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    Default 9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy

    9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy


    Tuesday, March 13th, 2012 | Posted by Jim Fetzer
    Dennis Cimino (with Jim Fetzer)


    Among the most fascinating aspects of 9/11 research has been the on-going controversy over whether the absence of evidence that a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon should or should not be publicized within the movement, especially by Jim Hoffman, who has published several articles maintaining that the physical evidence as well as the witness reports supports a Boeing 757 having hit the building. One of the more bizarre aspects of his defense of the “official account” of the Pentagon attack is to cite the Sandia test, in which an F-4 was strapped onto a rail car frame and run at around 500 mph into a nuclear-resistant concrete barrier. The plane blew apart into millions of tiny pieces, implying that that was what ought to have been expected of the Boeing 757 at the Pentagon. The building consists of 12 inches of concrete, 8 inches of brick, and a facade of 4 inches of limestone, which is a very porous stone. Even Major Gen. Albert Stubblebine, USAF (ret.), concluded that no Boeing 757 had hit the Pentagon for the obvious reason that he could discern no imprint of the wings on the building.

    Stubblebine, of course, was the NSA’s signals intelligence image analyst, but that has not deterred Jim Hoffman, who has also argued that discussing the Pentagon “might be a trap”, since the Pentagon might release some of the more than 80 videos it possesses that would show “what really happened” as opposed to the five frames it has released, one of which shows the image of a small plane that is about half the size of a Boeing 757. Why anyone should take Hoffman seriously about any of this is beyond me, because, based upon my personal experience, he has gone out of his way to manipulate the 9/11 Truth community, even to the extent of creating an elaborate pretext to excuse Larry Silverstein from having made an obvious concession to the controlled demolition of WTC-7 with his “pull it” remark during an interview with PBS. He has had some effect, it would appear, since even David Ray Griffin, perhaps the leading expert on 9/11 in the world today, has avoided pushing the Pentagon front-and-center, where it properly belongs. As Dennis Cimino explains, the “official account” is a fantasy, where the American public would benefit from knowing that even the Pentagon attack was a fabrication and a fraud.
    The Pentagon attack is a fantasy

    DENNIS CIMINO

    On September 11, 2001, we were told by the U.S. government that at 9:38 a.m. on that day, a Boeing 757 jetliner impacted the building at a speed of approximately 465 knots after executing a 330 degree turn for no apparent reason any sane person can think of, as the building is highly distinguishable from virtually any altitude above 2000 feet for several miles. The official story has the flight path just to the side of the west wing of the White House, which in any person’s estimation is a significantly more important target than is the building that houses the military managers who run the Military Industrial Complex. We were also told that nobody could have foreseen this type of attack, even though just a year earlier, a drill was held, and a nearly identical B-757 American Airlines plane was flown by Chuck Burlingame himself, as the Pentagon ran a preparedness drill to simulate such an attack.

    "Pentagon Mass Casualty Exercise", 24-26 October 2000

    Unfortunately, many people in America are unaware that the Washington, D.C. area has Raytheon “Basic Point Defense” missile battery armament embedded on several building rooftops there, using Sea Sparrow air defense missiles, much in the same fashion that Moscow has a system that NATO code named ‘Yo Yo’ that maintains radar surveillance and provides protection to the Kremlin and other high value targets from military incursions. In other words, the Pentagon was protected not only by these missile batteries, but also had in place a number of adjacent fighter bases which provided a fairly high level of protection given the fact that the plane inbound to the Pentagon from the east was not supersonic as are the adjacent fighter jets based in the area, and therefore easily could have been intercepted and at the very least, temporarily deflected off course if not shot down, if need be, long before it reached the target on the building, known as ‘The Catchers Mit’ due to recent renovations which added several inches of KEVLAR armor to that face of the building to protect the occupants. For those of you who are not familiar with Kevlar armor and how it works, the only much more vastly superior but significantly more expensive armor is ceramic in nature and is often used jointly with Kevlar to protect personnel from high energy armor piercing rounds fired by tanks and other anti armor weapons such as are mounted on most military attack helicopters, for instance, such as the 30mm cannon and the infamous Obama well used ‘hellfire’ anti tank missile system.

    In addition, there is a system, known as “Identification Friend or Foe” aka I.F.F., which uses a special MODE 4A feature that only military aircraft use, whereupon special encryption. Additionally, a mission specific MODEX aka SEDSCAF number for each plane is assigned and if it does not meet the PLAN OF THE DAY for the area, IT STILL IS NOT GOING TO PASS MODE 4A MUSTER. It would be shot down. No “if”s, no “and”s and no “but”s!!!!

    The proper MODEX / SEDSCAF NUMBER is what enables an aircraft them to penetrate prohibited or military restricted airspace such as that which surrounds both the White House and the Pentagon, as well as a number of military installations around the globe. This feature is necessary to prevent the possible mis-identification of a civilian aircraft by military air defense personnel who man radar scopes in the Washington, D.C. area, 24/7, watching for unauthorized aircraft who do not have the proper MODE 4A response capability or code in use with their on board transponders. Only military aircraft have this Mode 4A capability, or what is often referred to as ‘crypto Beacon Video’ military ATC specialists.

    The "hit point" on the ground floor

    In any case, the reason I mention this is that there are several echelons of protection which allegedly all summarily ‘failed’ us on Sept. 11th., 2001, and allowed an unidentified plane hurtling towards Washington, D.C.’s protected airspace, long after the First targets in New York had already been seriously damaged. To be honest, it is simply not possible for virtually every one of these systems to have been overcome by 19 guys wielding no more than box cutters. It took a lot of sabotage or unplugging on the ground to do that.

    In any case, there was plenty of warning that an ‘unknown’ and presumed ‘hostile’ target was inbound to the Washington, D.C. area from the area around West Virginia to the east, and more than sufficient time existed to scramble fighters and or light off the Basic Point Missile Defense or BPDMS radar systems (AKA as N.S.S.M.S.) and missile defenses that are installed in rooftops there in the Washington, D.C. area since the mid 1980’s. Basic Point Defense uses a CW target illuminator radar to allow the semi-actively guided Sea Sparrow missile to radar home on reflected energy coming back from the target aircraft after the radar has locked onto the target. Though these are short range, they are so effective many high value targets in the Navy use this system, with it’s infamous MK-112 Fire Control radar system. It’s known that NATO’s Sea Sparrow was in place in the mid 1980’s in Washington, D.C. as point defense against air attack. It’s not unreasonable to assume that an updated version of N.S.S.M.S. / Mk 112/MK-115 would be there in September, 2001., by any stretch of the imagination. In all likelihood, it would be a version of the PAC-3 ‘Patriot’ Missile system, another Raytheon toy. One more point would like to make is that the White House, which this aircraft would breeze right past, had agents on the roof with shoulder fired STINGER MISSILES, and on this particular day, you can rest assured that with the unknown target hurtling toward Washington, D.C., those agents were on that roof with those STINGER MISSILES out of their cases and on their shoulders as they scanned the clear morning sky for the coming intruder plane. Why did they not fire at it?

    So, on September 11, 2001, what took place was a plane that was not a scheduled air carrier flight, per the Bureau of Transportation Statistics or BTS database, departed Boston’s Logan Field from a departure gate that does not match the coordinates transmitted by the ACARS system, as well as stored in the provided by the N.T.S.B., flight data recorder records, on that non-scheduled American Airlines flight, aka ‘FLT 77’ per the government’s submission, and this plane left Boston’s Logan Airport with a hijacker on board who was capable of flying a very sophisticated and complex airplane that the average pilot in the F.A.A. pilot registry could probably not really fly with such precision. This plane took off, climbed to it’s cruise altitude, and then over W. Virginia, was hijacked in 3 minutes time, and then executed a ‘standard rate’ turn which no hijacker would have performed with such precision, and immediately turned inbound to the perfect heading that would take it directly to the Pentagon, even though for hijackers to do this, would have meant they would have had to know exactly where the aircraft was immediately — and I do mean, IMMEDIATELY — and then have the requisite knowledge of how to re-program the complicated FMS computers in the aircraft to display target area data to them, because as you might have guessed, they did not bring their own GPS system with them on the planes that would have given them immediate positional information as well as a much more immediate way of turning the plane onto a magnetic heading that would take it to Washington, D.C. from that nice precise standard rate turnaround in the skies over West Virginia. Impressed? I sure am, as would be many B-757 line captains who fly this airplane every day, especially with the level of complexity the FMS or Flight Management System on that airplane has, that has on at least one occasion, led to the crash and destruction of a similarly equipped American Airlines B-757 in the mountains just outside of Cali, Colombia just a few years before this.

    What was more alarming that day is that during the ‘3’ minute hijacking interval, neither the cockpit door opened (reported via the Digital Flight Data Acquisition Unit or DFDAU as it is known as) and the autopilot did not disengage. Now imagine yourself being Captain Chuck Burlingame and his copilot, sitting in their seats, when these hijackers slid under the door crack on the floor and re-constituted themselves as full fledged box-cutter wielding terrorists, who then proceeded to cut the heads off these two airmen who’s job is to protect their aircraft and it’s passengers at all costs. Neither of these guys were 98 pound weaklings, yet in three minutes they had been incapacitated and were out of their seats without touching either the yokes or the rudders, which would have immediately DISENGAGED the aircraft’s autopilot system which was flying the machine at that time. The plane did not yaw, roll, pitch or otherwise change any flight parameter but remained perfectly on course, and for some reason, two minutes later the hijackers finally decided to turn OFF the transponder to make it a bit harder for ATC to be positively sure this plane was the same one they were watching before the hijacking took place. Now, one more thing you need to know is that for either of the flight crew to either push the talk button on the yokes or to change the transponder code to one that tells the ATC personnel monitoring the flight that they were in a ‘hijack’ situation, would have taken mere seconds to do. Yet, this was not done. And the autopilot did not disengage though it is presumed the two pilots would have resisted and fought for their very lives and at least kicked the rudder pedals and or moved the yokes. Yet they did not do any of these things. Merely holding the push to talk button and screaming whilst having one’s head cut off would have gotten someone’s attention, I do think. Too many ways the crew could send a duress message to the ATC en route centers, and not once was this attempted. Why? The best and most reasonable reason is that these were not hijacked planes at all, but planes flown by military personnel or crews who thought they were innocently participating in the drills. And as such, these would NOT have been passenger flights, as it is illegal to use passengers in military exercises under any circumstances, due to the risk involved. This is another clue that points to the fact that no hijacking took place in this aircraft at all, because had that been the case, they had plenty of time to use a duress system to alert ATC that they were under attack in that cockpit.

    more here with video and images

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/03...-is-a-fantasy/

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    Default Re: 9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy

    Seeing where this article originated sent tingles throughout my body

    Rich

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    Default Re: 9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy

    Quote Posted by Oouthere (here)
    Seeing where this article originated sent tingles throughout my body

    Rich
    Indeed
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    Default Re: 9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy

    Oops, Doh, looks like Donnie "Osmond" Rumsfeld has some explaining to do right about now! Ya Think?


    Great Job Donnie, And Awesome Job By The Public Relations Photographer. Fantastic Photo Shoot of Donnie Helping Out, When That Granite Missile Struck The Pentagon, I Meant Plane, My Bad.

    Last edited by WhiteFeather; 15th March 2012 at 23:24.
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    Default Re: 9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy


    "Piece of fuselage James Hanson, J.D., traced back to a crash in Cali, Columbia, in 1995"


    it just keeps piling up.. now if only someone who acts like they want smaller government & 'Preaches' against the military industrial complex would stand up and take ownership *cough*RON PAUL*cough*
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    Default Re: 9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy

    Very well written article. Shreds the official account better than any other (Pentagon) account I've see, Thanks iceni tribe!

    Dennis


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    Default Re: 9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy

    The original full pdf, authored by Jim Fetzer and Dennis Cimino, documenting the Pentagon attack on 9/11, that was at the above linked VeteransToday.com link has disappeared. Via way of Jim Fetzer to Dennis Leahy comes this copy of that pdf, attached to this post.
    Last edited by ThePythonicCow; 30th June 2012 at 16:52.
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    Default Re: 9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy

    ive just been in touch with veterans today, asking why the the article has disappeared and their reply was it was taken down by request of the author.
    which author Jim Fetzer or Dennis Cimino i have no idea.

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    Default Re: 9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy

    Quote Posted by iceni tribe (here)
    ive just been in touch with veterans today, asking why the the article has disappeared and their reply was it was taken down by request of the author.
    which author Jim Fetzer or Dennis Cimino i have no idea.
    The pulling of the article should be a staggering wake up to the readers of Veteran's Today, as much or more so than the article itself. I wonder how long it was up for? I'm stunned by the reality of it even though it's the expected result, especially having found the dead link myself before reading on. Thanks for preserving it Dennis/Paul.

    Gratitude, CW
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    Default Re: 9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy



    For consideration purposes: "9/11 Pentagon Flight Recorder Fraud Revealed"?!

    Dennis speaks out.

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    Default Re: 9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy

    I've been having a debate with some people and using the above article I was lampooned with the following.

    I've been thinking about this essay by Dennis Cimino that you posted and thought you'd find the following links interesting. The best thing about the first two links is that, although they mention 9/11, they aren't written with that in mind. In other words, there's no bias either way from the author and they're both from reputable sources.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...004Jul7_2.html

    Here are two exerpts if you can't be bothered to open it:

    More than 2,000 aircraft "of interest" have been detected over Washington airspace since January 2003.

    The air defence system for Washington is unique and many of its operations are classified. Unveiled in January 2003, the system was created to track all flights and to intercept aircraft that follow strict protocols. It replaced the fighter patrols that guarded the nation's capital in September 2011.

    And this one...

    http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/09/1...1.air.defense/

    And this...

    http://911myths.com/html/pentagon_mi...batteries.html

    Cimino's entire argument hinges on the fact that any non-military plane would automatically be shot down by ground defences. In my opinion, the above links cast serious doubt over everything that he says.

    So if he's wrong about that, what else is he wrong about?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ash1711
    He mentioned something about the cockpit door not being opened... if this can be proven then what's the governments argument against this?
    Cimino was adamant that if the cockpit door was opened then it would definitely be recorded on the FDR (Flight Data Recorder).

    This is a link showing a differing opinion by a pilot and his acquaintance from Delta Airlines:

    http://m.voices.yahoo.com/more-9-11-myths-9151347.html

    Paragraphs 3, 4 and 5 are the main points of interest.

    Not sure how to carry on the debate and looking for some fightback.

    ===

    [Mod-edit:
    The first three of the four links in the above post were formatted incorrectly by the original poster. The links as posted do not work, and there is no way for me to guess what they were intended to link to, so I cannot fix them.

    Update - I did track down one of them. Now just the first two links are broken. -Paul.]
    Last edited by ThePythonicCow; 28th August 2012 at 03:56.

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    Default Re: 9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy

    hi steveofengland
    i couldn't open the washington post article and the post from 9/11 myths is a joke ,
    when the writer claims "As a professional pilot, I can say that it is unlikely that the cockpit door was monitored on the FDR" key word here is UNLIKELY and then states An acquaintance who worked in the training department at Delta Air Lines before and after 9/11 agrees that cockpit doors were probably not monitored. " again keyword here is PROBABLY.
    you can give David W. Thornton the author of this rubbish the link below

    9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE
    FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT

    http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/i...howtopic=18405

    theirs 24 odd pages of good info and they take apart warren stutt version of the FDR and label him a disinfo troll.
    hope this helps , ive been a few rounds myself over this issue and if you need a specific question answering i will pass it onto Rob at pilots for truth.

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    Default Re: 9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy

    Quote Posted by steveofengland (here)
    I've been having a debate with some people and using the above article I was lampooned with the following.

    I've been thinking about this essay by Dennis Cimino that you posted and thought you'd find the following links interesting. The best thing about the first two links is that, although they mention 9/11, they aren't written with that in mind. In other words, there's no bias either way from the author and they're both from reputable sources.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...004Jul7_2.html

    Here are two exerpts if you can't be bothered to open it:

    More than 2,000 aircraft "of interest" have been detected over Washington airspace since January 2003.

    The air defence system for Washington is unique and many of its operations are classified. Unveiled in January 2003, the system was created to track all flights and to intercept aircraft that follow strict protocols. It replaced the fighter patrols that guarded the nation's capital in September 2011.

    And this one...

    http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/09/1...1.air.defense/

    And this...

    http://911myths.com/html/pentagon_mi...batteries.html

    Cimino's entire argument hinges on the fact that any non-military plane would automatically be shot down by ground defences. In my opinion, the above links cast serious doubt over everything that he says.

    So if he's wrong about that, what else is he wrong about?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ash1711
    He mentioned something about the cockpit door not being opened... if this can be proven then what's the governments argument against this?
    Cimino was adamant that if the cockpit door was opened then it would definitely be recorded on the FDR (Flight Data Recorder).

    This is a link showing a differing opinion by a pilot and his acquaintance from Delta Airlines:

    http://m.voices.yahoo.com/more-9-11-myths-9151347.html

    Paragraphs 3, 4 and 5 are the main points of interest.

    Not sure how to carry on the debate and looking for some fightback.
    The Washington Post and CNN articles have both been taken down already. The 911 Myths link hangs there and doesn't open. Unbelievable....

    I was banned from the AboveTopSecret forum (a shill haven) a couple of weeks ago and I really do believe its because I got a little too close to the truth with what really happened at the Pentagon.... a flyover from an approach path just north of the Navy Annex complete with the fake downing of the five light poles as a decoy. It seems to be the one aspect of 911 that the Cabal really gets their panties in a twist about if anybody gets too close to solving the puzzle.

    Anybody who thinks the evidence at the Pentagon is consistent with a 757 hitting it is a seriously deluded mind-controlled lemming that would make Joe Goebbels proud.....
    Last edited by Prodigal Son; 7th August 2012 at 18:20.

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    Default Re: 9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy

    huge article by Peter Eyre – Middle East Consultant – 8/8/2012

    http://eyreinternational.wordpress.c...ified-version/

    now ive been investigating 9 /11 for nearly 5 years now , i'm not a member of any truth group nor would i want to be , ive been toe to toe with internet trolls over many 9/11 issues and now to have a journalist with the pedigree of Peter Eyre confirming everything Ive found out for myself is shall i say rather satisfying.
    now all we need is a wave of arrests from the very top down to the internet trolls who are all complicit in conspiracy to aid and abet murderers.

    sentence should be from hanging to delivering the parasites to the families of the Afghans and Iraqis who have lost loved ones over this monumental farce.

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    Default Re: 9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy

    I’m sorry, but just because someone is a journalist does not make them right (Jim Marrs got some of it wrong as well). There are SOOOOOO many provable errors in his analysis that it makes my blood boil.

    I am willing to put my money where my mouth is….I’ll debate this with anyone and any point that is disproven in my theory will cost me $20, but it also works in reverse. Points that I’ll make up front….flight recorder data has to be thrown out as it does not match what happened. The arguments have to be based on physical evidence.

    Rich

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    Default Re: 9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy

    Quote Posted by steveofengland (here)
    I've been having a debate with some people...

    I've been thinking about this essay by Dennis Cimino that you posted...

    Cimino's entire argument hinges on the fact that any non-military plane would automatically be shot down by ground defences. In my opinion, the above links cast serious doubt over everything that he says.

    So if he's wrong about that, what else is he wrong about?
    ...looking for some fightback.
    You may have read a different article than the one that Dennis Cimino wrote and that Jim Fetzer submitted to Veterans Today. In that article, many aspects of the official lies were addressed. I find it condescending and totally inaccurate that you'd assert that "Cimino's entire argument hinges on " [____________] (anything. fill-in the blank) This isn't a courtroom battle where we are using false assertions to try to discredit a witness, is it? Dennis Cimino's article does not hinge on this fact. This discredits and discounts all the work he did in this very hard-hitting investigation of the facts.

    Dennis C is also NOT just some guy (like me) on the Internet, interested in hearing the truth about what really happened on 9/11. Dennis C is an airline pilot with over 2000 hours of commercial flying experience over the course of 35 years, and in-depth aeronautical understanding. He also held DOD clearances above "secret." The head clowns at NIST proved that just having credentials doesn't guarantee that someone won't vomit forth lie after lie, but if you're going to go back and argue about any of the specifics in the article, I would suggest that (in addition to unmasking and foregoing anonymity), you might also want to talk a bit about your credentials to argue - on par - with Dennis C's assertions.

    Shredding someone's work and throwing it in the toilet really should have some basis in fact, no? I see three broken links and a working link that leads to an obvious shill/debunker website - a site with so many screamingly obvious lies I cannot believe you would present it as evidence to bolster a case against Dennis C's article.

    Quote Posted by Oouthere (here)
    I’m sorry, but just because someone is a journalist does not make them right ...

    There are SOOOOOO many provable errors in his analysis that it makes my blood boil.

    I am willing to put my money where my mouth is….I’ll debate this with anyone and any point that is disproven in my theory will cost me $20, but it also works in reverse. Points that I’ll make up front….flight recorder data has to be thrown out as it does not match what happened. The arguments have to be based on physical evidence.

    Rich
    Rich,

    Let's up the stakes. I'll bet you $2.3 Trillion Dollars (uncannily, the same amount that Donald Rumsfeld announced on September 10th, 2001 was missing from the Pentagon), that the official story is a lie. I'll bet that a jumbo jet did not crash into the pentagon.

    Just exactly as Major General Albert "Bert" N. Stubblebine III states in this video, that is not a jumbo jet crash site.

    Just exactly as someone that I know, who actually was a United Airlines pilot, and really did fly jumbo jets - 747, 757, 767 - took one look at the images of the Pentagon and said "There ... is ... no ... way ... that ... a ... 757 ... hit ... that ... building."

    I hope that if you're going to "debate" this against Major General Stubblebine, the United jumbo jet pilot I know, and Dennis Cimino, you had better have a large stash of $20 bills. Or, take my bet. I could really use the $2.3 Trillion. I could do a lot of good with that money.

    ==========================================

    To whom it may concern:

    Further to anyone who wants to "debate" or cast doubts on Dennis Cimino's article, Dennis C would request that first, unmask from your anonymous forum persona. Dennis C put himself at great risk standing up for the truth under his own name, and publishing that article. The vast, vast majority of people who have damning evidence about the US government's role in the events of 9/11 have remained silent (perhaps justifiably frightened for their family members' safety, perhaps simply cowards, and some who know the truth are sociopaths who gained financially or militarily.)

    Let's give credit where credit is due, and not just do a "drive-by strafing" of Dennis C's article because it's fun to debunk people searching for 9/11 truth. As recently occurred here on the Horus Ra thread, arguing for the sake of arguing or taking "pot shots" at serious researchers for sport - this behavior is not just frowned upon at Avalon, it's not tolerated. Legitimate criticism of specific points is one thing - wholesale discounting of a man's reputation and his work is something entirely different.

    Lastly, I'm going to make myself just as clear as icini tribe and Prodigal Son just did, and remind us all that 9/11 was a pretext for war - war-for-profit nonetheless - by sociopaths and psychopaths. It was the murder of approximately 3000 US citizens, and perhaps 1000 first responders that gave their all to help are also fighting cancers and other life threatening diseases.

    As a direct consequence of 9/11, over ONE MILLION Iraqi and Afghani individuals are dead now, and hundreds of thousands more displaced...and their countries (except for oil fields, pipelines, and military bases) are destroyed. The Patriot Act was a direct result, as was the militarization of police and creation of the Police State, the creation and metastasis of Homeland Security and the Security State, the persecution of whistleblowers, the creation of publicly admitted, sanctioned torture, the continuation of the PNAC plans in the rest of the Middle East and Northern Africa... this ain't a game.

    In my estimation, this is the nefarious work of the most evil and cunning people in recorded history - and they're not even finished yet! So, anyone wants to defend the lying sons-of-bitches, the murderous monsters and their complicit minions is gonna get an earful from me.

    Avalon is an extremely diverse community, and I have no problem with debate over the specifics of how some of 9/11 was accomplished (like mini-nukes -vs- DEW -vs- nanothermite and conventional charges in the buildings), but NO ONE at Avalon should be regurgitating the official lies of the US government as the truth. I'd amend Prodigal Son's statement to read, Anybody who believes the official narrative/propaganda of 9/11, as told by the US government and NIST, is a seriously deluded mind-controlled lemming that would make Joe Goebbels proud. Further, if a person does not believe the official bedtime story but is covertly acting as a deliberate disinformation agent, they are full accomplices to domestic mass murder and international genocide.

    Dennis


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    Default Re: 9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    It was the murder of approximately 3000 US citizens, and perhaps 1000 first responders that gave their all to help are also fighting cancers and other life threatening diseases.

    As a direct consequence of 9/11, over ONE MILLION Iraqi and Afghani individuals are dead now, and hundreds of thousands more displaced...and their countries (except for oil fields, pipelines, and military bases) are destroyed. The Patriot Act was a direct result, as was the militarization of police and creation of the Police State, the creation and metastasis of Homeland Security and the Security State, the persecution of whistleblowers, the creation of publicly admitted, sanctioned torture, the continuation of the PNAC plans in the rest of the Middle East and Northern Africa... this ain't a game.

    In my estimation, this is the nefarious work of the most evil and cunning people in recorded history - and they're not even finished yet! So, anyone wants to defend the lying sons-of-bitches, the murderous monsters and their complicit minions is gonna get an earful from me.

    Avalon is an extremely diverse community, and I have no problem with debate over the specifics of how some of 9/11 was accomplished (like mini-nukes -vs- DEW -vs- nanothermite and conventional charges in the buildings), but NO ONE at Avalon should be regurgitating the official lies of the US government as the truth. I'd amend Prodigal Son's statement to read, Anybody who believes the official narrative/propaganda of 9/11, as told by the US government and NIST, is a seriously deluded mind-controlled lemming that would make Joe Goebbels proud. Further, if a person does not believe the official bedtime story but is covertly acting as a deliberate disinformation agent, they are full accomplices to domestic mass murder and international genocide.

    Dennis
    It was a well executed false flag event, in terms of the results it produced.

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    Default Re: 9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    Quote Posted by steveofengland (here)
    I've been having a debate with some people...

    I've been thinking about this essay by Dennis Cimino that you posted...

    Cimino's entire argument hinges on the fact that any non-military plane would automatically be shot down by ground defences. In my opinion, the above links cast serious doubt over everything that he says.

    So if he's wrong about that, what else is he wrong about?
    ...looking for some fightback.
    You may have read a different article than the one that Dennis Cimino wrote and that Jim Fetzer submitted to Veterans Today. In that article, many aspects of the official lies were addressed. I find it condescending and totally inaccurate that you'd assert that "Cimino's entire argument hinges on " [____________] (anything. fill-in the blank) This isn't a courtroom battle where we are using false assertions to try to discredit a witness, is it? Dennis Cimino's article does not hinge on this fact. This discredits and discounts all the work he did in this very hard-hitting investigation of the facts.

    Dennis C is also NOT just some guy (like me) on the Internet, interested in hearing the truth about what really happened on 9/11. Dennis C is an airline pilot with over 2000 hours of commercial flying experience over the course of 35 years, and in-depth aeronautical understanding. He also held DOD clearances above "secret." The head clowns at NIST proved that just having credentials doesn't guarantee that someone won't vomit forth lie after lie, but if you're going to go back and argue about any of the specifics in the article, I would suggest that (in addition to unmasking and foregoing anonymity), you might also want to talk a bit about your credentials to argue - on par - with Dennis C's assertions.

    Shredding someone's work and throwing it in the toilet really should have some basis in fact, no? I see three broken links and a working link that leads to an obvious shill/debunker website - a site with so many screamingly obvious lies I cannot believe you would present it as evidence to bolster a case against Dennis C's article.

    Quote Posted by Oouthere (here)
    I’m sorry, but just because someone is a journalist does not make them right ...

    There are SOOOOOO many provable errors in his analysis that it makes my blood boil.

    I am willing to put my money where my mouth is….I’ll debate this with anyone and any point that is disproven in my theory will cost me $20, but it also works in reverse. Points that I’ll make up front….flight recorder data has to be thrown out as it does not match what happened. The arguments have to be based on physical evidence.

    Rich
    Rich,

    Let's up the stakes. I'll bet you $2.3 Trillion Dollars (uncannily, the same amount that Donald Rumsfeld announced on September 10th, 2001 was missing from the Pentagon), that the official story is a lie. I'll bet that a jumbo jet did not crash into the pentagon.

    Just exactly as Major General Albert "Bert" N. Stubblebine III states in this video, that is not a jumbo jet crash site.

    Just exactly as someone that I know, who actually was a United Airlines pilot, and really did fly jumbo jets - 747, 757, 767 - took one look at the images of the Pentagon and said "There ... is ... no ... way ... that ... a ... 757 ... hit ... that ... building."

    I hope that if you're going to "debate" this against Major General Stubblebine, the United jumbo jet pilot I know, and Dennis Cimino, you had better have a large stash of $20 bills. Or, take my bet. I could really use the $2.3 Trillion. I could do a lot of good with that money.

    ==========================================

    To whom it may concern:

    Further to anyone who wants to "debate" or cast doubts on Dennis Cimino's article, Dennis C would request that first, unmask from your anonymous forum persona. Dennis C put himself at great risk standing up for the truth under his own name, and publishing that article. The vast, vast majority of people who have damning evidence about the US government's role in the events of 9/11 have remained silent (perhaps justifiably frightened for their family members' safety, perhaps simply cowards, and some who know the truth are sociopaths who gained financially or militarily.)

    Let's give credit where credit is due, and not just do a "drive-by strafing" of Dennis C's article because it's fun to debunk people searching for 9/11 truth. As recently occurred here on the Horus Ra thread, arguing for the sake of arguing or taking "pot shots" at serious researchers for sport - this behavior is not just frowned upon at Avalon, it's not tolerated. Legitimate criticism of specific points is one thing - wholesale discounting of a man's reputation and his work is something entirely different.

    Lastly, I'm going to make myself just as clear as icini tribe and Prodigal Son just did, and remind us all that 9/11 was a pretext for war - war-for-profit nonetheless - by sociopaths and psychopaths. It was the murder of approximately 3000 US citizens, and perhaps 1000 first responders that gave their all to help are also fighting cancers and other life threatening diseases.

    As a direct consequence of 9/11, over ONE MILLION Iraqi and Afghani individuals are dead now, and hundreds of thousands more displaced...and their countries (except for oil fields, pipelines, and military bases) are destroyed. The Patriot Act was a direct result, as was the militarization of police and creation of the Police State, the creation and metastasis of Homeland Security and the Security State, the persecution of whistleblowers, the creation of publicly admitted, sanctioned torture, the continuation of the PNAC plans in the rest of the Middle East and Northern Africa... this ain't a game.

    In my estimation, this is the nefarious work of the most evil and cunning people in recorded history - and they're not even finished yet! So, anyone wants to defend the lying sons-of-bitches, the murderous monsters and their complicit minions is gonna get an earful from me.

    Avalon is an extremely diverse community, and I have no problem with debate over the specifics of how some of 9/11 was accomplished (like mini-nukes -vs- DEW -vs- nanothermite and conventional charges in the buildings), but NO ONE at Avalon should be regurgitating the official lies of the US government as the truth. I'd amend Prodigal Son's statement to read, Anybody who believes the official narrative/propaganda of 9/11, as told by the US government and NIST, is a seriously deluded mind-controlled lemming that would make Joe Goebbels proud. Further, if a person does not believe the official bedtime story but is covertly acting as a deliberate disinformation agent, they are full accomplices to domestic mass murder and international genocide.

    Dennis

    Hi, All:

    In response to the discussion above, Jim Fetzer's colleague Dennis Cimino wrote to the Avalon Forum with a requested clarification.

    Jim Fetzer has also now applied to join Project Avalon as a member (and has been accepted). I also assured Dennis Cimino and Jim Fetzer that the following statement would be posted.



    The reason that the VT article; "The Official Account about the Pentagon attack is a FANTASY" written by myself and sponsored by Prof Fetzer at Veteran's Today was 'pulled' is that Veteran's Today made that story unavailable immediately after my Vancouver Hearing talk referencing the article. The excuse given by VT at the time was that they were 'repairing it' or doing something to fix it, when in fact, this would have required Jim Fetzer's approval as he was the submittal agent. They did NOT have authority to mess with that article or make it OFF LINE. Hence, I then demanded ALL WORK OF MINE be removed from Veteran's Today, via Jim Fetzer, and the story was moved to Fetzer's website. It is not appropriate for anyone in your blog to cite or infer CRIMINALITY occurred and was the reason for article removal. That is not correct. The reason was that Veteran's Today, without Fetzer's approval, had made that story UNAVAILABLE after I had specifically referenced it in my speech in Vancouver, B.C. on June 17, 2001. I have issues with anyone inferring that anything in that story was CRIMINALITY on either my part or Jim Fetzer's part.

    feel free to contact me if you need further explanation or contact Jim Fetzer at

    jfetzer@d.umn.edu

    Thanks,

    D. Cimino
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 28th August 2012 at 02:59.

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    Default Re: 9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy

    Hiya Dennis,

    I'll give you any credentials you want....I'd love to talk on the phone to debate this. The truth needs to be in the open but it needs to be only the truth.

    Richard L. Rogers
    Wiggins, MS

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  39. Link to Post #20
    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9/11: The Official Account of the Pentagon Attack is a Fantasy

    Quote Posted by Oouthere (here)
    Hiya Dennis,

    I'll give you any credentials you want....I'd love to talk on the phone to debate this. The truth needs to be in the open but it needs to be only the truth.

    Richard L. Rogers
    Wiggins, MS
    Hi Richard,

    If you have data, please make it public.

    Jim Fetzer just joined. I invited Dennis Cimino to join as well. (I hope he does.) Then I would not need to be a go-between if you have specific points to argue.

    Besides, I'm going to be worthless to argue with if you're going to talk about technical issues beyond my understanding, such as aeronautical engineering and the capability of a jumbo jet to fly at high speed and low altitude (this is just an example of one of the kinds of details that I see people arguing about the Pentagon missile puncture site) - or other technical issues that Dennis C will have to answer.

    My bet is working backwards: A jumbo jet (757) did not slam into the Pentagon. I bet $2.3 Trillion Dollars on that. They have even had 11 years to make fake footage, but even they know they can't show that big 'ol wingspan approaching the building, grass unscathed, and visually "explain" how those wings didn't leave "wing prints."

    I was talking to a 9/11 deunker (I'm not saying you're a debunker) not too long ago about the impossibility of WTC building 7 to have fallen a free-fall speed in any sort of natural collapse. He explained that the buildings were mostly full of air, so there you have it. The physics of the structural steel is dismissed and the notion is inserted that the physics formulas do work out, because there was nothing but air in the way. I suppose if 3 miracles can happen on one day (the first, second, and third steel framed buildings in history to collapse due to fire) that perhaps both wings of the 757 could have inexplicably sheared off moments before impact, and were sucked into the partial vacuum created by the fuselage zooming past - thus entering the same missile, er, I mean fuselage impact hole and leaving no "wing prints" on the building's exterior. The guy I spoke with about building 7 would probably remind me that a jumbo jet is mostly air anyway.

    Heck, maybe you're not even contesting the impact was not a jumbo jet. Maybe you're focused on other details like cabin doors or NORAD blips or something. You said about Dennis C's article:
    Quote "There are SOOOOOO many provable errors in his analysis that it makes my blood boil."
    I should probably shut up and give you a chance to list the provable errors. But, let me ask the one burning question first: Do you agree with the official story of what happened at the Pentagon on 9/11, and did a 757 slam into the Pentagon or not? (oops, that was two questions)

    Dennis


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