+ Reply to Thread
Page 19 of 19 FirstFirst 1 9 19
Results 361 to 372 of 372

Thread: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

  1. Link to Post #361
    Avalon Member tim's Avatar
    Join Date
    14th March 2012
    Posts
    226
    Thanks
    3,995
    Thanked 1,200 times in 219 posts

    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Hi Rich,

    I don't agree that we are God, at least not the God that is referred to in ACIM. But we are one with God

    How and when did you arrive at the conclusion that you are one with God?
    Is this a belief or your direct realisation of what is?

    And if, as you say, that you are not God, yet are one with God, how and in what way are you separate, other than in your thinking/beliefs?

    Some awakened beings claim they are God, even Nisragadatta had the audacity to say he was above God... he said something like; he is the root and god is the tree, so obviously he didn't mean THE God.

    Q: Is there no God apart from you?
    M: How can there be? 'I am' is the root, God is the tree. Whom am I to worship, and what for? – p.58 Ch 15 “I am That”


    You are still perceiving from the relative mind, so you conclude Nisargadatta is speaking from the same place, he is not. He was not saying that he, as an individual, was above God, but that the true “I am” or Self is the foundation of all appearances and apparent manifestations, which includes the separate imagined God of the seeker. So, he was not being audacious nor egotistical, he was simply stating a fact, and attempting to provide guidance to one still caught up in the mind and it’s imaginations. Nisargadatta was responding to a seeker whose opening statement was;

    Questioner: Without God's power nothing can be done. Even you would not be sitting here and talking to us without Him.

    I do not believe I am in a place, the concept of place is an idea in the mind.

    You understand that places and time are creations of the mind, yet don’t see that your (and any) concept of God (including that of a God whom you are somehow separate from, and yet one with) may also be a creation of the mind.

    Rich, you are making the mistake Sosan refers to above, you are trying to arrive at the Absolute by using the very thing that obscures it, the mind.

    Are you undertaking the lessons in the course in miracles? Or undertaking any other spiritual practice ie meditation at present?

    With Love/Namaste
    tim
    Minimum Awareness, Maximum Problems
    Maximum Awareness, Minimum Problems
    Total Awareness, No Problems!

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to tim For This Post:

    Forest Denizen (18th March 2019), greybeard (18th March 2019), Rich (18th March 2019), Wind (23rd March 2019)

  3. Link to Post #362
    Avalon Member Rich's Avatar
    Join Date
    1st December 2012
    Location
    in God
    Posts
    805
    Thanks
    6,600
    Thanked 2,638 times in 721 posts

    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Honestly tim, I do not want to derail the thread by making it about my story or about God, I know in many non dual teachings they do not really believe in God.
    I am not here to challenge that belief.

    Quote Rich, you are making the mistake Sosan refers to above, you are trying to arrive at the Absolute by using the very thing that obscures it, the mind.
    No, it is really about letting go of thoughts and concepts.
    Do you seriously believe that I do not understand this?

    The way I am using the word mind, is that everything is the mind and there is nothing outside of it.
    In your terms it might be called pure consciousness or awareness.

    Quote Are you undertaking the lessons in the course in miracles? Or undertaking any other spiritual practice ie meditation at present?
    Yes, I do meditation and reading (ACIM), I have read much of this thread 4-5 times and several posts more than that.


    As you say "The goose is already out, it was never in".
    Why try to convince me of that which I already know?
    Last edited by Rich; 18th March 2019 at 04:09.
    It is a joke to think that time can come to circumvent eternity. ~ACIM

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rich For This Post:

    greybeard (18th March 2019), tim (22nd March 2019)

  5. Link to Post #363
    Avalon Member tim's Avatar
    Join Date
    14th March 2012
    Posts
    226
    Thanks
    3,995
    Thanked 1,200 times in 219 posts

    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by Rich (here)
    No, it is really about letting go of thoughts and concepts.
    Do you seriously believe that I do not understand this?

    As you say "The goose is already out, it was never in".
    Why try to convince me of that which I already know?
    Hi Rich,

    Actually it is more about letting go of the conceptual “I” which identifies with the phenomena of thoughts and concepts. It is this I which causes the experience of separation, the “we” or “parts” in “God”.

    It is apparent from your posts that while you understand/know this, you are still writing from an intellectual understanding, not from the “perspective” of realisation, a state wherein there is no identification, either as a body, as a mind/ego, or as a human ie

    The way I see it, as a human, the job is Never done, because we cannot have both Reality and Illusion at the same time, no human can have God consciousness but they can let go of the dream/human temporarily and see Reality.

    It is true that we can consider our self God in a way, because we are part of God, we are the same mind, but God being our Source and Creator S/He is bigger.

    Tim you were right, there was some ego to let go off, the ego struggled for a while lol. But your message was really helpful.


    This assessment may be incorrect, for it is difficult to ascertain on an internet forum the seekers level of preparation. Which is why specific questions were asked to clarify both the nature and the timing of how and when you came to the understanding that you don’t have an ego, and are one with God. Claims which many would equate with enlightenment, or the very God Consciousness you say no human can have. Even the very word Human is itself indicative of the inherent potential to realize God/Self…

    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post597294

    These questions were asked to assess how best to respond to your statements. It would be a disservice to you to acknowledge your awakening prematurely. Regardless of where you are at, no judgement was intended, any observations made were made with Love, and a genuine intent to assist you, and any others who are dealing with similiar issues.

    If it is the case that “the goose is out”, nothing further need be said.

    If on the other hand, you come to find you are not yet free, the best course is to attend to your practice. To get caught up in questions and discussions, be they theological, philosophical or metaphysical, simply prolongs the dream…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parabl...Poisoned_Arrow

    It would be helpful to have a short response to the first 3 questions in my last post, and a brief description of your current meditation technique, should you wish to continue our interaction. You can PM me if you would prefer to continue privately,

    Namaste
    tim
    Last edited by tim; 22nd March 2019 at 03:13.
    Minimum Awareness, Maximum Problems
    Maximum Awareness, Minimum Problems
    Total Awareness, No Problems!

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to tim For This Post:

    petra (22nd March 2019), Rich (22nd March 2019)

  7. Link to Post #364
    Avalon Member Rich's Avatar
    Join Date
    1st December 2012
    Location
    in God
    Posts
    805
    Thanks
    6,600
    Thanked 2,638 times in 721 posts

    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by tim (here)
    Hi Rich,

    Actually it is more about letting go of the conceptual “I” which identifies with the phenomena of thoughts and concepts. It is this I which causes the experience of separation, the “we” or “parts” in “God”.



    Quote This assessment may be incorrect, for it is difficult to ascertain on an internet forum the seekers level of preparation.
    Indeed, not even I know what level I am on
    Waking up is an on going process, it does not stop.

    Quote Which is why specific questions were asked to clarify both the nature and the timing of how and when you came to the understanding that you don’t have an ego, and are one with God. Claims which many would equate with enlightenment,
    I do not make these claims.
    I believe as long as you have a body you have an ego.


    Quote or the very God Consciousness you say no human can have. Even the very word Human is itself indicative of the inherent potential to realize God/Self…
    Everyone is free to realize truth, but when you see it, there is no human left, but you come back to being human after that.


    Quote These questions were asked to assess how best to respond to your statements. It would be a disservice to you to acknowledge your awakening prematurely. Regardless of where you are at, no judgement was intended, any observations made were made with Love,
    I know we are Love


    I think we should give it a rest, at least for now, just one more video I want to post that might be of interest to you.
    It is a joke to think that time can come to circumvent eternity. ~ACIM

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rich For This Post:

    petra (22nd March 2019), tim (22nd March 2019)

  9. Link to Post #365
    Avalon Member Rich's Avatar
    Join Date
    1st December 2012
    Location
    in God
    Posts
    805
    Thanks
    6,600
    Thanked 2,638 times in 721 posts

    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Maybe this might be of interest to you tim, watch this from 1:17 to about 1:30 he explains his experience of going from enlightenment to meeting God.
    It is a joke to think that time can come to circumvent eternity. ~ACIM

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Rich For This Post:

    tim (22nd March 2019)

  11. Link to Post #366
    Avalon Member tim's Avatar
    Join Date
    14th March 2012
    Posts
    226
    Thanks
    3,995
    Thanked 1,200 times in 219 posts

    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by Rich (here)

    Quote Which is why specific questions were asked to clarify both the nature and the timing of how and when you came to the understanding that you don’t have an ego, and are one with God. Claims which many would equate with enlightenment,
    I do not make these claims.
    I believe as long as you have a body you have an ego.
    Quite so, you don't make these claims Rich, Emex did . Or Perhaps Emexe's posts #357, #358 & #360 were misunderstood;

    "I do not think my ego is real,"

    "Tim you were right, there was some ego to let go off, the ego struggled for a while lol."

    "But we are one with God."


    So is it the body then that "has" an ego, albeit unreal? Or else who is the "you" that has a body and an ego?

    Lol, nothing unreal (including bodies and ego's) actually exists. And nothing real can be threatened, yes?

    But in the end, lol, you had me at "we are love". As good a starting point as any

    All the best on your journey
    With Love
    tim
    Minimum Awareness, Maximum Problems
    Maximum Awareness, Minimum Problems
    Total Awareness, No Problems!

  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to tim For This Post:

    greybeard (22nd March 2019), petra (22nd March 2019), Rich (22nd March 2019)

  13. Link to Post #367
    Canada On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    7th July 2016
    Location
    Newfoundland, Canada
    Age
    39
    Posts
    1,332
    Thanks
    4,444
    Thanked 4,162 times in 1,181 posts

    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    When people say "God is Love" I feel like they're breaking the language lol
    "We are Love" sounds a whole lot better.

  14. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to petra For This Post:

    greybeard (19th April 2019), justntime2learn (22nd March 2019), tim (22nd March 2019)

  15. Link to Post #368
    Avalon Member tim's Avatar
    Join Date
    14th March 2012
    Posts
    226
    Thanks
    3,995
    Thanked 1,200 times in 219 posts

    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by petra (here)
    When people say "God is Love" I feel like they're breaking the language lol
    "We are Love" sounds a whole lot better.
    It was a concession to Rich, but perhaps breaking the language was the idea in the expression, kind of like a koan breaks the spell of the mind.

    In silence what appears as two is found to be one love...



    After awakening personalised love songs take on a divine flavour, lol...



    I can see beyond forever
    Everything we are will never die
    Loving's such a beautiful thing



    With (One) Love
    tim
    Last edited by tim; 19th April 2019 at 23:08.
    Minimum Awareness, Maximum Problems
    Maximum Awareness, Minimum Problems
    Total Awareness, No Problems!

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to tim For This Post:

    petra (23rd March 2019), Wind (23rd March 2019)

  17. Link to Post #369
    Canada On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    7th July 2016
    Location
    Newfoundland, Canada
    Age
    39
    Posts
    1,332
    Thanks
    4,444
    Thanked 4,162 times in 1,181 posts

    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by tim (here)
    Quote Posted by petra (here)
    When people say "God is Love" I feel like they're breaking the language lol
    "We are Love" sounds a whole lot better.
    It was a concession to Rich, but perhaps breaking the language was the idea in the expression, kind of like a koan breaks the spell of the mind.

    In silence what appears as two is found to be one love...

    After awakening personalised love songs take on a divine flavour, lol...

    With (One) Love
    tim
    That sounds so sweet! It's a shame personalized love songs make me want to throw up, because they're really beautiful. Lol..

    I like the swan photo, that's beautiful 😀

    "Breaking a spell of the mind" is great. I remember thinking "I'm breaking out of my programming!" and then laughing at it. Programming.... ha ha ha

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to petra For This Post:

    greybeard (23rd March 2019), tim (24th March 2019)

  19. Link to Post #370
    Avalon Member Rich's Avatar
    Join Date
    1st December 2012
    Location
    in God
    Posts
    805
    Thanks
    6,600
    Thanked 2,638 times in 721 posts

    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by tim (here)
    The main area of contention with bob was his assertion that there is no Self, with a capital S, (in the absolute sense) as well as no self in the relative sense, which was responded to here...

    If, as bob suggests, there is no self, who then does he propose is "here to learn how to do the right thing"?
    I think he means consciousness without a self/Self can learn to do the right thing, so from that assumption any self is a unreal.
    An interesting thought, there is a video from Jac O'Keeffe where she makes the statement that Beingness is a concept too:

    Last edited by Rich; 15th April 2019 at 17:10.
    It is a joke to think that time can come to circumvent eternity. ~ACIM

  20. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rich For This Post:

    greybeard (15th April 2019), tim (19th April 2019)

  21. Link to Post #371
    Avalon Member tim's Avatar
    Join Date
    14th March 2012
    Posts
    226
    Thanks
    3,995
    Thanked 1,200 times in 219 posts

    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by Rich (here)
    I think he means consciousness without a self/Self can learn to do the right thing, so from that assumption any self is a unreal.
    An interesting thought, there is a video from Jac O'Keeffe where she makes the statement that Beingness is a concept too:
    Hi Rich,

    Lol, consciousness without the Self is metaphorically a cloud without the sky, or a wave without the ocean.

    You are still intellectually confusing the Absolute (Self/Pure Awareness) with the Relative (self/conditioned consciousness). Which is perfectly understandable, lol, the english language is not ideal for expressing non duality. Words like self, consciousness, mind, awareness, god, reality, meditation, existence etc can have entirely different meanings depending on the context and intent of any communication.

    Consciousness*, learning, and all concepts of right and wrong, being and not being, truth and untruth, real and unreal, are relative.

    Characters in a movie/dream, irrespective of their identification (or alleged non-identification**) with an I or self, are appearances in relativity/duality only. As the source, (ie the “light” which allows the characters to appear on the movie screen, or the “dreamer” which allows for all the characters in the dream), they are real, but as dream or movie characters they are unreal.

    What Jac refers to as “Prior to consciousness” (of which she is reluctant to speak, given her experience is expressed as erratic only) is the Self referred to in the OP. She uses the term "Being" relatively on the whiteboard, in that sense “to be or not to be”, are two opposite concepts in duality. However her use of the term Not Being is ironically then used as a pointer towards the substrate or plenary reality which is eternal and unchanging.

    The Supreme/Absolute/Self cannot be known or understood. Words, meanings and definitions are all just concepts pointing towards the indefinable/ineffable. Discussion without practice is futile. It is like constantly making maps while never exploring. Don't get caught up on the words (finger), or you will go around in endless circles, look where the finger is pointing.

    Your recent epiphany is an important step. If possible, discipline yourself to sit in silence for as long as possible each day, preferably at the same time initially. Rest in what you refer to as the energy behind all appearances, remaining as the non personal witness of all objective phenomena. The final step, Self Realisation /Mahasamadhi/ Manonasa /Heaven/Nirvana/Turiya happens naturally and spontaneously.

    Do you have a daily practice currently Rich? Doing nothing is sometimes misunderstood to mean not undertaking a sadhana/practise.

    In Lak'ech
    tim

    * In this context, mind/body consciousness with a conceptual “I” or ego.

    ** ie “I do not think my ego is real” , lol.
    Minimum Awareness, Maximum Problems
    Maximum Awareness, Minimum Problems
    Total Awareness, No Problems!

  22. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to tim For This Post:

    Forest Denizen (19th April 2019), greybeard (19th April 2019), Rich (19th April 2019), Wind (22nd April 2019)

  23. Link to Post #372
    Avalon Member tim's Avatar
    Join Date
    14th March 2012
    Posts
    226
    Thanks
    3,995
    Thanked 1,200 times in 219 posts

    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    An Easter message of encouragement;

    Materialists and atheists believe that day by day they are coming closer to death.

    But while all things must pass in actuality all that dies is the ego and day by day you are coming closer to Awakening/Enlightenment/Self/God, so don't stop digging (practising your sadhana/meditation), you may be closer than you think...







    With Much Love
    In Lak'ech
    tim
    Last edited by tim; 19th April 2019 at 23:45.
    Minimum Awareness, Maximum Problems
    Maximum Awareness, Minimum Problems
    Total Awareness, No Problems!

  24. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to tim For This Post:

    Forest Denizen (20th April 2019), greybeard (20th April 2019), Jill (20th April 2019), Rich (20th April 2019), Valerie Villars (20th April 2019), Wind (22nd April 2019)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 19 of 19 FirstFirst 1 9 19

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts