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Thread: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

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    Avalon Member Shadowman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Hello Eram,

    Thankyou for your pragmatic observations. It is simple, theoretically. It is the mind/thoughts/ego which tries to complicate things. So in challenging the absolute reality of thoughts/beliefs we are in effect challenging the existence/reality of the ego. Those thoughts previously taken as "facts", which may result in suffering, are upon close examination found to be just thoughts, which need not be identified with (including the "I am the body" thought)

    Katie's Work shares similarities with Buddha's four noble truths and Ramana's Self enquiry. Adyashanti was possibly referring to the increasingly complex systems of philosophy and religion which lead one further into the machinations of the mind, rather than the attainment of evanescence...

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/evanescence?s=t

    "Later Sri Bhagavan continued: The intricate maze of philosophy of different schools is said to clarify matters and reveal the Truth. But in fact they create confusion where no confusion need exist. To understand anything there must be the Self. The Self is obvious. Why not remain as the Self? What need to explain the non-self?" - Ramana Maharshi

    Mr. W. J.: When we read about it we read it intellectually. But it is all too remote. When we see you in body we are brought nearer to Reality and it gives us courage to bring our knowledge into our everyday life. If one realised the Self and acted up to it in the West, one would be locked up in a lunatic asylum. (Laughter.)

    M.: You will be locking yourself in. Because the world is mad, considers you mad. Where is the lunatic asylum if it is not within. You will not be in it, but it will be in you. (Laughter). Uncertainties, doubts and fears are natural to everyone until the Self is realised. They are inseparable from the ego, rather they are the ego.

    D.: How are they to disappear?

    M.: They are the ego. If the ego goes they go with it. The ego is itself unreal. What is the ego? Enquire. The body is insentient and cannot say ‘I’ . The Self is pure consciousness and non-dual. It cannot say ‘I’ . No one says, ‘I’ in sleep. What is the ego then? It is something intermediate between the inert body and the Self. It has no locus standi. If sought for it vanishes like a ghost. You see, a man imagines that there is something by his side in darkness; it may be some dark object. If he looks closely the ghost is not to be seen, but some dark object which he could identify as a tree or a post, etc. If he does not look closely the ghost strikes terror in the person. All that is required is only to look closely and the ghost vanishes. The ghost was never there. So also with the ego. It is an intangible link between the body and Pure Consciousness. It is not real. So long as one does not look closely it continues to give trouble. But when one looks for it, it is found not to exist. - Ramana Maharshi


    You are making excellent progress Eram, and yes, lol, it does lead "somewhere"... beautiful beyond description;





    With Love
    tim
    Last edited by Shadowman; 13th July 2013 at 11:55.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by Tarka the Duck (here)
    Hello Tim

    Gotta ask...so can you walk through walls, know the mind of every sentient being, manipulate matter, produce emanations etc? I have heard that enlightened beings are able to do such things. That would be really nifty!!
    Hello again Kathie,

    Here is another very worthwhile perspective on the attainment of supernatural powers or Siddhi's;

    There is a legend that a group of rishis once lived in the Daruka forest together, practising rites by which they acquired supernatural powers. By the same means they hoped to attain final liberation. In this, however, they were mistaken, for action can only result in action, not in the cessation of action; rites can produce powers but not the peace of liberation which is beyond rites and powers and all forms of action. Siva determined to convince them of their error and therefore appeared before them as a wandering sadhu. Together with him came Vishnu in the form of a beautiful lady. All the rishis were smitten with love for this lady and thereby their equilibrium was disturbed and their rites and powers were adversely affected. Moreover their wives, who were also living with them in the forest, all fell in love with the strange sadhu. Incensed at this, they conjured up an elephant and a tiger by magic rites and sent them against him. Siva, however, slew them easily and took the elephant's skin for a robe and the tiger's for a wrap. The rishis then realized that they were up against one more powerful than themselves and they bowed down to him and asked him for instruction. He then explained to them that it is not by action but by renunciation of action that one attains liberation.

