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Thread: "They"...

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: "They"...

    Well, we know where the issue lies -- in the perception that what we see, hear, feel, and observe is the "real" reality - and the subtle creation which all physical steps down from as "fictions" (again, I'm citing advanced SCIENCE -- not fictions -- there is a difference)

    When perception is wrong, everything below it is also likely wrong ...

    I'll have to apolgize for using my knowledge of advanced sciences to say that the "reality" we experience with our sense is a step down illusion from the subtle creation. There is the atomic world and the subatomic world -- why are there people calling the subatomic world a "fiction?" - I don't understand this at all .... But I too will digress.


    You may like the below, King Anthony, it explains a little how social conditioning is tough to fight, and the detailed processes involved in the human mind ...


    WHAT IS --This is just what happens before ANY judgements or interpretation

    PERCEPTION --This is where what happened is interpreted via conditional response

    RATIONALIZATION --This is where thought comes in and compares the perception with historical or learned reasoning

    ALIGNMENT --This is where the thought polarizes with a particular feeling, result, outcome, or judgement based on the rationailzation

    JUSTIFICATION --This is where the alignment is justified to fulfill a sense of personal "rightness" about the previous thought processes

    ACTION --This is where an action or decision is taken based on the previous thought processes

    DEFENSE --This is where the alignment and justification process are used as a "defense" to defend the action - it matters not the appropriateness of the action or decision - when an ego goes through these thought processes it has already justified the action internally based solely on historical egoic actions - not likely based on integrity or honesty relating to the current situation.



    You can't fix your defence because it naturally steps down (is a subset) based on action - if action is wrong than so is defense, no matter what or how hard you try to defend it.
    You can't fix your action because it naturally steps down based on justification - if justification is wrong so will action be, no matter what or how hard you try.
    You can't fix your justifications because it naturally steps down from your alignment - if your alignment is wrong so will justification be, no matter what or how hard you try.
    You can't fix you alignment because it steps down from rationalization - if your rationale was wrong, everything below it can only be wrong - why try to fix something not fixable?
    All the best rationale in the world is useless if it is based in incorrect or inappropriate perception - if rationalization is to have a chance, perception must be of the highest order it can be.

    Since we cannot change "What Is" -- the only chance we have of changing the world is by correcting our perceptions. This happens before the first thought process - it is hidden from your view. One thinks that this is "themself" but this is actually merely their conditioned response, it occurs before you can even rationalize what has happened; did Pavlov's dog think before salivating after hearing the bell? No, it was programmed response; His mind was programmed to perceived food would be coming.

    If we want to change our programming - no amount of defense, action, justification, alignment, or rationalization will ever achieve it. Only new conditioning or attaining the ability to rise above programmed response (with a consistent state of love and instant forgiveness) will work.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    United States Avalon Member xbusymom's Avatar
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    Default Re: "They"...

    We are pure energy ... having a solid experience??

    (I like that philosophy).

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    Default Re: "They"...

    Quote Posted by xbusymom (here)
    We are pure energy ... having a solid experience?? (I like that philosophy).
    Are you not flesh and blood - I say, if flesh and blood be more, for the "experience", then why not accept the challenge of the flesh and blood "experience" and actually do something to make things better - not just for self (in spirit and such) but for all. By the standard of these belief systems, their is failure - for doing nothing is of no value for the future or higher self.

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    Avalon Member pilotsimone's Avatar
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    Default Re: "They"...

    Quote Posted by king anthony (here)
    ...do something to make things better
    If we could please define what is meant by something, I think it would be extremely helpful to the conversation. Thanks!
    Let go or be dragged. -Zen proverb

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: "They"...

    Quote Posted by king anthony (here)
    Quote Posted by xbusymom (here)
    We are pure energy ... having a solid experience?? (I like that philosophy).
    Are you not flesh and blood - I say, if flesh and blood be more, for the "experience", then why not accept the challenge of the flesh and blood "experience" and actually do something to make things better - not just for self (in spirit and such) but for all. By the standard of these belief systems, their is failure - for doing nothing is of no value for the future or higher self.
    This is a valid point.

    I also think making a distinction between "doing nothing" and "working with the subtle realm" needs to be kept, as these are very much often confused. One must consider though that the way we have been trying to fight "TPTB" have not changed in thousands of years. To use an example of yours, "the definition of insanity".

    When one understands the advanced sciences - at least in theory, one can much more easily understand the mechanics of manifestation, and the feedback loop of the chart I posted above -- it is a complete feedback loop of manifestation as "ACTION" is what drives this entire "physical" realm -- which because of the defense, naturally feeds back in to PERCEPTION (for continued maintenance of the defense) and creates the loop. This is the paradigm that needs shifting. The only way to do this is to shift perception and either break the loop or "shift" it to "love" based actions as opposed to "fear" based actions - can you imagine if people started making all decisions out of love as opposed to fear? Be noted, fear is a defense mechanism of the ego, and the ego was never intended to solely drive our decision making processes (the current "human" condition), thus fear in the current context is not optimal. It is a survival mechanism that is supposed to run in the background and does in those with correct mind. Attention is the power of manifestation.

