Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

[panopticon]

If I am hungry I eat.
If I am thirsty I drink.
If I think "I want to go over there" I get up and go over there.

Simplicity is separate from action.
To seek simplicity creates attachment and want.

I don't think "I'm going to breath now". I just do.
Wu wei is acting without doing (or non-doing).

All this talk of higher selves and separate minds is camouflage for the ego to hide in.

I live in the world and participate as I feel the need.

Remember to breath.

-- Pan

[Guish]

Simplicity is an effect of the awakening process. No one seeks it. It just happens. Detachment, compassion and calmness are other effects. You can't create them. They just occur.

[Shadowman]

Posted by Guish (here)
Controlling the mind to feel calm is not the way. There has to be a scientific way, hence meditation. However, I think some people are more inclined towards meditation.

Hi Geerish,

Welcome to the thread and thank you for your comments.

Any attempt to control the mind is by another aspect of the mind. It is the same with "doing" meditation as distinct from proper meditating, which is the cessation of all identification with doing.

This does not mean that the mind is not involved in the practical aspects of setting aside time regularly to practice. But once seated, the attention which is normally focused towards outer phenomena, be it sensory perceptions, thoughts or feelings, should be focused on that awareness in which such phenomena occur. By just witnessing the mind without judgement, and not being actively involved or identified, it will gradually quieten as a matter of course.

I was attracted to vipassana, zazen and vichara as they are direct simple methods, without ritual or mumbo jumbo. But in this day and age, as you pointed out, not all are compatible with silent meditation, at least initially. Which is where other methods, such as devotional dancing, singing or active service to others, may suit better,

Namaste/ In Lak'ech
tim

[Guish]

Posted by tim (here)

Posted by Guish (here)
Controlling the mind to feel calm is not the way. There has to be a scientific way, hence meditation. However, I think some people are more inclined towards meditation.

Hi Geerish,

Welcome to the thread and thank you for your comments.

Any attempt to control the mind is by another aspect of the mind. It is the same with "doing" meditation as distinct from proper meditating, which is the cessation of all identification with doing.

This does not mean that the mind is not involved in the practical aspects of setting aside time regularly to practice. But once seated, the attention which is normally focused towards outer phenomena, be it sensory perceptions, thoughts or feelings, should be focused on that awareness in which such phenomena occur. By just witnessing the mind without judgement, and not being actively involved or identified, it will gradually quieten as a matter of course.

I was attracted to vipassana, zazen and vichara as they are direct simple methods, without ritual or mumbo jumbo. But in this day and age, as you pointed out, not all are compatible with silent meditation, at least initially. Which is where other methods, such as devotional dancing, singing or active service to others, may suit better,

Namaste/ In Lak'ech
tim

My experience is the same. I mentioned it earlier. One gets detached even from the idea of detachment with time. I started Zazen because it was simple to do. Enlightenment is really simple if one thinks about it. It's just hard if you are sill holding on to things. Right now, it's strange to talk to me. My wife would ask me if she's beautiful today and I'll tell her that Beauty is a mental construct. Haha. Eventually, the state in Zazen penetrates in all my activities. I'd teach in a detached way, do all my actions in such a way that they contribute to a bigger cause-alleviation of suffering of others, be very serene i most cases. Be very empty by guided by something...

Love,
Geerish.

[Rich]

Posted by tim (here)
It is the mind which maintains the dream. While there may well be levels of the mind, ego’s, higher selves and all manner of entities within duality, they are all unreal as relative separate forms

I think so too...but you got to consider that this earthly life may be a very limited and small aspect of ourselves.
So the question is how much can we really know from that little perspective?!

[Guish]

Posted by EmEx (here)

Posted by tim (here)
It is the mind which maintains the dream. While there may well be levels of the mind, ego’s, higher selves and all manner of entities within duality, they are all unreal as relative separate forms

I think so too...but you got to consider that this earthly life may be a very limited and small aspect of ourselves.
So the question is how much can we really know from that little perspective?!

Interesting Question. First everyone comes from the same source. However, everyone is not aware of this. They've created a false self/the ego and they try to satisfy the latter by accomplishing things. The source is always there but there are people who have many layers of ego and others who have few layers of ego. As one reaches the depth of the being, one realises that everything out there is just a manifestation of people's thoughts. Every single creation comes from the thoughts. Hence, what is real? The source. That's where people lose interest in the world. However, it's a trap. With your clear vision, you now see everything as a manifestation of spirit. One just needs to be. Things will just happen. However, looking at people's actions make them seem so uninteresting as they're all working for pride, greed which are baseless things. So, what's left? What do you do? The answer is nothing. You'lll see that your nothingness will alleviate pain without you realising it. Someone told me that he wanted to be alone and meditate. That's all he wants to do. Meditation doesn't teach to be alone. It's about discovering the being behind the thoughts. The answer is the perspective can be limited but you can search for your internal kingdom anywhere. There was one Zen teacher who used to live as a beggar because inner peace is well, inside.

[StandingWave]

Falling asleep while staying awake.

Staying awake while falling asleep.

[2cool]

Nature of all things is to arise and to pass away.
If we are aware of that, and if we are able to recognize thoughts just as thoughts appearing in consciousness
by using Mindfulness or Dzogchen practice we will be free from attachment to anything
which appears in front of us or in our mind.
We just need to cultivate our attention not to forget that.
Once we realize that, we will not become enlightened, but we will be "free from clinging to anything in the world".

I would recommend reading 3 books on this subject:

1. Sam Harris - Waking Up
2. Joseph Goldstein - Mindfulness (A Practical Guide to Awakening)
3. Analayo - Satipatthana (The Direct Path to Realization)


Once you read those 3 books it will become crystal clear what i wanted to say at beginning.

Regards

[Guish]

Posted by 2cool (here)
Nature of all things is to arise and to pass away.
If we are aware of that, and if we are able to recognize thoughts just as thoughts appearing in consciousness
by using Mindfulness or Dzogchen practice we will be free from attachment to anything
which appears in front of us or in our mind.
We just need to cultivate our attention not to forget that.
Once we realize that, we will not become enlightened, but we will be "free from clinging to anything in the world".

I would recommend reading 3 books on this subject:

1. Sam Harris - Waking Up
2. Joseph Goldstein - Mindfulness (A Practical Guide to Awakening)
3. Analayo - Satipatthana (The Direct Path to Realization)


Once you read those 3 books it will become crystal clear what i wanted to say at beginning.

Regards

One word- Impermanence.

[Shadowman]

Posted by EmEx (here)

Posted by tim (here)
It is the mind which maintains the dream. While there may well be levels of the mind, ego’s, higher selves and all manner of entities within duality, they are all unreal as relative separate forms

I think so too...but you got to consider that this earthly life may be a very limited and small aspect of ourselves.
So the question is how much can we really know from that little perspective?!

Hi EmEx,

Enlightenment is that transcendent or plenary reality in which the relative limited aspects or ego's appear. It is not and cannot be "known" by the limited relative aspect, or ego. An illusion cannot "know" reality. Can Gandalf "know" J R R Tolkein? Can NEO, even after having become the ONE in the Matrix/Illusion, know the Wachowski's?

However, when the mind, or conceptual self/ego, becomes silent/inactive, reality is "realized". This is not an accomplishment or acquisition of knowledge by the ego, but rather, what IS... (which is prior to, during and subsequent to the ego's relative temporary appearance/manifestation)

This, what IS, cannot be realized by questions, or any other function of the intellect. Paradoxically and ironically, it takes many people millions of questions to understand this. Nisargadatta's great fortune was to be simple enough to trust his guru 100% when the guru told him he was already the Supreme Being, and to earnestly "practice" or "abide" in that state as far as he was able to thereafter.

If you are able to grok this directly, the clouds can clear "in the twinkling of an eye" and enlightenment can be sudden. But unless "a dude abides" in the "undifferentiated what IS" the momentum of the mind and ego will reassert themselves due to momentum or conditioning. Eventually however the absolute wins out over the relative, as symbolised/depicted by Buddha's victory over Mara, Christ's victory over Satan, and hinted towards by Krishna's instructions to Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita.

It is the same with meditating. No amount of meditating will enlighten an ego, so as long as there is identification with an ego, meditation will be a form of doing by the ego, as indicated by the following exchange;

Nanyue Polishes a Brick
Zen master Mazu Daoyi (Baso) was an attendant to Nanyue and personally received the mind seal from him, exceeding his peers. Before that, he lived in Kaiyuan Monastery and did zazen all day long. Knowing that Mazu was a dharma vessel, Nanyue went to him and asked,
“Great monastic, what do you intend by doing zazen?”
Baso said, “I am intending to be a buddha.”
Nanyue picked up a brick and started polishing it.
Baso said, “What are you doing?”
Nanyue said,”I am trying to make a mirror,”
Baso said, “How can you make a mirror by polishing a brick?”
Nanyue said, “How can you become a buddha by doing zazen?”
Baso said,"What do you mean by that?"
Nanyue said,”Think about driving a cart. When it stops moving, do you whip the cart or the horse?”
Baso said nothing.

Nanvue said,”Do you want to practice sitting Zen or sitting Buddha? If you understand sitting Zen, you will know that Zen is not about sitting or lying down. If you want to learn sitting Buddha, know that sitting Buddha is without any fixed form. Do not use discrimination in the non-abiding dharma. If you practice sitting as Buddha, you must kill Buddha.’’ If you are attached to the sitting form, you are not yet mastering the essential principle. Mazu heard this admonition and felt as if he had tasted sweet nectar.


http://oldschoolzen.blogspot.com.au/...s-masters.html

So stop identifying/being/whipping the cart/ego and focus your attention/identification on the horse/awareness

With Love/ Namaste
tim

[Innocent Warrior]

Hi tim

First time seeing your thread just now. I've only read the OP and I already have a question but I will read through the thread first before posing any questions.

I saw SatndingWave's post and got all excited, I don't see these words often.

Posted by StandingWave (here)
Staying awake while falling asleep.

This can be done, literally, and I want to encourage any folks reading this to practice it, if in any way interested in doing so. I won't say anymore and will leave the result as a surprise to discover.

<3

[Avuso]

Here is another first-hand account of enlightenment. Usually monks will not talk about this, but Ajahn Maha Boowa (1913-2011) chose to tell it all in order to counter a prevailing belief of his time that the path to enlightenment had been lost to humanity. I recommend the first talk in the PDF (p. 11-40) as an easy read telling about his life, and the few words about the actual moment of awakening is pages 34-36. Sorry, I couldn't find the talk outside of this PDF!

http://www.forestdhamma.org/ebooks/e...pdf/Samana.pdf

[Enola]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=FbXgG3DLNGY

[Enola]

He was very Kundalini, wasn't he?

[Shadowman]

Posted by Enola (here)
He was very Kundalini, wasn't he?

Hi Enola,

Thanks for your posts and welcome to the thread.

In Advaita there are 5 sheaths - Material Body, Pranic or Etheric (ie Life Force), Mana (ie Mind), Buddhi (Higher Mind/Intuition/Wisdom) and Bliss.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosha

I would correlate Kundalini with the Pranic Sheath.

All such descriptions within duality are like metaphors ie fingers pointing (beyond the mind and duality) to the full moon (Absolute Reality or Being).

As such all have inherent limitations, while at the same time serving a purpose for seekers.

Identification with each sheath (which are increasingly subtle) must be transcended to "arrive" at, or realize the Self,

Alone/enolA (=All One)/ Namaste
tim

[greybeard]

Good to see "you" posting on "your" thread Tim.
For me you are the authority regarding Enlightenment on Avalon.
Please keep it coming.
Much love
Chris

[Enola]

Posted by tim (here)

Posted by Enola (here)
He was very Kundalini, wasn't he?

Hi Enola,

Thanks for your posts and welcome to the thread.

In Advaita there are 5 sheaths - Material Body, Pranic or Etheric (ie Life Force), Mana (ie Mind), Buddhi (Higher Mind/Intuition/Wisdom) and Bliss.

I would correlate Kundalini with the Pranic Sheath.

All such descriptions within duality are like metaphors ie fingers pointing (beyond the mind and duality) to the full moon (Absolute Reality or Being).

As such all have inherent limitations, while at the same time serving a purpose for seekers.

Identification with each sheath (which are increasingly subtle) must be transcended to "arrive" at, or realize the Self,

Alone/enolA (=All One)/ Namaste
tim

Thanks for your comments. I tend to think of the higher self like this:





When you say the "Self" are you talking about the highest self or the monad/Godself?

Because when I think about enlightenment I think about integrating the intermediate higher self. If I could integrate the higher mind and the buddhic love/bliss body I think I would be content.

I know that it goes on and on to higher and higher levels but I can't imagine what that would be like.

[Shadowman]

Posted by Enola (here)

Thanks for your comments. I tend to think of the higher self like this:





When you say the "Self" are you talking about the highest self or the monad/Godself?

Because when I think about enlightenment I think about integrating the intermediate higher self. If I could integrate the higher mind and the buddhic love/bliss body I think I would be content.

I know that it goes on and on to higher and higher levels but I can't imagine what that would be like.

Hi Enola,

By "Self" I mean the Absolute or Plenary Reality or Source in which all appearances take place.

A search of the links in the opening post or a reading of this thread will give you a broader view of what is meant. There are a number of books and teachers also recommended to look into if you are so inclined.

While it is extremely difficult to accurately convey using conventional language, the opening post is one such effort to describe the indescribable.

The only way to spiritually realize or have gnosis, as opposed to conceptual or intellectual knowledge, is to set aside that with which you usually "know" things ie the mind. In doing so, that which magically creates the illusion of a separate or individual "self" is penetrated and the apocalypse occurs.

(1125-75; Middle English < Late Latin apocalypsis < Greek apokálypsis revelation, equivalent to apokalýp (tein) to uncover, reveal )[/COLOR]

What seemed to be confined within the form of your body is now not only everywhere, but more accurately is the source of both space and time...

The goose (your true Self) has never been confined in a bottle (form/mind/body)...

http://www.oshorajneesh.com/download...ose_is_Out.pdf


"Because when I think about enlightenment I think about integrating the intermediate higher self. If I could integrate the higher mind and the buddhic love/bliss body I think I would be content."


You don't have to integrate, attain or earn what is Real, for you are already IT. In order to integrate, something must first be divided. But the Absolute is whole/holy and all that is required is to remove the illusions and obstacles (maya), which are all created by the mind.

In Exodus God gives the meaning of his name to Moses as I AM THAT I AM. This is as clear a definition of Absolute Being as you will find. The mind attempts to usurp the authority of Absolute Being by the simple trick of adding limitations after I AM ie I am a man/woman/human/higher mind/soul/child/sinner/saint/etc

As long as you believe the lie, that you are some form, and not the I AM, you have something to defend, and something to fear and something to desire.

As mentioned above in #275 the higher mind or Buddhi sheath and the Ananda or bliss sheath are both to be transcended, not integrated. They are subtle aspects of form, or subtle aspects of the unreal. (NB the bliss sheath referred to here is not the same as the uncaused bliss which is an "attribute" of the Self referred to in the Hindu term SatChitAnanda ie ).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satcitananda

"I know that it goes on and on to higher and higher levels but I can't imagine what that would be like."

Levels exist in relativity or duality. As long as the dream exists there will be levels or states, all the way from the most beatific and blissful to the most horrific and painful. But on awakening from the dream of impermanent phenomena, it is realized that separate appearances (ie things, including ones own ego/self) or experienced states were all unreal...

What is, IS (eternally) What ain't, ain't (and never was)

Nothing real can be threatened.
Nothing unreal exists.

Once this is spiritually realized fear and desire are powerless. Only LOVE truly IS. God is this unassailable LOVE,

With (unassailable) Love/ In Lak'ech
tim

[greybeard]

From my own experience of Kundalini I would not claim it to be an awakening (not of the personal me) --the energy awakens and begins clearing the obstacles to Enlightenment as it moves up through the chakras. When this is complete, then there is the possibility that ignorance is removed and there is Realisation of the Self.

With love
c

[ZooLife]

There is no one in duality