    it continues for those interested here;

    http://bhagavan-ramana.org/upadesasaram.html

    With Love
    tim

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    God is Love without attributes.
    Love is like gravity very powerful, we are all affected by iy yet it does not do anything.
    It attracts,
    Obviously that's metaphor.
    The enlightened seem to have have persona’s and preferences but formless they are all the same ONE.
    Our persona's etc are gifts which is given back on leaving the mortal coil.
    When you can walk on water take the boat.
    Powers are a distraction that the ego loves.
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by recap1 (here)
    Maybe this will be perceived to be too simplistic, but learning to be free of concepts of good and evil is fundamental to my understanding/experience of enlightenment/freedom.

    Self-soveriegnty in unbridled choice making.. particularly when outcomes have been derived from action on principles that are core to what is most meaningful inwardly and not externally.

    If I'm divergent here from something more esoteric
    forgive me
    Hi recap,

    Thankyou for your excellent comments and welcome to the thread. To be free of concepts is to be free of (identification with) thoughts. Your fundamental understanding of enlightenment is perfectly congruent with the techniques and masters quoted in this thread, as well as the direct "experience" outlined in the OP.

    Sosan begins the Hsin Hsin Ming with the following;

    The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences.

    This is the equanimity or middle path prescribed by the Buddha. Preferences are a function of thinking/duality, not of pure awareness. The Way and the Goal are One. Contrast Sosan's statement with the following from Ramana Maharshi;

    The degree of the absence of thoughts is the measure of your progress towards Self-Realisation. But Self-Realisation itself does not admit of progress; it is ever the same. The Self remains always in realisation.

    The obstacles are thoughts. Progress is measured by the degree of removal of the obstacles to understanding that the Self is always realised. So thoughts must be checked by seeking to whom they arise. So you go to their Source, where they do not arise.

    D.: Doubts are always arising. Hence my question.

    M.: A doubt arises and is cleared; another arises and that is cleared, making way for another, and so it goes on. So there is no possibility of clearing away all doubts. See to whom the doubts arise. Go to their source and abide in it. Then they cease to arise. That is how doubts are to be cleared.


    The great mistake many make in seeking to know/Gno Jesus or Buddha or any awakened one, is to do so with the intellect. The Kingdom of Heaven / Nirvana is not to be found in books/video's/etc. which at most should be an adjunct or inspiration to one's actual spiritual practice or sadhana...

    M.: Intellect is only an instrument of the Self. It cannot help you to know what is beyond itself.

    D.: I understand it. But there is no happiness beyond it.

    M.: The intellect is the instrument wherewith to know unknown things. But you are already known, being the Self which is itself knowledge; so you do not become the object of knowledge. The intellect makes you see things outside, and not that which is its own source.

    D.: The question is repeated.

    M.: The intellect is useful thus far, it helps you to analyse yourself, and no further. It must then be merged into the ego, and the source of the ego must be sought. If that be done the ego disappears. Remain as that source and then the ego does not arise.

    D.: There is no happiness in that state.

    M.: ‘There is no happiness’ is only a thought. The Self is bliss, pure and simple. You are the Self. So you cannot but be bliss; being so, you cannot say here is no happiness. That which says so cannot be the Self; it is the non-Self and must be got rid of in order to realise the bliss of the Self.


    It is only in abiding in the Source from which all thoughts arise, as opposed to identifying with thoughts, that we realise we are the eternal pure Being. To abide as the Source is to worship in Spirit, this is the inner meaning of loving God with all your heart, all your mind and all your soul...

    All things are like bubbles on water. You are the water and the objects are the bubbles. They cannot exist apart from the water, but they are not quite the same as the water.

    D.: I feel I am like froth.

    M.: Cease that identification with the unreal and know your real identity. Then you will be firm and no doubts can arise.

    D.: But I am the froth.

    M.: Because you think that way there is worry. It is a wrong imagination. Accept your true identity with the Real. Be the water and not the froth. That is done by diving in.

    D.: If I dive in, I shall find........

    M.: But even without diving in, you are That. The ideas of exterior and interior exist only so long as you do not accept your real identity.

    D.: But I took the idea from you that you want me to dive in.

    M.: Yes, quite right. It was said because you are identifying yourself with the froth and not the water. Because of this confusion the answer was meant to draw your attention to this confusion and bring it home to you. All that is meant is that the Self is infinite inclusive of all that you see. There is nothing beyond It nor apart from It.


    Namaste / In Lak'ech
    tim

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Thanks Tim I enjoy your posts immensely.
    They are an accurate reflection of Truth.
    Long may the finger point.

    Chris
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    Thanks Tim I enjoy your posts immensely.
    They are an accurate reflection of Truth.
    Long may the finger point.

    Chris
    Thankyou Chris,

    "A light that shines but does not warm is not a true light", is a quote from Thom Hartmann's book; The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight.

    Your's is a truly warming light Chris. Your impeccable wisdom, humour, kindness and gentle good nature are an immeasurable ongoing gift to Avalon seekers of all persuasions. Rock on, oh wonderful friend,



    http://www.amazon.com/The-Last-Hours.../dp/1400051576

    Namaste / With Love
    tim

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by tim (here)
    This is an account of the direct experience of awakening.

    What can be said, or written, of itself cannot reveal the truth.

    Words and language are themselves an illusory tool, an aspect of the relative dream, and can only indicate or hint towards the totality, or reality, or that which is.

    Upon the moment of awakening not only does the illusion of the relative self or ego vanish like a shadow exposed to light, but all “other” egos, or relative selves, disappear. All separation disappears, and the absolute Self is realized. All is then enlightened and whole, for there never really were separate entities that could become individually enlightened. There then is no relative doer, nor even an absolute doer, for all doing implies separation. Or something to do, or somewhere to go. And not just other humans, but the entire creation is enlightened and whole.

    Now nothing can be judged, or observed, or transcended, as there is no separate observer, nor separate objects observed, nor even separate observing.

    Here even the concept of pure awareness, the witness, unidentified with that which is observed, has dissolved into the totality. Herein lies the meaning of samsara is nirvana. The slightest separation into observer, observed and observing and samsara appears. When observer, observed and observing is an undifferentiated whole, the Self is self evident, and far more evident, than the illusory ego self.

    All that is, then is, as it really is, here descriptions do not apply.

    Now, what is missing from the above description of the direct experience of enlightenment?

    It is the pronoun, I, for in truth there is no I, either relatively or absolutely. I implies a separation from totality, as the first person singular. Whereas the adjective Self, implies being the same throughout, as the self evident united reality/totality/all that is, and is more appropriate at hinting towards the truth.

    You are in reality this Self, all else is illusion.
    Relatively, this is the end of suffering. This is the beginning of endless bliss.
    Absolutely, all suffering is unreal. Only the blissful Self is real.
    This is the eternal Truth.


    Edit to add on 2/5/12

    Insha’Allah (God willing), a response will be offered to the first comment/question of each poster, in due course.

    Due to time restraints and circumstances, subsequent comments and questions may or may not receive a response, preference will be given to authentic enquiries.

    The more heartfelt the first question/comment, the more earnest the seeker, the greater the likelihood of deriving benefit.

    Your first question/comment should cover that which you consider to be of paramount importance to your own awakening/enlightenment.

    With Love/Namaste
    tim


    PS To clarify the definition of enlightenment, in the context that the term is applied in the title of this thread, an examination of the following links may prove helpful, for those with more than just a casual interest;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlight...28spiritual%29
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_realization
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daigo_%28Zen%29
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turiya
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80tman_%28Hinduism%29]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana..._and_True_Self
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychasm
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigpa
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzogchen
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satori
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhahood#Ten_Epithets
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tath%C4%81gata
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upanishads
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_%28concept%29
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tathata
    There is an absolute wealth of information on this thread---it might be a good idea to make it a sticky.
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    There is an absolute wealth of information on this thread---it might be a good idea to make it a sticky.
    OK - sticky it is .

