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Thread: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    I wish the "I" would take a vacation, a permanent one.
    There's nothing wrong with the "I", it's a wonderful navigation device that helps us to stop on red and go on green-- it's just fixating on it that creates the problem, making it the master rather than the servant.


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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Hi another bob
    I cant agree or disagree as I dont know.
    But its through voicing thoughts that I get corrected.
    Regards Chris
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Hi another bob
    I cant agree or disagree as I dont know.
    But its through voicing thoughts that I get corrected.
    Regards Chris
    "The 'I' casts off the illusion of 'I' and yet remains as 'I'. Such is the paradox of Self-realization. The realized do not see any contradiction in it."

    ~Sri Ramana Maharshi



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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by minkton (here)
    I have a question to ask an enlightened master. It's entirely selfish, based entirely on my own situation.

    How would enlightenment assist me in the daily task of enduring relentless astral sexual and psychic harassment, in which I am deprived of sleep, subject to brainwashing attempts, subtle body manipulation, mood manipulation, etc etc etc.

    How does knowing I am living a dream, and that in this dream I am being stalked and mentally tortured..... how does this help me?

    How much equanimity is it possible to cultivate?
    Hi minkton,

    Enlightenment would bring the realization that it is your body/mind/ego which is the “separate” subject or “victim” of astral, sexual or psychic harassment, and that this body/mind/ego is not who you really are. The paradox is that it is the ego which dreams of being the predator or the prey, and yet it is unreal.

    Duality or the world, and all that goes along with it, only appears as real from the ego’s point of view. From your true Self’s “point of view” there is no separation, no ego and no harassment.

    So when “you” say;

    I have a question….
    How would enlightenment assist me
    I am deprived of sleep…
    I am living in a dream…

    All these thoughts or statements appear in the mind and are claimed as my thoughts by the ego.

    To attain freedom simply sit quietly for as long as you are comfortable each day and practice detached awareness of these thoughts without identifying with them. Slowly, slowly it will become apparent that all thoughts and emotions and pains and pleasures come and go, but that the field of awareness in which they appear does not come and go. This is the first step to slaying the dragon/ego.

    As your identity shifts from body/mind/ego to pure awareness, it is accompanied by a tremendous energy and inner peace. Then you will realize rather than understand the meaning of post 2 in this thread by Godiam;

    Nothing real can be threatened, nothing unreal exists.

    Or these

    Do not resist evil…. (to resist reinforces the illusion of separation and ego)
    What is the sound of one hand clapping….(there is no sound or conflict in what is whole)

    Gengis Khan (ego/worldy power) to monk;

    “Don’t you know I can cut off your head without so much as blinking an eye?”

    monk (Self/spiritual power) to Genghis Khan;

    “Don’t you know I can sit here while you cut off my head without so much as blinking an eye?”

    Another thing that you notice as your energy increases is synchronicities or meaningful coincidences. For instance within 15 mins of your post your dilemma was responded to by the Totality via Chris in post 38. Chris pointed out succinctly your solution, which I have put somewhat more verbosely above, lol. (love your work Chris )

    When the student is ready the master/answer appears.
    But the student has to recognize the answer/master!

    As long as you cling to the belief that you "inhabit" the body/mind it will seem to be your identity.

    Minkton I am telling you the truth, you are not the ego or body or mind. You are the Supreme Being or Self in which these passing phenomena appear

    One last suggestion. Use whomever or whatever is harassing you as a stepping stone to attain unconditional love. Just send them love. A spiritual warrior does not seek pain, but when it comes he/she uses it to grow in love. When you can love your enemies just as well as your friends you will know freedom from the ego.

    Gandhi’s last act was to namaste his assassin, or so I have heard.

