Maybe time to take a serious look at David Wilcock

[gripreaper]

That's beautiful writing nonesuch. best I've seen in a long time.

[onawah]

DW has displayed his deep vulnerability and human imperfections on a worldwide stage for all to see.
Did he do himself a disservice; did he do us a service by providing a mirror for us,
to see the edge of the cliff on which we are now poised?
That question can only be answered by each one, individually.

He has made huge mistakes, as we all do,
and had some wonderful victories too along the way,
and he's still only in his 40s.
Perhaps his greatest service has been to captivate a large audience of relatively naive people who were new to the Alternative Community
and help them to realize they were asleep to a great deal of serious undercover stuff that has been going on in the world.
And he has provided a genuine service by organizing a lot of information
in a way that will help many to understand what's been going on behind the scenes
much more quickly and easily than those of us who have been sifting and slogging our way through a lot of uncoordinated information from many different sources,
trying to get an overview, for years now...

He has disappointed many with some unapologetic flakiness which seems to be due to his strong desire to keep his celebrity status and his money making potential.
And it seems very likely he has been misled down a path of some dead ends, which hopefully has been instructive enough that he will come clean with himself and with us all, in time.

That ego was really in need of some humbling and reality checks.
And if he was misled, then obviously his intuitive abilities are not as acute as he supposed,which would be very good for him to see.

I think it would be a good idea if he would step back now and do some deep processing.
He's been on a roller coaster ride for quite some time, and that can get very wearing after awhile.
Celebrities tend to burn out young.

[9eagle9]

My response to a post like that is reframe that Avlaon is supposed to be informational and isn't strictly a religous temple or strictly a consciousness clearing workshop.

Posted by Sebastasoul (here)

Posted by Carmody (here)
I'm thinking of starting a thread called:

"Time to take a serious look at the people who bitch about David Wilcock."

I'm barely half joking. Barely.

To paraphrase and add to what 9eagle9 aptly pointed out, why isn't a new thread far more aptly:

"Time to take a serious look at the people in a forum dedicated to discussing the validity of whistleblowers who bitch about anyone who wants to discuss the validity of whistleblowers."

[foreverfan]

I've been following David Wilcock since 2008 and watched most of his videos. He mostly does research and then makes this information available. He does a great job of this.

About his Financial Tyranny thesis... If in fact what he say is True....

If this information became public information without a new system being in place to take over, it would create a run on the banking system that would make 1929 look pale in comparison since our Fiat Currency situation is much worse now. This is the MAJOR REASON that nothing can be done at this time. Until then we are all waiting.

Saying that Ben Fulford and David Wilcock are plants or mind controlled individuals is hardly fair considering how they are putting themselves out there and risking their necks. I certainly hope for the worlds sake that something happens to straighten out this whole banking/debt mess.

Remember, most of David's work is a regurgitation of others works and he doesn't take credit for it being his. Sure he makes a few dollars off of it. That shouldn't discredit the wealth of information or make it any less relevant. He simply put it out there. I applaud his efforts at disclosure. Time will tell if he's wrong. He very well may be.

Last I checked 155 World Bankers have resigned, so something big is up. Just because it isn't reported on the MSM, doesn't make David a complete fraud. It simply can't be reported correctly since the MSM is controlled by the banking industry and REAL DISCLOSURE at this time would create a run on the banking industry.

I look for a military coup to take place before we get disclosure. Until then, it's the status quo.
It has to be that way.

FF

[ljwheat]

Maybe time to take a serious look at _________________ < you

Enter your Name? If I enter it for you. All of a sudden its slanderous, personal not allowed as the moderator’s would flag me for doing so.

Some one explain to me, what in gods name is the difference, its ok to dehumanize a person out side this membership. ??? If DW was an Avalonian member in good standing. How would this thread run under that flag, I do not see a difference. Explain it to me as you would to a little child. I don’t get it? Its like standing in a down pour looking up at the sky complaining you ass off. Why not get out of the rain. The sun will shine once again wait for it.

My dad worked on a turkey farm and he said that domestic turkey’s are so dumb they have to be herded back under shelter when it rains , or they would literally drown looking up with there moth open. ( Domesticated )? (Me)

John XXX

[waves]

Posted by ljwheat (here)
Maybe time to take a serious look at _________________ < you

Enter your Name? If I enter it for you. All of a sudden its slanderous, personal not allowed as the moderator’s would flag me for doing so.