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by greybeard (here)
    There is an absolute wealth of information on this thread---it might be a good idea to make it a sticky.
    OK - sticky it is .
    Thanks Paul I appreciate this.
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    Thumbs up Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    About Time

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    People are conditioned to look for something ongoing, something new.
    This thread is full of information that is unchanging---unchanged since the dawning of time.
    The presentation may change but the finger continues to point to the Truth.
    What is the Truth?
    I invite you to explore Tim's thread and find out for yourself.

    Chris
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    To access thoughtforms and vibrations closer to the level of source, we must abandon the ego. The language of the ego is closer to the vibration of solid matter.

    If one can train their consciousness to abandon the language of the ego, ones thought-forms become a pure channel of the logos. This is not an easy thing to do for most people, especially given the way the world is shown to us today. I have achieved some success in thinking in this higher language and tapping into this energy, but the knack comes and goes at different times. I change one thing about my lifestyle, the subtlety of the knack changes along with it.

    In the times that I have succeeded, I have observed very interestingly that when I look at other people near me, my mind has forgotten to create a conceptual barrier separating my identity from theirs. There is still a sense of identity, of agency, but that sense of agency is no longer confined within the "clay pot" of the ego - the ego (body identity) is completely forgotten. At moments this has been achieved, psychic awareness and telepathy are extremely heightened. I suspect it's easier to read other people's thoughts when your mind truly forgets its separateness from theirs.

    Since I have noted this in my endeavor to attain the propensity to permeate the arcane as such, I figured I would share it here with other folks who are also working toward understanding the magical arts.

    Cool thread, there's something to this. All of it is connected.
    Last edited by Rantaak; 28th September 2013 at 05:58.

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    Ergo Solve Et Coagula

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    I find it interesting how so many supposedly "enlightened" people have a need to come onto the Internet to tell everyone how their "ego" has vanished. I always wonder what they must have been like when they still had an ego.
    Last edited by Shabd_Mystic; 1st December 2013 at 00:58. Reason: correct a typo

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by Shabd_Mystic (here)
    I find it interesting how so many supposedly "enlightened" people have a need to come onto the Internet to tell everyone how their "ego" has vanished. I always wonder what they must have been like when they still had an ego.
    Show me a person promoting enlightenment, and I'll show you a person who has a vested interest in being seen as such, currently or potentially.

    My personal response to the thread title:

    "... NOTHING"

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by Shabd_Mystic (here)
    I find it interesting how so many supposedly "enlightened" people have a need to come onto the Internet to tell everyone how their "ego" has vanished. I always wonder what they must have been like when they still had an ego.
    Quote Posted by Shezbeth (here)

    Show me a person promoting enlightenment, and I'll show you a person who has a vested interest in being seen as such, currently or potentially.

    My personal response to the thread title:

    "... NOTHING"
    Hello Shabd_Mystic and Shezbeth,


    The motivation of all awakened beings to share the freedom they have realized is difficult for the mind to understand....

    True Love has no vested interest.

    True Love has nothing to gain, and nothing to lose....it just IS.

    True Love is suprarational, it can be realized, but it cannot be understood.


    Thankyou for sharing your perspectives. I shall respond to your wonder with a question Shabd_Mystic, who is the I that “has” an ego?

    The Tao that can be expressed is not the eternal Tao;
    The name that can be defined is not the unchanging Name.


    http://www.ruhanisatsangusa.org/naam/naam_shabd1.htm

    And to Shezbeth, “...NOTHING” (Śūnyatā) as a response to the thread title is perfect. It is the same with enlightenment and death, "Nothing" happens, lol.

