We Need to Depopulate the Earth

[Ellisa]

noprophet- you are so right!

Until the 19th C the average family consisted of many pregnancies, 1- 3 wives (deaths in childbirth were common-place), and of the numerous babies born possibly 2 or 3 reached breeding age themselves. The discovery of antiseptics and chloroform helped to make childbirth safer for both women and children. If you are a mother and reading this and your child's birth required medical intervention it is more than likely one of you, or both, would have died. My child and/or I certainly would have. The massive families of the Victorian era are a direct result of safer childbirth. In the developed world we simply do not need to have so many children now. Our children survive and their childhoods are healthier.

These changed circumstances are something we can control by ensuring that health care and contraception, of all sorts, is readily available. Then we can turn our attention to the much more difficult problems of entrenched resistance to social change.

[Mad Hatter]

Mad Hatter dons his cynics cap...

Hmm...still waiting for the OP or any other poster to address the question of where all these resources are disappearing in a CLOSED system...too hard???

/SARCASM

Perhaps I did not speak to the listening...

Lets see now 5000 pieces of a puzzle in a box, shake box as much as you want, well what do you know you still got 5000 pieces of puzzle in a box...

Gee with that opening I have to wonder where all the proponents of re cycling solutions went??

How about an easier one... the natural die off of the baby boomers, you now that massive post ww1/2 bulge in population, have those ensnared in the fear porn factored that in since IIRC its becoming exceedingly obvious the current tax base is rapidly shrinking in many western countries to a point where instead of 5 taxpayers supporting one retiree within a decade or so it'll be more like one taxpayer for every five retired.

Still...lets not let simple facts get in the way of a good yarn eh...

Even more hysterical IMO is the entirely arrogant concept that something one chromosne up the evolutionary ladder above a chimpanzee is somehow worth saving especially given its oh so intelligent conributions to the universe to date...

meh

/SARCASM

[sdv]

I agree with the comments about changing our mindset. Free contraception (and abortion) are available in my country for everyone (and it is common to find free condom dispensers in washroooms), yet population growth continues, especially among the poor (and teenage pregnancies in schools - girls as young as 13 - is not unusual at all).
We need to change our mindset about consumerism and change it to sustainability (less is more).
The ironic thing is that in all these informal settlements people have TVs (yes!) and so they are exposed to and then aspire to the lifestyles they see (and all the advertising).
I really don't know what the answer is, but whatever we are doing now does not seem to be working!

[blufire]

Heeellllooo . . . . . I have a question . . . . . why is it when we speak of birth control and education it is focused all most totally on the women of the planet ??

The male of our species are the ones that spew thousands of offspring producing cells and some are capable of spewing two and three times a day . . . . we women drop one cell a month that is capable of producing a youngun’.

[9eagle9]

Earlier up thread I explained it is the conditioned programming men are given and assume about male potency. Males really do not have much to do with the process of creating a child besides making that one deposit, I suppose this male potentcy attitude is a way to over compensate that they are , realistically speaking, not all that necessary. That's really something ingrained in the male psyche and not just from this lifetime. We are finding out more about mitochondrial DNA that comes down from the maternal side that makes the patriachal contribution to not appear as 'equal value'.

They don't 'like' birthcontrol. Vasectomies 'hurt' (having ones's tubes tied is a peice of cake though?

They don't like condoms, that they have to wear once and then discard. It's okay though that a woman has to remember to take a pill the same time every day even if it makes them sick or so hormonal that the woman becomes an unpleasant partner. Perversly enough some contraceptives lower a woman's libido ...a sort of cruel joke, eh? heh, heh.

What you have mentioned is a very old patriachal attitude. Its based on a lot of ages old generational, social and culturual attitudes. When men began to lose their voice in having control over a woman's body they used these old attitudes as a defense against feeling unimportant. You want to be in control of yoru body, YOU take care of the birth control. And then when a woman says if you want my body, YOU take birth control it's considered an afront , again, to their male potentcy.

Men obsess about their potentcy and women don't tend to think much about how spectacular their womb is, and understand mostly that is not responsible toward providing their self idenity.

Some philosophers refer to it as womb envy...lol.

Posted by blufire (here)
Heeellllooo . . . . . I have a question . . . . . why is it when we speak of birth control and education it is focused all most totally on the women of the planet ??

The male of our species are the ones that spew thousands of offspring producing cells and some are capable of spewing two and three times a day . . . . we women drop one cell a month that is capable of producing a youngun’.

[Peace of Mind]

There is nothing wrong with the growth of our population, the more the merrier. The issue is with greed/ arrogance and lack of respect and responsibility.

To even think of ONE reason why we should depopulate without putting YOURSELF as one of those to be part of the depopulated is a sign of shame and false entitlement. There is no one on this planet move deserving than the next. We have plenty of everything but we also waste a lot too….from food to its packaging, to clothes, resources, energy and especially our time. If there is to be any depopulation it should be the species as a whole. If we can't change our ways we all need to parish (again), and this demise will happen at the hands of us, no one/thing/entity will assit or intervine. We are doing a rather splendid job of killing us and our planet. Even though the Earth fights off us parasites from time to time (with her natural disasters) we are still ahead of schedule.

The Human is just too conditioned and blind to see their own faults and hypocrisies. They want a certain vision to manifest but don’t want to put in the real work and commitments to see it through. Until we all unite...who ever claims worthyness is just stating their opinion...and nothing more. On a deep level…this is a very telling and yet disturbing thread.

Peace

[13th Warrior]

Posted by S-L (here)
We need to depopulate this world through compassionate means. Our industrial and technological development have brought blessings to the world. We've also brought the seeds of our own annihilation. We are an environmental burden to this planet. We need to shift our relationship with this world. The keyword is sustainability. Is your lifestyle sustainable? Is our human civilization sustainable?

The need is there. The need is now! And yesterday. If we do not depopulate willingly through compassionate means, it will be forced upon us by nature's reckoning. We need to think about the future. Our future. Your future. This generation and the next.

The world will inevitably hit 9 billion. Environmental degradation through years of abuse will leave this world unable to feed humanity. Adjustments will have to be made. It would be advantageous for humanity to be proactive in this matter. History predicts humanity will busy itself looking at its navel instead. Wise ones once said: "If humanity cannot learn in times of prosperity, it will learn in times of despair." We will learn out of necessity.

