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Thread: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

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    United States Avalon Member Sebastion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    You have noticed no doubt also that I have stated words are useless. I have thought more deeply about all of this, especially the language, words, between you and Anotherbob.

    From a certain point of view, I can see that even trying to discuss things this deep is a form of arrogance. For all that I have learned and experienced, I find that in many respects, I know nothing. I have made my peace with that and it has taken 25 years to do so.

    Your post is patronizing and dismissive, lacking of any true depth in spiritual experience. Therefore, I find no need to bandy words around or wangle over fine and coarse. I am bowing out and shall enjoy the silence. Be well......




    Quote Posted by tim (here)
    Forgive me please but there is something here that I would like to put forth for your consideration. You need not believe a word of it but at least consider it.

    Anotherbob has experienced at least two NDE's and hence gained tremendous knowledge as a result from direct experience and I would submit to you that they were out of body as well. -Seb #86

    Hi Seb,

    In the enlightened state of Self realization there is nothing to forgive, nothing to believe, and no separate I or mind to believe it.

    NDE’s are subjective experiences within duality, as are all experiences of life and death, or of being “inside” or “outside” of a body. As long as there appears to be a subjective thinking observer, separate from whatsoever is observed, be it physical objects, emotions, concepts, unimaginable light, time, space, God(s), demons, angels, buddha’s, ghosts, aliens, etc you have not realized the Self, and are caught in the illusions of maya/mind/samsara.

    No need to take mine, or bob’s, or anyone else’s word for it, do a little research, but remember, theory without practice does not lead to realization,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-enquiry

    My experiences all came as a result of my ability to astral/soul travel as I was born with that ability, as is everyone. My desire to find "god" became an all consuming passion at around 28 years of age. Earthly searching was fruitless for me so my only recourse was to develop my astral abilities beyond the astral to go beyond, hence soul travel.

    I must second what Anotherbob has stated because it was the truth as I found it to be. When I went into much higher spiritual regions, I was exposed to unimaginable Light, unimaginable raw energy and ultimately Love beyond imagination-absolute, complete, unconditioned. - Seb #86

    "Life essence" of each person (is) "radiantly luminous" and "as indestructible as a diamond".

    How could that possibly be known as a truth if it was not an awareness which resulted from an out of body state? I would proffer to you that one has to be out of the body and experience yourself as being radiantly luminous to fully understand the implications - Seb #96


    Time, mind and space are aspects of duality/maya. The Self transcends time, mind and space. Hence it neither comes nor goes anywhere, begins nor ends, seeks nor questions, is here nor there. The Self cannot be measured or cognized in duality, nor can it be “known” or “perceived” by the ego or mind. It is neither light nor darkness, nor is it manifest energy at any point on the electromagnetic spectrum, raw or otherwise.

    Whilst still in duality it is possible to perceive a manifest form of God as an unimaginable light, unimaginable raw energy, absolute love etc, but this is not the Self, which can only be realized, not perceived.

    Who is to say that the spirit cannot leave the body to remember?/ re-experience itself as pure essence while retaining a body in 3d? -Seb #98

    Lol, bob apparently. But seriously, enlightenment or Self realization does not so much require leaving the 3d body, as awakening to the fact that you never were “in” the body, or “in” time, or “in” space, or more particularly “in” the mind. Thanks for your thoughtful comments, humility and kindness Sebastion,

    Namaste,
    tim


    Both self and Self are purely mental constructs, cognitive obscurations, figments of this human dream. - bob #99

    Hi bob,

    You appear to be confusing the finger pointing at the moon with the moon itself, so to speak. While the word Self is a mental construct, that which it is indicating towards is not, as is indicated by all realized beings so far quoted on this thread.

    Thanks again though for your input into this thread, you are obviously a talented and eloquent writer and “I” have immensely enjoyed your sense of humour, in this and other threads. Feel free to change your mind at any point, your comments are always welcome, even if we appear to sometimes be at odds,

    Namaste,
    tim
    Last edited by Sebastion; 27th April 2012 at 11:05.

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    Australia Avalon Member realitycorrodes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Apologies - have not bothered to read 6 pages worth.

    If the original comment was true who is it that thinks they are separately writing such "nonsense" and to who do they think they are writing such "nonsense" or more importantly "WHY".

    Sounds like "mind control propaganda" designed to make people passively accept the killing, suffering, injustice that goes on all around us!

    For goodness sake!

    To whoever wrote such nonsense, step into a burning fire and demonstrate your oneness with the flames - perhaps then you will genuinely become permanently one with whatever it is you are speaking about!

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    Avalon Member Shadowman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    1. I am Enlightened to the Fact that I have a long way to go to become Enlightened... if that is even possible for a person even after a thousand life times. 2. Anyone who says they are Enlightened is speaking from complete Ego and thus proves they are not.
    - GoodeTXSG #87


    Hi GoodeTXSG/Corey,

    1. The I that says this is the ego created by/within the mind. You need not wait 1000 lifetimes or even one lifetime to investigate thoroughly whether it is real or transient. All thoughts are transient phenomena, that which is aware of all thoughts is neither transient nor a phenomena. You are that . You have always been that . You will always be that.

    2. Not all who become enlightened teach. But of those that do teach, most do speak of their awakening/enlightenment, and the way to it. There are always those who prematurely make the claim, but it would be unwise to “throw out the baby with the bathwater”.

    In the suttapitaka, the Buddhist canon as preserved in the Theravada-tradition, a number of texts can be found in which the Buddha tells about his own awakening. In the Vanapattha Sutta (Majjhima, chapter 17) the Buddha describes life in the jungle, and the attainment of awakening.

    According to a story in the Āyācana Sutta (Samyutta Nikaya VI.1) — a scripture found in the Pāli and other canons — immediately after his awakening, the Buddha debated whether or not he should teach the Dharma to others. He was concerned that humans were so overpowered by ignorance, greed and hatred that they could never recognise the path, which is subtle, deep and hard to grasp. However, in the story, Brahmā Sahampati convinced him, arguing that at least some will understand it. The Buddha relented, and agreed to teach.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi#c...namoli1995_2-0
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddha#Enlightenment




    More recent examples of documented awakening/enlightenment in their own words are by Ramana Maharshi, Osho and Nisargadatta Maharaj.

    Thankyou for your comments and welcome to the thread,

    Kind Regards/Namaste
    tim
    Last edited by Shadowman; 28th April 2012 at 01:04.

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    Avalon Member Shadowman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    1. Isn't it so that without the 'I' the experience of separation and so the experience we have is impossible? We would be back in the source immediately.
    It is thanks to the 'I' that we can experience this dream. So maybe it is not about sending it on a permanent vacation, but learning how to get the 'I' in proportion, to a point were the 'I' understands it's merely a tool to have this experience and nothing more.

    2. Giving the 'I' some appreciation for it's existence would take away a big part of the feeling that one would like to send it on a permanent vacation .
    - Wakytweaky #71

    Hi Wakytweaky,

    Welcome to the thread and thankyou for your input.

    1. Yes, it is the thinking “I” that creates the illusion of separation. In actuality you have never, and will never, be separate from the source. It is also correct that the subjective thinking I gives rise to the experience/dream of duality, along with identification with a body/mind.

    2. You may appreciate the thinking “I” if you wish, not for it’s existence though, for it does not exist (it is simply an appearance), and doing so may make life a little easier in the dream, at least temporarily. But you will still be subject to all that goes along with dreaming ie sickness, death, loss of loved ones, pleasure, pain and Justin Bieber. What makes the dream enticing is that the prison is both beautiful and ugly, cruel and kind, a tragedy and a comedy.

    The downside of the I are the defilements of the mind which obscure your true nature, which is intrinsically loving. These defilements come about as a result of desiring and competing for the “positive” aspects of the dream, and aversion to the “negative” aspects of the dream. They include fear, anger, hatred, greed, attachment, envy and delusion/ignorance. They result in violence, war, poverty, cruelty, selfishness, sociopathy, psychopathy, etc.

    One simplistic way of looking at it is this, there are two branch’s of spirituality, one is “You create your own reality” (which in this context really means creating a better dream) of which there are many current variants - the other branch is how to awaken from the dream, which is a much tougher gig, but with an infinitely better outcome. Of the latter branch, the techniques employed can largely be categorized into two paths or ways, the path of Love (devotion/action/service) and the path of Knowledge or Wisdom (enquiry/investigation/meditation). On the path of Love or selflessness the “mine” disappears, on the path of Knowledge the little I disappears. Both lead to Self Realization/Awakening/Enlightenment.

    As long as you feel that you are enjoying the dream, by all means go ahead.
    However the moment you have a “glimpse of Awakening” or a “tongue tip taste of the Tao” miracles abound and the ego dream pales in comparison, you stop becoming/seeking and start BEING. Then, wherever you are, heaven IS, right HERE right NOW...






    This is the true meaning of the Greek word apocalypse - the revealing of that which is transcendent, the Self or God. Not as something to be perceived as a separate entity, but realized as your own true being, your true Self.

    Origin:
    1125–75; Middle English < Late Latin apocalypsis < Greek apokálypsis revelation, equivalent to apokalýp ( tein ) to uncover, reveal ( apo- apo- + kalýptein to cover, conceal) + -sis -sis

    Kind Regards/Namaste
    tim

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    I know of no one whos free of desire,myself included,ive met a lot of practitioners over many years on the Buddhist path from many different traditions.So instead of getting rid of desire maybe simple discernment is the key,after all the Buddhas desire was to make all people equal to him,and thats a beautiful desire.In my opinion even without burning up ones karma,even with illusions still intact we can attain the Way through practise.After all we have the same nature.....regards
    - Shijo. #88


    Hi Shijo,

    Likes and dislikes, or desires and aversions, belong to the body/mind/ego. As long as you identify with what you are not ie the body/mind/ego, desires and duality are a by product or consequence. Thoughts become habits, habits become behaviour, and behaviour becomes ingrained through repetition.

    But I am suggesting that you are the Self, which is free from all desires and illusions. True discernment is realizing you are Self Existent Blissful Awareness, and not identifying with anything that appears within that field/ocean/sky of awareness.

    Nirvana, freedom from suffering and delusion, is also freedom from all desire, so while to others Buddha may have appeared to act from a benevolent desire to free them from delusion, from his “point of view” “he” does not act at all -

    Whoever says that the Tathagata goes or comes, sits or lies down, he does not understand the meaning of my teaching. -Diamond Sutra

    Vipassana, just sitting in awareness, with the breath entering and leaving the nostrils as a focus point, is an excellent practice or way. So simple, so direct, so powerful. No books, no philosophies, no boggling paradoxes, just you and your breath, and hey, we all breathe right? (except for the Tathagata, lol)

    You are quite right in saying we all have the same nature, the King pretending to be a beggar is still in reality the King,

    Namaste/Kind Regards
    tim

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  11. Link to Post #106
    Netherlands Avalon Member Eram's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by tim (here)
    1. Isn't it so that without the 'I' the experience of separation and so the experience we have is impossible? We would be back in the source immediately.
    It is thanks to the 'I' that we can experience this dream. So maybe it is not about sending it on a permanent vacation, but learning how to get the 'I' in proportion, to a point were the 'I' understands it's merely a tool to have this experience and nothing more.

    2. Giving the 'I' some appreciation for it's existence would take away a big part of the feeling that one would like to send it on a permanent vacation .
    - Wakytweaky #71

    Hi Wakytweaky,

    Welcome to the thread and thank you for your input.

    2. You may appreciate the thinking “I” if you wish, not for it’s existence though, for it does not exist (it is simply an appearance), and doing so may make life a little easier in the dream, at least temporarily. But you will still be subject to all that goes along with dreaming ie sickness, death, loss of loved ones, pleasure, pain and Justin Bieber. What makes the dream enticing is that the prison is both beautiful and ugly, cruel and kind, a tragedy and a comedy.

    Kind Regards/Namaste
    tim
    Hi Tim,

    And thank you for your explanation and the beautiful songs.

    There are things that I will have to chew on. Especially the "mine' and "little I" which are new concepts for me.

    There is one thing I disagree on though, or maybe there is a bit confusion of what I meant when I said: The I is there to appreciate.

    It is my understanding that God created the Universe with the purpose of knowing himself existentially in all it's aspects. The beauty and the Ugly, the sane and the insane, the under and the above.
    Therefore he created the 'I' to experience all this in the dream of the Universe.
    I may be wrong, but when the 'I' does not exist any longer, and I mean all of it. It would be impossible to experience all those things. I believe it would be impossible to even look outside your eyes and see the world. You would only see light. better even.... your body would cease to exist, because this is also a part of that 'I'.

    I do believe that the enlightenment process you talk about is about quitting identifying with lots of the aspects of the experience in this Universe.
    You stop identifying with anger, fear, a wish to do something, emotions, thoughts etc. etc. This will give you an experience of great relief and and love and a bigger identification with a truer part of the self.

    The dream of the experience of life becomes clearer.

    Now that you had this experience you call enlightenment, you can experience all the aspects of life in this Universe here on earth, but without the identification with them you always did.

    The 'I' is still there, but not as dominant as it was.

    This is great!!!

    celebrate !!
    Last edited by Eram; 28th April 2012 at 15:31.

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    United States Unsubscribed wynderer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Tim --but it IS individual -- because an individual [you] is writing about it as an individual experience

    i have no problem w/being one little bit of individualized consciousness, occasionally going Home to what/where you describe so well in your post

    it's a gift to be given that spark of individuation, of individuality -- it's a great big Universe , & i'm looking forward to continuing to experience it as a individual [after i get away from this rather dark planet]-- i already know that i am part of the whole, the Oneness

    Quote Posted by tim (here)
    This is an account of the direct experience of awakening.

    What can be said, or written, of itself cannot reveal the truth.

    Words and language are themselves an illusory tool, an aspect of the relative dream, and can only indicate or hint towards the totality, or reality, or that which is.

    Upon the moment of awakening not only does the illusion of the relative self or ego vanish like a shadow exposed to light, but all “other” egos, or relative selves, disappear. All separation disappears, and the absolute Self is realized. All is then enlightened and whole, for there never really were separate entities that could become individually enlightened. There then is no relative doer, nor even an absolute doer, for all doing implies separation. Or something to do, or somewhere to go. And not just other humans, but the entire creation is enlightened and whole.

    Now nothing can be judged, or observed, or transcended, as there is no separate observer, nor separate objects observed, nor even separate observing.

    Here even the concept of pure awareness, the witness, unidentified with that which is observed, has dissolved into the totality. Herein lies the meaning of samsara is nirvana. The slightest separation into observer, observed and observing and samsara appears. When observer, observed and observing is an undifferentiated whole, the Self is self evident, and far more evident, than the illusory ego self.

    All that is, then is, as it really is, here descriptions do not apply.

    Now, what is missing from the above description of the direct experience of enlightenment?

    It is the pronoun, I, for in truth there is no I, either relatively or absolutely. I implies a separation from totality, as the first person singular. Whereas the adjective Self, implies being the same throughout, as the self evident united reality/totality/all that is, and is more appropriate at hinting towards the truth.

    You are in reality this Self, all else is illusion.
    Relatively, this is the end of suffering. This is the beginning of endless bliss.
    Absolutely, all suffering is unreal. Only the blissful Self is real.
    This is the eternal Truth.

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    Avalon Member Shadowman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    From a certain point of view, I can see that even trying to discuss things this deep is a form of arrogance. For all that I have learned and experienced, I find that in many respects, I know nothing. I have made my peace with that and it has taken 25 years to do so.

    Your post is patronizing and dismissive, lacking of any true depth in spiritual experience. Therefore, I find no need to bandy words around or wangle over fine and coarse. I am bowing out and shall enjoy the silence. Be well......
    -Seb # 101


    Hi Seb,

    I was not so much dismissing your OBE as simply pointing out that it was still an experience in duality, at least in the way that it was described when you said;

    “When I went into much higher spiritual regions, I was exposed to unimaginable Light, unimaginable raw energy and ultimately Love beyond imagination” - #86

    But you are right, the difference may just be in semantics. The description you offered earlier resonated more clearly,

    ”I understand completely what you have said and agree deeply. But I have refrained until now, for my own reasons, to mention that I merged with the Heart of the One, 24 years ago.” - #63 Unravelling Thread

    You are probably familiar with the expression “If you meet the Buddha on the road, then kill him”, which just means any objective form, no matter how divine or dazzling, is not your true Self. That’s all I was suggesting, I was not attempting to devalue what was clearly a profound experience for you. Prior to awakening I also had some unusual paranormal experiences in duality, which were taken as signposts that I was on the "right track" ( and some that were just plain weird, lol).

    Ramana Maharshi's take on this may also be helpful;

    16. What are the factors to be kept in view in dhyana?

    It is important for one who is established in his Self (atma
    nishta) to see that he does not swerve in the least from this
    absorption. By swerving from his true nature he may see
    before him bright effulgences, etc., or hear (unusual) sounds
    or regard as real the visions of gods appearing within or
    outside himself. He should not be deceived by these and
    forget himself. - Ramana Maharshi


    In post #98 you mentioned,

    “It has been stated many times on this forum that we are spiritual beings having a human experience. Spirit comes into the body to give it life. Spirit exits the body for the last time and the body is dead.”

    So, in that light, enjoy the following Glastonbury Live version of the song “Spirit”, "...it ain't why why why why why, it just IS". Anyway thanks for your comments, and enjoy the silence. If you ever change your mind your comments are always welcome,



    Namaste/With Love
    tim
    Last edited by Shadowman; 30th April 2012 at 01:14.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    1. If the original comment was true who is it that thinks they are separately writing such "nonsense" and to who do they think they are writing such "nonsense" or more importantly "WHY".

    2. Sounds like "mind control propaganda" designed to make people passively accept the killing, suffering, injustice that goes on all around us!

    For goodness sake!

    3. To whoever wrote such nonsense, step into a burning fire and demonstrate your oneness with the flames - perhaps then you will genuinely become permanently one with whatever it is you are speaking about!
    -realitycorrodes #102



    Hi realitycorrodes,

    What odd comments for someone with such exquisite taste in non sense*;

    To see a world in a grain of sand
    Heaven in a wild flower
    To hold infinity in the palm of your hand
    And Eternity in an hour
    - William Blake


    Whoever says that the Tathagata goes or comes, sits or lies down, he does not understand the meaning of my teaching. - Buddha

    Foxes have holes and birds have their nests, but the son of man has nowhere to lay his head and rest. - Jesus


    1. Thinking, writing, writer and reader are not separate in the “non sense”* state. As stated in the OP there is, in reality, no separate doer. The question itself wrongly asserts separation exists, where it does not. In the enlightened non dual state there is no why, there is only loving awareness, which just IS, see song above.

    (*“non sense” here means - beyond the 5 physical senses and the sixth sense of mind ie the state of pure awareness)

    2. Quite the opposite. Killing, suffering and injustice stem from delusion ie identification with limited forms ie body/mind/race/religion/class/species/gender. Genuine unconditional love arises from the realization that you are Self/God/All That Is. As all, you treat all with boundless love and compassion, at least from the point of view of “others”.

    For those that are still in subject/object existence, ethical and moral harmony is promoted by statement’s such as,

    Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

    Love God, and love one another.

    What goes around, comes around.

    In this world
    Hate never yet dispelled hate.
    Only love dispels hate.
    This is the law,
    Ancient and inexhaustible.

    Let go of anger.
    Let go of pride.
    When you are bound by nothing
    You go beyond sorrow.


    3. As part of the all, the body is treated with kindness. Oneness is expressed with wisdom, kindness, compassion, forgiveness, humility, honesty, sacrifice, patience, humour, joy, gentleness, and unconditional love, not with foolishness.

    Self Realization is abundantly self evident and eternal, it requires neither demonstration nor confirmation.

    Thankyou for your comments and welcome realitycorrodes. A more complete reading of the thread may give further insights should you feel so inclined,

    Cheers/Namaste
    tim
    Last edited by Shadowman; 30th April 2012 at 01:08.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Is there another word for irony?

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by another bob (here)
    on the lighter side . . .


    Priceless!

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Coming from the far side here, what if...The name of the game is for Consciousness to purposely lose itself in the farthest reaches of it's own Mind, the deep wilderness. The only possible way back is a deeply implanted homing beacon, so to speak. Some aspects of Consciousness may discover this immediately and head right on back home, some may wander aimlessly for eons. I suspect we're in the latter group.

    Either way, in this case there is no such thing as enlightenment. There is only a noticing, and then a following of this beacon as we begin to dimly comprehend it's meaning. We begin following it only at that magical point of finally realizing we have nothing else to turn to. Absolutely nothing.

    This beacon is nothing but the memory of who we truly are. As we erratically home in, we can always continue the game and stop comfortably at any point, fooling ourselves that we are home. Or we can order Scotty to engage warp nine and end it. Game over.

    Then it's story time.(LOL)

    Cheers,
    Fred - #74


    Hi Fred,

    Interesting choice of terms. A beacon is a guiding light.

    En* light en men t is both the light (awareness) in "hu"* mans, and a description of the “arrival home”. You say there is no such thing as enlightenment. What word would you use to describe Consciousness that has “returned home”? Or one who has
    "re membered" who they truly are?

    I certainly agree people can fool themselves that they are home before they are, but this does not preclude the possibility that others do complete the journey “home”.

    Sadhana/Meditation/Self Enquiry/Devotion are simply ways to accelerate (warp nine, lol) the journey/process. Thanks for your comments and welcome,

    Cheers,
    tim

    * en - a prefix occurring originally in loanwords from French and productive in English on this model, forming verbs with the general sense “to cause (a person or thing) to be in” the place, condition, or state named by the stem.

    * Hu - or Huwa is a name for God in Sufism. Literally: He. God.

    In Sufism Hu or Huwa is the pronoun used with Allah or God, and is used as a name of God. Allah Hu means "God, Just He!" In Arabic Allah means God and with Hu, as an intensive added to Allah, means "God himself." Hu is also found in the Islamic credo La Ilaha Ila Allah Hu: "There is no God but Allah," or in Sufi interpretation "There is no reality, except God", or in La Ilaha Ila Huwa meaning "There is no god but He"

    Non-Muslims may speculate that the pronoun when used by the Sufi (and Muslim) is simply a shorter form of the Hebrew Tetragrammaton due to the similarities between Sura Al-Ikhlas 112:1 in the Quran [3] and Deuteronomy 6:4 in the Hebrew Bible.

    *man - Skt. manuh, Avestan manu-, O.C.S. mozi, Rus. muzh "man, male"). Sometimes connected to root men- "to think" (see mind)
    Last edited by Shadowman; 30th April 2012 at 05:11.

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  23. Link to Post #113
    Avalon Member Shadowman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Insha’Allah (God willing), a response will be offered to the first comment/question of each poster, in due course.

    Due to time restraints and circumstances, subsequent comments and questions may or may not receive a response. Preference will be given to authentic enquiries.

    The more heartfelt the first question/comment, the more earnest the seeker, the greater the likelihood of deriving benefit.

    Your first question/comment should cover that which you consider to be of paramount importance to your own awakening/enlightenment.

    One purpose of this thread is to inspire you to move into silence/stillness, to transcend the mind, whereupon Self Realization/Enlightenment is self evident,

    Namaste/With Love
    tim

    "The more you talk about it, the more you think about it, the further you are from it" - Sosan, Hsin Hsin Ming

    "Be still, and know that I am God" - Psalms 46:10

    "Those who know, do not speak. Those who speak, do not know." -Lao Tzu

    One should gradually, gradually attain quietude with
    the intellect (buddhi) held steadfast and the mind sunk in the
    Self, allowing no thought to arise. - Bhagavad Gita 6:25


    23. Is it any use reading books for those who long for release?

    All the texts say that in order to gain release one should
    render the mind quiescent; therefore their conclusive teaching
    is that the mind should be rendered quiescent; once this has
    been understood there is no need for endless reading. In order
    to quieten the mind one has only to inquire within oneself
    what one’s Self is; how could this search be done in books?
    One should know one’s Self with one’s own eye of wisdom.
    The Self is within the five sheaths; but books are outside them.
    Since the Self has to be inquired into by discarding the five
    sheaths, it is futile to search for it in books. - Ramana Maharshi


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hsin_Hsin_Ming
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao_Te_Ching
    Last edited by Shadowman; 6th May 2012 at 04:07.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by Beren (here)
    Quote Posted by meeradas (here)
    Quote Posted by markpierre (here)
    So now that you know all about it, is it attractive enough? What would you exchange for that?
    Ev'rything.
    This reminds me of a story from Christ about a man who sells everything in order to buy this property where he found the treasure...
    This is our true treasure and that`s what was meant when spoken about building your treasure in heaven...
    Hi Beren,

    Spot on. We must relinquish our identification with all that we are not, body, thoughts, concepts, ego, person, emotions, pains, pleasures (ie sell everything), in order to realize the immortal treasure that we are - Love, Awareness, uncaused Bliss,

    Thank you for your insights, and welcome,

    "Love, love and see what happens" - Brilliant,
    (You throw your love to all the strangers, and caution to the wind...)

    Namaste,
    tim

    "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.
    - Jesus Matt 6:19

    “It takes love over gold, and mind over matter, to do what you do that you must,
    When the things that you hold, can fall and be shattered, or run through your fingers like dust...” - Mark Knopfler


    "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find;
    knock and the door will be opened to you...” - Jesus Matt 7:7

    "And you go dancing through doorways, just to see what you will find,
    leaving nothing to interfere, with the crazy balance of your (M)mind..." -Mark Knopfler


    Last edited by Shadowman; 5th May 2012 at 23:58.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by meeradas (here)
    Quote Posted by markpierre (here)
    So now that you know all about it, is it attractive enough? What would you exchange for that?
    Ev'rything.
    Hi Meeradas,

    To one of few words, pregnant with meaning and wisdom, I shall simply respond - indeed,

    With Love,
    tim

    'A single word is sufficient to reveal the truth.' - Shin-hut, Open Secret, Wei Wu Wei

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/13033759/Open-Secret-Wei-Wu-Wei
    Last edited by Shadowman; 2nd May 2012 at 00:21.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by Godiam (here)
    Nothing Real Can Be Threatened,
    Nothing Unreal Exists!
    Therein Lies The Peace Of GOD!!

    From A Course In Miracles!

    HUGS...........Godiam
    Hi Godiam/Luke,

    Big hugs to you my friend, sorry for the delay, choose your cat, lol,

    With Love,
    tim



    Last edited by Shadowman; 2nd May 2012 at 00:18.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by jorr lundstrom (here)
    This is a picture taken of an event................


    Endless, nah........
    Eternal, well.........
    All is well
    Jorr
    Hi Jorr,

    Thanks for your insight and the beautiful song "Hunting high and low".
    You are an enigma wrapped in a riddle sporting feathers and a beak, min bror, .

    Every day is a good day
    tim

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    At what point dose a tiger in nature with out man’s words to ponder, become enlightened? I am "TIGER"

    Enlightened tiger? What is enlightened in nature that needs enlightened that simply accepts being the energy that is. Pure tiger, pure energy flower, pure energy a tree, bug, bird, air, mineral, the forming of energy or all things, except man with his “I have to be enlightened to be the energy I think I see. “ tiger asks another tiger what is it to be a tiger? Man only needs to be something--- even enlightened is better than just being a man.

    What in nature is not enlightened of its energy of being energy in the form it has manifested itself in at the moment. Dose a baby need to be enlightened to be birthed into this world, then why dose it need enlightenment to leave? Pure coming in pure going out energy in its being to be. A peace of source.

    A spark of life in 3D, a spark of “is” in 7D just different levels of dimensions same pure energy, just different expressions. Enlightened or not ---will not effect this energy no matter how hard you think you rap your head around the word enlightenment. Its all vanity for man, Nature has not suffered this insanity of being just man +.

    It might be because of all this BLA, BLA, BLA. Much speaking instead of being man. Tower of babble ring any bells for anyone? The Gods didn’t say “let us go down and confound the speaking of nature,”--- only men. “Why” ? because they were afraid what we would become if we were allowed to become just (MEN). Greater than even the Gods. Who are stuck in 4D. MEN free will to move between dementions and Gods and prison keepers under any lable. shhhh its a secret! oooops
    :thumb: Paintings that I have created over the last 35 years >Gallery http://projectavalon.net/forum4/album.php?albumid=587< or here at ACC http://www.ashtarcommandcrew.net/gro...-or-collection

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by East Sun (here)
    "God brings good and evil" is stated in the OT somewhere. But after a lifetime of searching I now believe that we were created by the "gods" mentioned in the OT and Sumerian tablets and other places.

    But what created them and all of creation. There's no way of knowing that. If we spoke with the advanced celestial ancestors they might have some idea, or not, as even they can not know endless space and time. imo.

    There is evil in existence and may be a creation of our consciousness or just inevitable which is easy to see. Our concern is to end it to the extent that we can, or at least give it our best shot.

    P.S. Or maybe nothing was created and everything came about and comes about through an always-was force that just set off reproduction and cycles in everything. And one somewhat intelligent group set itself up as being superior to other groups and so it goes on with life teeming is unending space.
    Hi East Sun,

    See my post #1671 on Chris’s enlightenment thread, as well as gripreapers excellent post’s on this thread #20 and #22.

    As long as you identify with the body/mind dualistic concepts like good and evil give rise to desire and fear. It is like the old snake/rope adage referred to by Ramana below. If you identify with “appearances” ie the body/mind (or snake) you are vulnerable and prone to fear. If you realize yourself as the totality of Pure being/Awareness, whose very nature is Love, you break the “bonds” of illusion.

    Thoughts are like the individual frames in a movie which create the illusion of duality. Which is why when the mind becomes quiescent the illusory “movie” of duality stops, and the ever present screen is revealed; or if you prefer the the clear light of the projector, unfiltered/undistorted by the film (mind), is revealed;


    2. If I am none of these, then Who am I?

    After negating all of the above mentioned as ‘not this’,
    ‘not this’, that Awareness which alone remains — that I am.

    3. What is the nature of Awareness?

    The nature of Awareness is Existence-Consciousness-Bliss.

    4. When will the realization of the Self be gained?

    When the world which is what-is-seen has been removed,
    there will be realization of the Self which is the seer.

    5. Will there not be realization of the Self even while the
    world is there (taken as real)?

    There will not be.

    6. Why?

    The seer and the object seen are like the rope and the
    snake. Just as the knowledge of the rope which is the substrate
    will not arise unless the false knowledge of the illusory
    serpent goes, so the realization of the Self which is the
    substrate will not be gained unless the belief that the world
    is real is removed.

    7. When will the world which is the object seen be removed?

    When the mind, which is the cause of all cognition and of
    all actions, becomes quiescent, the world will disappear. - Ramana Maharshi

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by gripreaper (here)
    Quote Posted by RedeZra (here)
    fallen spirits and demons are as real as the angels and us

    they fell as low as they were high in the spiritual hierarchy
    Hierarchical power structures, also known as pyramid schemes, are set up so that all of the wealth and resources flow to the few at the top, while those at the bottom struggle and compete for the scarcity which is implicit in such a design. Also implicit in this design, is that those who are competing with their brethren need to adopt the mandates of those at the top of the pyramid, and surrender their will and power to them.

    To say that the spiritual realms are set up hierarchically, is derived from the same elite power mongers who wrote such a patriarchal pyramid into their instruction book, the bible, at the Roman Elite Council of Nicaea, and designed it to propagate their hierarchical power pyramid, which has nothing to do with spirituality, enlightenment, or unity with the divine in all things.

    Fallen angels and spirits means that these souls fell from the top of the power pyramid and needed to subjugate themselves to those at the top in order to redeem their place in the hierarchy? I think not. BOTH polarities of light and dark, Yin and Yang, positive and negative, male and female, left and right etc. are part of the universal matrix of all things and to judge such energies as "evil" and separate only serves the patriarchal structure which has spent eon's trying to sell us that the opposite is to be severed from the whole and that the higher dimensions are hierarchical.

    That is a lie in my opinion, and I'm not afraid to expose it for what it is
    Hi gripreaper,

    Thanks for your excellent contributions to this thread, both as quoted above and in your post #22. Your insights and wisdom are most welcome.

    Nisargadatta's view quoted below confirms that while there are levels of understanding in the mind or consciousness,
    there are no levels in Pure Awareness or Being, which also correspond's to the Taoist "Pu";

    Q: Are there levels of awareness?
    M: There are levels in consciousness, but not in awareness. It is of one block, homogeneous. Its reflection in the mind is love and understanding. There are levels of clarity in understanding and intensity in love, but not in their source. The source is simple and single, but its gifts are infinite. Only do not take the gifts for the source. Realize yourself as the source and not as the river; that is all. - Nisargadatta, I am that


    Pu (simplified Chinese: 朴; traditional Chinese: 樸; pinyin: pǔ, pú; Wade–Giles: p'u; lit. "uncut wood") is translated "uncarved block", "unhewn log", or "simplicity". It is a metaphor for the state of wu wei (無爲) and the principle of jian (儉). It represents a passive state of receptiveness. Pu is a symbol for a state of pure potential and perception without prejudice. In this state, Taoists believe everything is seen as it is, without preconceptions or illusion.

    Pu is usually seen as keeping oneself in the primordial state of tao. It is believed to be the true nature of the mind, unburdened by knowledge or experiences. In the state of pu, there is no right or wrong, beautiful or ugly. There is only pure experience, or awareness, free from learned labels and definitions. It is this state of being that is the goal of following wu wei.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism#Wu_wei

    Kind Regards/Namaste
    tim
    Last edited by Shadowman; 4th May 2012 at 08:58.

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