    No thing = Nothing = Everything = All That IS,

    From “I am That” - Nisargadatta

    Q: You say at the root of the world is self-forgetfulness. To
    forget I must remember: What did I forget to remember? I have
    not forgotten that I am.
    M: This ‘I am’ too may be a part of the illusion.
    Q: How can it be? You cannot prove to me that I am not. Even
    when convinced that I am not — I am.
    M: Reality can neither be proved nor disproved. Within the
    mind you cannot, beyond the mind you need not. In the real, the
    question ‘what is real?’ does not arise. The manifested (saguna)
    and unmanifested (nirguna) are not different.
    Q: In that case all is real.
    M: I am all. As myself all is real. Apart from me, nothing is real.


    http://www.prahlad.org/gallery/nisar...2790_2989_.htm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9A%C5%ABnyat%C4%81

    With (True) Love / In Lak'ech
    tim
    Last edited by Shadowman; 1st December 2013 at 06:16.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    I would be more impressed if you were to tell me what you think.

    There is a common theme in the 'Enlightened' crowd, that of using vacuous terminology and referencing other people's works and ideas. Surely SOMEONE must have firsthand experience with enlightenment, enough so to say more than authoritarian idioms! I mean, millions of pursuant individuals and groups can't be wrong can they?

    Enlightenment is not like graduating, you don't become it. It has been said that one is already/always enlightened, but if accurate that only serves to point out that there is no such thing as enlightenment. Is being born enlightenment?

    I'm aware of the theory that everything is illusion, but good luck expressing anything without illusory hands, body, computer, etc.

    Also, I agree that the self is all and all is the self, but that has little to no bearing on this 3-dimensional experience. Exhart Tolle may feel all one with the world sitting on a park bench, but then he goes and sells books.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Quote Posted by Shezbeth (here)
    I would be more impressed if you were to tell me what you think.

    There is a common theme in the 'Enlightened' crowd, that of using vacuous terminology and referencing other people's works and ideas. Surely SOMEONE must have firsthand experience with enlightenment, enough so to say more than authoritarian idioms! I mean, millions of pursuant individuals and groups can't be wrong can they?

    Enlightenment is not like graduating, you don't become it. It has been said that one is already/always enlightened, but if accurate that only serves to point out that there is no such thing as enlightenment. Is being born enlightenment?

    I'm aware of the theory that everything is illusion, but good luck expressing anything without illusory hands, body, computer, etc.

    Also, I agree that the self is all and all is the self, but that has little to no bearing on this 3-dimensional experience. Exhart Tolle may feel all one with the world sitting on a park bench, but then he goes and sells books.
    I think if you think thinking is going to lead you beyond thinking you should think again. To think that I think otherwise might lead some to think that thinking is impressive when in actuality I think that not thinking is worth thinking about,

    See the happy moron
    He doesn’t give a damn
    I wish I were a moron
    My God
    perhaps I AM




    Enlightenment, relatively, is rather like waking up from a dream. In the dream you take yourself to be a dream character. One among many. Whether you are dreaming or not, the creator of the dream, that which created all of the characters, and the dream itself, remains the same. It is the substrate reality which remains when the temporary or illusory characters dissolve/evanesce upon waking up. It is also present in the dream, both absolutely and relatively.

    So, from the perspective of the dream character, there is a definite shift in perspective of identity from that which is illusory and temporary, to that which was absolute and ever present. Now, you may say the shift is unreal because the dream character was unreal in the first place, however, paradoxically the dream character was also real in the absolute sense, as indicated in the last line of the passage quoted from I Am That.

    Let us say you are dreaming you are a tiger. Within the identity, I am a tiger, is the absolute I AM. In fact contained within any illusory identity is the I AM. The I AM is real/eternal, whatever comes after I AM is usually relative and impermanent.

    It is the same with thinking. Thinking, or the mind, also does a neat trick in impersonating the absolute sense of I AM, with the little I am, or ego. This is the “I am” referred to as an illusion in the bolded quote from I Am That.

    I simply call it the thinking self, which is a matrix of thoughts / memories / experiences, as opposed to the real I AM which is more accurately described as pure awareness or being.