How will we reduce our population once it becomes apparent we must do so? Do we really need 7 billion people on this planet? Or 9? Why? The more the merrier? Gaia is Great, but she is limited. We must reduce population numbers to a more manageable 1 or 2 billion. Is this a crime against humanity, or a gift to the same? Why does human civilization need the most people possible? Resource constraints beg for a different answer. A more sensible answer. A highly educated and motivated set of 1 or 2 billion people would be far more effective than a destitute 9 billion poverty stricken humans. Sustainability is not an option - one of many. It is the only option. Either we are sustainable, or we are dead. The choice is obvious.

How will this be achieved?

Who is we?

Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

[observer]

I'm going to bump this comment because it obviously went unnoticed by most of the members commenting in this thread.

Posted by observer (here)
This depopulation agenda is called eugenics and has been a principal thesis of the global elite since long before it was called National Socialism (NAZI)
http://hnn.us/articles/1796.html

The question is not, should we depopulate the planet, but, who gets to select which among us are the candidates for the depopulation process?

You are treading in very turbulent waters S-L....

(Warning: Adult Content)

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tncnWp67wQI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tncnWp67wQI

The issue here is not birth control.... or pollution.... or sustainability, these are all issues of personal choice. The bottom line, here, is: who gets to choose?

[crested-duck]

Posted by sygh (here)

Posted by Lost Soul (here)
Are you killing yourself for humanity's sake? After all, lead by example.

More seriously, how long have you been with TPTW?

That is a ridiculous thing to say. We are over-populated now. You don't have to be a part of the power that be/were to get this, you simply have to be realistic. That is, unless you believe a miracle is going to happen, and all of the flora and fauna currently gone extinct, or currently in danger of becoming extinct will magically reappear, just to tell us it was all a joke.

The automatic smart answer, seemingly abundant around here these days, is to say.. you first. My, that's original. Are you saying that you cannot be held personally responsible? That you, or I are not part of the problem but the exception? If so, what are you doing to offset the years of utter destruction of our natural resources? Do you think it will be enough, or do you care only of yourself? Either we do something voluntarily, and I believe S-L means have less babies and work on restoring our natural resources, or it wll be done for us. Learn from feast or famine.

Forgive me if I sound miffed, I am. S-L is being honest and everyone else plays favorite answer.

Educate yourself with JFK's plan called NAWAPA- It was a plan to prevent this current problem, and eventually bring into existance free energy at a later time. This plan worked in conjunction with throwing out the british oligarchical principles that have taken us over today and returning to a credit system just like the Massachussettes Bay Colony had used. JFK was alreaddy working with Russia to end human enslavement by way of the oligarchical system infiltration. So who exactly is leading the british oligarchy system from behind the scenes??? All roads lead back to the vatican. THIS IS THE TRUTH!!! and the reason for my Truth Bomb thread. So now that you know who killed JFK and why, you have to make a choice. Keep talking and running around in circles, or kill the beast that wants you dead or a slave. Prove me wrong if you can, and while you're researching and trying to discredit me you will learn the truth for yourself!

[crested-duck]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Seikou-Kishi (here)
Precisely Maia! Although I'd argue we couldn't all live comfortably in Texas... I hear it's pretty hot :D

Well, so long as y'all don't mind living in air conditioned indoors for half the year, and we've got that free energy thing working well ... not enough Texas oil left to cool the entire world's population, and we'd also need that free energy thing to convert water in the Gulf of Mexico into drinking water on a large scale, ... and the little matter of feeding us all, with none of the farms or pastures or forests inhabited in the rest of the world anymore, and with no room for farms, pastures or forests in Texas ... details, details, ...

If the RCC had not had JFK killed NAWAPA would have been built long ago, and there would be water and food being grown in Texas today. Expansion and evolution are a natural law and the way the whole universe operates, thos that understand this and have planned for it have been eliminated by guess who! All roads lead back to the vatican RCC. Prove me wrong if you can! I alreaddy have spent way too many hours learning this very true reality, so quit going in circles and make a plan and follow through with what you feel you can do to correct this injustice against 99% of humanity. My personal plan is tell the truth as I've always done and inform people of what they do not want to look at and admit is real. My wife and I decided to have 1 child period and love it unconditionally, either sex did'nt matter, evolution is natural,expansion is natural, it's how you evolve with it that counts. As long as RCC exists 99% are doomed to death or slavery, period. There is no other issue worth any of us talking about at this time!

[joedjemal]

Posted by blufire (here)
Sustainability or to Sustain . . . .sustain means to be able to maintain, continue or keep going.

It has been mentioned on this thread that we could fit the world population in Texas or Rhode Island and this is true BUT what no one has addressed, pragmatically, is what it takes for those 7 billion to have adequate food, water or minimal living conditions.

I am only going to address FEEDING 7 billion people. This post will not take into account the water 7 billion people need or all the other natural resources needed each year to produce materials for homes, cars, electronics fuel etc.

Worldwide there is a total of 36 billion acres of landmass. Of that landmass only 7.68 billion acres is arable or farmable.

As it is now we feed the global population with gmo produced food, which is farmed by the billions of acres with chemicals.

It takes 3 acres, per person, each year to provide that person with a minimal amount of food farmed with this method.

7 billion people X 3 acres = 21 billion acres

To be able to sustain or continue to produce enough food for 7 billion we need 21 billion acres . . . . we are RIGHT NOW 13 billion acres short.

Which is why we have people by the thousands dropping dead every day by malnutrition or starvation.

In order to produce enough food for 7 billion that is sustainable and that also healthy, chemical free, nutrient rich food 12 acres per person is needed.

7 billion people X 12 acres = 84 billion acres

Which puts humanity 76 billion acres short of farmable land and not only that but 40 billion acres short of landmass . . . . . period.

Let’s say we were able to implement FE (free energy) right now and at the same time invent sustainable ways to also farm our oceans. It still would not do us any good. There simply are not enough natural resources to maintain this level of population while maintaining a balanced eco system.

Yes, there are those on this thread who say we can create new farmland by using our forests and deserts etc. True. But, then we are left with a totally destroyed global eco-system . . . . .

Balance?

What happens to the animals and plant life that inhabit those eco systems? What happens to us when we remove that delicate balance of the earth’s eco system? Is this our right? Does this not sound completely self absorbed and over the top greedy?

There are many on this thread saying it is tptb, cabal or whoever that is doing this to us and that it is their fault and they are trying to kill us. Are they? Looks like to me we are doing a pretty good job of it ourselves; we demand cheap food, fuel, technology . . . . . . . .

We don’t have the farmable land or renewable natural resources to maintain this level of population and this fact and is not “their” fault or diabolical scheme.

I am not proposing we start “culling the herd” or depopulating the earth, but I am saying we are way past the tipping point and the result within the next few years will be devastating. There is no “fixing it” even with a boat load of miracles or ‘other’ intervention or free energy.

We are selfish, disillusioned Takers. This is obvious to me. Even with many posting on this thread.

Blufire has it. It's all laid out right there. We're a species in overshoot and every single species that does that in nature (which we inhabit like it or not) goes into a dieoff shortly afterwards. We're nearly there. I think that that is one of the reasons that people have been pushed into the cities over the last 50 years or so. It makes the process survivable for those outside them. A sudden infrastructure failure would kill virtually all city dwellers within a couple of months. All it would take to kick it off is a generalised banking failure. The end of the cash machines would mean systemic failure within 3 days. But you can't warn people who can't understand the exponential function or the concept of finite systems, they just get angry, scream that you're a tool of the elite and get on with visualising physically impossible things and praying to their ascended masters in the space ships.

Won't be long now till we see which approach has value in the real world.

In my world we've nearly finished rabbit proofing the gardens and I have another 2 months of daily manual digging to do before
the summer. It hurts, but at least I'll have dinner. My new 12v incubator arrived yesterday.

I tried the collective approach to dealing with this but most people are in an utterly irrational state of denial. They always spout the one about us all fitting in a state but they never, ever think it through. They can't.

Oh well. Accept and ride through, do what you can and hope some nutcase doesn't unleash the world killer weapons.

[Amzer Zo]

Who are these "WE?"

Let me introduce you to some of the top ranking ones throught the work of an actual, genuine whistleblower Sue Ann Arrigo in her Chairman Waxman’s committee on Oversight and Government Reform submitted "case 26: Your sickness and Genocide Planned in the USA":

[photo of Kissinger, David Rockefeller, and Jay Rockefeller, Chairman on the Senate Select Intelligence Committee]

“Depopulation should be the highest priority of US foreign policy towards the Third World….”. Henry Kissinger National Security Memorandum (NSSM 200) early 1970’s

The US Shadow Govt. had a covert stated goal to depopulate the Earth down to 500 million people from the about 6 billion on it currently. Their planning document to do that formed the basis of the US Army’s Chemical and Biological Warfare Divisions research efforts. I am not alone in saying this.



In CIA researcher Robert Morrow’s book First Hand Knowledge he says that he was asked by the CIA to find a way to disable or kill all Americans excepts those that were able to get a life-saving drug that the Shadow Government could control. He decided that the best way to do that would be to cause hypothyroidism and control the supply of thyroid replacement medication. In fact, there has been a growing epidemic of hypothyroidism in the US. Some scientists attribute that to the above ground nuclear explosions at the Nevada Test site. It has been estimated that 60,000 new cases of thyroid cancer resulted from those tests. Meanwhile, people’s ability to buy desiccated animal thyroid supplements over the counter has disappeared. While such events could be coincidences, the research that I read led me to conclude that the Shadow Govt. sincerely wanted to have that kind of control over people’s health and lives and were working slowly and steadily towards that goal. When they are vigorously opposed by consumer groups they suffer setbacks in their agenda. Such setbacks have been many. If people only understood how dependent they are on the ignorance and apathy of the public, they would tell all their friends and neighbors and stop the Shadow Government’s control over the population.

Although it is difficult to believe that the Robber Barons would target Americans, and not just foreigners, it is true. I have supplied you with a bit of the evidence of that in other cases, such as the Ludlow Massacre of American women and children in Case 22A, and the unsafe addition of benzoate/benzoic acid, aspartame/Nutrasweet/Equal to sodas. If you read former US intelligence insider Al Martin’s The Conspirators, the US Shadow Govt. under Bush, Sr. as Vice President had a contingency plan to cause a limited nuclear war in order to have an excuse to impose martial law. Al Martin was briefed on that plan, Operation Orpheus, by Col. Ollie North of Iran Contra Scandal infamy. Al Martin asked Ollie North how many American lives the US Administration planned to expend in that limited nuclear war. Ollie North said, “It is just a number.” When Al Martin pressed him on what the number was he said, “50 to 70 million Americans.” If that is how many would die, how many would be left sick afterwards? Those who survived would be at high risk of cancer. And essentially all of those downwind from it would become hypothyroid and would only be able to function if they were able to obtain thyroid supplements from the drug companies. Those supplements could be rationed or made so expensive that only those who were loyal to the Robber Barons could get them.

The US Administration has been making many new germs and using the vaccines only for their own use. The HIV virus is a BioWarfare germ which was developed at Fort Detrick.

‘Over the past two decades there have been only a handful of other physicians and health professionals who have had the courage to alert the public to evidence that AIDS is man-made (namely Robert Strecker MD, William Campbell Douglass MD, Eva Snead MD, and Leonard G Horowitz DDS)’ and Dr. Alan Cantwell author of Queer Blood. http://dark-truth.blogspot.com/2007/06/more-evidence-hiv-was-man-made-bio.html

It was tested under the supervision of CIA officer Jim Jones on US blacks, hispanics, and Native Americans at Jonestown British Guiana. I met Jim Jones in the halls of the CIA after that. He did not die in that CIA mass murder atrocity that killed over 900 people. Most were not so well mind controlled as to ‘voluntarily commit suicide on cue’. Please read the book “Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?" by Robert Meier for more information. HIV did not accidently escape from Fort Detrick; it was intentionally used to target populations, mainly blacks and Third World people. For example, HIV infected units of blood were sent to sickle cell clinics in Africa, put in vaccines used in Africa, India, Thailand, etc. But, infected blood was also wittingly sent by the Shadow govt. to Canada with the intention of infecting that population as well. The Robber Barons only consider the top 500 wealthiest families in the world to be “their own”. In their agenda, they want to allow each of those families to have a million relatives on the face of the earth and wipe out all the other people. That can be done by creating new germs and taking safe vaccines to them, while withholding those vaccines from everyone else. Thus, they have developed a vaccine against HIV which they have taken but hidden from the rest of the world. In my report to Tenet, I stated that this was a crime against humanity which was being perpetuated on a daily basis. After he read my report, I asked him what he was going to do about all those crimes against humanity, as each new germ represented one. He hemmed and hawed and then offered lamely that he was not the one making the decision. I asked him who was. He did not answer that question directly. He said, “Well, you can come with me to the next Presidential briefing in the morning and discuss it with Bush, if you think that it will do any good.”

I doubted it would do any good, but in the interests of thoroughness I did it anyway. I took with me a large stack of my report. My report was over 225 pages with a couple hundred pages of supporting documents. So, each report was almost a ream with of paper. I put 10 of them in a box to take with me. Both Cheney and Bush were at that Presidential briefing that morning. And Rice was called into it when I started giving my briefing on the poor quality of the research done at the BioWarfare Labs. At the end of my almost 12 minutes, I concluded with my recommendation that all the labs be closed down.

Bush, Jr. said to me, “We wanted to know how to make the research more effective. What are your recommendations to do that?”

I asked him, “More effective in what way?” That was a loaded question because they did not want to come out and say in front of the many foreign bugs likely to be in the Oval Office, “At killing off most of the people in the world so we can have all the resources of the planet for just our own children.” So, there was a brief uncomfortable silence.

Then Cheney said, “You know what we want. What do we have to do to get the level of science up to be able to accomplish it?”

I started off on the tangent of how to make the research safe enough to even do and recommended tongue in cheek that it at least be moved off shore to join their investments. Rice laughed at that. The others did not. They wanted the BioWarfare Labs on US soil to be able to claim an accidental release when one was intentional. That suggested to me that Rice was not as close into the loop on the actual agenda as the others.

Cheney then said to me “Just get to the point and tell us what needs to be done to get the kill ratios up to usable to immobilize a whole population.”

I said, “Of healthy well fed soldiers or starving villagers?”

He said, “Assume a healthy population’.

Then Bush, Jr. added in “What does it take to kill everyone who isn’t vaccinated? Can’t we just use several germs at the same time?”

Cheney frowned at that because Bush had said more than was wise for plausible deniability. He tried to cover for Bush and added, “In the event of war.”

I said, “We are in a war now. It is likely that MiddleEasterners have different susceptibility rates than Westerners.”

Bush, Jr. said, “Well, we want to be able to cover all bases.”

Tenet rolled his eyes up to the ceiling at Bush’s continued faux pas.

Rice tried to rescue him this time and said, “This is just theoretical so that we understand all facets of the problem.”

Bush leapt back in and said, “No, I really need to know in case I decide to launch this globally.”

Cheney got up and left the room, apparently because Bush had said too much and he didn’t want to be implicated by what else Bush said. But that did not help Cheney because the next thing that Bush, Jr. said was ‘Cheney and I already discussed this before you came this morning and we are of the same mind on it. We want the capacity to wipe out all of the “lesser beings” on the planet.’

I played dumb and asked him how he defined that.

He said, “You know, all those who are not members of the CFR already”

“And their families?” I offered.

“Well, not all of them,” he said. “You know The List.”

I handed him a copy of it to make sure that we were talking about the same list. He nodded yes, and repeated “What do we have to do to get down to just those people?”

I told him that their current plans were not good because the science was so faulty that even if you used multiple germs that those people had already received the vaccines on, that the number of people left alive were likely to overwhelm all defenses and overrun and kill the perpetrators.

“That means us, doesn’t it?” he asked.

Rice was shifting uncomfortably in her chair--apparently she knew that that her family was not on that list.

I said, “Yes. And I don’t think that you can improve the research quality at the Labs without inspiring a culture of honesty in them first.”

“How do we do that?” he asked.

“Leadership” I replied. “Model the behavior that you want them to have by being honest.”

“What about incentives? Cash incentives?”, he asked.

“You already have such a system in place. The researchers know that they can get an extra $100,000 by creating a new germ. It is not improving the quality of the research, it is only making more germs.”

“But then we will succeed by having lots of them!” he asserted.

“No, lots of them are “me too” germs and they can cause the body to develop immunity to many of the other germs in the program.”

“Then we can imprison all those who don’t do good research, to improve the quality. How long should they be imprisoned for?”

“I really don’t think that will work either”, I said. “They will get more devious, but not more honest.

We went around in circles like this for a while. Finally, Tenet said it was getting late.

Bush ended by saying, “I don’t think my being more honest is a good idea. People would find out the truth. I think that you better explain this to Rockefeller as I sure don’t want to have to. He is going to be very disappointed in you. You are failing to make this work the way we want it to. I don’t think that will be good for your health, if you keep on resisting us in this.”

Cheney came back in as Tenet and I were about to leave. I gave him, Bush, and Rice copies of my report. I also left a copy for Rumsfeld, the Head of the JCS, and others until I had none left.

Cheney said, “You expect us to read this?” I said, “The first 5 pages are the executive summary. The rest is to prove what I said in those 5 pages.”

Bush said, “Oh, I can read that much” and picked his copy back up off the side table he had set it on. Then he said to me vehemently, “This better deliver what I want or you will be sorry when Rockefeller hears of it.”

Cheney said to Bush, “Don’t worry. We have others to replace her.”

The next month they had 3 other people review the BioWarfare Lab’s research without first giving them my report. Those 3 people said much the same that I did--the science at the BioWarfare Labs was seriously flawed and untrustworthy.

Since the Shadow Govt. intends to make new germs to kill off 11 out of every 12 people, without exempting Americans, please inform your friends and neighbors to mobilize to stop. Use non-violent protests like Martin Luther King, Jr. taught us to do. There is still enough time. The poor science at those BioWarfare Labs means that the Shadow Government cannot count on a single of their exclusive vaccines working well to protect them. All they have is Yes men saying they will work. They are poorly tested because they wanted to hide the fact that they have made those germs. What they have is a 3-Stooges type of genocide by germ warfare plan.

The US Administration has not even been able to get the Iraqi people clean water and electricity after 5 years. Hitler was able to consolidate his gains into workable occupations and move onto to invading the next country using his success in the first countries. The current administration does not have the skill needed to have a single successful occupation after more time than the US spent fighting WWII. They think that they can lie their way to success by just declaring “Mission Accomplished”.



As I said before, Skull and Bones, the Rockefeller Family and the Illuminati in general worship death and believe that the gods they worship are pleased by it. They believe that their gods grant them favors, such as wealth, in proportion to how well they provide fear, anger, and ritual human sacrifices for them to feed off of. This is standard Aztec human sacrifice kind of magical thinking. Never mind that the Aztecs, the Druids, and Incans, that practiced such human sacrifices were ultimately unsuccessful as societies. They still appealed to the Pirates of Skull and Bones and the pseudo-mystical Illuminati. These people are not scientists. They do not have the patience for. They just want to rape and plunder populations without having to think too much about it.

Later I had a discussion with David Rockefeller over this Illuminati intended genocide of most of the planet’s population. That was shortly after Tenet resigned from the CIA but had not yet been replaced. So, McLaughlin was acting Director of CIA. And I had accompanied him to a Washington DC evening meeting at which David Rockefeller was present. After the meeting, McLaughlin and Rockefeller had a private meeting in which I was present mainly as a note taker. But since it touched on the expansion of the US BioWarfare programs, I was unable to keep my mouth firmly shut. Thus, I objected to the expansion and said so in no uncertain terms. Rockefeller accused me of subverting his plans to “purge the world of its shaff.” I said “Other people are not disposable coverings of grain”. He said, “Of course, they are. They are as unnecessary to this planet as extra bolts in a factory which is done making the equipment. There is nothing left to do with them than throw them out when one is done with their usefulness.” I bristled at that. McLaughlin tried to change the subject to defuse the situation. Rockefeller then said something that I did not expect. He said, “Don’t worry. I will have statues made of me that look like Christ so you can still have something to worship.” I was so shocked that I dropped the subject.

God gives life. Destroying life doesn’t make one a god, it makes one a murderer! If a person thinks that there are too many people on the planet then they should refrain from having children, not go around murdering others like criminals. Christ had no children. There is nothing wrong with practicing celibacy as a way of life.

Later, I found that not only had David Rockefeller commissioned bronzes of people jumping out of the WTC on 911, but he had commissioned bronzes of himself which looked like religious statues to worship. Because I found photos of them inside the CIA’s David Rockefeller Audio-Visual Center, I took them down to the CIA’s photo ID dept. I asked about 10 people in that dept. who the person represented in the statue was. The statue was textured on the face making it unclear whether the figure was bearded or not. Three of them said Rockefeller, though one of those said Nelson, not David. Most said a saint and two of them said, “Jesus”. That is how well the sculptor accomplished David Rockefeller’s wish to be immortalized as a Christ like figure while planning genocide to kill off 5.5 billion people!

But apparently he was not alone in that wish because Prince Phillip, husband of Queen Elizabeth II said,“If I were reincarnated, I would wish to be returned to Earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels.”


*********************************************

That should give to some the answer as to why the military are so dumb as to use DU (Depleted Uranium) ammunitions all over the planet?

Should also answer why that 500 millions figure on the Georgia Guidestones.

Should also give some and others why all these misdirects onto things like "Elenin," ET, "disclosure, etc... since it's right in our face.

*********************************************

Is there a solution to the "overpopulation" propaganda?

Of course there is!

But as anything that's flying in the teeth of vested interests like cancer cures, etc., it's not only not implemented but squashed and the opposite is enhanced: spreading poverty and non-education ignorance far and wide.

[Amity]

Posted by wavydome (here)
Seek and ye shall find...

How can i help :D

[S-L]

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
Who are these "WE?"

Let me introduce you to some of the top ranking ones throught the work of an actual, genuine whistleblower Sue Ann Arrigo in her Chairman Waxman’s committee on Oversight and Government Reform submitted "case 26: Your sickness and Genocide Planned in the USA":

[photo of Kissinger, David Rockefeller, and Jay Rockefeller, Chairman on the Senate Select Intelligence Committee]

“Depopulation should be the highest priority of US foreign policy towards the Third World….”. Henry Kissinger National Security Memorandum (NSSM 200) early 1970’s

The US Shadow Govt. had a covert stated goal to depopulate the Earth down to 500 million people from the about 6 billion on it currently. Their planning document to do that formed the basis of the US Army’s Chemical and Biological Warfare Divisions research efforts. I am not alone in saying this.



In CIA researcher Robert Morrow’s book First Hand Knowledge he says that he was asked by the CIA to find a way to disable or kill all Americans excepts those that were able to get a life-saving drug that the Shadow Government could control. He decided that the best way to do that would be to cause hypothyroidism and control the supply of thyroid replacement medication. In fact, there has been a growing epidemic of hypothyroidism in the US. Some scientists attribute that to the above ground nuclear explosions at the Nevada Test site. It has been estimated that 60,000 new cases of thyroid cancer resulted from those tests. Meanwhile, people’s ability to buy desiccated animal thyroid supplements over the counter has disappeared. While such events could be coincidences, the research that I read led me to conclude that the Shadow Govt. sincerely wanted to have that kind of control over people’s health and lives and were working slowly and steadily towards that goal. When they are vigorously opposed by consumer groups they suffer setbacks in their agenda. Such setbacks have been many. If people only understood how dependent they are on the ignorance and apathy of the public, they would tell all their friends and neighbors and stop the Shadow Government’s control over the population.

Although it is difficult to believe that the Robber Barons would target Americans, and not just foreigners, it is true. I have supplied you with a bit of the evidence of that in other cases, such as the Ludlow Massacre of American women and children in Case 22A, and the unsafe addition of benzoate/benzoic acid, aspartame/Nutrasweet/Equal to sodas. If you read former US intelligence insider Al Martin’s The Conspirators, the US Shadow Govt. under Bush, Sr. as Vice President had a contingency plan to cause a limited nuclear war in order to have an excuse to impose martial law. Al Martin was briefed on that plan, Operation Orpheus, by Col. Ollie North of Iran Contra Scandal infamy. Al Martin asked Ollie North how many American lives the US Administration planned to expend in that limited nuclear war. Ollie North said, “It is just a number.” When Al Martin pressed him on what the number was he said, “50 to 70 million Americans.” If that is how many would die, how many would be left sick afterwards? Those who survived would be at high risk of cancer. And essentially all of those downwind from it would become hypothyroid and would only be able to function if they were able to obtain thyroid supplements from the drug companies. Those supplements could be rationed or made so expensive that only those who were loyal to the Robber Barons could get them.

The US Administration has been making many new germs and using the vaccines only for their own use. The HIV virus is a BioWarfare germ which was developed at Fort Detrick.

‘Over the past two decades there have been only a handful of other physicians and health professionals who have had the courage to alert the public to evidence that AIDS is man-made (namely Robert Strecker MD, William Campbell Douglass MD, Eva Snead MD, and Leonard G Horowitz DDS)’ and Dr. Alan Cantwell author of Queer Blood. http://dark-truth.blogspot.com/2007/06/more-evidence-hiv-was-man-made-bio.html

It was tested under the supervision of CIA officer Jim Jones on US blacks, hispanics, and Native Americans at Jonestown British Guiana. I met Jim Jones in the halls of the CIA after that. He did not die in that CIA mass murder atrocity that killed over 900 people. Most were not so well mind controlled as to ‘voluntarily commit suicide on cue’. Please read the book “Was Jonestown a CIA Medical Experiment?" by Robert Meier for more information. HIV did not accidently escape from Fort Detrick; it was intentionally used to target populations, mainly blacks and Third World people. For example, HIV infected units of blood were sent to sickle cell clinics in Africa, put in vaccines used in Africa, India, Thailand, etc. But, infected blood was also wittingly sent by the Shadow govt. to Canada with the intention of infecting that population as well. The Robber Barons only consider the top 500 wealthiest families in the world to be “their own”. In their agenda, they want to allow each of those families to have a million relatives on the face of the earth and wipe out all the other people. That can be done by creating new germs and taking safe vaccines to them, while withholding those vaccines from everyone else. Thus, they have developed a vaccine against HIV which they have taken but hidden from the rest of the world. In my report to Tenet, I stated that this was a crime against humanity which was being perpetuated on a daily basis. After he read my report, I asked him what he was going to do about all those crimes against humanity, as each new germ represented one. He hemmed and hawed and then offered lamely that he was not the one making the decision. I asked him who was. He did not answer that question directly. He said, “Well, you can come with me to the next Presidential briefing in the morning and discuss it with Bush, if you think that it will do any good.”

I doubted it would do any good, but in the interests of thoroughness I did it anyway. I took with me a large stack of my report. My report was over 225 pages with a couple hundred pages of supporting documents. So, each report was almost a ream with of paper. I put 10 of them in a box to take with me. Both Cheney and Bush were at that Presidential briefing that morning. And Rice was called into it when I started giving my briefing on the poor quality of the research done at the BioWarfare Labs. At the end of my almost 12 minutes, I concluded with my recommendation that all the labs be closed down.

Bush, Jr. said to me, “We wanted to know how to make the research more effective. What are your recommendations to do that?”

I asked him, “More effective in what way?” That was a loaded question because they did not want to come out and say in front of the many foreign bugs likely to be in the Oval Office, “At killing off most of the people in the world so we can have all the resources of the planet for just our own children.” So, there was a brief uncomfortable silence.

Then Cheney said, “You know what we want. What do we have to do to get the level of science up to be able to accomplish it?”

I started off on the tangent of how to make the research safe enough to even do and recommended tongue in cheek that it at least be moved off shore to join their investments. Rice laughed at that. The others did not. They wanted the BioWarfare Labs on US soil to be able to claim an accidental release when one was intentional. That suggested to me that Rice was not as close into the loop on the actual agenda as the others.

Cheney then said to me “Just get to the point and tell us what needs to be done to get the kill ratios up to usable to immobilize a whole population.”

I said, “Of healthy well fed soldiers or starving villagers?”

He said, “Assume a healthy population’.

Then Bush, Jr. added in “What does it take to kill everyone who isn’t vaccinated? Can’t we just use several germs at the same time?”

Cheney frowned at that because Bush had said more than was wise for plausible deniability. He tried to cover for Bush and added, “In the event of war.”

I said, “We are in a war now. It is likely that MiddleEasterners have different susceptibility rates than Westerners.”

Bush, Jr. said, “Well, we want to be able to cover all bases.”

Tenet rolled his eyes up to the ceiling at Bush’s continued faux pas.

Rice tried to rescue him this time and said, “This is just theoretical so that we understand all facets of the problem.”

Bush leapt back in and said, “No, I really need to know in case I decide to launch this globally.”

Cheney got up and left the room, apparently because Bush had said too much and he didn’t want to be implicated by what else Bush said. But that did not help Cheney because the next thing that Bush, Jr. said was ‘Cheney and I already discussed this before you came this morning and we are of the same mind on it. We want the capacity to wipe out all of the “lesser beings” on the planet.’

I played dumb and asked him how he defined that.

He said, “You know, all those who are not members of the CFR already”

“And their families?” I offered.

“Well, not all of them,” he said. “You know The List.”

I handed him a copy of it to make sure that we were talking about the same list. He nodded yes, and repeated “What do we have to do to get down to just those people?”

I told him that their current plans were not good because the science was so faulty that even if you used multiple germs that those people had already received the vaccines on, that the number of people left alive were likely to overwhelm all defenses and overrun and kill the perpetrators.

“That means us, doesn’t it?” he asked.

Rice was shifting uncomfortably in her chair--apparently she knew that that her family was not on that list.

I said, “Yes. And I don’t think that you can improve the research quality at the Labs without inspiring a culture of honesty in them first.”

“How do we do that?” he asked.

“Leadership” I replied. “Model the behavior that you want them to have by being honest.”

“What about incentives? Cash incentives?”, he asked.

“You already have such a system in place. The researchers know that they can get an extra $100,000 by creating a new germ. It is not improving the quality of the research, it is only making more germs.”

“But then we will succeed by having lots of them!” he asserted.

“No, lots of them are “me too” germs and they can cause the body to develop immunity to many of the other germs in the program.”

“Then we can imprison all those who don’t do good research, to improve the quality. How long should they be imprisoned for?”

“I really don’t think that will work either”, I said. “They will get more devious, but not more honest.

We went around in circles like this for a while. Finally, Tenet said it was getting late.

Bush ended by saying, “I don’t think my being more honest is a good idea. People would find out the truth. I think that you better explain this to Rockefeller as I sure don’t want to have to. He is going to be very disappointed in you. You are failing to make this work the way we want it to. I don’t think that will be good for your health, if you keep on resisting us in this.”

Cheney came back in as Tenet and I were about to leave. I gave him, Bush, and Rice copies of my report. I also left a copy for Rumsfeld, the Head of the JCS, and others until I had none left.

Cheney said, “You expect us to read this?” I said, “The first 5 pages are the executive summary. The rest is to prove what I said in those 5 pages.”

Bush said, “Oh, I can read that much” and picked his copy back up off the side table he had set it on. Then he said to me vehemently, “This better deliver what I want or you will be sorry when Rockefeller hears of it.”

Cheney said to Bush, “Don’t worry. We have others to replace her.”

The next month they had 3 other people review the BioWarfare Lab’s research without first giving them my report. Those 3 people said much the same that I did--the science at the BioWarfare Labs was seriously flawed and untrustworthy.

Since the Shadow Govt. intends to make new germs to kill off 11 out of every 12 people, without exempting Americans, please inform your friends and neighbors to mobilize to stop. Use non-violent protests like Martin Luther King, Jr. taught us to do. There is still enough time. The poor science at those BioWarfare Labs means that the Shadow Government cannot count on a single of their exclusive vaccines working well to protect them. All they have is Yes men saying they will work. They are poorly tested because they wanted to hide the fact that they have made those germs. What they have is a 3-Stooges type of genocide by germ warfare plan.

The US Administration has not even been able to get the Iraqi people clean water and electricity after 5 years. Hitler was able to consolidate his gains into workable occupations and move onto to invading the next country using his success in the first countries. The current administration does not have the skill needed to have a single successful occupation after more time than the US spent fighting WWII. They think that they can lie their way to success by just declaring “Mission Accomplished”.



As I said before, Skull and Bones, the Rockefeller Family and the Illuminati in general worship death and believe that the gods they worship are pleased by it. They believe that their gods grant them favors, such as wealth, in proportion to how well they provide fear, anger, and ritual human sacrifices for them to feed off of. This is standard Aztec human sacrifice kind of magical thinking. Never mind that the Aztecs, the Druids, and Incans, that practiced such human sacrifices were ultimately unsuccessful as societies. They still appealed to the Pirates of Skull and Bones and the pseudo-mystical Illuminati. These people are not scientists. They do not have the patience for. They just want to rape and plunder populations without having to think too much about it.

Later I had a discussion with David Rockefeller over this Illuminati intended genocide of most of the planet’s population. That was shortly after Tenet resigned from the CIA but had not yet been replaced. So, McLaughlin was acting Director of CIA. And I had accompanied him to a Washington DC evening meeting at which David Rockefeller was present. After the meeting, McLaughlin and Rockefeller had a private meeting in which I was present mainly as a note taker. But since it touched on the expansion of the US BioWarfare programs, I was unable to keep my mouth firmly shut. Thus, I objected to the expansion and said so in no uncertain terms. Rockefeller accused me of subverting his plans to “purge the world of its shaff.” I said “Other people are not disposable coverings of grain”. He said, “Of course, they are. They are as unnecessary to this planet as extra bolts in a factory which is done making the equipment. There is nothing left to do with them than throw them out when one is done with their usefulness.” I bristled at that. McLaughlin tried to change the subject to defuse the situation. Rockefeller then said something that I did not expect. He said, “Don’t worry. I will have statues made of me that look like Christ so you can still have something to worship.” I was so shocked that I dropped the subject.

God gives life. Destroying life doesn’t make one a god, it makes one a murderer! If a person thinks that there are too many people on the planet then they should refrain from having children, not go around murdering others like criminals. Christ had no children. There is nothing wrong with practicing celibacy as a way of life.

Later, I found that not only had David Rockefeller commissioned bronzes of people jumping out of the WTC on 911, but he had commissioned bronzes of himself which looked like religious statues to worship. Because I found photos of them inside the CIA’s David Rockefeller Audio-Visual Center, I took them down to the CIA’s photo ID dept. I asked about 10 people in that dept. who the person represented in the statue was. The statue was textured on the face making it unclear whether the figure was bearded or not. Three of them said Rockefeller, though one of those said Nelson, not David. Most said a saint and two of them said, “Jesus”. That is how well the sculptor accomplished David Rockefeller’s wish to be immortalized as a Christ like figure while planning genocide to kill off 5.5 billion people!

But apparently he was not alone in that wish because Prince Phillip, husband of Queen Elizabeth II said,“If I were reincarnated, I would wish to be returned to Earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels.”


*********************************************

That should give to some the answer as to why the military are so dumb as to use DU (Depleted Uranium) ammunitions all over the planet?

Should also answer why that 500 millions figure on the Georgia Guidestones.

Should also give some and others why all these misdirects onto things like "Elenin," ET, "disclosure, etc... since it's right in our face.

*********************************************

Is there a solution to the "overpopulation" propaganda?

Of course there is!

But as anything that's flying in the teeth of vested interests like cancer cures, etc., it's not only not implemented but squashed and the opposite is enhanced: spreading poverty and non-education ignorance far and wide.

Of course, no one's suggesting we kill people. Who said that? All I'm suggesting is we find a compassionate means of reducing world population to a more sustainable level. This does not mean killing people. It means smaller families over many subsequent generations. To effectively reduce the world's population, not just stabilize it, we would need an average of less than 2 kids per family for many generations. This is already happening in some countries. Accomplishing this the world over would be hugely beneficial to our environmental sustainability, when combined with more efficient resource use, replinishing the natural environment, and moving away from a culture of rampant consumerism.

[Amzer Zo]

Posted by S-L (here)

Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
[...]

*********************************************

Is there a solution to the "overpopulation" propaganda?

Of course there is!

But as anything that's flying in the teeth of vested interests like cancer cures, etc., it's not only not implemented but squashed and the opposite is enhanced: spreading poverty and non-education ignorance far and wide.

Of course, no one's suggesting we kill people. Who said that? All I'm suggesting is we find a compassionate means of reducing world population to a more sustainable level. This does not mean killing people. It means smaller families over many subsequent generations. To effectively reduce the world's population, not just stabilize it, we would need an average of less than 2 kids per family for many generations. This is already happening in some countries. Accomplishing this the world over would be hugely beneficial to our environmental sustainability, when combined with more efficient resource use, replinishing the natural environment, and moving away from a culture of rampant consumerism.

Let me put it into other words: Hegellian dialectic

what's that mean?

It means buying into the propaganda of the created problem in order to implement the desired solution.

