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Thread: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

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    United States Avalon Member Shabd_Mystic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by Shezbeth (here)
    I would be more impressed if you were to tell me what you think.
    I haven't read every post so sorry if this is a duplicate but I have watched more than 50 videos in the last few days by someone who I'd never heard of before, Adyashanti, and he covers nearly every possible top regarding enlightenment. And unlike some who claim to have reached that state (and I am not talking about anyone who has posted here) I am absolutely convinced that he has.

    He's an American guy who got into Zen heavily in his late teens. I'm usually very skeptical about such claims but this is a rare case where I'm both convinced and really like the guy. I've downloaded every YouTube video of his that I can find (more than 300) and have watched more than 50 thus far.

    Here's a short video that talks about enlightenment (and there are many longer videos on YouTube that are worth a look):

    Adyashanti - There Is No Such Thing As A Personal Awakening

    Last edited by Shabd_Mystic; 9th December 2013 at 21:07.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Adyashanti - There Is No Such Thing As A Personal Awakening

    Tim says exactly the same thing.

    This is an excellent thread.

    Chris
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    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    United States Avalon Member Shabd_Mystic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...


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    United States Avalon Member Shabd_Mystic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    I watched this video in September and it had a profound affect on me as I began wondering if all the "spiritual" things that happen to us, usually from mystical practices, are in reality nothing more than the right half of the brain becoming dominant. Perhaps things such as many hours of meditation slowly subdue the left half of the brain and allow the right half to become dominant.

    This is a Harvard-trained neuroscientist whose brain "exploded" in the mid 90s (the same happened to me a year ago and I am typing this from the nursing home I now live in, but I didn't get the same right-brain benefits - I had already had some of that from my mystical practice). She actually uses the word "nirvana" to describe the state she entered (and can now return to at will) and it made me wonder.

    Surprisingly, she isn't a "typical" scientist who is Atheistic and she in fact believes her venture into the right-brain is when she is actually with God (for lack of a better definition). I was surprised to find that the right brain puts us in a state we sometimes refer to as nirvana, while the left brain is almost identical with what the path I follow says is controlled by "Kal" (the Gnostics called it the "Demiurge" and I'm starting to see something that seems very similar in Buddhism called "Mara").

    What I wonder is whether "God" controls the right brain while what The Bible calls "the god of this world" controls the left (which is dominated by ego), or if that's just the function of the brain which managed to fool countless sages and mystics through the ages who took what happened when the right-brain took over and attached "false" spiritual significance to it over time.

    I mean, maybe the Buddha didn't experience what he thought he did. Maybe the right brain became dominant and he saw everything as one, etc. Anyway, these thoughts really haunted me for a long time because suddenly all I cared about, the ENTIRE focus of my life, might not be any more than an elaborate mind trick. I have recovered from that skepticism, mostly at least, but I figured I'd post the video and see what everyone thinks. It's 20 minutes long and truly compelling (so much so that I read her book and watched her 90-minute interview with Oprah after watching this). Here it is:


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    United States Avalon Member Shabd_Mystic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    More evidence that all mystical states, including enlightenment, might be no more than brain function:

    http://www.viewzone.com/amygdala/

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by Shabd_Mystic (here)
    More evidence that all mystical states, including enlightenment, might be no more than brain function:

    http://www.viewzone.com/amygdala/
    If I had to bet... it is the brain that reflects in the functionality of its parts, including the amygdala, what the being imagines.

    The world I experience can never be explained through the dynamic of materiality or physicality.
    Last edited by Sammy; 25th December 2013 at 03:07.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Awareness exists without anything else--One without a second.
    Nothing can exist without awareness.
    What we tend to think of as real is temporary manifestation--that includes mind.
    The question is "What is eternal?"

    Chris
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    Avalon Member Shadowman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by Shabd_Mystic (here)
    More evidence that all mystical states, including enlightenment, might be no more than brain function:

    http://www.viewzone.com/amygdala/
    Hello Shabd_Mystic,

    This addresses a fundamental error in Western logic and materialism.

    Namely that awareness, as opposed to mind/body consciousness, is a by product or outcome of physical existence.

    While the latter, ie mind/body consciousness, is intimately inter-related, as the name suggests, with a body and mind; such consciousness is transient and ultimately only possible due to the plenary/source/substrate reality.

    Pure Awareness or Being, does not need a foundation in physicality, as it is itself the foundation or source from which all apparent manifestations or appearances arise.

    However, as it cannot be measured or detected by scientific instruments, the five senses or the mind, it cannot be proven materially or logically.

    The great irony, and paradox (and cosmic inside joke) is that it is abundantly Self evident, and present in every experience, conceptualization and manifestation. So much so that people can’t see the forest for the trees, so to speak. In order to experience anything, be it an itch, an emotion or a thought, there must be awareness of it. This awareness is present before, during and after the experience. Whereas thoughts usually arise and interpret sensations after the fact.

    Awareness is often confused with mind/body consciousness. Thinking is confused with Being. The relative thinking “I am” is confused with the absolute Being “I am”.

    The dilemma in the Western mind, is that we are conditioned to believe in reality as having it’s foundation in physicality. We are taught that awareness is dependant upon a physical vehicle or form, that it requires a brain to “exist” or “live”. When in fact it is the other way around. Just as the ocean allows for all manner of life forms to exist within it, so the unified field or ocean of awareness allows for all manner of apparent relative life forms to “exist”.

    While mind/body consciousness and altered states of mind/body consciousness can be initiated in many ways [ie chemically (internally induced such as serontonin/DMT or externally induced such as LSD/Ayahuasca/Psilocybin etc), harmonically or rhythmically pulsed light or sound waves, focusing on specific thought patterns, rigorous physical disciplines, emotional or psychological trauma, near death experiences, repetitive movements/dancing/swirling and various spiritual techniques] and for many purposes, [such as alleviating stress, curing and/or indulging addictions, becoming more creative, improving health and well being physically/emotionally/psychologically, personal development, recreational use, curiosity and escapism] their highest purpose is the Realization/Communion/Union with your Eternal True Being.

    Such Realization is profound beyond words, and is self evidently independent of any and all phenomena, physical or otherwise. It is complete and absolute freedom. Freedom from all relative limitation and conceptualization. But it cannot be given to you or even proven to you. It must be realized directly.

    Only you can know when you have sufficient courage, maturity and determination to enter fully into this great matter. Until then, the mind will always find distractions/temptations/complications/doubts to ensure it’s apparent survival/continuity/reign,

    Namaste / With Love
    tim

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    That's a true Christmas post, Tim.

    Filled with gifts.

    Thank you.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by tim (here)
    Only you can know when you have sufficient courage, maturity and determination to enter fully into this great matter. Until then, the mind will always find distractions/temptations/complications/doubts to ensure it’s apparent survival/continuity/reign,
    I don't disagree with your thesis, but I would like to point out that you are suggesting that individuals who are skeptical/critical of this type of expression are immature, flighty cowards.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by meeradas (here)
    That's a true Christmas post, Tim.

    Filled with gifts.

    Thank you.
    You're most welcome meeradas.

    Wishing you the eternal peace and joy of "mass Christ" Consciousness.

    May you avoid the materialistic pains/attachments of "Satan's Claw's" now and forever.

    May we celebrate today the triumph of One who showed the way home,

    who chose Love over Gold, and reminded us that above all else,

    to Love God/All That Is, and in doing so, to Love one another,


    Merry Christmas my beautiful and wise friend,
    In Lak'ech / With Love
    tim

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by Shezbeth (here)
    Quote Posted by tim (here)
    Only you can know when you have sufficient courage, maturity and determination to enter fully into this great matter. Until then, the mind will always find distractions/temptations/complications/doubts to ensure it’s apparent survival/continuity/reign,
    I don't disagree with your thesis, but I would like to point out that you are suggesting that individuals who are skeptical/critical of this type of expression are immature, flighty cowards.
    Hello Shezbeth,

    Thankyou for expressing your perspective.

    Skepticism and criticism, as conceptual viewpoints, have their place in determining a suitable path/sadhana. Or in testing a potential teacher/master/guide. Like all states of mind, however, they can become a hindrance or obstacle having once embarked on a chosen method. The mind cannot lead you beyond itself. This is the meaning of Sosan’s wonderfully succinct statement;

    To seek Mind with discriminating mind is the greatest of all mistakes.

    Where Mind with a capital M denotes Awareness or Being. In order to pierce the grand illusion of duality, the subjective thinking “self” must be transcended...

    When no discriminating thoughts arise,
    the old mind ceases to exist.

    When thought objects vanish,
    the thinking-subject vanishes:


    You are not being asked to agree with or believe anything, but rather being offered a way to find out directly for yourself what or who you are in the eternal, absolute sense. But in order to do this, you will have to vanquish/transcend your greatest adversary - your own mind.

    Those who have advanced far along this journey, such as Chris and Chester, know well that the mind does not employ it’s full arsenal of defenses until earnestly challenged. For those that enter into this challenge unprepared, the pitfalls are many and varied. Once you have understood/experienced the power of the mind and what you are up against, you will appreciate more fully the courage referred to when, like Buddha, you stand unmoved in the face of it’s final assault and test.

    A true master cannot walk the path for you, but they can shine a light on some of the obstacles you are likely to encounter. The spiritual maturity referred to enables one to meet with such challenges and obstacles with equanimity, and not be overwhelmed. Or as Rudyard Kipling put it...

    If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same

    Such maturity is developed, inspired and encouraged through all genuine paths by such things as selflessness, patience, sacrifice, generosity, tolerance, forbearance, kindness, fearlessness, honesty, transparency and unconditional love.

    To recognize where a seeker is better served by developing these foundational qualities is not an act of judgement but rather an act of love. Ultimately though, it is for each to decide when they are ready to embark on the quest for Reality or Self Realization,

    Wishing you a Joyous Christmas
    With Love
    tim

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    I would be careful before claiming to represent what another person is saying, though I don't contest that one might identify with the essence of it.

    My point is that when one makes characterizations as such (maturity etc), one is being ineffective toward anyone attempting to understand what you are expressing. Those who have already achieved the state will get it, but there are others to whom you might seem pompous and arrogant. It is a process, and I am familiar with the states that you refer to (though I continue to allude to the idea that there are states beyond such and that the state you describe is more of a pitfall for the unwary); I only allude to the idea that, while appearing to encourage the flowering of such realization you might actually be discouraging it in any other than those in whom it has already flowered and thereby it is useless to (except for individual ego-gratification which is supposed to have been transcended,....).

    Humbug.

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    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    I can understand Tim's point. One doesn't generally grow down, they grow up. Not that there hasn't been this case, but I have never known someone who has awakened to switch and go the other way. It seems that once this bridge has been crossed, it is all but impossible to go back. That is how I took the comment of maturity - in relation to this awakening. I also recall how for years I studied the words of many masters and at times would intellectually "get it" but it never lasted. There's another form of "knowing" that has stealthily slipped inside and one day I realized it was there and see no possibility it can ever be not there... at least in this lifetime.

    Post #188 - one of the very best posts I ever read - Thanks Tim... incredibly inspiring.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Courage is required to accept as true what all enlightened have said throughout the ages.
    The mind rebels.

    Dr David Hawkins spoke of great fear as the only death possible occurred--the final death of the ego.
    That too is an illusion but it seems you believe you are being confronted with your personal death.
    Hence the advice that you have to die, give up your life for the love of God
    He said "Only God walks through the final door"
    When the final surrender was gone through it was found that life was more vibrant than he could possibly have imagined.
    I believe him, Tim and others who are the forerunners of "human/spiritual" evolution.

    There is no enlightened me.
    The me is an "imposter" but very real.
    St Teresa, when asked how she could treat those who had all kinds of infectious diseases, said "They are all Christ in disguise"

    There are many blessings and pitfalls on the pathless path.
    The true teacher advises on the pitfalls as well as encourages.

    Chris
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    This one works here - when the final question is answered and yet another question arises, that question is nothing but an exercise of the mind when the mind has already been transcended in answering the final question.

    A child can grow up and still engage in a game of hide and seek. But the game is never as it was when one was the child.

    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Snap!!! I just posted this video on another thread Chester---syncronicity
    Room for two the same--smiling.

    Chris
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    and Wind posted it first I see!... a triple synchronicity!

    For me, there is no more of a joyous experience than synchronicities shared with loved ones.

    Synchronicities are the "impersonal miracles" in that they don't not come from an individual - they come from THE Living Being, the entirety of it all.
    Last edited by Sammy; 27th December 2013 at 07:00.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Courage is required to accept as true what all enlightened have said throughout the ages.
    You may call it courage - and it is! - but it also is submitting to authoritarian programming.

    IMO, it takes significantly more courage - and no authoritarianism - to contest 'the enlightened' and their multitudes of followers. Edit: That in response to Mooji.

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post776632
    Last edited by Shezbeth; 27th December 2013 at 22:43.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    It is the place one finds oneself once all the programming has slipped away.

    There are no authorities much less any other labeled things.

    Enlightenment can't be properly described, it can only be pointed to. Just because one or more of us points does not mean any other might ever "see" what is pointed to. Yet once seen... truly seen, it cannot be shaken, it cannot be argued away, it cannot be forgotten. It cannot be deconstructed as it is a whole and in fact, the whole.

    All dots connect when enlightened. The dots as well as the connectors all become known as illusory.

    Understanding pervades.

    Compassion envelopes.

    Pointing then becomes all encompassing.... all I ever find myself doing these days as it is tremendously joyful to experience another when the light goes on.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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