    You “agree” that the self is all, and all is the self, but your terminology implies this is a belief. There is a vast difference between believing or knowing intellectually you are the Self to realizing it as in gnosis. But don’t take my word for it, find out for yourself. You are simply being offered the reality of who you are, in up to date modern terminology, as far as language permits. God 2.0 if you will, for those who can't be bothered pawing over ancient manuscripts and sutra's and translations. And the associated bickering over whose manuscript is right.



    Also offered are some straightforward, simple techniques to help quieten the mind. In return, nothing is requested; not money, nor adulation, nor worship, nor beliefs, nor dietary requirements, nor postures, etc. At least not immediately. Your easy six part book payment plan and bowing guide will be pm’ed shortly

    The opening post is a direct account of what was experienced, as accurately as could be stated, whether you choose to accept it or not is entirely up to you.

    A more detailed reading of the thread and associated links may provide a clearer sense of what the “full moon” IS, rather than playing devil’s advocate and getting hung up on the finger. But if you find it all absolute non/sense, don’t worry, it’s simply different strokes for different folks - there are many paths up the mountain, and while you will die many times on the journey, you will also almost die from laughing quite often.

    Either way, I bid you all the best , my shadowy friend

    In Love, Vacuous Light and Laughter,
    tim
    Last edited by Shadowman; 4th December 2013 at 09:52.

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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    I am more impressed by what is thought than what is believed; Belief implies conviction, from which egos and agendas get caught up, and onward like dominoes. Thought - on the other hand - can be maintained/discarded without attachment or significant consequence. But, that's just my experience of the two.

    Quote Posted by tim (here)
    Enlightenment, relatively, is rather like waking up from a dream. In the dream you take yourself to be a dream character. One among many. Whether you are dreaming or not, the creator of the dream, that which created all of the characters, and the dream itself, remains the same. It is the substrate reality which remains when the temporary or illusory characters dissolve/evanesce upon waking up. It is also present in the dream, both absolutely and relatively.
    I appreciate your thoughts on the matter. My experience contests much of what you have said unless there is a stage beyond enlightenment, at which point we are in agreement.

    Quote Also offered are some straightforward, simple techniques to help quieten the mind. In return, nothing is requested; not money, nor adulation, nor worship, nor beliefs, nor dietary requirements, nor postures, etc. At least not immediately. Your easy six part book payment plan and bowing guide will be pm’ed shortly
    Money/materials are not the only methods by which something can be 'bought'. Besides, there seems a surplus of enlightened/ing individuals.

    Think of it (this exchange) as (what appears to be) many people going down a particular road (which they realistically don't know what's at the end of) but all hoping for something or other at the end,... and one (or more) people walking down the same road in the opposite direction; Content to be doing so, and indicating to any who might be undecided and observing that in the end either direction is both sound and acceptable. ^_^

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    United States Avalon Member Sammy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    What a freaking great thread!!! - How did I miss this? (and the Voice said... "When the student is ready, the teacher appears").

    Tell me - was this thread always a sticky?

    Thanks tim and all contributors - I had the most mind blowing synchronicity (ok.... they are all mind blowing) yesterday when I found this thread.

    Maybe I will post about it.

    EDIT: Holy wow! I just discovered I thanked several posts in this thread months ago - what happened? Am I no longer who I was? Am I anyone? Who will I be tomorrow?

    "Son... please go back to step one as your lovely, chattering mind has sadly returned." Yes, master

    OK folks, I am having one of those fun days where I apparently like to play.
    Last edited by Sammy; 3rd December 2013 at 18:14.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Scotland Avalon Member greybeard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enlightenment - A direct, succinct account of what occurs...

    Hi Chester.
    Only recently a sticky.
    We are very fortunate to have this thread.
    A very clear account of enlightenment---not second hand.
    A great resource.

    Chris
    A charity to help African Children become self sufficient. :attention:

    http://www.learningtoolsforselfdevelopment.co.uk/

    Be kind to all life, including your own, no matter what!!

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