Some one explain to me, what in gods name is the difference, its ok to dehumanize a person out side this membership. ??? If DW was an Avalonian in good standing. How would this thread run under that flag, I do not see a difference. Explain it to me as you would to a little child. I don’t get it? Its like standing in a down pour looking up at the sky complaining you ass off. Why not get out of the rain. The sun will shine once again wait for it.
John XXX

I think this is a good idea to try to carefully answer your question and explain to you and many others who have reacted to my post as if the intent was to slander DW as opposed to contributing to a forum dedicated to comparing notes on the validity of information and informants in a quest for truth as was the stated intent in the OP as "My intention is to lay all the semi-solid pieces of a puzzle I currently see on the table for observation, refrain from conclusions and continue to closely observe to see what puzzle pieces become more solid."

I think the problem that makes for such wide-ranging misinterpretations, erroneous assumptions and emotional reactions to posts has to do with the extremely wide-ranging level of knowledge/awareness of each individual respondee with so much info and disinfo out there, differing interpretations of the same information, and/or differing levels of emotional development of any individual.

I'd think it would be helpful to do this in discourse if you'd be willing. I'd like to begin by asking you a question.

Without doing any more research so we can look at the level of awareness you have responded to the OP from, please tell me what your understanding of MKultra and Monarch is.

Thank you.

[ljwheat]

Posted by Sebastasoul (here)

Posted by ljwheat (here)
Maybe time to take a serious look at _________________ < you

Enter your Name? If I enter it for you. All of a sudden its slanderous, personal not allowed as the moderator’s would flag me for doing so.

Some one explain to me, what in gods name is the difference, its ok to dehumanize a person out side this membership. ??? If DW was an Avalonian in good standing. How would this thread run under that flag, I do not see a difference. Explain it to me as you would to a little child. I don’t get it? Its like standing in a down pour looking up at the sky complaining you ass off. Why not get out of the rain. The sun will shine once again wait for it.
John XXX

I think this is a good idea to try to carefully answer your question and explain to you and many others who have reacted to my post as if the intent was to slander DW as opposed to contributing to a forum dedicated to comparing notes on the validity of information and informants in a quest for truth as was the stated intent in the OP as "My intention is to lay all the semi-solid pieces of a puzzle I currently see on the table for observation, refrain from conclusions and continue to closely observe to see what puzzle pieces become more solid."

I think the problem that makes for such wide-ranging misinterpretations, erroneous assumptions and emotional reactions to posts has to do with the extremely wide-ranging level of knowledge/awareness of each individual respondee with so much info and disinfo out there, differing interpretations of the same information, and/or differing levels of emotional development of any individual.

I'd think it would be helpful to do this in discourse if you'd be willing. I'd like to begin by asking you a question.

Without doing any more research so we can look at the level of awareness you have responded to the OP from, please tell me what your understanding of MKultra and Monarch is.

Thank you.

History! get over it. we all have luggage.

[9eagle9]

Then David would be forced to directly substantiate and debate the claims he makes and because its been demonstrated that he cries a lot when challenged it would be very hard to retain a working membership because we're not supposed to make other members cry. He's much better off defending his position through his fan base so he doesn't have to risk the sorts of the emotional breakdowns that we recently witnessed.

And prefer not to witness here in the forum.

Posted by ljwheat (here)
Maybe time to take a serious look at _________________ < you

Enter your Name? If I enter it for you. All of a sudden its slanderous, personal not allowed as the moderator’s would flag me for doing so.

Some one explain to me, what in gods name is the difference, its ok to dehumanize a person out side this membership. ??? If DW was an Avalonian member in good standing. How would this thread run under that flag, I do not see a difference. Explain it to me as you would to a little child. I don’t get it? Its like standing in a down pour looking up at the sky complaining you ass off. Why not get out of the rain. The sun will shine once again wait for it.

My dad worked on a turkey farm and he said that domestic turkey’s are so dumb they have to be herded back under shelter when it rains , or they would literally drown looking up with there moth open. ( Domesticated )? (Me)

John XXX

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by ljwheat (here)
Some one explain to me, what in gods name is the difference, its ok to dehumanize a person out side this membership. ??? If DW was an Avalonian member in good standing. How would this thread run under that flag, I do not see a difference.

Many of us, myself included, have our various emotionally reactive hot buttons. If you come at someone in a way that hits one of their buttons, they are more likely to respond in a way that lowers the quality of the discussion and distracts from our common effort to find better understanding and awareness.

We allow much more latitude in hitting such hot buttons when the targeted person is not on the forum than when they are, because someone not on the forum is not able to respond defensively on the forum and thereby directly drag the discussion further into the mud. We don't allow infinite latitude even then ... an unexpurgated drunken rant of what I thought of Clinton-Gore ten years ago, or what I thought of Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld more recently (dang - that side sucks too ), would not make a good post, but quite a bit more latitude is allowed.

In other words, we ask that members treat each other with a modicum of respect, to facilitate healthy discussion. We don't ask that members treat all the bastards out there with respect ... too few of us could or would choose to follow that request.

[waves]

Posted by ljwheat (here)
<br>some one explain to me, what in gods name is the difference, its ok to dehumanize a person out side this membership. ??? ...... Explain it to me as you would to a little child. I don’t get it?.....

<br><br>

Posted by sebastasoul (here)
i think this is a good idea to try to carefully answer your question......

<br><br>

Posted by ljwheat (here)
<br>history! Get over it. We all have luggage.

<br><br>

?? Sorry for trying. Thought you were sincerely asking for help.

[songsfortheotherkind]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
Then David would be forced to directly substantiate and debate the claims he makes and because its been demonstrated that he cries a lot when challenged it would be very hard to retain a working membership because we're not supposed to make other members cry. He's much better off defending his position through his fan base so he doesn't have to risk the sorts of the emotional breakdowns that we recently witnessed. And prefer not to witness here in the forum.

That *you personally* prefer not to witness here in the forum. Please make this clear, because I personally have no such preference, I don't have an issue with someone hitting a huge learning curve or personal black hole and having a temporary melt down as a result. It's what they do with it that is interesting to me.

[Borden]

Posted by songsfortheotherkind (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
Then David would be forced to directly substantiate and debate the claims he makes and because its been demonstrated that he cries a lot when challenged it would be very hard to retain a working membership because we're not supposed to make other members cry. He's much better off defending his position through his fan base so he doesn't have to risk the sorts of the emotional breakdowns that we recently witnessed. And prefer not to witness here in the forum.

That *you personally* prefer not to witness here in the forum. Please make this clear, because I personally have no such preference, I don't have an issue with someone hitting a huge learning curve or personal black hole and having a temporary melt down as a result. It's what they do with it that is interesting to me.

That's interesting to me too, but I'm pretty sure there are rules about not making other members cry in the forum. 'Crisis and observation' tests aren't very friendly! Haha, maybe the mods should create a special thread or sub-forum where the gloves are off and only the strong survive! Okay ... maybe not.

Something I find more uncomfortable than crying is fake crying. Passive/aggressive fake crying (and there's a lot of it about) in the face of an attack or an argument disgusts me. Someone genuinely crying does not, whether they're man, woman or child. I think tears are a valuable, powerful, cathartic thing, and to pretend them or to chuck them about all over the place at the drop of a hat isn't good for a person.

Stiff upper lipped Borden

[songsfortheotherkind]

Posted by Borden (here)

Posted by songsfortheotherkind (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
Then David would be forced to directly substantiate and debate the claims he makes and because its been demonstrated that he cries a lot when challenged it would be very hard to retain a working membership because we're not supposed to make other members cry. He's much better off defending his position through his fan base so he doesn't have to risk the sorts of the emotional breakdowns that we recently witnessed. And prefer not to witness here in the forum.

That *you personally* prefer not to witness here in the forum. Please make this clear, because I personally have no such preference, I don't have an issue with someone hitting a huge learning curve or personal black hole and having a temporary melt down as a result. It's what they do with it that is interesting to me.

That's interesting to me too, but I'm pretty sure there are rules about not making other members cry in the forum. 'Crisis and observation' tests aren't very friendly! Haha, maybe the mods should create a special thread or sub-forum where the gloves are off and only the strong survive! Okay ... maybe not.

right, that's it, let's have at it!



now that I have kicked your butt with my paper dollies, I would like to clarify that I wasn't advocating *provoking* someone into crying- I simply am not bothered if something comes up for an individual that causes them to break down, or causes their normal demeanour to have a splat attack. I am of the particular view that it would be far more evolved to engage with one another in such a way as to obviate this reaction *and* I am aware that there is a wide variety of Beings, in various stages of awareness, inhabiting these hallways and corridors; splat is, at least for now, likely to happen. It's how we *deal* with splat-individually and collectively- that is, imo, the really fertile ground for evolution.

Something I find more uncomfortable than crying is fake crying. Passive/aggressive fake crying (and there's a lot of it about) in the face of an attack or an argument disgusts me. Someone genuinely crying does not, whether they're man, woman or child. I think tears are a valuable, powerful, cathartic thing, and to pretend them or to chuck them about all over the place at the drop of a hat isn't good for a person.