    All the best in meeting your challenge and remember;

    Only love conquers hate
    Hate cannot conquer hate
    This is the law
    Ancient and universal. - Buddha
    Last edited by Shadowman; 31st March 2012 at 01:28.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Moreover, even by classical standards, what was described in the OP does equate with real liberation. Rather, it merely represents another fixation of identity in some sort of cosmic Self. Both self and Self need to be recognized as fantasies of interpretation on perception, with no inherent reality. Both fictions need to be penetrated for liberation to begin to dawn, and even that is not enough -- unless it is fully integrated and embodied in the way we act and relate in the world, it remains conceptual and rather impotent. -anotherbob


    Hi bob,

    You may choose to disagree that I have realized rather than believe I am Self, but I was using the term Self in the OP, as in Self realization, in the same way as Ramana and Nisargadatta;

    “The scriptures serve to indicate the existence of the Higher
    Power or Self and to point the way to It. That is their essential
    purpose. Apart from that they are useless.

    The intricate maze of philosophy of the various schools is
    said to clarify matters and to reveal the Truth, but in fact it
    creates confusion where none need exist. To understand
    anything there must be the Self. The Self is obvious, so why not
    remain as the Self? What need to explain the non-self?”

    - Ramana Maharshi


    Q: If my real self is peace and love, why is it so restless?
    M: It is not your real being that is restless, but its reflection in
    the mind appears restless because the mind is restless. It is just
    like the reflection of the moon in the water stirred by the wind.
    The wind of desire stirs the mind and the ‘me’, which is but a reflection
    of the Self in the mind, appears changeful. But these
    ideas of movement, of restlessness, of pleasure and pain are all
    in the mind. The Self stands beyond the mind, aware, but unconcerned.
    Q: How to reach it?
    M: You are the Self, here and now. Leave the mind alone, stand
    aware and unconcerned and you will realize that to stand alert
    but detached, watching events come and go, is an aspect of
    your real nature.

    - Nisargadatta responding to questions.

    So in that context your assertion that the Self has no inherent reality, is erroneous and misleading to those on the path.

    My OP also made clear that the realization was predicated on the relative self dissolving, like a shadow exposed to the true light of awareness, which is an apt metaphor to explain what is paradoxical and easily prone to misinterpretation. Where then is the fixation of relative identity in the cosmic self, when there is no separate relative identity left to fixate?

    Is it your contention that Ramana and Nisargadatta did not, as humans, realize enlightenment on this planet, like Buddha, and do you think they also, as great beings, came in with there lights on?

    You said both fictions need to be penetrated for liberation to begin to dawn. Penetrated by who? Do not Ramana and Nisargadatta point out The Self never was bound, never did need to “learn how to behave”, or integrate or embody itself into an illusory separate world?

    The “I” might be a great navigating device in duality, but believing it to be a separate real entity is a barrier to Self realization.

    In short, in response to Ramana’s timeless question - Who am I, how would you answer bob?

    Thanks for expressing your views,
    Last edited by Shadowman; 30th March 2012 at 02:35.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by another bob (here)

    Now I seem to be typing out this post, and my question for the readers of this thread would be: which one of these characters gets enlightened?
    That's an easy one : All of them!

    Part of enlightenment is not passing judgement on a given situation....

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Hey Tim,

    Great explanation in that opening post, nail on head for me.

    Could you elaborate on the circumstances surrounding your moment of awakening/enlightenment? I had an experience in Greece about a decade ago that pretty much matches your explanation exactly.

    Thanks for the thread.
    Last edited by David Hughes; 1st September 2018 at 07:58. Reason: Grammar etc

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by tyler durden (here)
    hey tim,
    i love your explanation in the opening post, nail on head for me....
    could i get you to elaborate on the circumstances surrounding your moment of awakening/enlightenment?
    i had an experience in greece about a decade ago that pretty much matches your explanation exactly.....
    ive never really talked about it in any great detail to anyone, largely because i have met precious few people in my walk of life
    who understand the truths you talk about in your opening post.....
    being dealt a hand like that in a world/reality like this carries alot of responsibility........
    thanks for the thread
    Hi Tyler,

    You’re most welcome and thanks for your sharing.

    I had my first glimpse of infinitely expanded pure awareness while meditating at at 8 yrs of age, it only lasted about an hour or so. I turned away from organized religion throughout my teens, it seemed to be based in guilt and fear which didn't resonate with me. I privately studied comparitive religions in my 20's ie most major faiths, before diving into different forms of meditation. Had an extended awakening at 28 which lasted a few weeks, and incorporated a number of phenomena associated with awakening.

    I’ve had several extended satori's since, each lasting a few to several weeks, as I learned to manage the associated effects on the body and mind which accompany this heightened state of awareness. Culminating in a satori from Sept 2010 to 5th Nov 2010 when the shift from pure awareness, or the witness state (Turiya/Satori), to the realization of Advaita/Self/Heaven/Nirvana/Turiyatita/Daigo or whatever else others wish to call it, happened. No words can do it justice, it is profound beyond expression. I shan’t go into details as to the phenomena that accompanied this final awakening, as I’m sure it’s different for each person, and I don’t want to confuse people further.

    Total immersion in this state means communication in duality would not be possible, but while “I” now express, as I put it, as both the ocean and the wave, the realization paradoxically remains. It is kind of like lucid dreaming, once you awaken within the dream, the dream, and your dream ego/character continue, but there is the ever present realization you are in reality the dreamer/Self.

    The boundless love and compassion that accompanies this awakening sadly does not confer the omniscient intellectual capacity to describe it or assist others to realize it. Like you I have throughout my journey attempted to share what happened with others, including some of the more interesting paranormal phenomena. I quickly learned to appreciate renowned psychiatrist Dr Mack’s definition of crazy :

    “It’s not knowing who to tell, or not to tell, what you’re experiencing.”

    Dr John E Mack is the Harvard professor of psychiatry, and pulitzer prize winning author who widely publicized the alien abduction phenomena.

    “If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?" - John 3:12

    "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." - Matt 7:6

    My aim in “coming out”, lol , as it were, is to help others understand;

    1 All religions in essence are the same ie Nirvana, Heaven, Mahasamadhi, Turiyatita, Enlightenment, etc are just different perspectives in the mind of the same realization in actuality.

    2 You don’t have to be special, or saintly, or chosen to awaken. Any human being can awaken, regardless of your background/race/intelligence/age/sex.

    3 You don’t need to pay anyone a single dollar to awaken.

    4 You don’t need to join any particular belief system or religion to awaken.

    5 You don’t need a middleman/priest, you can find out the truth directly.

    6 You don’t need special clothes, or postures, or diet, to awaken.

    7 You don’t need to read any particular book or learn any particular philosophy.

    8 You already have, and have always had, all you need for the journey home ie your Being. (lol, you are a human being, not a human doing, yes?)

    9 The awakened state is freedom from suffering, freedom from death and freedom to love "others" absolutely and unconditionally.

    10 You already are, and always have been, that which you seek. All separation is illusion.

    The main masters which have inspired my journey (in no particular order) are Jesus, Lao Tzu, Siddhartha Gautama, Osho, Ramana Maharshi, Nisargadatta, Sosan, Gangaji, Papaji and John Sherman. I'm no doubt forgetting many others.

    Lol, not to mention, Bugs Bunny, Winnie the Pooh, Jonathan Livingston Seagull and Chang (the great gull), Obi-Wan, Yoda, Kwai Chang Caine, Bashar, Seth, Bartholomew, Lazaris, Gary Larson, Homer Simpson, Maxwell Smart etc, etc, ad infinitum.

    Oh my, I must include that perfect archetype duo of the ego and God, Wile E Coyote - Genius (mind/ego/desire/repeated deaths) and The Road Runner (effortless/carefree/faster than light, lol)

    Tyler, I’ve probably gone beyond the scope of your question, but other readers may wish to know a little about my background so I’m sure you’ll forgive me for that,

    Namaste/Cheers/Kind Regards

    tim


    Below are some links to clarify satori and daigo for those interested.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satori

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daigo_%28Zen%29
    Last edited by Shadowman; 3rd April 2012 at 23:32.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Hi bob,

    You haven't yet responded to the question in the above post, reproduced below. I was not being facetious or disingenuous in asking. I am genuinely interested in how you would answer, preferably from your own direct experience, rather than utilizing quotes from other sources, much as I have attempted to do in the OP. You obviously have delved into the matter deeply, and an account of your own self realization, or whatever other terms you prefer to use, would be greatly appreciated as a valuable contribution to this thread. As Jenci suggested;

    If we didn't have people talking about their awakening and enlightenment, then many of us would be lost.........or worse, stuck where were are, thinking we had reached the destination."

    It may be that what have appeared to me as contradictory statements on your behalf, may just in fact be semantic misunderstandings on my behalf of your chosen contexts? Which is why I sort clarification on some of your statements ie Buddha's enlightenment on another planet, and whether you believed the same to be the case with Ramana and Nisargadatta. Or that all great beings come in with their lights on, so to speak.

    I look forward to reading your own account, should you choose to share it, and I trust you do not feel I am being contentious in seeking clarification to some of your statements. Your views are always appreciated. Here's Ramana's Q then,

    In short, in response to Ramana’s timeless question - Who am I, how would you answer bob?
    Last edited by Shadowman; 10th April 2012 at 02:52.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by tim (here)
    In short, in response to Ramana’s timeless question - Who am I, how would you answer bob?
    Hiya Tim!

    I have already answered the first time you asked.



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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Hi bob,

    The question was first posed in post #45 above and repeated in post #49. If you feel I posed it earlier could you say which post I asked and which post you responded, to save myself and others from re-reading through and guessing?

    Also you don't appear to have responded to my query in post #45 re Ramana and Nisargadatta. Do you say they, like Buddha, were enlightened on another planet, and arrived on this planet "with their lights on"? And do you feel that is the case with all those on this planet that are/were Self realized/Enlightened?

    Also, if there is a thread where you share your own personal journey, could you provide a link, it may help me to better understand where you are coming from, Cheers, tim

    PS No need to provide a link to your personal threads, your freetransliterations and photo gallery
    provide sufficient insight into your "perspective" and mode of expression. Given that we must use relative language to discuss the absolute there are bound to be apparent inconsistencies and misunderstandings.

    For instance it could be equally interpreted that in the absolute sense the "I" that asked "you" Ramana's "who am I" question was itself the answer "you" referred to as having been provided the "first" time "I" asked. Or perhaps you simply meant I had posed that question, either directly or indirectly in an earlier post or on another thread.

    But I was asking from a relative perspective as to how "bob" would answer, as you seem to feel you are in a position to dismiss or assess correctly whether another's claim to awakening is indeed valid, perhaps prematurely. For my part there is no such judgement of whether "you" are Self realized, even in light of some odd statements. And whilst it is of no consequence to a Buddha what you may or may not think, perhaps the compassion which moves us as Bodhisattva's to guide others, should also give us pause to choose our words carefully, so that at least we do not place further obstacles to those on the path ie

    "No human beings have ever attained enlightenment." - bob

    "You may believe you have some sense of this, but you don't. You can't." -bob

    "Buddha did not awaken here, but on another world" -bob

    "Argue for your limitations and, sure enough, they're yours.” - Richard Bach

    "My" experience is quite different. "I" propose that any human on this planet can realize the Self, whether it is referred to as Enlightenment, Self Realization, Turiyatita, Daigo, The Kingdom of Heaven, Nirvana, etc etc. And that those who have realized such freedom oftentimes have set
    down guidelines for that very purpose, such as Buddha's eightfold noble path or the eight limbs of yoga.

    As always I look forward to your views and response. Your comments are always welcome,

    Namaste
    tim
    Last edited by Shadowman; 13th April 2012 at 03:44.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by another bob (here)

    PS: Just one note on Buddhism, please reference the 3 Kayas -- the Nirmanakaya being the "emanation body" of Shakyamuni Buddha, which appeared to go through a long sadhana, only to demonstrate for the sake of truth the futility of that process of seeking and mental manipulation involved in grasping for that which one already is and has always been.

    From here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirmanakaya (I’ve added the associations in green)

    Schools have different ideas about what the three bodies are. From Mahayana Chinese we have;

    The Dharmakāya or Truth body which embodies the very principle of enlightenment and knows no limits or boundaries;
    = The Father / Brahman / Turiyatita/ Sat

    The Sambhogakāya or body of mutual enjoyment which is a body of bliss or clear light manifestation;
    = The Holy Spirit/ Turiya /Awareness/ Chit

    The Nirmānakāya or created body which manifests in time and space.
    = The Son / Jiva / Ego / Manifest form

    The Nirmaṇakāya is a physical body of a Buddha. An example would be Gautama Buddha's body.

    Conversely from Zen we have (my bolding);

    The Three Bodies of the Buddha from the point of view of Zen Buddhist thought are not to be taken as absolute, literal, or materialistic; they are expedient means that "are merely names or props" and only the play of light and shadow of the mind.

    Rinzai states it this way:

    Do you wish to be not different from the Buddhas and patriarchs? Then just do not look for anything outside. The pure light of your own heart [i.e., 心, mind] at this instant is the Dharmakaya Buddha in your own house. The non-differentiating light of your heart at this instant is the Sambhogakaya Buddha in your own house. The non-discriminating light of your own heart at this instant is the Nirmanakaya Buddha in your own house. This trinity of the Buddha's body is none other than he here before your eyes, listening to my expounding the Dharma.

    While it appears you are leaning more towards the Tibetan Buddhist interpretation, the passage above indicates the ability to recognize the truth within ourselves directly and is summed up by this;

    The Trikaya-doctrine and the Tathagatagarbha bring the transcendental within reach, by placing the transcendental within the plane of immanence.

    So, no need to go to another planet/dimension then, any human can "attain" Self Realization/Enlightenment, right here, right now. Moreover there are a variety of paths to suit different natures and temperaments.

    Namaste
    tim

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Hiya Tim!

    I can see you've got a bit of a thing for me, LOL!

    In any case, yes -- I clearly answered to your post #45. It seems you didn't hear me -- such hearing requires that one be very still.

    Certainly, one can awaken from identification with the body-mind organism, and be liberated in that sense, although that's primarily a mental attainment, and there still remains the matter of the character and the will, as I pointed out earlier. This is why I urge people I meet like yourself who claim some sort of special realization to get with a real live master. Book gurus can't kick ass, frankly speaking, and internet forums are definitely not the place where you are going to find what you really need to progress beyond mere self-confirmation.

    Moreover, awakening from the separate self-sense is not "enlightenment", nor is it usually enduring. Whatever has a beginning also has an end. It's awakening in the midst of the dream, but not from the dream itself. Essentially, the 3-D form cannot handle true enlightenment, cannot bear "reality" -- it would be like putting a million volts through an instrument which is only capable of conducting a few hundred. No human has ever been or will ever be enlightened -- that's for quite a few levels up the scale of manifestation. In fact, the whole human experience is itself of the same nature as a virtual reality game, a fiction as it were, but this cannot be understood while in the middle of the game. Our contract is very specific in that regard, otherwise we would not be able to take the game seriously, thus negating its purpose, which is to gather human experiences.

    Although I have had numerous realizations throughout my life that would be classified as satori -- some of which were even confirmed by the most respected Rinzai Zen Master in the US -- I didn't understand until an nde in 1984 that all of that was beside the point. It was simply awakening in the dream, which is actually neither here nor there in the scheme of things. I also learned during that experience that the force of naked reality itself would fry a human system instantly -- you simply could not bear it with your current wiring.

    I could go into a lot more detail, but I have found that this sort of discussion usually ends up going around and around -- until one actually sees how this thing works (and that's usually not until well into the afterlife), they'll be trapped in defending self-concepts which they believe to be reality, and so I'm refraining from further conversation in this regard, I simply do not wish to burden folks with more talking school ideas, and so I wish you all the best, Tim!


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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Hi bob,

    I can see you've got a bit of a thing for me, LOL!

    Well no, not you, just the glasses in your new avatar, lol. Actually I was just trying to clarify the apparent inconsistencies in your statements, for the benefit of other's reading the thread. But as I pointed out above, they're your limitations, you may treasure them as you like.

    When Enlightenment is realized in the sense defined in the OP, to chase after others to have the validity confirmed, would be sublimely ridiculous. There is a world of difference between Satori/Kensho/Turiya/Samadhi and Daigo/Turiyatita/Nirvana/Self Realization. As I have attempted to explain, there is no separate sense of self left, there is no doer left, but this must be realized (as in made real), not realized as in understood. This realization has nothing to do with beliefs, or for that matter mind.

    You are right about one thing though, discussion does end up going round and round, and you can't reason your way into Heaven. To transcend the deeply ingrained habits/sanskaras accumulated over lifetimes, practice is what counts, be it Bhakti/Karma/Jnana/Zazen/Vichara/Vipassana/Surat Shabd/Sufi Twirling/Islamic Surrender/Christian Contemplation/ etc, which is what this thread seeks to inspire by confirming Self Realization/Enlightenment IS possible, on this earth, in this body, here and now (not in some cosmic density/dimension/afterlife).

    Anyway, thanks for your contributions, should you ever feel inclined to comment further, you are always most welcome,

    Namaste/Kind Regards
    tim
    Last edited by Shadowman; 3rd May 2012 at 03:33.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    The finger pointing to the moon is not the moon but its helpful--- smiling

    Minds me of a story of an elightened master about to die and who offered his monks enlightenment.
    No one steped up to the plate.

    Here we at least have an opportunity on the thread to ask questions of one who is the state caled enlightenment.
    According to Dr David Hawkins only one in 5 million is enlightened but that now is a good time as the chances are 1000 time greater than the norm.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    The Kundalini guru the late Dr Goels explained fully that the wiring is being changed by Kundalini to accept a higer spiritual vibration.
    Dr David Hawkins points out that the highest level of enlightenment is the same vibration/frquency as Christ or The Buddha--- Jesus sweated blood --The Buddha in physical agony-- DH stated that the human body can not handle a higher frequency or yes they would be "fried"
    Both Eckhart Tolle and Hawkins have said that enlightenment on earth from a higher perspective would seem kindergarten, but it does seem complete.
    All say that on enlightenment here, thats the final incarnation on earth.
    Seems a worth aim to uncover the Truth.
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by tim (here)
    . As Jenci suggested;

    If we didn't have people talking about their awakening and enlightenment, then many of us would be lost.........or worse, stuck where were are, thinking we had reached the destination."
    Did I say that? Yes, I think I did. I meant it at the time. It really made sense to me. Not now though.

    This thread for me has been one of those which I have been contemplating for days. I really appreciate the exchange between Tim and Bob, although at first, I though 'what the bloody hell is going on here?'....then there was something else, something percolating away in the background; that sense that there is something I am missing.....there's something that I am realising but not sure how to put it in words.

    Quote Posted by another bob (here)
    Both self and Self need to be recognized as fantasies of interpretation on perception, with no inherent reality. Both fictions need to be penetrated for liberation to begin to dawn, and even that is not enough -- unless it is fully integrated and embodied in the way we act and relate in the world, it remains conceptual and rather impotent.


    Quote Posted by tim
    In short, in response to Ramana’s timeless question - Who am I, how would you answer bob?
    Who am I? Well the question takes me to the Self, where it has taken me for some time. The Self (capital S) being the Real, as opposed to the sense of separate self, me, the person.

    That was the Real but now it is not, that is what I am coming to realise. That the Self is not real either.

    ...and that is what, I think Bob is pointing to.

    I had never considered myself as having reached the state of enlightenment (if I had to put the process of my awakening into words linear fashion) but no one does get enlightened and no one ever did, this is what I have realised.

    So what now? .....it's completely blown my mind, that's for sure.

    Bob talked about avatars in a game. I watched the Matrix movie the other day and it was speaking to be very loudly about what all of this is really about.


    Jeanette

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    There was a Ramana quote where basically the enlightened are comfortable with the paradox of No SELF and SELF.
    Where Tim was questioning it was where bob was implying that no one got enlightened here--- they arrived with their light on so to speak.
    Words dont do it,
    There is no person or even Self left after enlightenment--- why???
    Its a condition, a state, where the former no longer exists-- self is replaced by the condition.
    Awareness was there before we came intio this world and is eternal.

    Obviously if any of this is inncorect Im happy to be corrected.
    I postulate a thought in the hope that it can be refined or corrected.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    My dreamlike form
    Appeared to dreamlike beings
    To show them the dreamlike path
    To dreamlike enlightenment.

    Gautama

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    There is no person or even Self left after enlightenment...

    There is no person or even Self, period.

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