1,275
    Thanks
    51,290
    Thanked 12,930 times in 1,252 posts

    Default Re: Enough ... at what point do we finally say ENOUGH!!!

    I know a lot of people who are making life style changes, buying all organic foods, using filters for their water, not eating meat and supporting their own community's in stopping GMO food products and chemical and fluoridation of their water supply.

    Found this article on fluoridation and also wanted to bump this thread.

    50 reasons why Fluoride should not be added to our drinking water supply

    By Paul Connett, PhD and other members of the Fluoride Action Network (including James Beck, MD, PhD, Michael Connett, JD, Hardy Limeback, DDS, PhD, David McRae and Spedding Micklem, D.Phil.) Introduction
    Fluoridation is the practice of adding a fluoride compound to the public drinking water supply ostensibly for the purpose of fighting tooth decay. The levels used range from 0.6 to 1.2 milligrams of fluoride ion per liter (or parts per million, ppm). The practice began in the U.S. in 1945 and was endorsed by the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS) in 1950. Very few countries have adopted this practice to any significant extent. Only eight countries in the world have more than 50% of their populations drinking artificially fluoridated water (Australia, Colombia, Ireland, Israel, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, and the U.S.). In Europe, only Ireland (with 73% of the population fluoridated), the U.K. (10%) and Spain (10%) fluoridate some of their water supplies. In the U.S., about 70% of the population is drinking fluoridated water – that is approximately 200 million people and about half the number of people drinking artificially fluoridated water worldwide. Some countries have areas with high natural fluoride levels in the water. These include India, China and parts of Africa. In these countries measures are being taken to remove the fluoride because of the health problems that fluoride can cause.
    Fluoridation is a bad medical practice
    1. Fluoride is the only chemical added to water for the purpose of medical treatment. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) classifies fluoride as a drug when used to prevent or mitigate disease (FDA 2000). As a matter of basic logic, adding fluoride to water for the sole purpose of preventing tooth decay (a non-waterborne disease) is a form of medical treatment. All other water treatment chemicals are added to improve the water's quality or safety, which fluoride does not do.
    2. Fluoridation is unethical. Informed consent is standard practice for all medication, and one of the key reasons why most of Western Europe has ruled against fluoridation. With water fluoridation we are allowing governments to do to whole communities (forcing people to take a medicine irrespective of their consent) what individual doctors cannot do to individual patients. While referenda are preferential to imposed policies from government, it still leaves the problem of individual rights versus majority rule. Put another way: Does a voter have the right to require that their neighbor ingest a certain medication (even if it is against that neighbor's will)?
    3. The dose cannot be controlled. Once fluoride is put in the water it is impossible to control the dose each individual receives because people drink different amounts of water. Being able to control the dose a patient receives is critical. Some people (e.g., manual laborers, athletes, diabetics, and people with kidney disease) drink substantially more water than others.
    4. The fluoride goes to everyone regardless of age, health or vulnerability. According to Dr. Arvid Carlsson, the 2000 Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology and one of the scientists who helped keep fluoridation out of Sweden:
      "Water fluoridation goes against leading principles of pharmacotherapy, which is progressing from a stereotyped medication -- of the type 1 tablet 3 times a day -- to a much more individualized therapy as regards both dosage and selection of drugs. The addition of drugs to the drinking water means exactly the opposite of an individualized therapy" (Carlsson 1978).
    5. People now receive fluoride from many other sources besides water. Fluoridated water is not the only way people are exposed to fluoride. Other sources of fluoride include food and beverages processed with fluoridated water (Kiritsy 1996; Heilman 1999), fluoridated dental products (Bentley 1999; Levy 1999), mechanically deboned meat (Fein 2001), tea (Levy 1999), and pesticide residues (e.g., from cryolite) on food (Stannard 1991; Burgstahler 1997). It is now widely acknowledged that exposure to non-water sources of fluoride has significantly increased since the water fluoridation program first began (NRC 2006).
    6. Fluoride is not an essential nutrient (National Research Council [NRC] 1993; Institute of Medicine [IOM] 1997, NRC 2006). No disease has ever been linked to a fluoride deficiency. It has never been shown that ingested fluoride is needed to produce decay-free teeth. Not a single biological process has been shown to require fluoride. On the contrary there is extensive evidence that fluoride can interfere with many important biological processes. Fluoride interferes with numerous enzymes (Waldbott 1978). In combination with aluminum, fluoride interferes with G-proteins (Bigay 1985, 1987). Such interactions give aluminum-fluoride complexes the potential to interfere with signals from growth factors, hormones and neurotransmitters (Strunecka & Patocka 1999; Li 2003). More and more studies are indicating that fluoride can interfere with biochemistry in fundamental ways (Barbier 2010). http://www.fluoridealert.org/50-reasons.htm

