We Need to Depopulate the Earth

[joedjemal]

I don't think it's a matter of needs or wants, I think this is too big for any individual or group to deal with. The answer will be emergent. The population will get to a sustainable size because it must. I think nature will decide how it happens. Just like it does with overpopulating reindeer or rabbits. Predators, disease or famine. Free energy won't help either because energy isn't the only limiting factor. In fact it would probably make the situation a lot worse. It's the main reason I decided not to have kids.

[Mad Hatter]

Posted by joedjemal (here)
It's the main reason I decided not to have kids.

Raises another oft overlooked angle in this deabte. That being what happens, as in this case, when the more intelligent amongst us choose this path. Will that not just lower the average IQ of the remaining gene pool..?

[9eagle9]

Good point Hatter.

In the short term yes, it would sure seem that way but is with the assumption that intellgient people don't have kids at all. Limiting reproduction perhaps, lessens that risk.

An intellgient child lost in large family may never been given the chance to excercize their intelligience anywa. These days if someone observes a lot of allegedly spiritual philosophies deride intellgience, so there is peer pressure amongst adults even that intellect is a vice, not a virtue. If intellgience doesn't disappear through not having intellgient kids and an avalanche of sub-intellgient ones, it will be socially unacceptable eventually if this current vane continues in society that intellgience is dirty word.

In the long term though, intellgient people have a means of self preservation that less intellgient one's don't. I noticed myself when I have attempted to convey to someone that they practice something that is intended to dumb them down (or worse) they are resentful and insist on doing it anyway. Their own lack of intellgience, or refusal to bring that intellgience forward will eventualy be their undoing.

History speaks of a previous anthrological cross roads where Neanderthals died out in whatever fashion, absorption or competetion due to the presence of homosapiens.

We may have hit another anthropological crossroads--not between Neanderthals vs Homosapiens but between levels of and lacks of intelligence. All sorts of intellgience I mean. Literal IQ sort, emotional intellgience, spiritual intellgience, etc

[Maia Gabrial]

S-L is just keeping everybody all worked up for nothing.

[S-L]

Posted by Maia Gabrial (here)
S-L is just keeping everybody all worked up for nothing.

Your "location" is "beautiful planet earth" - how long would you like to keep it that way? Indefinitely? If that's the case, then these are things to consider seriously.

[Magnus]

Posted by Mad Hatter (here)

Posted by joedjemal (here)
It's the main reason I decided not to have kids.

Raises another oft overlooked angle in this deabte. That being what happens, as in this case, when the more intelligent amongst us choose this path. Will that not just lower the average IQ of the remaining gene pool..?

Quote from: http://abagond.wordpress.com
"If genes were everything and if IQ were truly an all-encompassing test of intelligence, low IQ people would not be having high IQ grandchildren."

May i suggest, that the level of intelligence, at least to some degree, is uniqe to each specific soul, consequently brought into this world at incarnation level as a result of accumulated wisdom and experiences through the journey of individually varying extent of incarnations, translating into intelligence and iq within the present state of existence?

[mexrph]

There are no "compassionate means" to depopulate the earth. You need to inform yourself of a sinister agenda called AGENDA 21. It is being pushed by very sinister people who are working for a new dark ages in which you are intended to be a serf (if they let you live) and they intend to be the feudal lords.

[pyriel]

Sorry to break it to you but earth CAN sustain alot more people then what's on the planet now.. There is so much farm land out there. You can even grow food in your own home.. It's not hard so learn to do it.. Depopulation is just the TPTB's way of say "OH ****, we cant control so many people!!!! what the hell do we do!!!! KIll half the people on earth, hurry hurry!!!" They have nothing special or worthwhile to say so move on.

[Ellisa]

What you are ignoring, pyriel is that the main question is not--- can Earth support more multitudes of humans, but can it continue to support the multitudes of other species, plants, forests seas and oceans, frozen wastes and hot deserts it is doing at present? Do we really want to be huddling over the mung beans we are growing in the kitchen, or killing the hand-reared lamb in our one crowded room?

Maybe where you live this home-farming may be possible, but many people in the world today are past the tipping point. Not only are there famines in many places, but also food shortages that cause hunger and malnutrition, nut not death. Some Pacific islanders are already having to move villages to higher ground, and if there is none available a farmer who could sustain his/her family before becomes landless and life is perilous.

As I posted before-- we who are chatting here on this topic have lives of unimaginable luxury. The fact you are reading this tells me that you have access to electricity, a computer, a chair probably enough food and drink and no worries about tomorrow's supply, as well as education and time for leisure. You may say you disagree-- but right now there are children eating dirt from hunger. The causes for their hunger are many, crops may fail, rain hasn't fallen, there are floods, and they are poor as all their family has always been- and of course there is often unrest if not actual war.

Assuming that there are enough resources to ensure no one is going hungry anywhere is obviously over-optomistic . Assuming we can cover the world with a greater density humanity and maintain our own living standards while the inhabitants of the poorer countries catch us up is also unrealistic. Think about the disasters that happen in Nature when there is an over population-- are we sure we will be immune?

[9eagle9]

No you may not suggest that. People want to percieve themselves as equal. so you can't suggest that they are more intelligent people in the world when its obvious its true regardless of how it comes about.

But I happen to agree with you, 'higher' knowledge. People are on a spiritual quest to find their higher selves and, I for the life of me, do not understand why they think something that is unlimited wouldn't have an accompanying intellgience . Why bother seeking out one's higher self if its going to be as dumb as the lower mind.

Posted by Magnus (here)

Posted by Mad Hatter (here)

Posted by joedjemal (here)
It's the main reason I decided not to have kids.

Raises another oft overlooked angle in this deabte. That being what happens, as in this case, when the more intelligent amongst us choose this path. Will that not just lower the average IQ of the remaining gene pool..?

Quote from http://abagond.wordpress.com:
"If genes were everything and if IQ were truly an all-encompassing test of intelligence, low IQ people would not be having high IQ grandchildren."

May i suggest, that the level of intelligence, at least to some degree, is uniqe to each specific soul, consequently brought into this world at incarnation level as a result of accumulated wisdom and experiences through the journey of individually varying extent of incarnations, translating into intelligence and iq within the present state of existence?

[Maia Gabrial]

Posted by Maia Gabrial (here)
S-L is just keeping everybody all worked up for nothing.
Your "location" is "beautiful planet earth" - how long would you like to keep it that way? Indefinitely? If that's the case, then these are things to consider seriously.

There is NO reason for depopulation. What needs to die is the mismanagement of our world.

There is a race of beings who live on a planet that has less living area than we do on Earth and yet their entire race lives better than we do. This particular planet, Iarga is mostly oceanic with only 4 islands for the inhabitants to exist on.

They know that if they don't take care of their people, they will die as a race. Their world is beyond imagination because they've made efficient use of every piece of area. The difference between them and us is that they actually LOVE all of their people; and not one is left out.

This is what we lack and that's why it's so easy to consider depopulation and wars as a means to solve a non-existent problem. How people misunderstand the word, Love....

Every race we have on Earth is precious because they're unique throughout the cosmos. They may have the genetics of 22 other races spliced in, but that's what makes them even more unique. They are ONLY found here on Earth. If anything, THAT should be a priority for our existence. Sorry, only being rich or educated just doesn't cut it....and are easily remedied for everyone.

We are so fortunate to have a beautiful planet with so much room that our people are spread out across it. The people of Iarga live closer together and yet they have more room per person than we do and each one lacks for NOTHING. We can't say the same, can we? How many homeless do we have? How many are dying of hunger? It's not that there's no room for them or food to feed them because there is. Everything has been intentionally destroyed or suppressed by the elites and this is to their shame.... Their greed and ineptitude is the ONLY thing that needs to go.

I'm thinking that the civilized part of the cosmos knows what is going on here and doesn't completely blame us for it.
But think about how a mass execution of our own people will affect the universal opinion of us.... because they'd know we could have solved it another way....

[TigaHawk]

We are only an enviromental burden to this planet because of our methods.

Look at how crops are currently grown on a large scale. Look how the soil needs to be completely changed if you wish to grow the same crops in it for 3 years, or how you must rotate crops in fields to sustain it otherwise.

The way we're doing things is wrong.

We took efficiency and automation way, way way too far.



Imagine an entire field, but with 3-4 different crops all sharing the same field. These plants compliment eachother, what nutrients one takes from the soil another puts back.

Living in unity, so to speak.

This has never been done on a large scale, the ammount of work required to maintain it is far greater than that of a "normal" field of crops. Thats where hte issue lies.


Time has somehow turned into money. Noone wants to spend time on things they feel unnecessary. Doing more to a field of crops other than ploughing, planting, and watering occasionaly is considerd a great loss of time and money, hense the heavy use of chemicals to try and fill the gap.



now this is just one element of our lives - food.

The entire system..... allmots everythign we know is wrong. ITs built around saving money/time, as little human labor as possible, as machines are good "free" slaves.


We have to change how we live and think entirely if we wish to continue living on this planet.

This planet isnt just a rock that we can stick a flag in and claim ours, and do what we wish.... this planet is a living being. At the moment we're turning into a plague. Its only so long untill the planet is put into a spot. The spot will be "Us or Her". She will preserve her own life, because there are so many other lives that depend on her as well, we're but a spec in comparison.



So no. We dont need to depopulate. We need to change.

Once we've changed we can head to the stars, and expand our existance to other plants. But only once we learn how to live in harmony with our own.

If we dont, well its evolution, we failed to evolve to survive.

Taking a glance at humanity right now - id feel alot happier knowing this planet would be without us, and able to repair and carry on without our opression, selfishness and destruction.



Tho i welcome all whom refuze to believe there is any other way to continue other than to depopulate....... to do us all a favor and start with themselves? Rather than saying "We need to do this!" and expecting everyone but you to do it....... thanks!

[Mad Hatter]

Posted by Ellisa (here)
Some Pacific islanders are already having to move villages to higher ground,

Do hope you are not basing that on the tripe we've been told about Tuvalu... check out the local fishing practices of reef fishing with dynamite as an explanation as to why the island is shifting...dig deep enough and you'll find a picture of a tree the green nazis removed because it showed the inconvenient truth about sea levels dropping and not rising...

Posted by Ellisa (here)
The causes for their hunger are many, crops may fail, rain hasn't fallen, there are floods, and they are poor as all their family has always been- and of course there is often unrest if not actual war.

Crop failure due to lack of rain is easily fixed by on the ground available now technology. Already in use by many of the worlds military for nefarious purposes so yet again this is a case of political will.

This has been going probably since way before TV first started when I saw my first picture of a staving african child deliberately shown at dinner time. I was furious with the adults for letting this happen only to sadly learn over time that there where mountains of butter and lakes of wine going to waste in Europe all down to politics which is still going on today some 50+ years later. Make no mistake this is not about a lack of resource this is all about control. Self control you might say.

Posted by Ellisa (here)
Assuming that there are enough resources to ensure no one is going hungry anywhere is obviously over-optomistic.

If by that you mean changing the political will is an overly optimistic proposition then I'd have to agree with you but that is a sad reflection on the state of political systems and nothing to do with lack of resources.

Posted by Ellisa (here)
Assuming we can cover the world with a greater density humanity and maintain our own living standards while the inhabitants of the poorer countries catch us up is also unrealistic.

Once again assume makes an ASS out of U and ME. By simply taking a look at the rubbish that is the 'Closing the gap' policy in Aus we have a fine example of waste and mismanagement. Last time I did the numbers the total taxpayers money aimed at fixing the problems in that sector turned out to be enough to give each and every Aboriginal $100,000 a year and yet look at what turns up on the ground in real help after it's been washed through the 'do goody' welfare sector. Seems to be doing nothing more than keeping a lot of bleeding heart arses comfortable.

In order to address the real issue, if you haven't already done so, is to start by reading the constitution (Quick & Garran notated preferably) and then you will now that Aus inc. is one of the most corrupt corporations on the planet only pipped at the post by the big tri-partite Vatican City, City of London and Washington DC.

I would humbly suggest that we concentrate on fixing the real problem and not be waylaid trying to fix symptoms.

On a bad day I'd happily be up for giving the entire political class and three quarters of academia a dose of led poisoning but thats just me and I do know there has to be a better way. If you figure it out let me know and I'll be by your side helping to implement it.

[araucaria]

This has been an extremely nuts-and-bolts thread. I would just like to factor in a few thoughts based on other things one reads on Avalon. Things like:


* Enlightened beings have been queuing up to earn a place on this planet at this time. – If so, then unsurprisingly, we have reached Standing room only.


* Many people, we are told, have negative karma to work off. – if so, billions of unfortunates seem to be doing just that, with a vengeance.


* The notion of a critical mass of positive energy beings is often bandied about. Jay Weidner I think it was says the tipping point is at ten billion. – If so, we have still a little way to go.


In other words, like many other factors, the population explosion is fast heading towards a crisis point. And like those other factors, it can be viewed positively instead of negatively

[Magnus]

Posted by mexrph (here)
There are no "compassionate means" to depopulate the earth. You need to inform yourself of a sinister agenda called AGENDA 21. It is being pushed by very sinister people who are working for a new dark ages in which you are intended to be a serf (if they let you live) and they intend to be the feudal lords.

Don't cheat yourself by thinking that people on this thread are not aware of "agenda 21". Most of us are very well informed about the state of this planets current affairs. No offense intended.

[Magnus]

Posted by pyriel (here)
Sorry to break it to you but earth CAN sustain alot more people then what's on the planet now.. There is so much farm land out there. You can even grow food in your own home.. It's not hard so learn to do it.. Depopulation is just the TPTB's way of say "OH ****, we cant control so many people!!!! what the hell do we do!!!! KIll half the people on earth, hurry hurry!!!" They have nothing special or worthwhile to say so move on.

Growing food in your backyard is a very limited method, only available to an exceedingly small part of the population.

[Magnus]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
No you may not suggest that. People want to percieve themselves as equal. so you can't suggest that they are more intelligent people in the world when its obvious its true regardless of how it comes about.

But I happen to agree with you, 'higher' knowledge. People are on a spiritual quest to find their higher selves and, I for the life of me, do not understand why they think something that is unlimited wouldn't have an accompanying intellgience . Why bother seeking out one's higher self if its going to be as dumb as the lower mind.

Posted by Magnus (here)

Posted by Mad Hatter (here)

Posted by joedjemal (here)
It's the main reason I decided not to have kids.

Raises another oft overlooked angle in this deabte. That being what happens, as in this case, when the more intelligent amongst us choose this path. Will that not just lower the average IQ of the remaining gene pool..?

Quote from http://abagond.wordpress.com:
"If genes were everything and if IQ were truly an all-encompassing test of intelligence, low IQ people would not be having high IQ grandchildren."

May i suggest, that the level of intelligence, at least to some degree, is uniqe to each specific soul, consequently brought into this world at incarnation level as a result of accumulated wisdom and experiences through the journey of individually varying extent of incarnations, translating into intelligence and iq within the present state of existence?

Thanks, and amen to to your approach! A washboard is still a washboard until you use it for something else!

[dan i el]

“The lowest strata are reproducing too fast. Therefore… they must not have too easy access to relief or hospital treatment lest the removal of the last check on natural selection should make it too easy for children to be produced or to survive; long unemployment should be a ground for sterilisation.”

- Julian Huxley

[Magnus]

Posted by TigaHawk (here)
We are only an enviromental burden to this planet because of our methods.

Look at how crops are currently grown on a large scale. Look how the soil needs to be completely changed if you wish to grow the same crops in it for 3 years, or how you must rotate crops in fields to sustain it otherwise.

The way we're doing things is wrong.

We took efficiency and automation way, way way too far.



Imagine an entire field, but with 3-4 different crops all sharing the same field. These plants compliment eachother, what nutrients one takes from the soil another puts back.

Living in unity, so to speak.

This has never been done on a large scale, the ammount of work required to maintain it is far greater than that of a "normal" field of crops. Thats where hte issue lies.


Time has somehow turned into money. Noone wants to spend time on things they feel unnecessary. Doing more to a field of crops other than ploughing, planting, and watering occasionaly is considerd a great loss of time and money, hense the heavy use of chemicals to try and fill the gap.



now this is just one element of our lives - food.

The entire system..... allmots everythign we know is wrong. ITs built around saving money/time, as little human labor as possible, as machines are good "free" slaves.


We have to change how we live and think entirely if we wish to continue living on this planet.

This planet isnt just a rock that we can stick a flag in and claim ours, and do what we wish.... this planet is a living being. At the moment we're turning into a plague. Its only so long untill the planet is put into a spot. The spot will be "Us or Her". She will preserve her own life, because there are so many other lives that depend on her as well, we're but a spec in comparison.



So no. We dont need to depopulate. We need to change.

Once we've changed we can head to the stars, and expand our existance to other plants. But only once we learn how to live in harmony with our own.

If we dont, well its evolution, we failed to evolve to survive.

Taking a glance at humanity right now - id feel alot happier knowing this planet would be without us, and able to repair and carry on without our opression, selfishness and destruction.



Tho i welcome all whom refuze to believe there is any other way to continue other than to depopulate....... to do us all a favor and start with themselves? Rather than saying "We need to do this!" and expecting everyone but you to do it....... thanks!

I would love to agree with your post if it didn't contain these two following quotes:

"So no. We dont need to depopulate. We need to change."

and

"Tho i welcome all whom refuze to believe there is any other way to continue other than to depopulate....... to do us all a favor and start with themselves? Rather than saying "We need to do this!" and expecting everyone but you to do it....... thanks!"

In my opinion we need to change our ways, and compassionately depopulate!

[blufire]

pyriel said:

Sorry to break it to you but earth CAN sustain alot more people then what's on the planet now.. There is so much farm land out there. You can even grow food in your own home.. It's not hard so learn to do it..

I have grown, preserved and homesteaded all my life and even farmed 75 acres organically . . . so I guess you could say I know what it takes to grow your own food. For me (a highly experienced organic grower) to grow ALL the food for a family of five with sustainable methods takes a minimum of 15 acres . . . and this is ONLY FOOD for my family and food for my animals and this is also with highly intensive multiple planting throughout the year. AND this is with hired help and working my two daughters to the point they almost rebelled (you can ask one she is on this forum, PixieDust)

As far as having more farmland . . this is false . . . read my earlier post on this thread.

Do you grow all your food pyriel or are you only regurgitating what you have heard? Show me your research or websites that quantify your statement. How do people who live in the deserts or extremely cold regions grow all their own food? What about all the older people? Are you going to expect all the 60, 70, 80, and 90 year olds to grow their own food OR how about you chip in? Growing a garden is hard, back breaking work and either you love it (I do) or you hate it (which most do)

Show me your operation in how you can produce ALL your food in your yard . . . . I’m sorry but this nonsense makes me so frustrated and upset.


Maia Gabrial said:

There is NO reason for depopulation. What needs to die is the mismanagement of our world.

WE are the ones mismanaging our world. What are YOU doing to change the way YOU live and being an example for others or are you just helping to perpetuate the problem . . . as I am and everyone else . . .even on this forum. Are you out there with pyriel plowing up your yard and planting wheat and tomatoes or if I came to your house what would I find in your cupboards and refrigerator? Name me ONE person on this forum who is living the life that would set an example for a new paradigm . . . ONE!! I am working like hell to get there but I swear sometimes I ask myself why even try!!

Araucaria said:

…..in other words, like many other factors, the population explosion is fast heading towards a crisis point. And like those other factors, it can be viewed positively instead of negatively

We are in crisis mode NOW! This is why we are growing genetically mutated food and feeding “pink slime meat” to kids. There is not enough food NOW and no way stop the madness. The dam is not only full of holes . . .the entire foundation is crumbling.

So yes the population explosion is negative because it has pushed us to a crisis point and millions will die and ARE dying NOW.

And yes the population explosive is positive because it has driven us into a crisis point and billions will die . . . . . perhaps then, those who are left, can rebuild using a sustainable paradigm and base our global economy on perpetuating our natural resources and “free energy” and to the benefit of ALL the living beings on this planet including Mother Earth.