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Thread: NSA voices concern over power grid attack.

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    United States Avalon Member Solstyse's Avatar
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    Default NSA voices concern over power grid attack.

    "The director of the National Security Agency has warned that the hacking group Anonymous could have the ability within the next year or two to bring about a limited power outage through a cyberattack.

    Gen. Keith Alexander, the director, provided his assessment in meetings at the White House and in other private sessions, according to people familiar with the gatherings. While he hasn't publicly expressed his concerns about the potential for Anonymous to disrupt power supplies, he has warned publicly about an emerging ability by cyberattackers to disable or even damage computer networks
    ."


    That is the national media's official downplayed report.


    "The Wall Street Journal’s sources say the director admitted his concern over the hacktivist group at the White House, though he has made no public statement regarding this group in particular. But cyber security is a huge issue for the government as Anonymous continues to “attack for good,” with the expectation of exposing corruption. Anonymous routinely attacks the government on what it calls “F**k FBI Friday,” and recently hacked into a phone call between the FBI and Scotland Yard, where the two agencies were discussing the group itself."



    Propaganda it it's best


    "Anonymous, known for supporting freedom of speech and exposing security errors, has enjoyed broad underground support for actions like defending WikiLeaks and attacking Mexican drug cartels. But support has waned, after alleged Anons demanded bribes from Symantec last week. The group also threatened to shut down the Internet on March 31 for Operation Global Blackout, an audacious, if not impossible, plan."


    Anonymous's response.



    "Why would Anons shut off a power grid? There are ppl on life support / other vital services that rely on it. Try again NSA."


    http://anonops.blogspot.com/2012/02/...threat-to.html


    Why would Anon attack the power supply. It's greatest weapon is the internet and computers. Which need the power.
    I am looking at this one of two ways.
    1. Someone or something is going to attack/shut down the power grid and they are setting up Anon for the fall.
    2. Its just plain old fear mongering to bring down public opinion and support for the group.
    This is news, this is happening now!

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    Default Re: NSA voices concern over power grid attack.

    There's also major CMEs and that theory has been going on for some time now and how many people are aware of the effect of the changing sun on this planet?

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    Default Re: NSA voices concern over power grid attack.

    How many people are aware of mass intention ? How many people know how effective a group of coordinated, focused and benevolent people can be in determing outcomes on a large scale?

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    Default Re: NSA voices concern over power grid attack.

    Lies, lies and more Lies. Spidey sense is tingling. Smelling manure again. THE NSA AGENCY LMFAO. This 3 letter alphabet organization is the first to be arrested forthwith, IMO.
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    Default Re: NSA voices concern over power grid attack.

    Quote Posted by Anam Cara (here)
    There's also major CMEs and that theory has been going on for some time now and how many people are aware of the effect of the changing sun on this planet?
    By CME's I am assuming you mean Coronal Mass Ejections. I think quite a few people know of the effects of the sun on the planet.

    But this thread isn't really about the sun.
    Last edited by Solstyse; 23rd February 2012 at 23:46. Reason: By me for me

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    Default Re: NSA voices concern over power grid attack.

    Lol well they wouldnt do that, and why would they, find this amusing ... so if the grid goes its is Anonymus ... so they try to use the blame game as they know the grid can go with a solar flair ! Come on.
    The planet have given you all that you have !
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    Default Re: NSA voices concern over power grid attack.

    From the OP:
    Quote "The director of the National Security Agency has warned that the hacking group Anonymous could have the ability within the next year or two to bring about a limited power outage through a cyberattack.
    Well, if its NSA:s job to warn for all abilities different groups have, they gonna
    have a hard future. If they feel threatened by those abilities, its good, says a
    lot about NSA and their purpose. Seems most like they are trying to portray
    Anonymous as the bad guys. Maybe frame them as scapegoats in some false
    flag event or sth. So, I conclude that abilities are the probem of the day.


    We are free, have always been. LOL

    There is no sharing.

    Im responible for wot I say, not wot you understand

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    Default Re: NSA voices concern over power grid attack.

    Blame the outages caused by solar flares that NASA has been warning us will hit hard in 2013 (I bet they won't be mentioning that much anymore - Like Hilary said "never let a good disaster go to waste") on the group you want to get rid of. Another problem solved for the elite.

    Oops I got NASA confused with NSA ... maybe they should get their stories straight -- are outages going to be caused by flares like NASA said or by Anonamous like the NSA said? ... once again time to play pin the lie on the government agency!
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 24th February 2012 at 00:48.
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    Default Re: NSA voices concern over power grid attack.

    [QUOTE=jorr lundstrom;434840]From the OP:
    Quote "The director of the National Security Agency has warned that the hacking group Anonymous could have the ability within the next year or two to bring about a limited power outage through a cyberattack.
    Well, if its NSA:s job to warn for all abilities different groups have, they gonna
    have a hard future. If they feel threatened by those abilities, its good, says a
    lot about NSA and their purpose. Seems most like they are trying to portray
    Anonymous as the bad guys. Maybe frame them as scapegoats in some false
    flag event or sth.
    So, I conclude that abilities are the probem of the day.



    That's funny stuff, made me laugh.
    Last edited by Solstyse; 24th February 2012 at 00:14. Reason: Took out big fancy picture in quote.

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    Default Re: NSA voices concern over power grid attack.

    They ran out of tricks, their bag is empty. Time for some arrests now.

    George Walker Bush is the first to get the silver bracelets. IMHO.
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    Default Re: NSA voices concern over power grid attack.

    Here is an article written by Jim Stone quite an interesting read concerning usa power grid and those that are wanting to tamper with it
    POWER GRID TAMPERING WILL END AN ERA
    http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/grid.html

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    Default Re: NSA voices concern over power grid attack.

    Quote Posted by Patrikas (here)
    Here is an article written by Jim Stone quite an interesting read concerning usa power grid and those that are wanting to tamper with it
    POWER GRID TAMPERING WILL END AN ERA
    http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/grid.html
    That is a scary article. A couple of the finer points for people who don't like to link out of Avalon, or just don't feel like reading it all.

    "A recent AP report states that there is a proposal in place to change the frequency various parts of the national electrical grid run at. The frequency differences will be minor, but will force an end to the national grid as we know it. The only way frequencies can be different at all in separate locations around the nation is to not have a grid at all.
    They are attempting to childishly play this down as something that will mess up clocks. But what it really means is that they are going to dismantle the national power grid entirely."


    "First of all, they are saying that this is going to be a "year long experiment". It won't be. Since dismantling the grid amounts to an act of war, once it is dismantled we will not get it back. This "experiment" is exactly what you would want to do to a nation as a pre-emptive measure before attacking it"

    "Here they say they will allow "more frequency variation". Well, that means that after most of a century of having zero frequency variation, that there will now be frequency variation. America's power grid has been perfectly synchronized since 1930 and has never varied by more than 1/10th of a cycle (1/600th of a second) from coast to coast in over 80 years. This is due largely to the fact that the grid causes generating facilities to lock into each other, and mimic each other's phasing exactly. Any deviation in any one facility against the predominant phasing of the grid will cause it to lose efficiency and in extreme cases be destroyed."

    "Folks, you cannot have any frequency variation on an interconnected electrical grid. This is because our 60 hz AC is a rising and falling wave form which goes from negative to positive 60 times a second. Negative and positive ALWAYS have to line up. If you deviate from a 60 hz frequency by even 0.001 hz on only one part of the grid, all it will take is ten seconds for that variation in frequency to cause it to begin rising and falling opposite to the rest of the grid. That would represent a positive to negative electrical short right from within the fabric of the grid itself. So there is no such thing as a "slightly faster running grid" out east, it's a bold faced lie completely counter to the laws of physics."

    "There is zero frequency variation on the grid between east and west coasts. It is physically impossible for them to vary by even 1/10th of a cycle (1/600th of a second) per year. ANY drift will cause immediate phase cancellation with other parts of the grid resulting in immediate grid failure. The entire grid HAS TO go up or down SIMULTANEOUSLY. There is NO SUCH THING as a frequency variation in relation to another connected area."

    There is a ton of information in his report. Lots of math and scientific stuff. Time calculations and all that jazz.

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    Default Re: NSA voices concern over power grid attack.

    Quote Posted by whitefeather (here)
    lies, lies and more lies. Spidey sense is tingling. Smelling manure again. The nsa agency lmfao. This 3 letter alphabet organization is the first to be arrested forthwith, imo.

    rotflmao- ditto_ditto

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    Default Re: NSA voices concern over power grid attack.

    Like I said in another thread, Anon is not the cause of ANY of the things they are being blamed for. After I found the article last night where Anon denounced the posting of a March 31 Global Blackout of the net, I realized they were being set-up so the politicians would pass a damning internet regulation bill. The "controllers" are simply looking for a scapegoat for when they initiate the above mentioned scenario. That explains why one member who responded in a thread here who participated in a FEMA exercise said the entire south/southeast would be cut off from the grid-supposedly to "prevent the rest of the grid from failing". Nice find, Patrikas.
    Last edited by Quantum Logic; 24th February 2012 at 03:29.
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    Default Re: NSA voices concern over power grid attack.

    Quote Posted by Solstyse (here)
    There is a ton of information in his report. Lots of math and scientific stuff. Time calculations and all that jazz.
    I think Jim Stone is making a key mistake. The article he is playing off seems to be a June 24, 2011 AP based article, such as found here (Stone's link to this article on Yahoo is broken, but he left enough clues behind that I'm pretty sure this is the one.)

    The key mistake I believe Stone is making is thinking that there is one North American lower 48 US state power grid. I believe that are three major (and some minor) grids, not one. The major grids are the East, West and Texas inteconnections.

    That AP article is not claiming that generators will be allowed to drift out of sync with each other within one grid... Jim Stone is right that that would not work.

    It is claiming that the separate grids will be allowed to drift relative to each other. So long as two different grids are not sharing electricity, it is not a problem for them to be out of sync.

    All the things that Stone got excited about in his article are no longer an issue, once one understands this one critical detail.
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    Default Re: NSA voices concern over power grid attack.

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by Solstyse (here)
    There is a ton of information in his report. Lots of math and scientific stuff. Time calculations and all that jazz.
    I think Jim Stone is making a key mistake. The article he is playing off seems to be a June 24, 2011 AP based article, such as found here (Stone's link to this article on Yahoo is broken, but he left enough clues behind that I'm pretty sure this is the one.)

    The key mistake I believe Stone is making is thinking that there is one North American lower 48 US state power grid. I believe that are three major (and some minor) grids, not one. The major grids are the East, West and Texas inteconnections.

    That AP article is not claiming that generators will be allowed to drift out of sync with each other within one grid... Jim Stone is right that that would not work.

    It is claiming that the separate grids will be allowed to drift relative to each other. So long as two different grids are not sharing electricity, it is not a problem for them to be out of sync.

    All the things that Stone got excited about in his article are no longer an issue, once one understands this one critical detail.
    I am not so sold on your idea of three separate power grids. Maybe it is one big power grid with three districts?

    "The North American Electric Reliability Corp. runs the nation's interlocking web of transmission lines and power plants. A June 14 company presentation spelled out the potential effects of the change: East Coast clocks may run as much as 20 minutes fast over a year, but West Coast clocks are only likely to be off by 8 minutes. In Texas, it's only an expected speedup of 2 minutes.

    Some parts of the grid, like in the East, tend to run faster than others. Errors add up. If the grid averages just over 60 cycles a second, clocks that rely on the grid will gain 14 seconds per day, according to the company's presentation."

    "Some parts of the grid like in the East." Not the Eastern Grid.

    Or if you will. You have 3 major sectors of the US electrical grid.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=110997398

    It's one main grid split into 3 parts, but an awful lot of power is running through those yellow lines.

    They want to tear down the lines, without even knowing the full ramifications.

    Tweaking the power grid's frequency is expensive and takes a lot of effort, said Joe McClelland, head of electric reliability for the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.
    "Is anyone using the grid to keep track of time?" McClelland said. "Let's see if anyone complains if we eliminate it."


    No one is quite sure what will be affected

    In the future, more use of renewable energy from the sun and wind will mean more variations in frequency on the grid, McClelland said. Solar and wind power can drop off the grid with momentary changes in weather. Correcting those deviations is expensive and requires instant backup power to be always at the ready, he said.

    Something is up with out power.
    Last edited by Solstyse; 24th February 2012 at 04:53. Reason: edited to add quotes

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    Default Re: NSA voices concern over power grid attack.

    Quote Posted by Solstyse (here)
    "Some parts of the grid like in the East." Not the Eastern Grid.
    You're quoting an AP wire article there ... one cannot rely too heavily on exact wording in such articles.

    Notice that the article mentions three "parts" - East, West and Texas. I'd guess that the article writer chose to use the word "parts" instead of "interconnections" to avoid overly technical language.
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    Default Re: NSA voices concern over power grid attack.

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by Solstyse (here)
    "Some parts of the grid like in the East." Not the Eastern Grid.
    You're quoting an AP wire article there ... one cannot rely too heavily on exact wording in such articles.

    Notice that the article mentions three "parts" - East, West and Texas. I'd guess that the article writer chose to use the word "parts" instead of "interconnections" to avoid overly technical language.
    Ok then, the very work interconnected means they are all connected no?
    It is funny when you look up Interconnected in the dictionary you get......:to connect with another, too become mutually connected.

    There are solar flares threatening power lines, Anon is supposedly going to attack the power grid. And now we want to take it down without fully knowing what will happen. Too see if anyone misses it? I am not overly concerned about the few seconds/ minutes we might be off or lose. There is a bigger picture.

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    Default Re: NSA voices concern over power grid attack.

    Quote Posted by Solstyse (here)
    Ok then, the very work interconnected means they are all connected no?
    The Eastern Interconnection is a bunch of power generators that are interconnected .

    Ditto, the Western and Texas Interconnections.

    Try doing a Google search for "eastern western texas interconnections" to learn more of this.

    See for example this result, which I found on that search 2. Technical Aspects of Grid Interconnection (pdf)
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    Default Re: NSA voices concern over power grid attack.

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by Solstyse (here)
    Ok then, the very work interconnected means they are all connected no?
    The Eastern Interconnection is a bunch of power generators that are interconnected .

    Ditto, the Western and Texas Interconnections.

    Try doing a Google search for "eastern western texas interconnections" to learn more of this.

    See for example this result, which I found on that search 2. Technical Aspects of Grid Interconnection (pdf)
    Well I did and I read and I learned.

    The Eastern interconnection by itself has been called the largest machine in the world, consisting of thousands of
    generators, millions of kilometers of transmission and distribution lines, and more than a billion different
    electrical loads. Despite this complexity, the network operates in synchronism as a single system.


    HVDC (high voltage direct current) permits the asynchronous interconnection of networks that
    operate at different frequencies, or are otherwise incompatible, allowing them to exchange power without
    requiring the tight coordination of a synchronous network.


    But that's not the entire story.

    There are number of technical rationales for grid interconnections, many of which have economic components
    as well (as described in Chapter 3 of this Report). Technical rationales for grid interconnection include:


    Improving reliability and pooling reserves
    Reduced investment in generating capacity
    Improving load factor and increasing load diversity
    Blah blah blah.

    Some costs and benefits of interconnections are difficult to quantify, but as a rough figure of merit it
    has been estimated that interconnections in North America have resulted in an overall annual cost savings of $20 billion in the 1990s, and that the Western European interconnection has resulted in reduced capacity requirements of 7-10 percent.



    So there are 3 main grids but those grids are still all connected, and apparently for good reasons. Although it was nice to learn that each one can run independently.

    So lets quote from your original post.

    "The key mistake I believe Stone is making is thinking that there is one North American lower 48 US state power grid. I believe that are three major (and some minor) grids, not one. The major grids are the East, West and Texas inteconnections."

    You are correct in that there are three major power grids in the US. I questioned, you gave a link, I was wrong, I am sorry. But they are all still connected.

    It is claiming that the separate grids will be allowed to drift relative to each other. So long as two different grids are not sharing electricity, it is not a problem for them to be out of sync.

    Assuming everything runs perfectly they won't have to share power. But how often does everything work out perfectly. Eventually someone is going to have to leach power off of somebody else, and when they are out of sync what happens?

    I still say this is just a small drop in a bigger pool. They are prepping us for power outages, rolling blackouts and worse.
    I am not 100 % sure what you are trying to convey in your responses. Are you saying there is no threat to the US Power Grid? ( I am growing tired of typing that )

    Or are you just questioning Jim Stones article? Which I will admit sounded good so I jumped on it without full knowledge of the US power structure.
    Cause this post wasn't supposed to be about Jim Stones article .

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