[EnergyGardener]

Posted by S-L (here)

Of course, no one's suggesting we kill people. Who said that? All I'm suggesting is we find a compassionate means of reducing world population to a more sustainable level. This does not mean killing people. It means smaller families over many subsequent generations. To effectively reduce the world's population, not just stabilize it, we would need an average of less than 2 kids per family for many generations. This is already happening in some countries. Accomplishing this the world over would be hugely beneficial to our environmental sustainability, when combined with more efficient resource use, replinishing the natural environment, and moving away from a culture of rampant consumerism.

If that was your original purpose, the thread might have read, "Designing our "Future" Utilizing Less Land with Abundance for All."

Per my earlier post on this thread, if you are being sincere that you were/are misunderstood, at best, that only makes you an idiot...

I only wish the other TBTW members would also step forward with such honesty of the / their status quo objectives.

S-L, I am concerned about the creation of negative karma with the obvious response and those of us that realize we would be the first chosen to go:

S-L: But you must really consider what you wrote on this thread here and what you set yourself up for....

Are you really TBTW or just an idiot? To most it may not make a difference.

To you it should:

If you are TBTW you are likely, more or less, screwed.

If you are an idiot, you have a brief time to figure it out.

As for the others that support the language and content of your Title, they certainly share the least of your condition...

[9eagle9]

Okay well ask yourself if you were in charge of the world who would you pick to inhabit with?

Emotionally reactive whiners or people who have certain amount of intellgience, that isn't dampened by emo-reactive states, that could be dedicated towards creating a better place to live.

People who view it as right to inhabit or ones that acknolwedge the responsiblity when one inhabits a planet?

Do you want folks who insist their personal feelings are most important towards making effective changes, or those who are willing to set aside their personal feelings for the greater good to find compromises that are mutually beneficial? Those who are able to explore difficult subjects without taking things as a personal threat (ie like some of the reactions we've seen in this thread).

Which one would you pick? Who would God pick to run a planet? Those who are stupid by choice or someone who was a bit more responsive towards planetary management because they've demonstrated an ability to manage themselves and their own environment?

Who would the powers-that- be pick?

It depends on determing what the powers-that-be want;a race of people on earth who aren't so self indulgent and a bit more responsive towards crisis besides waiting for ufos, or a calendar date to fix the mess we've collectively strayed into. Who knows that this whole new age ascenscion / 2012 scenario isn't some giant bait to see who is using their head and who isn't? Maybe they are closely watching people who don't 'fix' the PTB simply by referring to them as the powers that were. Are we being watched? Oh sure, we know that, watched, registered monitored, remote viewed our conversations tracked. What are they watching for exactly?

That is with the premise that perhaps the ptb HAVE to manage things otherwise the common folks continued self indulgence will take the whole planet off on a header.

Or is their intent to preserve those who would be able to set aside their reactive states, and employ a certain amount of undampered intellect. I'd suggest that we can't 'wish' our problems away or have a tantrum to correct them. I have recently witnessed a great of this forum who went into a hysterical fear state because on their new age idols were threatened. And these people think they can govern a planet wide crisis? S

In our known eugenics programs what people were primarily targeted?

Was it what society considered low intellect or low intellgience people or inferior in some way? Not to say that they WERE but those doing the eugenics certainly percieved them to be.

So if you've proceeded to make yourself stupid with your choices that promote reactive states when those choices were challenged, and your solution to everything is to first consult your personal feelings or what the daily ufo channeler has to say on the matter you may be a bit threatened by that statement.

If the aim is optimal world management we're talking about an entire planet, not running a day care or a holistic health clinic.

Optimally managing an entire planet would would require people who were well versed with the sort of intellect that could allow them to contribute, and keep their personal 'feelings' out of things, to such topics s astrophysics, psychology, animal husbandry, health, farming and sustainablity, public health and safety, biology, oceanography--to name a few-- in a way that is geared not towards personal preferences but optimally managing the resources of the planet toward sustainablity and survival.

Or would depopulation preserve a race of reactive eople who are easily controlled , and can't use the critical thinking skills neccessary, who offers solutons like "wait, don't do anything, your perfect, a ufo is coming to fix things or everything is going magickally fix itself in December of 2012. Or armageddon will take care of the bad guys. "This last suggestion..... they already have a population like that. I'm certain they don't need to grow more folks like that. That's established for them--people who are basically controlled by their emotional state, and the attached religions that prompted that emotional state, whether its old or new ones.

Now if this is the scenario and you're just naturally mentally challenged or emotionally challenged I'm not sure what to say other than that is regretful and there is no easy conversation to explore that topic,and those people are basically already contained if not by their condition but by what public assistance and medicine provides. What sort of quality of life that provides is debateable. There are times we have to take a brutal look at things and one is the care of anyone in a vegetative state, eats up millions over the course of years that could very well provide for individuals who are challenged only environmental conditions that cause the spread of disease etc throughout the entire planet.

Before we get reactive , I'm not saying I'm for or against unplugging the mentally challenged , I'm stating looking at this from a 360 view and keeping one's personal feelings out of the way for the moment to consider what ploy may be afoot in our shadow governments. Of course someone will take what I say personally as i've issued a death threat and then revealed to everyone abraod how they feel about themselves.

If you are delberately making yourself stupid, I'd have to say that your choice doesn't trend towards determinging your self preservation if this is what is actually being arranged here.

Other things to consider: intellgient people, necessary to planet wide sustainablity, may be a threat to a power structure that is more important to the ptb than where they are currently parking their arses at. I know its horrible of me to suggest in public that some people are not as smart as others and that wisdom is just another right automatically granted to us but to be blunt not everyone has the same level of intellgience. What may be percieved as the greatest idiocy is the choice to make one's self dumb. Those mentally challenged in fact come out a bit ahead of the curve there, they were mentally handicapped through no choice of their own.

And with this hysteria about women 'leading' the world, one might wonder if that means there's a plan afoot to kill off men. Certainly women can be artificially inseminated with a bank of donated sperm.

[write4change]

Wow. Have to think about all that and read it again. But nothing turns me on like a woman who speaks her mind with the power of her truth. I felt this so intensely eagle that I just had to salute! I am also LOL.

[EnergyGardener]

Some of us take it personally when idiots attempt to use assumptions with the existing rules and archaic systems to justify our murder.

Keep writing, please.

At least you are consistent with each other of your intentions and more honest as you antiseptically provide all of your support data.

[jorr lundstrom]

This subject seems to be strong acid.

All is well


Jorr