Organizing ideas, fixed ideas, intellectual honesty, and how the mind really works

[Celine]

Posted by Fredkc (here)
PS: * Anyone who has long hair and a bush hat cannot be trusted

Fair enough...

i know another long haired guy, in a hat who works here.

ok guys is this a trend? any others out there?

[illuminate]

well... I'm a long-haired girl who LOVES her fedora... does that count?

[blue777]

Posted by illuminate (here)
well... I'm a long-haired girl who LOVES her fedora... does that count?

This is intellectual honesty
Fact......the battle is between Sanity and Insanity......just look at what is going on around the World.
Fact The battle is between altruism , compassion and love against pride vanity , ego, malevolence ,hate , greed arrogance conceit etc...
Fact ..the battle is to conquer our own fear and ego...
Fact a higher level of consciousness exists, and it is guiding our thoughts fact.....
I think you will find the above as being both truth and reality..fact
There are a 100 billion galaxies,hundred of millions of stars, fact, to be the only planet where life has evolved , would be a person who thinks this , suffers from Pride , vanity and ignorance...darkness
It is the union of light and sound reason and intuition the union of opposities, many are just using reason..the Kerry factor is missing
blue

[sygh]

[QUOTE=tone3jaguar;38366]The best cure for the tunnel vision created by extreme circumstances, which is what allows irrational information to be taken at face value, is a digital fast. We all know about fasting when it concerns food. However, my personal opinion is that one of the healthiest things you can do to gain a sharper perspective on things is to detach from the digital world for a few days.

I just did that because I had to wait for my hardware to get here to fix my computer. I was once again amazed at how much easier it is to see information with clear logic having only detached from reading on the net for a couple of days.

Has anyone asked themselves why so much disinformation was seeded into the internet through trusted sources? Forget the people, cooperations, circumstances, future impacts and all of that emotion evoking stuff for a moment. Lets just look at this from the lowest common denominator. The lowest common denominator meaning that you erase the story and just look at the logistics of what the information did and how it did it.

In order to do this, lets reverse engineer the whole deal. Lets start with where we are right now and work our selves backwards. However, we are going to move backwards in the past to before the information was even propagated before we are done looking at this thing....

Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha... And do you know what? I followed you, read the whole thing. I love it. And so, in tribute, I give back to you the following:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=TUee1...eature=related
cheers!

Please know, I appreciate what you have said and believe it has merit. With that, I am off to see the Ocean.

[CuppaJoe]

Posted by blue777 (here)
This is intellectual honesty
Fact......the battle is between Sanity and Insanity......just look at what is going on around the World.
Fact The battle is between altruism , compassion and love against pride vanity , ego, malevolence ,hate , greed arrogance conceit etc...
Fact ..the battle is to conquer our own fear and ego...
Fact a higher level of consciousness exists, and it is guiding our thoughts fact.....
I think you will find the above as being both truth and reality..fact
There are a 100 billion galaxies,hundred of millions of stars, fact, to be the only planet where life has evolved , would be a person who thinks this , suffers from Pride , vanity and ignorance...darkness
It is the union of light and sound reason and intuition the union of opposities, many are just using reason..the Kerry factor is missing
blue

Blue. Your head is spinning. Smoke is coming out of your ears.

Just stop for a second. Breathe.

Okay. I get the feeling you are in the stage when everything seems very big.
You realize how many people are on the planet. All those people, all those choices, all those beliefs, and all the bad crap that's ever happened ever in history seems REALLY friggin bad.
You see that there is a fundamental struggle between "right" and "wrong" that takes place in the heart of every single person.
You see that our origins are not entirely of this world.
You see that we have allowed our very own Ego, born in the moment we were but of entirely our own creation, to rule us.
You see that knowing each other is really only about knowing ourselves.
You see that a lot of us are lost children.

That's good, blue. You've come very far and it's important to have a strong sense of your beliefs. But don't slip into the despair that makes everything seem so urgent and so badly broken. We are not broken. We are capable of making this change for ourselves. We are capable of remembering where we come from.

It starts with you. You will find it completely pointless trying to change other people. Ask any random member of this forum how much fun it is trying to explain to most everyone that money actually has no value and that paying taxes is completely optional. You'll get the same glazed eyes and tight-lipped "Mmmm-hmmm" we all get. You cannot force people to believe. You can try, we all have to try, but if there is something going on in your life that you do not agree with, first ask yourself why.

Why does this bother me so bad? Because someone else isn't seeing the big picture and that's the main problem and the whole point is to ascend out of this mess and we've f***ed it all up so badly and crop circles are alien messages warning of impending disaster and... Okay. All that is outside you. What do you feel? Fear? Loneliness? Frustration? Exhaustion? So you want to grab everyone and shake them and force them to wake up?

You can't, dude. It's not up to you. Get off my back cuz this here is MY ride too, monkey man. If there's some Ego popping up that you don't like or a belief running rampant on this forum that rubs you the wrong way... tough. The best way you can make yourself heard and not come off like a jerk is to state what you believe right now. There is NO WRONG belief. Every belief every person has is PERFECT for that person right now. You don't like that I believe every word in the Bible literally, even though you have excellent reasons why and I'm a moron for thinking it's ALL true and how could Jesus possibly have raised up from the dead anyway...??

Because that's my belief, that's why. I am on a journey just like you are. I am at this specific stage of learning and remembering just like you are. Who are you to tell me I'm wrong?

Share your beliefs, blue, that's how information moves. I may find something of yours that rings true for me and then my whole foundation of life changes and I think you're a god. But if you try to shove it down my throat or point at parts of myself and say, "WRONG" then I promise I will aim a kick squarely at your hindquarters and we'll never know what we might have learned from each other.

You are not allowing other people to do what they feel they need to do. At the same time, if you feel you need to be a perpetual thorn in the side of nearly every person you aim a response to, then more power to ya brother for really stretching the tolerance of all these good souls on this here forum. Heaven knows we aren't stretched enough!

What I'm saying is have a little tolerance yourself. Know what you know, keep expanding what you know, and never stop trying to better your world. But have some patience for the rest of us. We'll get there.

Keep fighting the good fight, blue. You bring up good ideas and I know 100% you are trying to connect with people. But you will find them more apt to take you seriously and actually think about what you say if you don't come off like a frantic, self-righteous little buzz kill here.

Alright, who's wants to be whipped next??

Love to you, brother.

CuppaJoe

Note: I certainly do not literally believe every word in the Bible. It was an example of a belief that, if I so chose, I am entitled to have.

[blue777]

[QUOTE=CuppaJoe;38450]Blue.

Share your beliefs, blue, that's how information moves. I may find something of yours that rings true for me and then my whole foundation of life changes and I think you're a god.

What I'm saying is have a little tolerance yourself. Know what you know, keep expanding what you know, and never stop trying to better your world. But have some patience for the rest of us. We'll get there.

Keep fighting the good fight, blue. You bring up good ideas and I know 100% you are trying to connect with people. But you will find them more apt to take you seriously and actually think about what you say
Love to you, brother.


For a person who just came onto the forum , you have a big North and South Dude,
I think you are not seeing the big picture, and that is: REALITY ,LOVE , TRUTH and REASON rule in my world This is intellectual honesty......if you cannot see that , you must live in a world of unreality , hate, , falsehood disordered reason
Fact......the battle is between Sanity and Insanity......just look at what is going on around the World.
Fact The battle is between altruism , compassion and love against pride vanity , ego, malevolence ,hate , greed arrogance conceit etc...
Fact ..the battle is to conquer our own fear and ego...
Fact a higher level of consciousness exists, and it is guiding our thoughts fact.....
I think you will find the above as being both truth and reality..fact
There are a 100 billion galaxies,hundred of millions of stars, fact, to be the only planet where life has evolved , would be a person who thinks this , suffers from Pride , vanity and ignorance...darkness
It is the union of light and sound reason and intuition the union of opposities, many are just using reason..the Kerry factor is missing
love to you sister
blue

[Beth]

Dude, you just keep posting the same thing over and over again. It's getting quite old.

[blue777]

Posted by yaya551 (here)
Dude, you just keep posting the same thing over and over again. It's getting quite old.

whats all this dude stuff....maybe some of it might go in.... reality love, truth and reason...there ,simple anything else is a load of Boll.......cks
lol
blue

[Etherios]

Posted by Tuza (here)
.....

I realy feel the same... you and others talk about how human treat animals. You forget that the crimes humans have commited to other humans are far far worse. A while back i read somewhere that the population of Africa dropped by a few hundred millions... When we all know that they make alot of kids. There are global genocides in many many places in the planet. We dont need god to wipe us out we are doing a fine job our selves.... (We still have slavery in the "Civilized" west).

BUT!!!!!!! i want to to think again. You cant blame humanity for the actions of a minority. Just because there is a mass murderer in your street it doesnt mean you live in murderers land. There are beings that want to be called "humans" that are seeing the rest of humanity as a comodity... we are not equals anymore they think we are not humans or at least we dont deserve to live. You cant give blame to the ppl that do atrocities because they were raised in a terrible enviroment and also blame the ppl that planed those atrocities. I am not a sage and in my 32 years i havent spend much time on self improvement or enlightenment ... but i want to believe that human beings are neither good or bad. We are born with animal insticts and then raised/trained/brainwashed to be what we are now.

We are capable of terrible terrible things but also such love and beauty ... that is what humans are. We that have the time and the ability to talk here and debate on this are sooo privileged we are soo lucky compared to others. You cant blame humanity for the bad things. Its our fault that we stopped thinking for our selves, its our fault that we stopped searching for the truth, its our fault that we learned to be slaves and hide behind this .... its not our fault that humanity is at this terrible state. We have to save our selves, we have to wake up... i dont think we can but its us that have to be saved first.

[kcw_one]

Whoa. This thread has gotten away from us a little. I think I see what blue is driving at (repeatedly). But what is missing in the formula there is this slippery notion of truth. Everyone in here is searching for and wanting to share their own version of the truth. After all, what an individual sees as the truth is a product of their perspective, nothing more. Truth is a statement we make about what we observe or experience. As such, truth is subjective. On the other hand, phenomena that is observed objectively is fact. Truth is as unique as the individual, yet we sometimes share a particular truth if our beliefs, experiences and observations match up.

There is a place for this higher truth stuff, just as there is a place for rational thought and reason. I think that most of us aim to strike a balance between the two. Just know that most of us tend to discount or reject arguments that are based solely on someone else's subjective version of the truth with no solid fact or compelling ideas to support it.

[Wood]

I agree with blue and others (even though I do not agree with the style) in that there is more to understand the reality than just intellect. I suspect intellect is part of the trap but then I need to be 100% sure (somehow) about the insights and intuitions I am getting before commiting to believe them as the truth. Intellect, logic, rationalism, XVIII world views are comfortable but they seem to leak when pushed too far: from Gödel proof of incompleteness of formal systems to quantum mechanics (not that I know much about that) or the way we destroy the nature in the name of progress. Intellect alone gives us just a piece of the puzzle IMO but we do not have the tools (or the confidence) yet to reason properly based on intuition alone.

[blue777]

Posted by kcw_one (here)
Whoa. This thread has gotten away from us a little. I think I see what blue is driving at (repeatedly). But what is missing in the formula there is this slippery notion of truth. Everyone in here is searching for and wanting to share their own version of the truth. After all, what an individual sees as the truth is a product of their perspective, nothing more. Truth is a statement we make about what we observe or experience. As such, truth is subjective. On the other hand, phenomena that is observed objectively is fact. Truth is as unique as the individual, yet we sometimes share a particular truth if our beliefs, experiences and observations match up.

There is a place for this higher truth stuff, just as there is a place for rational thought and reason. I think that most of us aim to strike a balance between the two. Just know that most of us tend to discount or reject arguments that are based solely on someone else's subjective version of the truth with no solid fact or compelling ideas to support it.

Thank you kcw one...
There is a place for this higher truth stuff, just as there is a place for rational thought and reason. I think that most of us aim to strike a balance between the two. Just know that most of us tend to discount or reject arguments that are based solely on someone else's subjective version of the truth with no solid fact or compelling ideas to support it
the problem as you point out the truth is very subjective depending on our experiences, education , family teaching and so forth....therefore if we start with Truth , then work on the others , if I am wrong I will apologise to all.....
Truth in my mind has to to come from thought, sound, if it positive sound then it is truth, if it is negative sound it is a falsehood....therefore you always need REALITY TO PROVE A TRUTH.......if you see it then you can say it is a truth......however FEAR and the imagination can also provide a pseudo truth ..which is very real to that person, and it is hard to tell them it was a falsehood an unreality.

I will give you an example of this ,one which I experienced.....I was going to a party and had to drive through a real dark wood for miles..then all of a sudden a white horse was running next to the car , then faster infront of the car then it disappeared....I was driving pretty quick, therefore through my FEAR and Imagination I made it up and it looked very real , however it was not...therefore fear and the imagination creates falsehoods which are real to people.

[Wood]

I'll expand a bit on my previous post.
I think we use intuition all the time, and then the intellect as a tool to check the validity of our insights. This tool might be flawed in that it limits what we can accept as true. We rely on the intellect even when we know about theoretical (Gödel) and practical (our brain limits) issues of logic.
I have spent some time with artificial intelligence. From that point of view, insights/intuition are 'heuristics', 'shortcuts' given by the designer of the system as methods to help the purely deductive machine. They point to certain paths of reasoning as 'promising' and completely discard others as 'nonsense'. These heuristics are many times the key to make a problem solvable in practice. Otherwise it would take too long to simply inspect all the possible lines of thought. We have that implemented as, for example, the focus of attention. When a line of thought is taking too long we usually get bored of it and switch to other things.
I think the traditional view in the AI field is that these insights come from other parts of our brain that do not work in the serial way needed for the intellect. These parts are unconscious because we are not able to peek into their state intellectually, but nonetheless they work in the background and they learn. Now, since I was drawn into spiritual subjects, I suspect there is more to it than just 'unconscious parts of the brain'.

[Celine]

Blue...

The Kerry factor???

you seem to be creating your own world...

hope you are happy there

[blue777]

Posted by celine (here)
Blue...

The Kerry factor???

you seem to be creating your own world...

hope you are happy there

Thank you celine.....by the Kerry factor I meant intuition.......however she seems to be compromised now.....therefore we have to analyse REALITY ourselves.
Our reality is based on our senses, however there could be other realities linked to sound harmonics , frequencies
lol

[Celine]

if you believe she is compromised then i see no logic using her as an example.

[blue777]

Posted by celine (here)
if you believe she is compromised then i see no logic using her as an example.

well its a bit like Ebony and Ivory,fish and chips , ham and eggs head and tails etc...Kerry and Bill,,you know duelism
lol

[Celine]

You really believe that is the duality to focus on?

You do not see that...PA/Camelot ...is the duality?

Both Bill and Kerry knows this is not about them..its about PA/Cam ..


i have tried to follow your lead...feel what you are saying..

there is something..you are not saying..

i want to hear it...please

[blue777]

Posted by celine (here)
You really believe that is the duality to focus on?

You do not see that...PA/Camelot ...is the duality?

Both Bill and Kerry knows this is not about them..its about PA/Cam ..


i have tried to follow your lead...feel what you are saying..

there is something..you are not saying..

i want to hear it...please

O.K...Everything works in duelistic way..REASON and INTUITION..I.E Bill AND Kerry, although both will also have intuition and reason as well.....however , it is the synthesis of the 2, which gives us a higher level of Consciousness....eventually reaching a crystalline thought or crystal clear thought
lots of love
blue

[HORIZONS]

Posted by blue777 (here)
O.K...Everything works in duelistic way..REASON and INTUITION..I.E Bill AND Kerry, although both will also have intuition and reason as well.....however , it is the synthesis of the 2, which gives us a higher level of Consciousness....eventually reaching a crystalline thought or crystal clear thought
lots of love
blue

"The darkness and the light are alike unto thee."