I too go very cool in the face of passive aggression. I have an excellent radar for it, having grown up with it, and no time for it at all- emotional blackmail/manipulation of any kind for me is tedious and closed system. I'm not interested in either state.

Stiff upper lipped Borden

This bit made me smorfle with laughter. I am too wildish for stiff lippery... :D

[songsfortheotherkind]

my new and improved previous post now makes a lot more sense, due to the gif properly working. Otherwise, there just seems to be a strange reference to random paper dollies...

*laughing*

[Borden]

Haha, yes - I experienced a moment of confusion until I refreshed the page. Brilliant gif (gift of a gif?), thank you!

I think the reason passive/aggressive behaviour annoys me so much is that it's simply animal cunning. It's not that I necessarily value sophistication, but I do value honesty. A display of animal cunning is an honesty in itself of course, but an unwitting one. It bankrupts whatever point is being made. For instance, something that particularly angers me is when people wish to insult, but do it 'within the rules' so to speak. I'm not talking about this forum and its rules, but the world at large. You know, random people you meet going about the day, or people you know but who are not really friends or enemies. There is a simple way to deal with that sort of cowardly 'attack', and the guilty pleasure there is the reminder that animals tend to freeze in headlights, haha.

I agree with you about the 'splat' subject, and for all the lovely people I speak to here, I do still find it frustrating when I see some people coasting in their particular beliefs (especially the ones I find ludicrous). Devotees, for instance, of characters whom I personally believe to be lying or delusional or a mixture of both. I'm torn between feeling that it's their business and not my place to challenge their beliefs ... and feeling that I should because a place like this is surely about the evolution of ideas and I have as much right to an opinion as anybody. I have this theory that humour is a decent way to bypass a lot of the traps to be found 'inhabiting these hallways and corridors'. Personally, I find that laughter can be cathartic in a similarly powerful way to tears. Maybe that's a form of manipulation too, I'm not really sure - but I do know that people have used it successfully on me and forced me to re-evaluate this or that idea.

Borden

[araucaria]

As a forum of, let’s just say, spiritually minded folks, Avalon should be trying to get above ego-filled bitchiness and involuntarily judgmental amateur diagnoses (eg the Asperger’s label).

If we just take a compassionate view of everyone – everyone – we tend towards understanding people as well as what is to be taken from their message. The abuser is usually someone who has been abused, and even the worst abuser needs to be treated as a human with issues (granted, possibly too big for us to handle alone) rather than some inhuman monster.

If we cannot show humanity to our fellow earthling humans, then we are not ready to be mixing with Martians, still less with Greys. They too must be shown humanity, or if the word seems too restrictive, compassion. The ‘ET threat’ is largely of our own making because we fail to see this.

Regarding those who would separate the wheat and the chaff, they seem to have got the wrong end of the stick. To the contrary, the biblical parable of the wheat and the tares makes it quite clear that such attempts at weeding out would kill the wheat crop. Babies and bathwater come to mind

[Borden]

Perhaps you don't see the need to check that it is in fact a baby in that bath water, and not something a diaper-less baby may have left behind.

I do take a compassionate view of everyone. Everyone. Compassion does not mean never challenging.

By the way, the bible contains some of the most horrific fear-mongering and judgment I have ever read. I'd rather have the wrong end of the stick than the wrong stick.

Borden

[9eagle9]

As noted elsewhere Avalon isn't JUST a temple for conscious work shopping, spirituality or a religious temple. There is no prohibition in the guidelines that say 'leave your ego at the door'.

Is it it a requirement for people to be spiritual to discuss anything in here? With 5000 belief systems and everyone thinking theirs is the most important, its very impossible for each member to toe the line and not offend or challenge that many belief systems in play. Chances are someone's ego is going to be stepped on. How well one manages themselves reveals how well their checking their ego. No one is required to check their ego, they just have to make sure their ego remains with the realms of a certain standard of conduct. That includes squealing that one is hurt because their idol was scrutinized.

People confuse spirituality with belief. Because someone invests their utter faith and ourtight devotion to David doens't automatically make them spiritual. That's coat tail spirituality. Then they have an opportunity to squawk and moan when someeone observes that he has obviated discrepancies between what he talks and what he walks. Your belief in him does not make him above reproach. The devotees feel they are being criticized when its actually David who is being scrutinized here. No one is critiquing his fan base and if his fans are taking it personally they have to follow their own advice and manage their ego.


This is how deceptions are kept in place by devotees.

Posted by araucaria (here)
As a forum of, let’s just say, spiritually minded folks, Avalon should be trying to get above ego-filled bitchiness and involuntarily judgmental amateur diagnoses (eg the Asperger’s label).

If we just take a compassionate view of everyone – everyone – we tend towards understanding people as well as what is to be taken from their message. The abuser is usually someone who has been abused, and even the worst abuser needs to be treated as a human with issues (granted, possibly too big for us to handle alone) rather than some inhuman monster.

If we cannot show humanity to our fellow earthling humans, then we are not ready to be mixing with Martians, still less with Greys. They too must be shown humanity, or if the word seems too restrictive, compassion. The ‘ET threat’ is largely of our own making because we fail to see this.

Regarding those who would separate the wheat and the chaff, they seem to have got the wrong end of the stick. To the contrary, the biblical parable of the wheat and the tares makes it quite clear that such attempts at weeding out would kill the wheat crop. Babies and bathwater come to mind

[highlyter]

Emotional hot buttons?; simply ego. Hard to leave it at the door anywhere, however, practice makes perfect!

DW is hope-filled just like everyone else. His blog has opened many eyes. H2 channel has been flooded with programming leading up to disclosure! We are in the final minutes, omniversally speaking!!

Gregg Bradens Fractal Time Book, Bill Ryans interview with Lucia Renè and watching "What the Bleep do we Know" catapulted me into the living from the heart coherency path. After reading Unplugging the Patriarchy, I've found so much that aligns with unplugging to connect!!! David has been part of that connectivity. I am grateful to be here NOW.
Thanks Loving Avalonians.

[Mike]

Posted by Borden (here)

Posted by songsfortheotherkind (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
Then David would be forced to directly substantiate and debate the claims he makes and because its been demonstrated that he cries a lot when challenged it would be very hard to retain a working membership because we're not supposed to make other members cry. He's much better off defending his position through his fan base so he doesn't have to risk the sorts of the emotional breakdowns that we recently witnessed. And prefer not to witness here in the forum.

That *you personally* prefer not to witness here in the forum. Please make this clear, because I personally have no such preference, I don't have an issue with someone hitting a huge learning curve or personal black hole and having a temporary melt down as a result. It's what they do with it that is interesting to me.

That's interesting to me too, but I'm pretty sure there are rules about not making other members cry in the forum. 'Crisis and observation' tests aren't very friendly! Haha, maybe the mods should create a special thread or sub-forum where the gloves are off and only the strong survive! Okay ... maybe not.

Something I find more uncomfortable than crying is fake crying. Passive/aggressive fake crying (and there's a lot of it about) in the face of an attack or an argument disgusts me. Someone genuinely crying does not, whether they're man, woman or child. I think tears are a valuable, powerful, cathartic thing, and to pretend them or to chuck them about all over the place at the drop of a hat isn't good for a person.

Stiff upper lipped Borden

Borden, i really like your posts *BUT*...(Avalonians, fill in passive-aggressiveness here, and add a smiley face to take the edge off...)

that seems to be the first symptom of p.a. disorder. the remedy? not sure. a smiley face flashing the finger? a pantless smiley face mooning? 2 aspirin and a couple guinness?

re fake crying: see: Benjamin Fulford.

i like your idea of a no-holds barred area here. i find that i really have to put my 'nice hat' on when i enter the forum, and it's just as well. i understand we have to be civil etc etc. but in my everyday life, i don't have a single friend who i can't spontaneously call an a@@hole or worse without them getting offended. they'll give it right back to me, even if we're talking casually, and something is released. there is a certain healthiness to this type of banter that i find refreshing.


p.s. (chinaski, with lips quivering) is it really ok to cry, man? sniff sniff, because my day hasn't been going so well. in all seriousness, i took several hits of LSD when i was 21 or 22, and spent the next 5 hrs sobbing. they were heaving sobs too, and as you say, it was the most cathartic moment of my life. i felt so light afterwards. it was wonderful. i would have never allowed myself that emotional outburst otherwise--even if i was in a room by myself. i wasn't surprised to learn years later that certain psychoanalysts have used acid in their practice, going so far as to claim that one session with LSD is worth 6 months of therapy. (a new thread?)

p.s.s. you couldn't be more right about the use of humor. i mentioned in the Pila thread that sarcasm is an underrated form of communication. i probably should have said humor is an underrated from of communication, as this is in closer alignment with my thoughts.

p.s.s.s. this thought just occurred to me: maybe Wilcock was tripping during his mawkish meltdown maybe we should let the poor guy of the hook.