    I'm not requesting or arguing people shouldn't "act" - not at all. I am seeking that people understand their perceptions and the mechanics of manifestation before they "act" -- it can make the difference between continued "insanity" and success.

    My 2 cents
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    New Zealand Avalon Member Tane Mahuta's Avatar
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    Default Re: "They"...

    Quote Posted by Endity (here)
    GRRRRR I want to watch these videos so bad. I HATE THAT I HAVE DIAL UP!
    Me too!! I have a usb stick/modem with a monthly allowance of 5gigs

    High Speed Broadband Access should be a given right/free(imho)

    TM
    "Seek the Truth.....and the Truth shall set you free!!!"

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    Default Re: "They"...

    Quote Posted by pilotsimone (here)
    If we could please define what is meant by something, I think it would be extremely helpful to the conversation. Thanks!
    Nice to see you again!

    The "something" is open to discussion followed by action - however, the ability to be "free" from what has been imposed on the populations is one action that can be (and needed) to create a better world.

    For example, declaring one's sovereignty with earthly matters, meaning not being a part of corrupt governments systems, does not only allow freedom to live as human beings could, stop any plans made harming the populations - but also teaches human beings what is need in the bigger picture of existence.

    This is not based on belief systems, but what is known as fact. It does not matter what people wish to believe in, until it affects survival of each person or the population. There is no benefit to simply discuss matters, makes plans (dreams/fictions) when no action is taken.

    Too many people just talk and feel good about what they talk about - too many people wait for another life to do something, a saviour to rescue them, rely on personal empowerment based on thought - something that has never made true "change".

    I do not wish to appear "negative" and such towards others - but nonsense needs to stop if humanity is to have a chance. Anyone who knows me, not just through text but knows me understands what I am saying - for example, I have been meeting PA members in person (today I met another) and they said I am "softer then how I come across" in posts and such.

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    This is a valid point... it is a complete feedback loop of manifestation as "ACTION" is what drives this entire "physical" realm...
    I appreciate your reply and at the risk of "whatever" I wish to be clear - what you quoted was example only, meaning I was not implying human beings are something more then what they are and such. Regardless, it appears you understood that action need to be done - this requires commitment, sacrifice... and so on - and this opens doors to more.
    Last edited by king anthony; 5th April 2012 at 12:29.

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    Default Re: "They"...

    Quote Posted by Tane Mahuta (here)
    High Speed Broadband Access should be a given right/free
    Yes it should and in the world that could be... should be, all would have access to the benefits of the collective/population/civilization - this is not an opinion but fact, it would only be an opinion in the civilization that is current based on what is believed - what is believed being (examples) that profit should come first and not all are entitled to (for whatever reason).

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    Mexico Avalon Member seko's Avatar
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    Default Re: "They"...

    This tune from Muse, fits well in here K.Anthony

    Last edited by seko; 5th April 2012 at 16:24.
    Breathe in the air

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: "They"...

    Quote Posted by king anthony (here)
    ...

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    This is a valid point... it is a complete feedback loop of manifestation as "ACTION" is what drives this entire "physical" realm...
    I appreciate your reply and at the risk of "whatever" I wish to be clear - what you quoted was example only, meaning I was not implying human beings are something more then what they are and such. Regardless, it appears you understood that action need to be done - this requires commitment, sacrifice... and so on - and this opens doors to more.
    I'll try to add to this from a "physical" POV that incorporates the concept of what myself, Delight, and a few others have been trying to drive home. When Delight described what she is "doing" you (or anyone) may think -- "well that contributes nothing to solve the problem and seems selfish". But in reality, the act of people taking these routes does a couple things that really do contribute to better the overall situation: When people choose to buy local organic or grow / raise their own foods, become self sufficient, the money is not going into "their" systems anymore, but into smaller local systems. Big Agra / Big Pharma / Big energy are the streams of Finance for the "TPTB". When you live naturally, and in harmony with earth - you are no longer giving them your money they use to control you with. Everday, tiny decisions make the difference here; daily decisions that are affected by your mood and conditioning as I indicated in my psuedo chart above somewhere. The social conditionings that says "I need to have this smartphone, I need to eat this food, I need to buy this brand, I need to buy this car, I have this ailment and need this drug" can really only be broken by changing the perceptions of these "needs". Once that social conditioning chain is broken, it is easier to see other conditionings. So small personal choices really do have an effect - and it is something ALL of us CAN do without having to get caught up in the dispair of others -- this is not needed. It is our perceptions that need changing first -- the appropriate actions will always follow, although sometimes the actions don't always seem appropriate, the mechanics of the perception shift's affect on action dictates it always will be. Fearful actions are always ego driven - therefore by their conception, limited in view (perception) - results obtained in this way can only get as good as the view is, and "TPTB" have a better view.

