The unraveling of a great Secret

[Sebastion]

This thread has in many ways defied a lot deities (ideas) across this forum as evidenced by the lack of any wide spread interest in posting to it. I knew that it was blasphemous for me, not only to say that the Heart of One "IS", but that I had merged with that great Love as well. After all the great Guru Iknowitall-ananda never mentioned it, so it cannot be.

Therefore there is no such thing as the great Heart, sorry pal, you are really out to lunch! Be that as it may as I don't ask anyone to believe what has been said but yet, to consider it.

Reasoning it out, I don't think that the "ONE" could/would create anything that is outside of ITS nature. IT also has no need to prove ITSELF. All the clues can be found in nature in simple understandings. For example: What is the first organ that is formed in an embryo? The heart. Apart from pumping blood, what properties are assigned to the heart? Love.

Do you not see something symbolic here? Is that not symbolic enough?

It is interesting to note as well that it's the hearts pumping of blood that gives/allows the brain and body life. If that is true with physical bodies, please tell me how it could not be true for the greater "body" of the ONE, ITSELF?

I would tell you that it is the great Heart of the One, Love Absolute, that gives rise to the Mind of the One and thus all created things as ideas and ideas in form.

Please forgive me now as I see that I have blasphemed yet again....

[conk]

Posted by Sebastion (here)
Looking through your own eyes from an energetic perspective, one may note that the most important "tool" at your command is your own attention. Your attention is under your control. The little trick here is to be aware of where your attention is being focused and remaining in that awareness of where your attention is focused can sometimes be easier said then done!

Your attention is your point of power. That's why everything outside of you is screaming for your attention. Never underestimate how powerful your attention can be-take a look, become aware of it and become the master of your own point of power.

Remember, wherever your head goes, your butt is bound to follow! Meditation/contemplation periods go along way towards allowing/assisting you to begin to deliberately focus and gather your own energy in a powerful, peaceful and loving way.

In Dr. Joe Dispenza's book, Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself, he states, "The quantum field responds not to what we want; but to what we are being".

Re: The heart and it's forming first in the developmental stages. It forms before the brain and it has neurons. The heart is the brain of the soul?

[9eagle9]

That is a good point Conk and its seldom surface conscious things that make our being but more aptly expressed as one's vibrational point.

Core Essence.

That is what allows me to ponder what some might view as negative thoughts without effecting my vibration.

[Delight]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
We are swayed to engage ourselves in beliefs and philsophies that limit us and don't bring forward where our natural abilities and 'where our joy' is. We get burdened by energy loss. By not knowing our self authority. SELF, I mean that in the highest sense of the word. .........

I have some unique things about myself that I couldn't develop because of this 'service to others' schism and having to tip toe around everyone's feelings. Finallly I just realized this doesn't have anything to do with other people; it has to do with me.........

Being unique is stressed everywhere but we still have this social conditioning it is wrong to be outside the box. Someone is always ready to explain your uniqueness back into a box, because one is not so readily avaliable to energy theive from. ESPECIALLY in the realms of the spiritual where everyone has to be a luv-n-lighter to be 'special' . I fail to see the uniquness in that particular club....lol.Or any authentic expression in it. We all have love, we all have light. Why is this special? Because in spite of all our love and light words we are reavealing a lack where no lack is present. Limiting ourselves......

There's a million boot camps for shamans here in my area, that show people what shaman do. Shake rattles, spit, beat drums.
They could save themselves a ton of money by simply attempting to find their shamanic self, which is a person who is freeing themselves of social and religious programming. Most of all freeing themselves of obligations and expectations of themselves and others. In that vane you have a dozen properly programmed shamans all robotically spitting Florida water and uploading cougars in their root chakra , and waiting for their 'guides' (which are legion) to tell them what to do,when the authentically shamanaically expressed aren't limiting themselves in such a fashion, realizing that cougar in the root is going to eventually turn on the rabbit in the heart, and just know what to do regardles if a bottle of cheap cologne isn't handy. The drum is powerful but its not our power.

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
We all have something that we are and people become so focused on something other than what they are that they entirely miss the point.

The best that can be said of Christianity in regards to having any sort of estoeria to regard scriptural stories as metaphors instead of literal. but most of them are just adapted from other traditions. An example of Christian 'esoteria ' is Catholic magick but its still adopted from earlier traditions. Catholics didn't invent incense , incensors, communion, baptism, or excorcism. those are esoteric practices that were adapted from other traditions and summarily and eventually corrupted by the Church to be rendedered nearly useless.

Sebastion, 9eagle9 and all,
One of the ways that I appreciate the back and forth of these conversations is to see something that I can use as a mirror often showing synchronicity of what my larger SELF wants me to see.

I doubt that authentic usefulness for me is found in the smooth agreement so I often tend to see contrast.

Though I never was a true believer, I have wanted to find a home and family to "be in". I have always been more open to the woowoo than the conventional and gravitate to the part of the collective that investigates there. My personal experience has been that I was always on the fringe of the fringe (hehe).

Yes, I have slogged through the mud of all kinds of experience. Luckily I have never hurt myself. Lately I am much more self sufficient and have much less drama.

No group is outside a box. I have been involved in the past with a group that uses medicine ceremony under the guidance of shamen who would be brought with their medicine from out of the country. The groups meet and people are together using the entheogen.

The last time I participated, I was so out of the box of what was expected that I was carried out. In the situation, rather than purging, I was singing and in an ecstatic state which was not going with the program at all.

Though people were making noise with vomiting, singing was not appropriate.

I couldn't really "help myself" and I couldn't physically move as my body seemed to be disconnected. People came to stop me and I recall being asked to get up and go outside. I recall being unable to move. Then I fell deep inside myself like going into a void with no recall. Apparently I was protesting the situation asking to be left alone with what I was experiencing. I reacted to being touched by "spitting" and saying the people were infected by ghouls (it was on Halloween by the way so must have had some symbolic association).

I was told it took 4 people to carry me out, not because I was fighting (spitting was all I could do) but because I had become that heavy and I am 125 pounds.

The complete inappropriateness of that for me and me for that scene cured me of wanting to participate in "rituals". After I digested it all, I realized that my intention for me is to access the states these "medicines" catalyze on my own and with conscious connection to all of myself as I am being altered.

I know I have rough edges of beingness that are being smoothed. That does not bother me at all exceppt when I find "society" to trigger me. Then it is painful. However, since I embrace that I choose to use the mirror, I always move forward in my relentless intention to be fully and wholey my self with Self.

The hall of mirrors is my fun house really. As with everything, who I am is calling forth what I see just so I may use it for what I will. This I recognize as I surrender to my larger Self as the incorruptible Divine blueprint that is my friend, 100% on my side and in no need of being verified by people and places and stuff of any kind. That is my power. I am very powerful for my intents and purposes. That is such a relief now.

My developing trust in who I am (in no way contradicted by appearances and petty 3D behaviors) takes the cuss off everything.

[9eagle9]

After you yak up most of your gurk those rituals don't do the same thing or have the same effect. People who have worked on cleaning up their inner landscape and then attended that sort of ritual described much of what you did and the same reaction. At the most it was a somewhat lowkey event but not the fraught purging parties that have been described.

There is a time when one would think now that you've purged all the lies and dieties you've laid claim to now its a time to explore what is in alighnment with one's self, which also reminds me of what you have described.

The Healing Trap is a viscious paradigm where the healer is not a healer unless something is wrong with someone. If nothing is wrong what would the Healer do. A healer has to find something wrong in order to heal you.

I've never not once ever had an estoeric healer ever express to me anything about my own alignment. The ones I ultimately ended up benefiting from were the ones who said "its what you think is wrong with you, not what is actually wrong with you."

Conversely what we think is right about ourselves can be as daunting.

On the other end of the stick the highest levels a healer can achieve is "do nothing".

[jorr lundstrom]

Many yers ago living with a schaman from time to time, when I
described my problems to him, he used to look at me and say:
Are you stupid or something, why do you cling to ideas of
problems you actually dont have? LOL Well having programmed
myself with a lot of BS probaly made me feel being somebody.
Any BS seemed better than nothing, before experiencing that
nothing is more that enough. LOL





All is well


Jorr 2.0

[Sebastion]

Hi Conk:

The heart is the brain of the soul? An interesting question, indeed. Kinda tough to answer it in that vein. It's much closer to the truth to say that Love Absolute is the heart of the soul. It is the "smaller" Love which can be used to seek the "greater" Love of the One Heart. In that case, the greater Love will lead you every step of the way! IT will lead you and the "way" will be made known to you, step by step and I would bet that it would be in your own unique way. I will add more to this in an additional post, so bear with me!

Posted by conk (here)

Posted by Sebastion (here)
Looking through your own eyes from an energetic perspective, one may note that the most important "tool" at your command is your own attention. Your attention is under your control. The little trick here is to be aware of where your attention is being focused and remaining in that awareness of where your attention is focused can sometimes be easier said then done!

Your attention is your point of power. That's why everything outside of you is screaming for your attention. Never underestimate how powerful your attention can be-take a look, become aware of it and become the master of your own point of power.

Remember, wherever your head goes, your butt is bound to follow! Meditation/contemplation periods go along way towards allowing/assisting you to begin to deliberately focus and gather your own energy in a powerful, peaceful and loving way.

In Dr. Joe Dispenza's book, Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself, he states, "The quantum field responds not to what we want; but to what we are being".

Re: The heart and it's forming first in the developmental stages. It forms before the brain and it has neurons. The heart is the brain of the soul?

[Sebastion]

Hi Delight:

Your story reminds me of an Indian Medicine Wheel Ceremony that I attended a number of years ago. Mind you that at the time I had no experience with shamans period. I was tongue-in-cheek about it and thought it might be fun. There were about 50 people in the circle, all holding hands and we had been instructed by the shaman that no matter what, do not release the hand of the ones you are holding on to as it would break the circle.

There were people drumming as she went from person to person whisking things out from their aura with an eagle feather. Several people gasped and went limp to some degree as she made her way around the circle. When she got to me, I just stood there with my eyes closed, not expecting much of anything. I opened my eyes just in time to see her hand make a pushing motion towards my chest. It was at that moment I felt what seemed to be a snake wiggling inside my heart, literally. I wanted to grab my chest in the worst way but managed to hang on, not breaking the circle.

The next morning, I woke up and realized that I had never ever felt so good, physically in my entire life. I believe if memory serves, that she was a Sioux indian shaman. It was powerful stuff and made a believer out of me!

Posted by Delight (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
We are swayed to engage ourselves in beliefs and philsophies that limit us and don't bring forward where our natural abilities and 'where our joy' is. We get burdened by energy loss. By not knowing our self authority. SELF, I mean that in the highest sense of the word. .........

I have some unique things about myself that I couldn't develop because of this 'service to others' schism and having to tip toe around everyone's feelings. Finallly I just realized this doesn't have anything to do with other people; it has to do with me.........

Being unique is stressed everywhere but we still have this social conditioning it is wrong to be outside the box. Someone is always ready to explain your uniqueness back into a box, because one is not so readily avaliable to energy theive from. ESPECIALLY in the realms of the spiritual where everyone has to be a luv-n-lighter to be 'special' . I fail to see the uniquness in that particular club....lol.Or any authentic expression in it. We all have love, we all have light. Why is this special? Because in spite of all our love and light words we are reavealing a lack where no lack is present. Limiting ourselves......

There's a million boot camps for shamans here in my area, that show people what shaman do. Shake rattles, spit, beat drums.
They could save themselves a ton of money by simply attempting to find their shamanic self, which is a person who is freeing themselves of social and religious programming. Most of all freeing themselves of obligations and expectations of themselves and others. In that vane you have a dozen properly programmed shamans all robotically spitting Florida water and uploading cougars in their root chakra , and waiting for their 'guides' (which are legion) to tell them what to do,when the authentically shamanaically expressed aren't limiting themselves in such a fashion, realizing that cougar in the root is going to eventually turn on the rabbit in the heart, and just know what to do regardles if a bottle of cheap cologne isn't handy. The drum is powerful but its not our power.

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
We all have something that we are and people become so focused on something other than what they are that they entirely miss the point.

The best that can be said of Christianity in regards to having any sort of estoeria to regard scriptural stories as metaphors instead of literal. but most of them are just adapted from other traditions. An example of Christian 'esoteria ' is Catholic magick but its still adopted from earlier traditions. Catholics didn't invent incense , incensors, communion, baptism, or excorcism. those are esoteric practices that were adapted from other traditions and summarily and eventually corrupted by the Church to be rendedered nearly useless.

Sebastion, 9eagle9 and all,
One of the ways that I appreciate the back and forth of these conversations is to see something that I can use as a mirror often showing synchronicity of what my larger SELF wants me to see.

I doubt that authentic usefulness for me is found in the smooth agreement so I often tend to see contrast.

Though I never was a true believer, I have wanted to find a home and family to "be in". I have always been more open to the woowoo than the conventional and gravitate to the part of the collective that investigates there. My personal experience has been that I was always on the fringe of the fringe (hehe).

Yes, I have slogged through the mud of all kinds of experience. Luckily I have never hurt myself. Lately I am much more self sufficient and have much less drama.

No group is outside a box. I have been involved in the past with a group that uses medicine ceremony under the guidance of shamen who would be brought with their medicine from out of the country. The groups meet and people are together using the entheogen.

The last time I participated, I was so out of the box of what was expected that I was carried out. In the situation, rather than purging, I was singing and in an ecstatic state which was not going with the program at all.

Though people were making noise with vomiting, singing was not appropriate.

I couldn't really "help myself" and I couldn't physically move as my body seemed to be disconnected. People came to stop me and I recall being asked to get up and go outside. I recall being unable to move. Then I fell deep inside myself like going into a void with no recall. Apparently I was protesting the situation asking to be left alone with what I was experiencing. I reacted to being touched by "spitting" and saying the people were infected by ghouls (it was on Halloween by the way so must have had some symbolic association).

I was told it took 4 people to carry me out, not because I was fighting (spitting was all I could do) but because I had become that heavy and I am 125 pounds.

The complete inappropriateness of that for me and me for that scene cured me of wanting to participate in "rituals". After I digested it all, I realized that my intention for me is to access the states these "medicines" catalyze on my own and with conscious connection to all of myself as I am being altered.

I know I have rough edges of beingness that are being smoothed. That does not bother me at all exceppt when I find "society" to trigger me. Then it is painful. However, since I embrace that I choose to use the mirror, I always move forward in my relentless intention to be fully and wholey my self with Self.

The hall of mirrors is my fun house really. As with everything, who I am is calling forth what I see just so I may use it for what I will. This I recognize as I surrender to my larger Self as the incorruptible Divine blueprint that is my friend, 100% on my side and in no need of being verified by people and places and stuff of any kind. That is my power. I am very powerful for my intents and purposes. That is such a relief now.

My developing trust in who I am (in no way contradicted by appearances and petty 3D behaviors) takes the cuss off everything.

[9eagle9]

Oh the good old eagle feathers.

I was sitting in my car at a stop light and there was a field of horses on the other side of the road. There's this medicine man with me , so I nudge him and said look at the red horse. He looks and moment the horse raises its head looks right at the car and trots over the fence and stares right into the car.

So then the medicine dude gives me four eagle feathers and says , since you have these , you can call eagles.

So...I tried to call the eagles and I couldn't.

So I was told you're doing it for the wrong reasons. So this goes on for a year , where I am told "You CAN call eagles! Just call the eagles!!! What's are doing? JUST. CALL. THE . EAGLES!!

I can't.

YOU CAN. Call them the same way you do horses.

So I'm like Okay...uhm....eagles come here! Where are the eagles?

No eagles. But suddenly shortly after I had contact with certain people they were seeing eagles zooming all over their heads. Eagles everywhere. Eagles were coming to roost in their neighborhood. What? Some cosmic joke?

I'm sitting in a resturant one day and I call eagles. A hawk zooms down the street and strikes the window next to my table.

Oops.

I can't do this.


YES YOU CAN! JUST CALL THE EAGLES DAMMIT!

So one day long after I gave up I'm driving in my car on this long road trip. And I think to myself , you know I want to see an eagle.

So a bare minute later I come around this corner in the Xway and there's huge oil tank off the side of the road with three story high eagle emblazoned on it.

Oh ha ha very funny.

So I said NO. I want to see a real eagle!!! And not long after that I looked up through my sun roof and there was two of them flying over the car.

So I called the medicine man who gave me the feathers and he told me . Fine tune that.

So know now its I AM going to see eagles.

And then they come.

But I have to want them, I can't 'think' that I want them, I have to want to see them.

I had to give them the same consideration I give horses.

Posted by Sebastion (here)
Hi Delight:

Your story reminds me of an Indian Medicine Wheel Ceremony that I attended a number of years ago. Mind you that at the time I had no experience with shamans period. I was tongue-in-cheek about it and thought it might be fun. There were about 50 people in the circle, all holding hands and we had been instructed by the shaman that no matter what, do not release the hand of the ones you are holding on to as it would break the circle.

There were people drumming as she went from person to person whisking things out from their aura with an eagle feather. Several people gasped and went limp to some degree as she made her way around the circle. When she got to me, I just stood there with my eyes closed, not expecting much of anything. I opened my eyes just in time to see her hand make a pushing motion towards my chest. It was at that moment I felt what seemed to be a snake wiggling inside my heart, literally. I wanted to grab my chest in the worst way but managed to hang on, not breaking the circle.

The next morning, I woke up and realized that I had never ever felt so good, physically in my entire life. I believe if memory serves, that she was a Sioux indian shaman. It was powerful stuff and made a believer out of me!

Posted by Delight (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
We are swayed to engage ourselves in beliefs and philsophies that limit us and don't bring forward where our natural abilities and 'where our joy' is. We get burdened by energy loss. By not knowing our self authority. SELF, I mean that in the highest sense of the word. .........

I have some unique things about myself that I couldn't develop because of this 'service to others' schism and having to tip toe around everyone's feelings. Finallly I just realized this doesn't have anything to do with other people; it has to do with me.........

Being unique is stressed everywhere but we still have this social conditioning it is wrong to be outside the box. Someone is always ready to explain your uniqueness back into a box, because one is not so readily avaliable to energy theive from. ESPECIALLY in the realms of the spiritual where everyone has to be a luv-n-lighter to be 'special' . I fail to see the uniquness in that particular club....lol.Or any authentic expression in it. We all have love, we all have light. Why is this special? Because in spite of all our love and light words we are reavealing a lack where no lack is present. Limiting ourselves......

There's a million boot camps for shamans here in my area, that show people what shaman do. Shake rattles, spit, beat drums.
They could save themselves a ton of money by simply attempting to find their shamanic self, which is a person who is freeing themselves of social and religious programming. Most of all freeing themselves of obligations and expectations of themselves and others. In that vane you have a dozen properly programmed shamans all robotically spitting Florida water and uploading cougars in their root chakra , and waiting for their 'guides' (which are legion) to tell them what to do,when the authentically shamanaically expressed aren't limiting themselves in such a fashion, realizing that cougar in the root is going to eventually turn on the rabbit in the heart, and just know what to do regardles if a bottle of cheap cologne isn't handy. The drum is powerful but its not our power.

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
We all have something that we are and people become so focused on something other than what they are that they entirely miss the point.

The best that can be said of Christianity in regards to having any sort of estoeria to regard scriptural stories as metaphors instead of literal. but most of them are just adapted from other traditions. An example of Christian 'esoteria ' is Catholic magick but its still adopted from earlier traditions. Catholics didn't invent incense , incensors, communion, baptism, or excorcism. those are esoteric practices that were adapted from other traditions and summarily and eventually corrupted by the Church to be rendedered nearly useless.

Sebastion, 9eagle9 and all,
One of the ways that I appreciate the back and forth of these conversations is to see something that I can use as a mirror often showing synchronicity of what my larger SELF wants me to see.

I doubt that authentic usefulness for me is found in the smooth agreement so I often tend to see contrast.

Though I never was a true believer, I have wanted to find a home and family to "be in". I have always been more open to the woowoo than the conventional and gravitate to the part of the collective that investigates there. My personal experience has been that I was always on the fringe of the fringe (hehe).

Yes, I have slogged through the mud of all kinds of experience. Luckily I have never hurt myself. Lately I am much more self sufficient and have much less drama.

No group is outside a box. I have been involved in the past with a group that uses medicine ceremony under the guidance of shamen who would be brought with their medicine from out of the country. The groups meet and people are together using the entheogen.

The last time I participated, I was so out of the box of what was expected that I was carried out. In the situation, rather than purging, I was singing and in an ecstatic state which was not going with the program at all.

Though people were making noise with vomiting, singing was not appropriate.

I couldn't really "help myself" and I couldn't physically move as my body seemed to be disconnected. People came to stop me and I recall being asked to get up and go outside. I recall being unable to move. Then I fell deep inside myself like going into a void with no recall. Apparently I was protesting the situation asking to be left alone with what I was experiencing. I reacted to being touched by "spitting" and saying the people were infected by ghouls (it was on Halloween by the way so must have had some symbolic association).

I was told it took 4 people to carry me out, not because I was fighting (spitting was all I could do) but because I had become that heavy and I am 125 pounds.

The complete inappropriateness of that for me and me for that scene cured me of wanting to participate in "rituals". After I digested it all, I realized that my intention for me is to access the states these "medicines" catalyze on my own and with conscious connection to all of myself as I am being altered.

I know I have rough edges of beingness that are being smoothed. That does not bother me at all exceppt when I find "society" to trigger me. Then it is painful. However, since I embrace that I choose to use the mirror, I always move forward in my relentless intention to be fully and wholey my self with Self.

The hall of mirrors is my fun house really. As with everything, who I am is calling forth what I see just so I may use it for what I will. This I recognize as I surrender to my larger Self as the incorruptible Divine blueprint that is my friend, 100% on my side and in no need of being verified by people and places and stuff of any kind. That is my power. I am very powerful for my intents and purposes. That is such a relief now.

My developing trust in who I am (in no way contradicted by appearances and petty 3D behaviors) takes the cuss off everything.

[Sebastion]

Very cool story 9eagle9...thank you

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
Oh the good old eagle feathers.

I was sitting in my car at a stop light and there was a field of horses on the other side of the road. There's this medicine man with me , so I nudge him and said look at the red horse. He looks and moment the horse raises its head looks right at the car and trots over the fence and stares right into the car.

So then the medicine dude gives me four eagle feathers and says , since you have these , you can call eagles.

So...I tried to call the eagles and I couldn't.

So I was told you're doing it for the wrong reasons. So this goes on for a year , where I am told "You CAN call eagles! Just call the eagles!!! What's are doing? JUST. CALL. THE . EAGLES!!

I can't.

YOU CAN. Call them the same way you do horses.

So I'm like Okay...uhm....eagles come here! Where are the eagles?

No eagles. But suddenly shortly after I had contact with certain people they were seeing eagles zooming all over their heads. Eagles everywhere. Eagles were coming to roost in their neighborhood. What? Some cosmic joke?

I'm sitting in a resturant one day and I call eagles. A hawk zooms down the street and strikes the window next to my table.

Oops.

I can't do this.


YES YOU CAN! JUST CALL THE EAGLES DAMMIT!

So one day long after I gave up I'm driving in my car on this long road trip. And I think to myself , you know I want to see an eagle.

So a bare minute later I come around this corner in the Xway and there's huge oil tank off the side of the road with three story high eagle emblazoned on it.

Oh ha ha very funny.

So I said NO. I want to see a real eagle!!! And not long after that I looked up through my sun roof and there was two of them flying over the car.

So I called the medicine man who gave me the feathers and he told me . Fine tune that.

So know now its I AM going to see eagles.

And then they come.

But I have to want them, I can't 'think' that I want them, I have to want to see them.

I had to give them the same consideration I give horses.

Posted by Sebastion (here)
Hi Delight:

Your story reminds me of an Indian Medicine Wheel Ceremony that I attended a number of years ago. Mind you that at the time I had no experience with shamans period. I was tongue-in-cheek about it and thought it might be fun. There were about 50 people in the circle, all holding hands and we had been instructed by the shaman that no matter what, do not release the hand of the ones you are holding on to as it would break the circle.

There were people drumming as she went from person to person whisking things out from their aura with an eagle feather. Several people gasped and went limp to some degree as she made her way around the circle. When she got to me, I just stood there with my eyes closed, not expecting much of anything. I opened my eyes just in time to see her hand make a pushing motion towards my chest. It was at that moment I felt what seemed to be a snake wiggling inside my heart, literally. I wanted to grab my chest in the worst way but managed to hang on, not breaking the circle.

The next morning, I woke up and realized that I had never ever felt so good, physically in my entire life. I believe if memory serves, that she was a Sioux indian shaman. It was powerful stuff and made a believer out of me!

Posted by Delight (here)

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
We are swayed to engage ourselves in beliefs and philsophies that limit us and don't bring forward where our natural abilities and 'where our joy' is. We get burdened by energy loss. By not knowing our self authority. SELF, I mean that in the highest sense of the word. .........

I have some unique things about myself that I couldn't develop because of this 'service to others' schism and having to tip toe around everyone's feelings. Finallly I just realized this doesn't have anything to do with other people; it has to do with me.........

Being unique is stressed everywhere but we still have this social conditioning it is wrong to be outside the box. Someone is always ready to explain your uniqueness back into a box, because one is not so readily avaliable to energy theive from. ESPECIALLY in the realms of the spiritual where everyone has to be a luv-n-lighter to be 'special' . I fail to see the uniquness in that particular club....lol.Or any authentic expression in it. We all have love, we all have light. Why is this special? Because in spite of all our love and light words we are reavealing a lack where no lack is present. Limiting ourselves......

There's a million boot camps for shamans here in my area, that show people what shaman do. Shake rattles, spit, beat drums.
They could save themselves a ton of money by simply attempting to find their shamanic self, which is a person who is freeing themselves of social and religious programming. Most of all freeing themselves of obligations and expectations of themselves and others. In that vane you have a dozen properly programmed shamans all robotically spitting Florida water and uploading cougars in their root chakra , and waiting for their 'guides' (which are legion) to tell them what to do,when the authentically shamanaically expressed aren't limiting themselves in such a fashion, realizing that cougar in the root is going to eventually turn on the rabbit in the heart, and just know what to do regardles if a bottle of cheap cologne isn't handy. The drum is powerful but its not our power.

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
We all have something that we are and people become so focused on something other than what they are that they entirely miss the point.

The best that can be said of Christianity in regards to having any sort of estoeria to regard scriptural stories as metaphors instead of literal. but most of them are just adapted from other traditions. An example of Christian 'esoteria ' is Catholic magick but its still adopted from earlier traditions. Catholics didn't invent incense , incensors, communion, baptism, or excorcism. those are esoteric practices that were adapted from other traditions and summarily and eventually corrupted by the Church to be rendedered nearly useless.

Sebastion, 9eagle9 and all,
One of the ways that I appreciate the back and forth of these conversations is to see something that I can use as a mirror often showing synchronicity of what my larger SELF wants me to see.

I doubt that authentic usefulness for me is found in the smooth agreement so I often tend to see contrast.

Though I never was a true believer, I have wanted to find a home and family to "be in". I have always been more open to the woowoo than the conventional and gravitate to the part of the collective that investigates there. My personal experience has been that I was always on the fringe of the fringe (hehe).

Yes, I have slogged through the mud of all kinds of experience. Luckily I have never hurt myself. Lately I am much more self sufficient and have much less drama.

No group is outside a box. I have been involved in the past with a group that uses medicine ceremony under the guidance of shamen who would be brought with their medicine from out of the country. The groups meet and people are together using the entheogen.

The last time I participated, I was so out of the box of what was expected that I was carried out. In the situation, rather than purging, I was singing and in an ecstatic state which was not going with the program at all.

Though people were making noise with vomiting, singing was not appropriate.

I couldn't really "help myself" and I couldn't physically move as my body seemed to be disconnected. People came to stop me and I recall being asked to get up and go outside. I recall being unable to move. Then I fell deep inside myself like going into a void with no recall. Apparently I was protesting the situation asking to be left alone with what I was experiencing. I reacted to being touched by "spitting" and saying the people were infected by ghouls (it was on Halloween by the way so must have had some symbolic association).

I was told it took 4 people to carry me out, not because I was fighting (spitting was all I could do) but because I had become that heavy and I am 125 pounds.

The complete inappropriateness of that for me and me for that scene cured me of wanting to participate in "rituals". After I digested it all, I realized that my intention for me is to access the states these "medicines" catalyze on my own and with conscious connection to all of myself as I am being altered.

I know I have rough edges of beingness that are being smoothed. That does not bother me at all exceppt when I find "society" to trigger me. Then it is painful. However, since I embrace that I choose to use the mirror, I always move forward in my relentless intention to be fully and wholey my self with Self.

The hall of mirrors is my fun house really. As with everything, who I am is calling forth what I see just so I may use it for what I will. This I recognize as I surrender to my larger Self as the incorruptible Divine blueprint that is my friend, 100% on my side and in no need of being verified by people and places and stuff of any kind. That is my power. I am very powerful for my intents and purposes. That is such a relief now.

My developing trust in who I am (in no way contradicted by appearances and petty 3D behaviors) takes the cuss off everything.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Hi Jorr:

It does take a big load off and feels great doesn't it! lol

Posted by jorr lundstrom (here)
Many yers ago living with a schaman from time to time, when I
described my problems to him, he used to look at me and say:
Are you stupid or something, why do you cling to ideas of
problems you actually dont have? LOL Well having programmed
myself with a lot of BS probaly made me feel being somebody.
Any BS seemed better than nothing, before experiencing that
nothing is more that enough. LOL





All is well


Jorr 2.0

[Delight]

Posted by Sebastion (here)
Hi Delight:

Your story reminds me of an Indian Medicine Wheel Ceremony that I attended a number of years ago. Mind you that at the time I had no experience with shamans period. I was tongue-in-cheek about it and thought it might be fun. There were about 50 people in the circle, all holding hands and we had been instructed by the shaman that no matter what, do not release the hand of the ones you are holding on to as it would break the circle.

There were people drumming as she went from person to person whisking things out from their aura with an eagle feather. Several people gasped and went limp to some degree as she made her way around the circle. When she got to me, I just stood there with my eyes closed, not expecting much of anything. I opened my eyes just in time to see her hand make a pushing motion towards my chest. It was at that moment I felt what seemed to be a snake wiggling inside my heart, literally. I wanted to grab my chest in the worst way but managed to hang on, not breaking the circle.

The next morning, I woke up and realized that I had never ever felt so good, physically in my entire life. I believe if memory serves, that she was a Sioux indian shaman. It was powerful stuff and made a believer out of me!

That's a swell story as well as 9eale9 and her wanting into versus thinking into the eagles.
I am not knocking shaman or medicine. My "group" experience was entirely orchestrated by gringos with the rules which I will knock off my list. I live with the medicine plants here in my house. They are wonderful friends. They helped me alot in ceremony.... But the structure of how to be with them ....not so much.....Making friends is what I like now....egalitarian face to face, everything about being as truthful and spontaneous as possible. Humble is knowing that I am certainly not the wiser of any being, not the plants, not the animals...I am sure we are all equally valuable and can learn from one another when we "want" to be in contact. I just want to be allowed to be as appropriate as the next being. Group space does not seem to be about that as I have refereneced with the struggle in "social" situations (including the codependency dance yadda yadda..... I do not plan to fight the system, just stop needing the system.

[9eagle9]

Mine was too, I had to get away from the whole group thing years ago. I could explain why but it basically amounts to just such a drain constantly jostling for position that just mean you got stuck between people's elbows all the times. The energy drain trying to hold space was so bad. Like being filled with concrete and kept thinking 'what is wrong with me that I'm so exhausted by all this'.

Shouldn't it be uplifting?. No because the group got stuck.

Just energy drain. And you don't like to think that of people and its not like they were doing intentionally , and few were, but soooo draining.

[Sebastion]

I must say that I was never really aware of plants being able to produce shamanic type trips. Marajuana was about the only one I knew about only after I had entered the military. Got my drinking days over in the military as well. I found that there was nothing in it for me. I also developed a great aversion to consuming anything whatever that might interfere with mental clarity, even to refusing to take aspirins or pills of any kind. Had a few doctors kick me out of their office as I refused taking their prescriptions even for back pain! lol

Posted by Delight (here)

Posted by Sebastion (here)
Hi Delight:

Your story reminds me of an Indian Medicine Wheel Ceremony that I attended a number of years ago. Mind you that at the time I had no experience with shamans period. I was tongue-in-cheek about it and thought it might be fun. There were about 50 people in the circle, all holding hands and we had been instructed by the shaman that no matter what, do not release the hand of the ones you are holding on to as it would break the circle.

There were people drumming as she went from person to person whisking things out from their aura with an eagle feather. Several people gasped and went limp to some degree as she made her way around the circle. When she got to me, I just stood there with my eyes closed, not expecting much of anything. I opened my eyes just in time to see her hand make a pushing motion towards my chest. It was at that moment I felt what seemed to be a snake wiggling inside my heart, literally. I wanted to grab my chest in the worst way but managed to hang on, not breaking the circle.

The next morning, I woke up and realized that I had never ever felt so good, physically in my entire life. I believe if memory serves, that she was a Sioux indian shaman. It was powerful stuff and made a believer out of me!

That's a swell story as well as 9eale9 and her wanting into versus thinking into the eagles.
I am not knocking shaman or medicine. My "group" experience was entirely orchestrated by gringos with the rules which I will knock off my list. I live with the medicine plants here in my house. They are wonderful friends. They helped me alot in ceremony.... But the structure of how to be with them ....not so much.....Making friends is what I like now....egalitarian face to face, everything about being as truthful and spontaneous as possible. Humble is knowing that I am certainly not the wiser of any being, not the plants, not the animals...I am sure we are all equally valuable and can learn from one another when we "want" to be in contact. I just want to be allowed to be as appropriate as the next being. Group space does not seem to be about that as I have refereneced with the struggle in "social" situations (including the codependency dance yadda yadda..... I do not plan to fight the system, just stop needing the system.

[Sebastion]

In what will be an extremely inadequate attempt to finish Conk's question, that being: Is the heart the brain of the soul?, I find that it does bring up a need to more fully explain that which can't be explained. lol Keep in mind that any words used are but dim shadows, if even that. Love Absolute, in my-oh so-human translation is the rhythmic, balanced interchange of Masculine/Feminine Love energy, merging and blending in a continuous dance that is so deep, profound, Holy, exquisite and so very far beyond those words that meaning is lost. It is impossible to fathom. IT is wholly complete needing nothing outside, as there is no outside as it is already ALL. Anything else is inconceivable. There is only Love, Itself.

Knowing that, I tried several times to contemplate how anything beyond the Heart could possibly have come into existence. Trying to contemplate that is literally to contemplate insanity. I have a theory, an educated guess but that is all and nature itself supports it. Thinking in the Heart would consist only of finding greater depths to express/experience Love ever more deeply between the Masculine/Feminine energies. I would apologize for words are useless.

[Delight]

Posted by Sebastion (here)
In what will be an extremely inadequate attempt to finish Conk's question, that being: Is the heart the brain of the soul?, I find that it does bring up a need to more fully explain that which can't be explained. lol Keep in mind that any words used are but dim shadows, if even that. Love Absolute, in my-oh so-human translation is the rhythmic, balanced interchange of Masculine/Feminine Love energy, merging and blending in a continuous dance that is so deep, profound, Holy, exquisite and so very far beyond those words that meaning is lost. It is impossible to fathom. IT is wholly complete needing nothing outside, as there is no outside as it is already ALL. Anything else is inconceivable. There is only Love, Itself.

Knowing that, I tried several times to contemplate how anything beyond the Heart could possibly have come into existence. Trying to contemplate that is literally to contemplate insanity. I have a theory, an educated guess but that is all and nature itself supports it. Thinking in the Heart would consist only of finding greater depths to express/experience Love ever more deeply between the Masculine/Feminine energies. I would apologize for words are useless.

I really like your thread Sebastian. The energy here has an accepting sense of nonjudgement that takes everything in and breathes it out lovelier. Must be your energy??

Something that I have been pondering today has to do with polarities of inside/out, animal body/soul, masculine/feminine. I read something that struck me. When unconscious people fall in love, they project their soul onto the beloved literally sending off their soul. A man's soul is feminine and a woman's masculine. Then one longs for the other but it is just longing for having sent the soul off. Then the person wants the soul back and brings it back.....again unconscious ...... and sees the "beloved" and asks "What made me feel this person was xyz (whatever his/her soul "looks like"). It would be fun to get into what relationships between clear feeling nonprojective feel like. I have not yet.

I am still romancing my inner male. And fractally, is he balancing a feminine polarity? Fractals within fractals of balance? He is what wants to write and think of ideas and philosophize...silly guy that he is? At any rate, I responded to your post with "Someone in me don't wanna give up the thinking." Good observation on the way to a wedding.

I have often felt very masculine inside which apparenetly is getting more in touch with my masculine polarity soul.

On a similar note, I remember Inelia Benz said that the work for a typically human woman is to activate power and for a man to activate unconditional love. That makes sense. Then I was meditating on what about men I really appreciate and it was when a man can become able to talk of love like Rumi speaks.

If I merge with my soul as a masculine polarity becoming neither male nor female, can I feel everything even more or does it become silent?. When I am feeling fully integrated, I am No Gender at all...... then even better when I am deeply accessing, I am nothing at all. Even there power/love exist but not in ideations, it just IS.

[9eagle9]

Nearly all plants are plant spirit helpers. The ones that get the most credit would be those what help with transcending events. Transcending events typically are those that help one over come or transcend themselves. Ceremonies where plant helpers or euthogens are used.

Plants that help to transcend on a less sensational level would be willow--willow bark--to transcend physical pain. The 'guru' plants stole the show but they are all plant helpers. Indigenous people know this more , they have common plants they venerate like cedar and sage for their plant helper spirit properties. Plants speak. The basic way a plant communicates to us is by the mouth. What it tastes like.

The druids, understanding they'd be cut off from their plant helpers, trancended that and employed energetic means of with plants and trees. No physical plant in any form needed to be present, the spirit of the plant helper was invited in covertly. This is rather reduced these days to people who acknowledge that druids spoke to trees. That was communing with the trees. An act of Communion which now means something far different. A druid would place a leaf of tree on the tongue to commune with it. Now....people stick foam wafers in their mouth and...........probably don't get the same effect...lol.

Our whole life here in this incarnation seems to revolve around what replacing what is real with something artifical or a futile substitute.

Plants were once named so one could know what they helped with. Like Loveage. A plant that helped with matters of the heart emotional and spiritually.

Plants have companion plants and companion components that help them.

Interestingly enough we began to be forced apart from our plant guides by modern medicine that isolated the component they thought was responsible for achieving a curative effect. Those medicines became less effective because the component got cut off from certain sources that helped it to achieve the wholeness effect.

Made less whole. Reflective of what happened to us , cut off from Source.

Witches used to grow Rowan trees outside their kitchens to be companion plants. Like a tree familar.

In the hysteria of the chemtrail and EM assaults we experience, people fail to see what trees are doing to abate the chemtrail effect, so even though many have forgotten plant spirit helpers they are in fact still helping.

Citrus trees don't grow well in the north and the reason is they 'can't help here'. Citrus cools the body down and us northerners have to have foods that warm the body. We have more warming type plant helper foods, conversely don't grow well in warmer climes.

Plant spirits, condensed plant spirits like essential oils and alcohol. Called that for a reason, it does have a spiritual effect on the body. Beers used to be brewed with herbs. That got corrupted as well. Once we ingested 'spirit's we didn't know what to do after that.

Speaking in terms of energy medicine the liver is where toxic emotions are stored. The liver itself is a detoxifier. Spirits break down those toxic emotions which is why you see people weep or fly into rages often times when they drink. But they were not taught what to do during this time to free themselves from the toxicity of the emotion so it would just imbed again.

What modern medicine referse to as alchoholism is a symptom of self medication. It's an act of intuition one is not aware of why they are during it, a clumsy attempt at self medication.

Isn't it interesting that the powers that be and their artifical medicines on one hand proclaim the dis-effectiveness of herbs, plants and botanicals and on the other hand stringently keep pushing to have them codexed and made unavailable. If they don't help, why bother?

Because they do.

Posted by Sebastion (here)
I must say that I was never really aware of plants being able to produce shamanic type trips. Marajuana was about the only one I knew about only after I had entered the military. Got my drinking days over in the military as well. I found that there was nothing in it for me. I also developed a great aversion to consuming anything whatever that might interfere with mental clarity, even to refusing to take aspirins or pills of any kind. Had a few doctors kick me out of their office as I refused taking their prescriptions even for back pain! lol

Posted by Delight (here)

Posted by Sebastion (here)
Hi Delight:

Your story reminds me of an Indian Medicine Wheel Ceremony that I attended a number of years ago. Mind you that at the time I had no experience with shamans period. I was tongue-in-cheek about it and thought it might be fun. There were about 50 people in the circle, all holding hands and we had been instructed by the shaman that no matter what, do not release the hand of the ones you are holding on to as it would break the circle.

There were people drumming as she went from person to person whisking things out from their aura with an eagle feather. Several people gasped and went limp to some degree as she made her way around the circle. When she got to me, I just stood there with my eyes closed, not expecting much of anything. I opened my eyes just in time to see her hand make a pushing motion towards my chest. It was at that moment I felt what seemed to be a snake wiggling inside my heart, literally. I wanted to grab my chest in the worst way but managed to hang on, not breaking the circle.

The next morning, I woke up and realized that I had never ever felt so good, physically in my entire life. I believe if memory serves, that she was a Sioux indian shaman. It was powerful stuff and made a believer out of me!

That's a swell story as well as 9eale9 and her wanting into versus thinking into the eagles.
I am not knocking shaman or medicine. My "group" experience was entirely orchestrated by gringos with the rules which I will knock off my list. I live with the medicine plants here in my house. They are wonderful friends. They helped me alot in ceremony.... But the structure of how to be with them ....not so much.....Making friends is what I like now....egalitarian face to face, everything about being as truthful and spontaneous as possible. Humble is knowing that I am certainly not the wiser of any being, not the plants, not the animals...I am sure we are all equally valuable and can learn from one another when we "want" to be in contact. I just want to be allowed to be as appropriate as the next being. Group space does not seem to be about that as I have refereneced with the struggle in "social" situations (including the codependency dance yadda yadda..... I do not plan to fight the system, just stop needing the system.

[Sebastion]

I am now even more appreciative of what ljwheat has said about language and the tower of Babel. After thinking more about what I have written in the description of the Heart of One, I can see now from a certain perspective and point of view, that putting words together in any way regarding the Heart, is tantamount to and borders on a defilement. I will refrain from anymore descriptions in that regard.

I can now see more clearly than ever how language has severely hampered, impaired and enslaved the human mind. It is not a pleasant realization by any means.

[9eagle9]

It does seem like that system of substituting language for the actual expression of the heart has further disconnected us from it. Jorr mentioned in another thread that even unconditional love has become a condition.

Lol, every time we open our mouths we create another condition. Spell casting!

Posted by Sebastion (here)
I am now even more appreciative of what ljwheat has said about language and the tower of Babel. After thinking more about what I have written in the description of the Heart of One, I can see now from a certain perspective and point of view, that putting words together in any way regarding the Heart, is tantamount to and borders on a defilement. I will refrain from anymore descriptions in that regard.

I can now see more clearly than ever how language has severely hampered, impaired and enslaved the human mind. It is not a pleasant realization by any means.

[Sebastion]

You are touching in on a subject that goes about as deep into your core being as it gets. And it gets really, really deep! It is a subject relatively few are aware of and even fewer still would delve into that, because it opens up a serious can of worms, potentially. And beside that on the surface, it would appear to be a frivolity. For me personally, I can assure you that it was anything but frivolous.

When you begin addressing the masculine and feminine within you, you begin addressing the core essence of you as a source being. I was at one time, hard core masculine. For me to think that there was any aspect within me that was feminine was patently obsurd-those are fighting words!

I would have a tendency to think that any language that would be necessary to use regarding the masculine/feminine would be foreign to most and not readily understood. In my headlong pursuit of the unvarnished truth of what is, there were many exposures to the light/dark side of the masculine and the light/dark side of the feminine. It was some extremely heavy duty learning. The most scary and hideous thing I have ever encountered was the dark side of the feminine.

It has been said that hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, boy is that an understatement!

Posted by Delight (here)

Posted by Sebastion (here)
In what will be an extremely inadequate attempt to finish Conk's question, that being: Is the heart the brain of the soul?, I find that it does bring up a need to more fully explain that which can't be explained. lol Keep in mind that any words used are but dim shadows, if even that. Love Absolute, in my-oh so-human translation is the rhythmic, balanced interchange of Masculine/Feminine Love energy, merging and blending in a continuous dance that is so deep, profound, Holy, exquisite and so very far beyond those words that meaning is lost. It is impossible to fathom. IT is wholly complete needing nothing outside, as there is no outside as it is already ALL. Anything else is inconceivable. There is only Love, Itself.

Knowing that, I tried several times to contemplate how anything beyond the Heart could possibly have come into existence. Trying to contemplate that is literally to contemplate insanity. I have a theory, an educated guess but that is all and nature itself supports it. Thinking in the Heart would consist only of finding greater depths to express/experience Love ever more deeply between the Masculine/Feminine energies. I would apologize for words are useless.

I really like your thread Sebastian. The energy here has an accepting sense of nonjudgement that takes everything in and breathes it out lovelier. Must be your energy??

Something that I have been pondering today has to do with polarities of inside/out, animal body/soul, masculine/feminine. I read something that struck me. When unconscious people fall in love, they project their soul onto the beloved literally sending off their soul. A man's soul is feminine and a woman's masculine. Then one longs for the other but it is just longing for having sent the soul off. Then the person wants the soul back and brings it back.....again unconscious ...... and sees the "beloved" and asks "What made me feel this person was xyz (whatever his/her soul "looks like"). It would be fun to get into what relationships between clear feeling nonprojective feel like. I have not yet.

I am still romancing my inner male. And fractally, is he balancing a feminine polarity? Fractals within fractals of balance? He is what wants to write and think of ideas and philosophize...silly guy that he is? At any rate, I responded to your post with "Someone in me don't wanna give up the thinking." Good observation on the way to a wedding.

I have often felt very masculine inside which apparenetly is getting more in touch with my masculine polarity soul.

On a similar note, I remember Inelia Benz said that the work for a typically human woman is to activate power and for a man to activate unconditional love. That makes sense. Then I was meditating on what about men I really appreciate and it was when a man can become able to talk of love like Rumi speaks.

If I merge with my soul as a masculine polarity becoming neither male nor female, can I feel everything even more or does it become silent?. When I am feeling fully integrated, I am No Gender at all...... then even better when I am deeply accessing, I am nothing at all. Even there power/love exist but not in ideations, it just IS.

[9eagle9]

I just noticed this in Sebastions quoted post.

On a similar note, I remember Inelia Benz said that the work for a typically human woman is to activate power and for a man to activate unconditional love. That makes sense. Then I was meditating on what about men I really appreciate and it was when a man can become able to talk of love like Rumi speaks.


I probably will never know just how hard it is for men to activate unconditional love but I do know how hard it is for women to activate power. Or perhaps not so much as activation but expression.
Even in spiritual circles it is still unacceptable for women to have power and to express it.A lot of people still feel much safer as 'power as a thought' instead of an expression. I've watched in this forum where a man says something and its okay, yeah, great 'thanks all over'. But if a woman says it.....ooooo...Not okay....lol. The woman is wrong in some fashion even though the very same thing has been expressed. "Not nice'. Power is seldom nice. Get struck by lightening and we'll see how nice it is. A storm isn't nice, its very convoluted on what power should be.

Percieved as a woman stealing a man's power. If a woman has power why should she have to steal it?

"Female power SHOULD still have conditions on it and power doesn't."

The lightening doesn't care that you're sitting in an easy chair , it strikes anyway. You can't negotiate it or condition it by saying,' I'm in my house with rubber shoes on, you can't strike me! '

Powerful women don't care (if they did it would be further conditioning). Women's power chastisement is really just another way of putting a condition on their power so others feel safe. So in this age of the 'emergence of the divine female principal' you see more molding of what women's power should be....rather than what it is. More often by men making this modeling. Posting up videos that remind one of feminine hygiene commercials. "Look how powerful I am, I can dance on a beach with white shorts on!" How much power that does that take? None really. I notice that none of these videos show a woman dancing naked in the sleet in the middle of a blizzard....lol. How easy is it to dance on a beach? Pretty darn easy here for a woman who trudges knee high in manure everyday and convinces herself that its 'just mud'.

It does take quite a lot of energy expenditure to fly to a beach, buy the white shorts and dance all over the place and what has been demonstrated exactly?

Because much of this is promoted by men not in touch with the unconditional side of things we end up with soft patriachal. Women can have power--on their terms. They can have it as long as they don't express it. But if you have it, its going to be expressed. If you have blonde hair its going to be expressed somehow. If have anything it will be expressed unless one has put conditions on it.

So we still have the opposing core values at play here. Women should be powerful but the moment they are its wrong because power in general is misunderstood.

I see these men get caught in the female divine power trap, which are conditions. You are shown a man weeping in a corner over the beauty of butterflies and he's expressing his female side.

i know many powerful women, I don't know of any of them that do that or give that over as their favored means of power expression.....lol...In fact I don't know any women who do that.

We also make the mistake of thinking that getting into our shakti, our women's power is expressing the male side. Women have their own sort of power. When a mother bear rips someone a new one because they've threatened her cubs that's not a mother bear accessing the male bear's power--that's hers. She owns and shes not afraid to express it.

If that was male power we were expressing males wouldn't be threatened by it. I do have a well developed masculine side, but it doesn't express in ways like that. When its expressed men are not threatened by it but are accepting of it.

Power is power and maybe putting assigning it those sorts of value is still conditioning although it does better help us manage or evolve through these paradigms. We risk creating further duality with it.

Energy tends to have variances only because of the density it moves through. Love is power. Unconditional love is power. I'm thinking we have the same power and its just expressed differently because of the density of conditions imposed on it. The physical body or aspects seems to be an entirely different species but the power appears to remain the same.

while I won't know how hard it is for a man to express the unconditional I do see very much how they express that love via conditioned channels. They begin to state such and such conditions must be expressed before love can be completed. Already setting up conditions of lack if one of those conditions are not met. (of course women do this too) Painting a picture of what the future of love should be. You have to be this and this and this mother, maiden, crone, best friend, lover, wife, cook, maid, whore in bed, virginal and chaste out of the bed. Love just collapses under the weight of all those conditions such obligation put on it that it dries up before it can grow. Instead of just allowing it to express and evolve the relationships between people. Drying up perhaps isn't a good term, its just not allowed in. How unbalanced relationships occur until the loss of energy on one side becomes so great its either leave the relationship or have one's own self wither.

Mohammad wouldn't go to the mountain so the mountain went to Mohammad? Can you imagine.