DIY easy, high dose anti-oxidant therapy

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by starchild111 (here)
Hey Paul, does it improve ones energy?

My energy is up over a few years ago ... but I've totally overhauled my diet ... nothing I eat now did I eat then, and vice versa. So I've no idea what caused what.

Nutrition recommendations remind me of car maintenance recommendations. If you're out of gas, then a gallon of gas will seem like a "magic bullet" ... getting you going again. If your battery is dead, then a battery charge or replacement will seem like a "magic bullet". Stories of nutrition on the web (and in books and in person) are filled with "This is It! The Magic Bullet! It cured me!". Well ... that probably just means that was the key thing they were missing .

Good car maintenance involves keeping gas in the car, replacing belts, tires, batteries, oil and filters, and other such things. It also involves keeping out of accidents, not rev'ing the engine too fast, and being a bit gentle on the car. They all matter. Good nutrition involves getting a variety of substances that are good for you, and avoiding or minimizing a variety of substances that are bad for you. It all matters! Though one need not be perfect ... just "good enough" or a little better. The body is pretty flexible in these matters.

The best ever post I've seen, here or on any other forum, on what provides overall good nutrition was posted on this forum by Ultima Thule over a year ago: Does anyone have information on natural supplements - Post #19.

Posted by starchild111 (here)
is that cleaner, like a jewelry type ultrasonic cleaner, or is it specially made for food preparation

Do a search for "CD-7810A" to find places to purchase the cleaner I currently use (see the black cleaner in post #8 above.) It is an ordinary ultrasonic cleaner as used on jewelry (though not the cheapest such .. I already wore out a cheaper one.)

[nf857]

Hi,

All sounds promising, how much do the machines cost? Where can you get them? Also where do you get the other products from? Im in the UK, if anybody knows? Do we know what effects it has on M.E./Fibromyalgia???

Would love to hear hows its helped people, im sick of the medical establishment, however also sick of trying the natural routes, but happy to give things like this a go as it cetainly can't do no harm!!! xxx

[Alan]

Posted by Paul (here)
P.S. -- I am thinking of trying potassium bicarbonate instead of sodium bicarbonate. I am always looking for ways to increase the potassium in my diet. However food grade potassium carbonate is difficult to find ... and supplements over 99 mg of potassium are not allowed in the US. So I'm probably being a fool to consider this.

Why not just buy potassium ascorbate?

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by alamojo (here)
Why not just buy potassium ascorbate?

You're a genius . Here's some from one of my favorite vendors: Potassium Ascorbate (Wholesale Nutrition)

I am a long time happy customer of their C-Salts product, which is a mix of potassium, calcium, magnesium and zinc salts of ascorbate.

Indeed - that's what I might consider using in my liposomal Vitamin C -- C-Salts from Wholesale Nutrition. Cool.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by alamojo (here)
Why not just buy potassium ascorbate?

Thanks to a link I received from a member via a PM, I am reading the posts by Steve Brown on the Vitamin C Foundation Discussion Forum. He seems well informed regarding the chemistry and physiology of various forms of Vitamin C. Apparently sodium ascorbate is not such a bad idea ... and is the safest ascorbate salt for IV use (so likely for liposomal use as well.)

[Arrowwind]

Posted by starchild111 (here)
Hey Paul, does it improve ones energy? I have terible chronic fatigue, maybe this would help, and is that cleaner, like a jewelry type ultrasonic cleaner, or is it specially made for food preparation, and where do you purchase something like that? Thank you in advance. Congrats on your successfulo story !!!!!

chronic fatigue is often caused by the epstein barr virus and it is a protracted case, often lasting a lifetime. Doctors dont know how to cure it but there are several ways.. MMS will get rid of it in a week or so. An herbal formula called Monobrex has a reputation for cure also. Seems to me like vitamin c in high concentrations could do it also.

Fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue are usually basket diagnosis. ... in other words they symtoms are telling you the name of the disease not the actual disease itself.
Doctors dont know generally the cause so they cant cure it. Some smart docs will do an epstin barr test for chronic fatigue, but still they dont know much about what to do about it.

These can have several causes, with Fibromyalgia being the most trick from what I have noted. It could be caused by a virus, a deficiency, a heavy metal toxicity, candida or god knows what else. I have seem people get better from it with MMS and others that have not. Vitamin c in large dosages may help... as it is antiviral and can detox metals. You still may need some supplementation of correctly selected minerals... but of course always look at magnesium.. Dr Han Naiper says that magnesium orate is the way to go. He has written on this and done research on the topic... and he is one of the greatest physcians we have ever had. Minerals was his thing. But I have also seen reports of fibro getting better from MMS too, is anti microbial and will also detox heavy metals.

[Sidney]

Posted by Arrowwind (here)

Posted by starchild111 (here)
Hey Paul, does it improve ones energy? I have terible chronic fatigue, maybe this would help, and is that cleaner, like a jewelry type ultrasonic cleaner, or is it specially made for food preparation, and where do you purchase something like that? Thank you in advance. Congrats on your successfulo story !!!!!

chronic fatigue is often caused by the epstein barr virus and it is a protracted case, often lasting a lifetime. Doctors dont know how to cure it but there are several ways.. MMS will get rid of it in a week or so. An herbal formula called Monobrex has a reputation for cure also. Seems to me like vitamin c in high concentrations could do it also.

Fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue are usually basket diagnosis. ... in other words they symtoms are telling you the name of the disease not the actual disease itself.
Doctors dont know generally the cause so they cant cure it. Some smart docs will do an epstin barr test for chronic fatigue, but still they dont know much about what to do about it.

These can have several causes, with Fibromyalgia being the most trick from what I have noted. It could be caused by a virus, a deficiency, a heavy metal toxicity, candida or god knows what else. I have seem people get better from it with MMS and others that have not. Vitamin c in large dosages may help... as it is antiviral and can detox metals. You still may need some supplementation of correctly selected minerals... but of course always look at magnesium.. Dr Han Naiper says that magnesium orate is the way to go. He has written on this and done research on the topic... and he is one of the greatest physcians we have ever had. Minerals was his thing. But I have also seen reports of fibro getting better from MMS too, is anti microbial and will also detox heavy metals.

I have stage 4 Lyme disease, diagnosed 7 years ago, after going undiagnosed for 20 or so years. Stage 4 lyme is the same as having both CFS and FM. Ugg
I have given up all dairy, wheat sugar, and just about everything but vegis and fruit.

[Arrowwind]

Posted by starchild111 (here)
[


I have stage 4 Lyme disease, diagnosed 7 years ago, after going undiagnosed for 20 or so years. Stage 4 lyme is the same as having both CFS and FM. Ugg
I have given up all dairy, wheat sugar, and just about everything but vegis and fruit.

So much more than chronic fatigue. You may want to read my article on Lyme disease on my blog. The doctor who does this treats lots of lyme cases. They fly in to see him from all around the nation. I interviewed him recently for a book Im working on, Its the real deal. My neighbor cured his lyme with this protocol and he thinks he had it for over 20 years. he remembers the rash. He was pretty sick, nearly died when he started at this clinic. They saved him the first time around with natural therapies but it returned, By that time they developed the new protocol which he did at home. He is cured now.
Of course if you go to the clinic they may do more than this depending on how sick you are, including IV nutrients and a host of other things individually selected for the patient to boost them... but this is the protocol in essence to deal directly with the lyme.
http://www.healthsalon.org/505/cure-chronic-lyme/

[Cilka]

I bought an auto zap 5 from this guy over a year ago, he lives in Abbotsford, BC. I love it, I use it 3 times a week and I take 4000UI of Vit D every day and I have not been sick since. There is definitely something true about Dr. Hulda's research.

[TheSwede]

Hey Paul,

If I follow you're receipt, what is the recommended daily dose? I don't wanna OD on this or is it harmless when adding the baking soda? Does the baking soda act as a neutralizer for the low PH of the Vitamin C?

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by TheSwede (here)
Hey Paul,

If I follow you're receipt, what is the recommended daily dose? I don't wanna OD on this or is it harmless when adding the baking soda? Does the baking soda act as a neutralizer for the low PH of the Vitamin C?

As with any medical or health matters, I cannot recommend for another.

Personally I take a several forms of Vitamin C, including Wholesale Nutrition's C-Salts, liposomal Vitamin C, NOW C-500 Chewable and Swanson's Longevital (a multivitamin with ample Vitamin C). I take to bowel tolerance - perhaps 5 or 10 grams total Vit C per day. Some who have health problems can tolerate more. Others, who are perhaps smaller or have different constitutions, can tolerate less.

The baking soda does neutralize the acidity, as would using an ascorbate form, such as sodium ascorbate.

However, as you can see from my several changing and conflicting posts above, I am still experimenting with this myself. That's a personal choice ... that I cannot recommend to anyone else.

[TheSwede]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by TheSwede (here)
Hey Paul,

If I follow you're receipt, what is the recommended daily dose? I don't wanna OD on this or is it harmless when adding the baking soda? Does the baking soda act as a neutralizer for the low PH of the Vitamin C?

As with any medical or health matters, I cannot recommend for another.

Personally I take a several forms of Vitamin C, including Wholesale Nutrition's C-Salts, liposomal Vitamin C, NOW C-500 Chewable and Swanson's Longevital (a multivitamin with ample Vitamin C). I take to bowel tolerance - perhaps 5 or 10 grams total Vit C per day. Some who have health problems can tolerate more. Others, who are perhaps smaller or have different constitutions, can tolerate less.

The baking soda does neutralize the acidity, as would using an ascorbate form, such as sodium ascorbate.

However, as you can see from my several changing and conflicting posts above, I am still experimenting with this myself. That's a personal choice ... that I cannot recommend to anyone else.

Ok, thanks for the input. I take it one detect when having to much but stomach sickness from you're statement about bowel tolerance? Just as a general question to detect when one hit their limitation of dosage.

[Nathalie]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Paul (here)
I probably got them from some random post on the web .

I am not a chemist ... I should have posted that disclaimer with the original recipe ... oops.

Ok - time to research this a bit. From http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-l...msg125108.html

Brooks, I'm curious why you recommend a 1:1 ratio of AA:BS for creating the
sodium ascorbate. I did some googling and it seems most people recommend
2:1 for AA:BS.

I found the following in the Vitamin C Foundation forums, which explains the
2:1 ratio:

NaHCO3 + C6H8O6 --> NaC6H7O6 + H2CO3

One mole of sodium bicarbonate is 84 grams, and one mole of ascorbic acid
is 176 grams. So, the correct (stoichiometric) ratio of sodium bicarbonate
to ascorbic acid is 84/176 = 0.477. For example, it would take 477
milligrams of sodium bicarbonate to neutralize 1000 milligrams of ascorbic
acid.

So, by weight, yes, twice as much ascorbic acid (AA) as sodium bicarbonate (Baking Soda, BS) ... slightly more than twice to be precise ... 176 to 84 ... by weight. This provides an equal number of (the heavier) molecules of AA and molecules of BS, and the chemical reaction, above, uses one molecule of each.

But baking soda (BS) is more dense than ascorbic acid (AA) powder. Using my nice kitchen scales, I find that a quarter cup of AA weighs 69 grams, and a quarter cup of BS weighs 93 grams (approximately.)

So if you want 0.477 as much BS by weight, you'd want 0.477 times 69/93 as much by volume ... even less BS, as it is more dense. 0.477 * 69 / 93 ==> 0.354

So, for each Tablespoon of AA, I should have slightly more than one third (0.354) of a Tablespoon of BS. Aha - but there are three teaspoons (tsp) in a tablespoon (Tbsp). So this is easy ... one tsp of BS per one Tbsp of AA. Cool!

I have used my super admin powers to correct my recipe above in my post, and quoted in another post.

P.S. -- I am thinking of trying potassium bicarbonate instead of sodium bicarbonate. I am always looking for ways to increase the potassium in my diet. However food grade potassium carbonate is difficult to find ... and supplements over 99 mg of potassium are not allowed in the US. So I'm probably being a fool to consider this.

Be careful what you add in your magic potion! You can't just add potassium, it has a direct effect on your heart! Maybe it would be wise to get a blood test before to see what you really need... Just saying...

[Nathalie]

Is this something you guys take on a daily basis on is it a few weeks/months at a time - aside from when you're sick?

[Arrowwind]

My husband and I take oral vitamin c 4 grams a day on a daily basis. As I said, we have not started the lipsomal yet, but I intend to. We will take one teaspoon a day when well. I think we will likely take 1/2 teaspoon in am and 1/2 in pm. Vitamin c does not stay in the body for very long. you use it right up. Since this application brings the price way down we can do the higher dosage.

[Alan]

Posted by Arrowwind (here)
My husband and I take oral vitamin c 4 grams a day on a daily basis. As I said, we have not started the lipsomal yet, but I intend to. We will take one teaspoon a day when well. I think we will likely take 1/2 teaspoon in am and 1/2 in pm. Vitamin c does not stay in the body for very long. you use it right up. Since this application brings the price way down we can do the higher dosage.

Do you take it all in one dose?

Is it ascorbic acid or some other form?

I can only tolerate about a gram of AA a day, any more than that give me gas.

[Arrowwind]

Posted by alamojo (here)
[Do you take it all in one dose?

Is it ascorbic acid or some other form?

I can only tolerate about a gram of AA a day, any more than that give me gas.

It is ascorbic acid and we generally take it all at once

Because you can only tolerate one gram a day it indicates that that is what you should be taking. Do you eat lots of fresh fruit or get vitamin c from other sources. People who need the vitamin c usually can take much more before they get stomach symptoms. Perhaps you dont need much more.

When my husband gets sick he can take up to 15 grams before he gets the runs.. but he's a smoker so he utilizes a lot of vitamin c.

With the lipsomal c you will not get any GI symptoms for it is coated and largely bypasses the gut for it is readily absorbed.

[Alan]

Yes I once bought the Livon Labs LET C (which uses sodium ascorbate, not ascorbic acid), which has 1 gram per serving. I was able to take 3-4 of these per day with no gastric symptoms. OTOH it did not seem to benefit me so I did not continue with it.

[frozen alchemy]

BUMP! There's a fascinating ongoing discussion about liposomal Vitamin C going on over at ATS:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread846311/pg1

[delfine]

Loads of excellent info. Bookmarking this for in-depth reading later. Thanks!