    Ways to remove fluoride from water
    • Activated Alumina Defluoridation Filter
      These filters are used in locales where fluorosis is prevalent. They are relatively expensive (lowest price I saw was $30/filter) and require frequent replacement, but do offer an option for home water filtration.
    • Distillation Filtration
      There are commercially available distillation filters that can be purchased to remove fluoride from water. On a related note: When looking at bottled water, keep in mind that 'distilled water' does not imply that a product is suitable for drinking water and other undesirable impurities may be present. http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemis...vefluoride.htm

    Love

    Nora

  33. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Nora For This Post:

    Calz (23rd February 2012), Curt (23rd February 2012), Dennis Leahy (23rd February 2012), RunningDeer (6th March 2012)

  34. Link to Post #38
    United States Avalon Member ghostrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    6th February 2011
    Location
    The Emerald Planet
    Age
    49
    Posts
    4,836
    Thanks
    6,539
    Thanked 17,763 times in 4,236 posts

    Default Re: Enough ... at what point do we finally say ENOUGH!!!

    this thread has a jewel in it. we change what we don't like, nobody does it for us, we do it , on our time, in our way.. enough is enough right now. I changed my thinking this morning and I had the best day today, it felt like christmas morning all day.. hooyaaa.... where the mind goes , the body follows, lets change the world , starting with our own thinking.. right now. you live in the words you speak. say to yourself today will be a great day and see what happens.
    FOLLOW YOUR HEART, AND YOU'LL FIND YOUR WAY ... Raiding the Matrix , One Mind at a Time ...

  35. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to ghostrider For This Post:

    Calz (23rd February 2012), Curt (23rd February 2012), gooty64 (23rd February 2012), Nora (23rd February 2012), PurpleLama (23rd February 2012), RunningDeer (6th March 2012)

  36. Link to Post #39
    United States Avalon Member Calz's Avatar
    Join Date
    26th January 2011
    Location
    Smurfin' USA
    Posts
    8,569
    Thanks
    64,105
    Thanked 53,751 times in 8,025 posts

    Default Re: Enough ... at what point do we finally say ENOUGH!!!

    Love the particpation and great sources of information on how best to tackle the "beast".



    ___________________________


    The EPA announced that it has completed the first part of its study on dioxin, after more than 25 years of stonewalling.

    Dioxin is the most caustic man-made chemical known. Dioxin is a general term for hundreds of chemicals that are produced in industrial processes that use chlorine and burning. Disturbingly, it has a half-life of 100+ years when it is leached into soil or embedded in water systems. Dioxin was the most harmful component in Agent Orange (the recipe for Agent Orange is 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T herbicides).

    The EPA says that air emissions of dioxin have decreased by 90% since the 1980′s, but dioxin is dangerous at any level. The study appears to omit any analysis of dioxin transmission in water and land. The danger is growing because Dow AgroScience has received preliminary USDA approval for its 2,4-D herbicide resistant GMO corn. This means that dioxin contaminated 2,4-D herbicide will drench US farm land and pollute water supplies if the crops are widely planted.

    EPA Dioxin Assessment Report

    The EPA’s press release on dioxin’s health effects trumpeted the lie that current exposure rates “don’t pose significant health risks”. But the EPA does admit that there is a cancer risk, although they are not releasing their study on cancer at this time. Perhaps the delay is due to the fact that 95% of Americans have measurable levels of dioxin in their bodies.

    The EPA’s claim that current levels are not a health risk is contradicted by another webpage on the EPA’s own site says that dioxin accumulates over a lifetime, persists for years, is likely to lead to an increased risk of cancer, and that the current exposure levels are “uncomfortably” close to levels that can cause “subtle” non-cancer effects. These so-called subtle effects may include birth defects, reproductive problems and immunosuppression.

    There were 500,000 victims of birth defects in Viet Nam that can hardly be considered subtle. Dioxin is bad at any level especially since it accumulates in the body.

    Humans are exposed to dioxin primarily through food sources. The EPA’s press release fails to mention that people who eat animal based foods like meat, dairy and eggs will continually increase their dioxin levels.


    If dioxin is so safe, why does the Veterans Administration make automatic payments for a wide range of claims that include several types of cancers and leukemia, liver disease, heart disease, Parkinson’s disease and diabetes? American taxpayers are footing the bill for veterans’ Agent Orange dioxin injuries that are estimated to cost $42 billion over the next 10 years! Monsanto and Dow, the top 2 Agent Orange producers, should pay for all damages — not taxpayers.

    While the EPA’s press release does acknowledge “certain industrial activities” as a cause of dioxin pollution, they omit any reference to chemical herbicides and pesticides. The EPA doesn’t mention that herbicide 2,4-D (half of the Agent Orange recipe) is the seventh largest source of dioxin in the US. Dow Chemical is the biggest 2,4-D manufacturer, and Dow is also listed as the #2 and #3 biggest industrial dioxin dumper in the US. Herbicide 2,4-D is polluting groundwater.

    Shocking EPA Omission

    The most disturbing omission by the EPA is its complete lack of oversight of a specific type of dioxin, 2,7-DCDD, that is one of the most potent kinds of dioxin. It is reported that DCDD is an inevitable by-product of 2,4-D herbicide manufacturing. The EPA doesn’t even regulate or monitor DCDD!

    Therefore, the EPA’s report is incomplete and the true levels of dioxin are unknown.

    Agent Orange GMOs

    The sun is setting on Monsanto’s empire as their glyphosate herbicide is losing its effectiveness due to super weeds that have developed a tolerance to their glyphosate poison. Dow is slated to produce the next generation of GMOs which will include 2,4-D resistant corn, soy and cotton.

    Farmers who don’t want to take the trouble to use targeted weed control and hand picking weeds prefer GMO products because they can just spray their crops with huge doses of herbicide and forget about them until harvest. From 1996 to 2008, GMO crops were responsible for 383 million pounds of herbicides sprayed on farmland in the US. These are the same genetically modified foods sold on grocery store shelves worldwide.

    Therefore, we can expect a dramatic increase in dioxin production and pollution because Dow’s 2,4-D herbicide resistant crops will be saturated with the tainted herbicide.

    Dow AgroScience & Monsanto

    Dow AgroScience and Monsanto have struck up a partnership to produce stacked trait crops that will be resistant to Dow’s 2,4-D and Monsanto’s glyphosate poisons. It appears that Dow and Monsanto may be creating a cartel arrangement by joining forces to eliminate competition.

    Monsanto and Dow have been able to skate away from accountability for damage caused by their products because diseases like cancer can take years to incubate. Victims are required to prove their injuries were directly caused by exposure to a carcinogen years after the exposure. This is nearly impossible to do. Monsanto and Dow should be made to prove their products are safe. Federal agency (EPA, FDA, USDA, etc) regulations are profoundly ineffective.

    Remediation Clean Up

    The EPA’s assessment will hopefully lead to remediation (clean up) of the environment in areas with high dioxin levels. The costs could be staggering because the proper process for soil remediation is to block tainted soil with concrete barriers to prevent water runoff into steams and then incinerating the soil. Water remediation is even more difficult.

    Dow Chemical appears to be worried about this because they just agreed to buy dioxin contaminated homes near their Michigan dioxin-emitting plant.

    If Monsanto were forced to clean up their pollution, they would go bankrupt.

    Conclusion

    The EPA omitted critical information in its assessment, and current dioxin levels are a significant health risk. Dioxin levels will increase when Dow’s Agent Orange 2,4-D resistant crops are planted.

    The EPA’s lack of interest in dioxin DCDD is disgusting. Dioxin DCDD that contaminates 2,4-D herbicide is not tested, measured or monitored by the EPA, or even regulated. A Canadian research paper states that dioxin DCDD may have large public health implications due to its prevalence in our food and environment.


    Read more: http://naturalsociety.com/millions-o...#ixzz1nBPjfbZ1

    __________________


    White House blocking release of Monsanto-linked lobbyist’s email

    By Madison Ruppert


    The Obama administration is now blocking a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request filed by an environmental group, Public Employees for Environment Responsibility (PEER), which is attempting to uncover Obama’s connections to Monsanto-linked lobbyists.

    Keep in mind, Monsanto’s products have been linked to some horrific effects on biological systems like the human body, not the least of which is creating necrosis and significant mutations in critical cell types.

    Also quite noteworthy is the fact that Monsanto was actually recently found guilty of chemical poisoning in the case of a French farmer.

    The group suspects the Obama White House of working with these lobbyists to defend genetically engineered (GE) crops and the attempts to get these GE crops planted in wildlife refuges across the United States.


    More at EndtheLie.com - http://EndtheLie.com/2012/02/21/whit...#ixzz1nBSWOwwl

    _____________________


    Pasteurized milk 150 times more contaminated with blood, pus and feces than fresh milk

    Mike Adams
    NaturalNews
    February 22, 2012

    The vaccine-pushing, disease scare-mongering agency known as the CDC has put out a stunning piece of propaganda attacking fresh milk (raw dairy), claiming it is “150 times more dangerous” than pasteurized milk. This is all part of their anti-American agenda to crush food freedom and criminalize fundamental farming practices upon which this very nation was founded. (Yes, George Washington and the founding fathers drank raw milk, grew hemp and even smoked a little weed as medicine.)

    But what the CDC won’t dare reveal to the public is the far more horrifying truth: Pasteurized dairy is produced in the dirtiest milk factories imaginable, where blood, pus, e.coli and other truly dangerous pathogens are routinely bottled into milk containers and fed to consumers.

    That’s the whole point of pasteurization, you see: To kill everything that might be alive in their ultra-dirty milk. The real purpose of pasteurization is not to simply “make milk safe” as is claimed by the CDC, but rather to allow the dairy industry to operate DIRTY. It’s so much easier to just cook the crap out of the milk (yes, there’s fecal matter in it) than to clean up their operations, get it?

    Thanks to pasteurization, conventional (non-organic, non-raw) dairy operators have no need to thoroughly wash their milking machines, no need to sterilize any milk containers, no need to wash their hands, and no need to maintain a clean milking environment whatsoever. It’s just total filth with festering diseased animals dying on the floor and being physically abused by the corporate dairy operators (see video links, below).

    Dairy cows are routinely abused and left to suffer in total filth

    Want to know how conventional (pasteurized) dairy cows are really treated? Here’s something the CDC won’t show you.

    Watch this highly disturbing video of dairy cows being kicked, tortured, abused and injured by conventional dairy workers. This was filmed with an undercover spy cam (WARNING: DISTURBING IMAGERY):

    (calz note - won't even put the youtubes here ... if you have the stomach to watch go to site)


    http://www.naturalnews.com/035039_ra...rized_CDC.html
    Last edited by Calz; 23rd February 2012 at 05:42.
    Listened intently for the Sound of One Hand Clapping ... only to hear the sound of the other hand Whacking me Upside the Head!

    Don't forget to take the time each day to smile.

  37. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Calz For This Post:

    Nora (23rd February 2012), RunningDeer (6th March 2012)

  38. Link to Post #40
    Canada Avalon Member Nathalie's Avatar
    Join Date
    29th July 2011
    Location
    In a tiny Burgundian boondock...
    Age
    47
    Posts
    92
    Thanks
    109
    Thanked 344 times in 78 posts

    Default Re: Enough ... at what point do we finally say ENOUGH!!!

    One thing for sure, as I'm reading the posts and someone mentioned it somewhere above, is that if we want a new world, a new paradigm, we NEED to make the community a priority. If it's no good for the community, then it's no good for me. Your friends and family and yourself CANNOT come first. Whatever decision is made has to be for the good of the group and that's all there is to it. You can't get rich at the expense of others. You can't have a glass of water if that's all that there is left. Everybody can have a sip. A bigger sip for kids and the elderly. We are one and the same separated into individuals, let's not forget that. Call me an ant or a communist, this is not negociable!

  39. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Nathalie For This Post:

    Calz (23rd February 2012), Dennis Leahy (23rd February 2012), Nora (23rd February 2012), RunningDeer (6th March 2012)

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts