Welcome to The Pub At the End of the Universe.

[Cerridwen]

Posted by songsfortheotherkind (here)
As my darling Cerridwen says, 'it's all about me, me, me':

I do say that and I mean it. *giggles* I don’t mean it in a selfish, self absorbed way, I mean it as in I’m living in my own movie, in my own head. I only see things from my own perspective, based on my own past experiences. I can try to see things form others perspective, but since I’ll never really be in someone else’s head, I’ll always have my own ‘filter’ on while attempting to do so, I just wont get it right.


A couple of years ago, I read "The Fifth Agreement" by Don Miguel Ruiz. In that book he uses a wonderful analogy about not taking anything personally. He asks the reader to imagine walking into a large movie theater multiplex. You pick one, walk in and sit down all alone. You notice right away, that the movie is all about you. You see yourself, your friends and family, all of those close to you. You sit there for a while and think, wow, that’s really interesting how they managed to get my life up there in such amazing, accurate detail.


After a while, you decide to go check out what’s playing in the other theaters. You walk into the one next door, and notice there is only one other person in the theater. After sitting down, you see that all of the same actors are in this movie as well, but the characters are behaving differently and now you’re not the star, you’re just a secondary character . It takes a moment, but you realize that this movie is from your mother’s perspective, and it’s her sitting there, quietly all alone in the dark. This is how she sees herself and all of those around her. She’s getting you all wrong, she’s getting your father and others all wrong too.

Frustrated, you get up again and go over to the next movie. This time it’s your beloved’s movie and they are sitting in the theater by themselves. And once again, this movie is very different from your movie. You see how they perceive you and how they think that they project themselves. It’s all very different from your own perspective.

Then you go into your children’s movies, your friend’s movies... it’s the same thing each time. Exact same actors, different story lines, characters behaving wrong. WTF!


Finally, you just go back to the first theater, to watch your movie again. This time you don’t really believe what you’re watching. You no longer believe your own story, because thats it, it’s just a story. All of the acting you’ve done for your entire life was really for nothing, because nobody really perceives you the way that you want them to anyway. Everyone is stuck in their own little movie, seeing the characters act the way they want them to act. Seeing things the way that they want to see them. They didn’t even notice you come sit by them in the theater, because they were so focused on their own story. Each actor has all of their attention on their on story and that is the only reality that they live in.

“People live in their own world, in their own movie, in their own story. They invest all of their faith in that story, and that story is the truth for them, but it’s a relative truth, because it’s not truth for you. Now you can see that all their opinions about you really concern the character who lives in their movie, not in yours. The one who they are judging in your name is a character they create. Whatever people think of you is really about the image they have of you, and that image isn’t you.”

This world is made up of billions of Creators, creating their own story, from the point of view of the main character. Everything is all about them. When the secondary characters don’t behave the way that they want them to behave, they get angry or butthurt. They decide to take everything personally, when in reality, it has absolutely nothing to do with them.



So, that’s what I mean when I say “It’s all about me”, it really has nothing to do with me at all, as well as everything to do with me, at the same time.

Who took all of the flippin spoons around here?

*Shakes her head and laughs, while skipping over to the bar for a chai tea latte with hemp milk*

[Calz]

One thing about Libra (and I have 5 planets there) is the ability (or curse) of being able to look at things from "both" sides. Worse yet "all" sides.

Who knows ... perhaps that is why I have never been able to meditate ... instead of silencing one voice I have two???





I tried offering 2 cents worth on another thread and ... ummm ... it didn't go over well.

I can see all sides of how "forgiveness" has been presented here.

Paradox???

Perhaps but consider:

During that time, two men abducted her at gunpoint, took her to a remote location in a van, and visciously raped her once again. This time, however, something happened. Instead of fear and revulsion, her heart melted and she instantly forgave them in the midst of the attack. She said that she felt an overwhelming love and understanding rise up in her heart, and although they had intended to kill her and dump her body, they instead drove her back and let her go free.

What seemed like yesterday is now 11 pages back in another bob's story about his twin flame.

How should we approach such an extrordinary story???

Get bogged down in words and language???

I would think (ouch I hate it when that happens) that unconditional love would entail forgiveness??? Does not that make sense to all? Is unconditional love something at the highest levels of attainment and striving for or a curse that others will feast upon?

I can identify with what Songsie suggests in her personal experience with "forgiveness" yet I have had a relatively "easy" life ... certainly compared to either Songsie or another bob's partner.

I did have "organized religion" shoved down my throat growing up and we all know how often that works well??? I don't see the need to attach religious baggage to "forgiveness". Using such as a "weapon" is understandable particularly given the childhood history that Songs depicts.

Growing up in such a challenging environment is something we should all consider when trying to mince words here that are perhaps less necessary than it would seem.

[Zebra]

Borden, a similar thing happened with my ex. After me, he eventually married a woman he had been close to, on and off, for at least 25 years. After one year, it was over.

They had met in high school. They had always been there for each other as friends - through relationships, children. Then after about five months of marriage, she started changing her mind on things - nothing was good enough - and she even started telling him that he was'nt spiritual enough for her. Yet I can tell you, the growth in this man since he and I parted 11 years ago, has been amazing, and I told him this. He had started to confide in me his problems (we have three children together) and that really blew me away.

I thought, like you, that this is great they are together, they know each other well. I said this to him at the time they came together. Yet, I remember him saying, I dunno, she is always changing her mind, he said - and this: we´ve been friends for so long, I would´nt like anything to come between that. He knew.

Nonetheless, this has been a hard one for him to handle - and understand.

Geez, I gave him a hard enough time, Borden

[Cerridwen]

Posted by Borden (here)
This morning I've had my very last communication with the woman I love. The woman I've known for twenty-two years, and who for the last three years I had thought I would be with forever. It was cold, deathly cold, utterly final, and is the culmination of the long, drawn out process of breaking my heart. I could, and very nearly did, come in here and carry my agony into this space by tearing what you've said apart, but I caught myself in the act. You see, I carry enormous, enormous hurt at the hands of women. It's just as well for me that I'm beginning to understand how I've let them hurt me. It will never happen again. I know that you have insight into your own relationship to men, and I know you're working on that.

Good luck to us both.

I'm so sorry you're going through so much heartache, Borden.

[Calz]

Posted by Cerridwen (here)

So, that’s what I mean when I say “It’s all about me”, it really has nothing to do with me at all, as well as everything to do with me, at the same time.

Who took all of the flippin spoons around here?

Going to sidestep a *great post* ... as I oft do ... in favor of a little frolic.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyNyHark4xk

[Cerridwen]

Posted by PurpleLama (here)

The virus doesn't have a choice, [I you[/I] have a choice. One's virus laden meanness doesn't have to become my major malfunction. That's what forgiveness is all about, telling virus and host alike, "you won't harm me, anymore." It's not about holding on to sui generis, we all have that whether we know it or not. It's about not carrying the past into the future. Step back, breathe, let it go. Feel pity for the virus riddled soul that was unfortunate enough to carry the destructive signal, and if need be, thank them, even, for carrying the warped signal that helped force our evolution. It's those who have hurt me, sometimes, who have enabled me to become this strong, but the balance of it I had to find myself. That ho'oponopono thing is so much more than just a funny word. It a funny word that means so much more than I love you, forgive me, I'm sorry, thank you.

This is how I see forgiveness also. I do try and remember to practice that ho'oponopono thing as well, sometimes it just takes me a while to get back into that space.

[Calz]

Posted by Cerridwen (here)

Posted by Borden (here)
This morning I've had my very last communication with the woman I love. The woman I've known for twenty-two years, and who for the last three years I had thought I would be with forever. It was cold, deathly cold, utterly final, and is the culmination of the long, drawn out process of breaking my heart. I could, and very nearly did, come in here and carry my agony into this space by tearing what you've said apart, but I caught myself in the act. You see, I carry enormous, enormous hurt at the hands of women. It's just as well for me that I'm beginning to understand how I've let them hurt me. It will never happen again. I know that you have insight into your own relationship to men, and I know you're working on that.

Good luck to us both.

I'm so sorry you're going through so much heartache, Borden.

Indeed.

Married now (only time) for 16 years now but in my first 40 years the longest time I managed to keep something together was 3 years.

Safe to say *no one* has a monopoly on stories to tell regarding relationships.

[Zebra]

Posted by Cerridwen (here)


So, that’s what I mean when I say “It’s all about me”, it really has nothing to do with me at all, as well as everything to do with me, at the same time.

Who took all of the flippin spoons around here?

*Shakes her head and laughs, while skipping over to the bar for a chai tea latte with hemp milk*

Cerridwen,

FANTASTIC. I love the way you tell this parable. And I never really understood it this way, even though I know of this, because it always stuns me how people really don´t know me, and don´t understand me.
Yet, but yet .. some people do see more - and sometime more than we see in ourselves, especially when we don´t like who we are.

I think others can also open us up to more about who we are - in general - good and faulty. It is part of our evolution to finding out. Who was it who said: learning comes through our significant relationships with others.

I still believe in that - heck - that´s why I am at the pub at the end of the universe.

*I've never had hemp milk .. I´d like to find some. I love chai tea latte ..mmmmm with honey! *

[Zebra]

Posted by Calz_Avaretard (here)
One thing about Libra (and I have 5 planets there) is the ability (or curse) of being able to look at things from "both" sides. Worse yet "all" sides.

Who knows ... perhaps that is why I have never been able to meditate ... instead of silencing one voice I have two???
I tried offering 2 cents worth on another thread and ... ummm ... it didn't go over well.

I can see all sides of how "forgiveness" has been presented here.

Paradox???

Perhaps but consider:

During that time, two men abducted her at gunpoint, took her to a remote location in a van, and visciously raped her once again. This time, however, something happened. Instead of fear and revulsion, her heart melted and she instantly forgave them in the midst of the attack. She said that she felt an overwhelming love and understanding rise up in her heart, and although they had intended to kill her and dump her body, they instead drove her back and let her go free.

What seemed like yesterday is now 11 pages back in another bob's story about his twin flame.

How should we approach such an extrordinary story???

Get bogged down in words and language???

I would think (ouch I hate it when that happens) that unconditional love would entail forgiveness??? Does not that make sense to all? Is unconditional love something at the highest levels of attainment and striving for or a curse that others will feast upon?

I can identify with what Songsie suggests in her personal experience with "forgiveness" yet I have had a relatively "easy" life ... certainly compared to either Songsie or another bob's partner.

I did have "organized religion" shoved down my throat growing up and we all know how often that works well??? I don't see the need to attach religious baggage to "forgiveness". Using such as a "weapon" is understandable particularly given the childhood history that Songs depicts.

Growing up in such a challenging environment is something we should all consider when trying to mince words here that are perhaps less necessary that it would seem.

Calz, you are hilarious

I also think your the wisest smurf in smurfdom. Your ability to feel into the heart space of other beings, on this forum, is such a gift - to all of us.

Thank you for this considerate and worthy summation of today´s/tonight´s conversation. Well said, my friend

-Zebra

[Cerridwen]

Posted by Zebra (here)

Posted by Cerridwen (here)


So, that’s what I mean when I say “It’s all about me”, it really has nothing to do with me at all, as well as everything to do with me, at the same time.

Who took all of the flippin spoons around here?

*Shakes her head and laughs, while skipping over to the bar for a chai tea latte with hemp milk*

Cerridwen,

FANTASTIC. I love the way you tell this parable. And I never really understood it this way, even though I know of this, because it always stuns me how people really don´t know me, and don´t understand me.
Yet, but yet .. some people do see more - and sometime more than we see in ourselves, especially when we don´t like who we are.

Yeah, that authors way of explaining it really worked for me too. He does a much better job of explaining it though.

I think others can also open us up to more about who we are - in general - good and faulty. It is part of our evolution to finding out. Who was it who said: learning comes through our significant relationships with others.

I still believe in that - heck - that´s why I am at the pub at the end of the universe.

I agree, the trick is to be aware of all of the different 'movies' going on. I know for myself, if I asked 5 different people who 'know' me pretty well, to describe me, I'd get 5 different descriptions. And none of them would be the me that I think I am. Some would be much better, some worse, and others would have me scratching me head.

Years ago, I had a wise older friend who never used to get upset about all the crap that was going on with a few jerks at work. I'd be amazed that he would always be calm and smiling through it all. One day, I asked him how he managed to do it. He simply told me "I consider the source."

*I've never had hemp milk .. I´d like to find some. I love chai tea latte ..mmmmm with honey! *

It's kinda hard to find around here too, but worth it. I love everything with honey.

[CurtisW]

Well......this isn't your typical pub tune, I'll grant you.

But then this isn't your typical pub either.



Enjoy

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipzR9bhei_o

[Borden]

Nice sounds, Curtis ...

This is a chill out favourite for me. It's just one of those relaxing tunes I like to kick back to when I've been flying naked through lightning storms with my eyes blazing white. You know. A bit of Sturm und Drang does a power of good.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0PpTPvbr-4

[another bob]

Posted by Borden (here)
I was referencing the things you'd just said you were 'clunking' with, feeling confused about, that's all. There was no obscurity involved. See where over-analysis can get you?

This morning I've had my very last communication with the woman I love. The woman I've known for twenty-two years, and who for the last three years I had thought I would be with forever. It was cold, deathly cold, utterly final, and is the culmination of the long, drawn out process of breaking my heart. I could, and very nearly did, come in here and carry my agony into this space by tearing what you've said apart, but I caught myself in the act. You see, I carry enormous, enormous hurt at the hands of women. It's just as well for me that I'm beginning to understand how I've let them hurt me. It will never happen again. I know that you have insight into your own relationship to men, and I know you're working on that.

Good luck to us both.

Brother, I've been holding you in my heart all morning, as I've been digging and re-planting, seeding and weeding out in my garden. Just one thing I feel moved to share with you now, and that is: don't let this hurtful experience close your heart -- your feeling being. After some disappointment in intimate relationship, it's typical for humans to strap on layers of emotional armor, so as to avoid the perceived dangers of vulnerability, but this reactivity carries with it an awful penalty, and one that will haunt the heart until it's once again cracked open by grace. The harder the armor, the more difficult it will be to be touched by Love's tender caress. It's a tricky line to walk, I understand -- to stay open and vulnerable, but wise enough to not be abused. The secret is always honesty in communication, and refraining from masquerades. As you come to fully accept and really like yourself, it will be that much easier to proceed in relationships, for you will not be coming from a place of neediness, but one of confidence and self-esteem. Anyway, enogh from this old fart, I just mostly wanted to reach out to you.

[Borden]

No-one's ever made me cry in this forum before now. Thank you, Bob.

[another bob]

Posted by songsfortheotherkind (here)
What I've noticed with the experiences of this is that I've frequently found those who *do* see the physical as irrelevant or a distraction from the important business of remembering that there's nothing to begin with, to remove oneself from samsara as it were, see those who are quite at home in the physical realms- and who actually prefer them- to somehow be suffering from some kind of defect or inferior focus.

I actually come from completely the opposite view. I see physical incarnation as the thing the spiritual moves towards, not vice versa; I don't see the physical realms as some kind of inferior state, corruption or stage to simply be tested with noise and dissonance so that one can aspire to get back to 'higher planes', the non-corporeal. I get that to some, that's no plane, the idea that there's nothing here or there, it's all some kind of hallucination of sorts, and any other variation of same. I'm not saying that these are all things I think you think, I'm saying this from a wider perspective of having heard stuff like that before.

Great -- so perhaps we can cease creating strawmen, and get to what we're really saying. Clearly, you've been wounded, but I'm not suggesting escape into some formless fantasy of annihilationism, when I talk about forgiveness.The kind I'm speaking about requires a lot of courage and honesty, wisdom and realization, not avoidance, and certainly not reliquishing one's personal power. If anything, it requires such personal power be based on what's real -- here and now.

Anyone who peruses my writings at my blog, for instance, would recognize that I am profoundly committed to this physical incarnation, which is why I applauded Borden's metaphor about "yogis and wet weekends" in his post yesterday, for one pertinent example, and why I also have consistently objected to sentiments expressed by members in the main forum who whine about wanting to "go home" because of the disappointing/challenging experience they've been having here in 3-D, or who want to attain some sort of "enlightenment" that will relieve them from having to deal with everyday life and relationships, or who are fervently praying that the earth will be raised to the 5th dimension in late Decembe (not to mention those expecting ET to intervene and free them from financial slavery and the polluted fruits of their own creation).

At the same time, I also have directly seen (as opposed to indulging mere theory or belief) that our experience here in this realm is indeed a kind of virtual reality game, but that recognition has only granted me a kind of heads up -- mostly so that I don't take myself and the "me" storyline narrative too seriously.

To imagine ourselves as some noble virus fighter committed to personal evolution is certainly fine and admirable, if that's what one wants to do with their brief time here, but it's also a creation, a play, an arbitrary modification of consciousness with no inherent and enduring reality. Moreover, you may object to it being called "an hallucination", but if you were to really have the opportunity to get some perspective and see it for what it truly is, you would not be so quick to dismiss that characterization, I assure you!

The totality of the multiversal manifestation is infinitely wide and deep, and our only limits are self-imposed. We obviously have two distinctly subjective angles of vision, which is not a problem, unless we make it one, and that would be kinda dumb, eh. I have shared with all here at Avalon on many occasions that I feel your creative efforts are inspiring, and praised your brilliance and eloquent determination. You have a rare depth indeed, and have clearly had to surmount some challenges that would crush the average person.

On the other hand, I don't really sense that you've "heard" or "seen" me, and that's OK -- very few ever have. Regardless, I don't like to have positions attributed to me that are not actually true, which is why I've taken the time to respond here at some length to what I feel are frankly some skewed projections and conflated interpretations. I hope we can move on from here with mutual respect and tolerance, and enjoy the Pub flavors without further ambiguities based on misunderstanding.

Thanks for the opportunity to express my comfortability with my Self. It was really good for me to explore that.

Cool!

[Borden]

Mummy ... Daddy ... PLEASE don't fight ... it hurts little Borden ... it makes little Borden feel that it's his fault ... please just stop it and love each other.

[Borden]

Bob, Songsy knows that I see you as wise and unique. Whenever she and I talk (which is almost constantly until the last couple of days) she knows that what you post is likely to make an impression on me. I happen to know that she appreciates you too. In best Darth Vader voice (and she wasn't kidding, I am indeed an excellent mimic) ... "there is no conflict."

I saw a bit of Bob steel, and I was surprised by it. I fully appreciated the reasons for its presence, but I was still a little taken aback, even though it wasn't aimed at me. You are an intriguing and miraculous person. That's my estimation anyway. And as you know, that is eminently potent and all-meaning. I can't even help it. It zings off me. It's a problem. I know. In fact, I'm guessing that the reason I haven't had chicks flinging themselves at me since I disclosed that I am now single is the baby photo. Right? Gotta be. No other explanation.

We are all in this together. Here, I mean. In the pub.

[songsfortheotherkind]

Posted by Borden (here)
Mummy ... Daddy ... PLEASE don't fight ... it hurts little Borden ... it makes little Borden feel that it's his fault ... please just stop it and love each other.

We're not fighting, we're evolving our connection.

[another bob]

Posted by Borden (here)
Mummy ... Daddy ... PLEASE don't fight ... it hurts little Borden ... it makes little Borden feel that it's his fault ... please just stop it and love each other.

We're not fighting, consider the Tango -- there's a huge clue there!

[Borden]

Okay then. Mummy and Daddy are just doing weird sexy dancing at each other. That makes everything so much better.

I will just sit in the corner and bend spoons with my mind. Come get me when you're done. Just don't look directly into my eyes. That's never a good call.

By the way, Bob - in the interests of the pub's openness ... I've 'seen' you. The unsettling thing is that I haven't seen you half as much as you've seen me. These bloody wise people ... they're so bloody tricky!

Yet again. Where's Chinaski? I feel a strange concern for him. I want him to come in here and tell us about his adventures.