    I left out a whole chunk on manifesting and tried to relay more of the "physical" results, this was hard to do as the feedback loop of manifestation does not start with "action" but rather "action" is always a result; look how far down on the chart it exists. I'm looking for "prevention", not "band-aid" solutions that merely address the effect and not the cause. My 2 cents
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Avalon Member Delight's Avatar
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    Default Re: "They"...

    Quote Too many people just talk and feel good about what they talk about - too many people wait for another life to do something, a saviour to rescue them, rely on personal empowerment based on thought - something that has never made true "change".

    I do not wish to appear "negative" and such towards others - but nonsense needs to stop if humanity is to have a chance. Anyone who knows me, not just through text but knows me understands what I am saying - for example, I have been meeting PA members in person (today I met another) and they said I am "softer then how I come across" in posts and such.
    Dear K.A.

    How we come across in writing is one of the downsides to being on a forum.

    You are coming across to me strongly sincere in your feelings for Sovereignty. I want to share something experienced that shapes my "strongly felt about".

    I worked as an RN in illness care for 30 years. I went through phases. Though I almost immediately noted that I was being used by the system, I wanted to "support" people. I also became "used to" making a living. Then I began to feel "bad" about my role. Struggle insued and fear about "how otherwise to make a living" ensued. It grew worse and worse. Two years ago a new incident happened. We were forced to either take the flu shot, get a medical exemption or claim a religious exemption. Otherwise we would lose our job. I was angry as I wanted a "political" exemption. I lied and took a religious exemption but two months later I quit.

    If I did not now look at my life as a creation beginning in the "subtle realms" where thought makes things, I would have much less security to leave "all that" behind. I would either be fearful and willing to "agree" to the system or "want to fight" the system or continue being torn back and forth.

    For myself (and only for myself), the shift in attention to the subtle realms as the source which then trickles down into "the world" became my way to do something about participation in systems that I agree are antithetical to HUMAN life (versus inhuman life).

    I apologize if this is off topic. I also want to thank Dedukshyn for his out line as it is valuable to me.

    In the very last analysis I agree that What Is, Is. However, it is strangely in my experience showing up just as I believe. Strange world I am living in but I feel peace. Maggie

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    Default Re: "They"...

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    I'll try to add to this from a "physical" POV that incorporates the concept of what myself...
    As being a flesh and blood human being offers no other perspective or "point of view" - social conditioning has offered some/many feel-good, falsely empowering those who accept; adding human arrogance, feel-good is solidly entrenched into the mind. I wish you well.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Delight (here)
    ...You are coming across to me strongly sincere in your feelings...
    I say, I have no feelings on the topic discussed - for the topic discussed and the words I share do not belong to me.

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    Default Re: "They"...

    Quote Posted by king anthony (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    I'll try to add to this from a "physical" POV that incorporates the concept of what myself...
    As being a flesh and blood human being offers no other perspective or "point of view" - social conditioning has offered some/many feel-good, falsely empowering those who accept; adding human arrogance, feel-good is solidly entrenched into the mind. I wish you well.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Delight (here)
    ...You are coming across to me strongly sincere in your feelings...
    I say, I have no feelings on the topic discussed - for the topic discussed and the words I share do not belong to me.
    If the words do not belong to you, to whom do they belong?
    If you have no feelings, how can they be of value to you?
    If all this is just an exercise in (I do not know what it is in exercise to without a POV and feeling?), it is mental masturbation.
    And besides that, why should I accept anything that is undigested which happens when people just pass on words they have not enlivened.

    I now leave your thread to you to jiggle.
    And yes, I feel indignation. maggie

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    Default Re: "They"...

    Quote Posted by Delight (here)
    If the words do not belong to you... I now leave your thread to you to jiggle...
    I say, it is for some to understand and for some not to - some do understand and some do not; am I responsible for either!?

    I have not stated or implied that I do not have feelings; my words were, that I have no feelings attached to the topic of discussion and the value is not to be gained by me but rather those who (make choice to) "listen" and "accept".

    Social conditioning has it so, that everyone is made to believe that everything is a "point of view", there is no absolute, everything is a fiction (such as an opinion, theory and belief) - everyone has the penitential to, not only know this, but also understand this - not everyone has the ability to do so.

    Note how the topic of discussion has not been, other then some defending their fictions. The original post presented facts; yet, what is popular is fiction as a solution. The challenge here being, attempting to give to those who do not wish to receive. In the words I share, in video or print, I have never told anyone what to say, think or do - I have offered aid with how to search facts properly, using proven research skills and offering, at times, enough information to say there is merit to search (further - when needed).

    For this, subtle to direct attacks against the one delivering the message is; rather then investing the time and effort into solutions, commitment and success. Page after page of discussion has been - what could have been gained at this point if discussion was reality based - I ask rhetorically.

    If this is what the people of this forum wish, to discuss feel-good, then this is what all shall have - I am not here to imposed and when not welcomed I shall simply leave with no ill feelings. Perhaps the people here can at least show bravery and say. In closing I ask, how will one know if/when one comes that has knowledge, understanding and is willing to share it - using the standards shown by some/many here!?

    Be well on your journey - I wish you well.
    Last edited by king anthony; 6th April 2012 at 14:27.

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: "They"...

    Quote "As being a flesh and blood human being offers no other perspective or "point of view" "


    - this reasoning can only be sustained by the rejection of the notion that humans have a finer energy (spirit / soul/ etc) -- which is our connection to the subatomic, or subtle realm. I know I have one.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Default Re: "They"...

    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    ...I know I have one.
    I say, then you have that what you want.

    Quote @ ALL
    Why is it so, that this thread is continuously derailed - is this by chance or design I do ask.

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    Default Re: "They"...

    Quote Posted by Maia Gabrial (here)
    I believe the good news is that THEY are finished... They have enjoyed the power for so long, but that's over now. They're done for. They want us to continue believeing that they're in power; when in fact, they're running scared now. As last ditch efforts, they're throwing everything at us AND none of it's working. WE'RE the tsunami that's rolling over them NOW.

    WE have ALLOWED them to think they were so powerful. WE"RE the ones who will put them in their places NOW...
    So, they're dead meat and they know it....
    Absolutely!
    The wool cannot cover the sheep´s eyes any longer....
    The veil is fragile over the rose bush and we must pick the thorns one by one with love and compassion so that our civilization can progress and irradicate negativity
    once and for all. Awareness is speading and that is comforting. Together, with wisdom and love we can walk new paths where all is equal. Reality is ours to make.

    Much love!
    Drops become the Ocean!

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    Default Re: "They"...

    Quote Posted by RAPBRASIL (here)
    ...The wool cannot cover the sheep´s eyes any longer...
    How has it not (again) I ask.

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    Default Re: "They"...

    Quote Posted by seko (here)
    This tune from Muse, fits well in here K.Anthony

    This???

    "Paranoia is in bloom,
    The PR transmissions will resume
    They'll try to, push drugs that keep us all dumbed down
    And hope that, we will never see the truth around
    (so come on)
    Another promise, another seed
    Another, packaged lie to keep us trapped in greed
    And all the, Green belts wrapped around our minds
    And endless, red tape to keep the truth confined
    (so come on)

    They will not force us
    They will stop degrading us
    They will not control us
    We will be victorious
    so come on

    Interchanging mind control
    Come let the, revolution takes its toll
    If you could, flick the switch and open your third eye
    You'd see that
    We should never be afraid to die
    (so come on)
    Rise up and take the power back
    It's time the fat cats had a heart attack
    You know that their time's coming to an end
    We have to unify and watch our flag ascend

    They will not force us
    They will stop degrading us
    They will not control us
    We will be victorious

    Hey .. hey ... hey .. hey! (repeat)

    They will not force us
    They will stop degrading us
    They will not control us
    We will be victorious

    Hey .. hey ... hey .. hey! (repeat)"


    How???

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: "They"...

    Quote Posted by king anthony (here)
    Quote Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
    ...I know I have one.
    I say, then you have that what you want.

    Quote @ ALL
    Why is it so, that this thread is continuously derailed - is this by chance or design I do ask.
    You just did, to tell me your "fictions" (assumptions) about what you "perceived"(fictional) as my wants. I never "wanted" a soul, I never asked for one, and new science (for those who are learned and open enough to understand) can prove that I have one. It may not be a "soul" in a religious sense -- this is almost assured, but the frequency ranges of energy does not stop at the physical realm or flesh and blood -- this is assured.

    That statement you issued to me above is just as absurd as your "eye to eye" one. At least I spent a couple posts trying to explain how there are different ways to support your cause. If you are willing only to steer this thread within the context of your limited view rather than expand on it and allow it grow into something more that perhaps more people will be able to relate to, to get good discussion on what actually CAN be done, then you are reaping exactly what you have sown. You constant rejection of everything that is not a part of your "database" is quite the hamper of forward momentum. Do you "channel?" Are you "AI?" The limitations of your view are not new to me, I have seen this before ...

    I'll take the hint though and leave, I may check back another day and see if there has been progress towards solution, good luck! =)

    I for one am not trying to derail this thread, but rather expand it to be more inclusive. Again, my apologies -- carry on as you were.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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