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    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Reset Button Movement

    Quote Posted by risveglio (here)
    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    The Reset Button is an apolitical solution to political problems. If you love politics, you'll hate this.

    The idea is to go after that elusive "government of the people, by the people, and for the people" that gets mentioned frequently, but has never existed in the US. No more political parties. No more politics. No more money in the electoral process. Only ordinary citizens (with no corporate or banking ties) even allowed to run for office. Elected offices last 4 years, and then out - and that person could never serve in that office again. Temporary. Service. Not political careers. Candidates mandated to express their positions, in writing, on a couple dozen critical topics - real topics, not fluff.

    This idea would create a fair and honest electoral system - just what the 2 political parties don't want. Just what the corporations and banks that sponsor candidates don't want. Imagine what it would be like if all three branches of US government were filled with 100% ordinary citizens not tied to corporations (instead of 100% of them tied to corporations, as it is now.) Imagine what we could accomplish.

    One problem: "They" will never voluntarily do this. It will require more than shouting, more than petitions to make it happen. (It will require a strategy - and that strategy, that non-violent strategy - is part of The Reset Button document.)

    Dennis

    p.s. The above is today's attempt to 'hone' the message down to a succinct, small byte.
    Doesn't this also eliminate good people from staying in office. Wouldn't this make a Ron Paul or a Dennis Kucinich impossible. When this whole concept gets taken over, where is room for the Fool On The Hill? If the entire government is being replaced every 4 years, how do we stop being pulled in opposite directions because of the pulse of the nation?

    I work for a company that works for a corporation. Does that disqualify me from running? Who are you allowed to work for to be an ordinary citizen? I think all public workers would have to be eliminated also.
    I think these are good questions, and are answered in the spirit of a transformation from having corporations controlling not only elections but also governance, to one where corporate control of elections is completely eliminated, and collusion between corporations and governance (which will be an ongoing battle) is minimized.


    Quote Posted by risveglio (here)
    Doesn't this also eliminate good people from staying in office. Wouldn't this make a Ron Paul or a Dennis Kucinich impossible.
    Yes, it does. I believe it is a small price to pay, and that once the corporate shills are eliminated, we'll find hundreds of individuals at least as good as those examples.

    Just like the jury selection system finds new jurors, regardless of the fact that there was an awesome jury foreman who was incredibly diligent and moved mountains to make sure a case was judged fairly.

    It is my opinion that we have trained ourselves to think of these elected positions as theoretically something you need to be very special to do. Kucinich and Paul and Grayson and Sanders stand out because they act more like citizens than corporate shills. They seem special (and, in the company they keep, they are.) Common sense and integrity are the key attributes I'd look for in elected officials.

    I could turn the question around (and the concept might make sense, from a different perspective.) Why have term limits on presidents? Why have 4-year terms for presidents, why not 10 years?

    Strict term limits is not my idea; it is one that has been expressed by numerous individuals trying to identify the root causes of our infected government. I do see it as a powerful and important facet of getting free from "royalty syndrome", and quest for power. If a mechanism exists that allows some to grab greater power, they will.


    Quote Posted by risveglio (here)
    When this whole concept gets taken over, where is room for the Fool On The Hill?
    Not sure I understand this question. In a way, we admit more fools on the hill when we eliminate 530 utterly predictable, programmed pro-corporatists. Jesse Venturea was voted into the Governor's office in Minnesota. That was really, citizens going against the D and R being offered as the only options, and selecting what many saw as the fool on the hill. Turns out he was citizen-centric and quite a good governor (unless you talk to a partisan from the D or R camp - which demonize everyone but themselves.)

    Quote Posted by risveglio (here)
    If the entire government is being replaced every 4 years, how do we stop being pulled in opposite directions because of the pulse of the nation?
    I don't know the answer to that. I guess I would expect there might be times where the pendulum swings far, and other times when it does not. Mistakes would require course corrections, and we might over-correct. Isn't the same thing theoretically true right now, but tempered by the fact that legislators simply do not even entertain pro-citizen legislation, keeping the pendulum swung artificially far towards corporatism?

    I would certainly hope that one of the first things any Congress not sponsored by international banks would do is to get rid of the Fed and heavily regulate banking - to eliminate the banking 'shenanigans' that cause wild fluctuations. Same with trading. The corporate-sponsored marionettes now in charge will not regulate trading, but I would hope non-corporate "elected citizens" would eliminate the trading practices that can wipe out a nation in a day (lining traders pockets) or screwing with the price of next year's corn flakes. All-in-all, I would expect there NOT to be wild swings every four years, but that is conjecture. If they occur, it would be for good reason (strong correction for some mistake or unexpected trend change.) I guess I also see corporations at the helm of the eternal push for more, more, more (unsustainable capitalistic growth), and would hope that citizens could see that this is artificial BS perpetrated on us. Today, I had a bowl of oatmeal and cranberries for breakfast. In the year 2025, a bowl of oatmeal and cranberries will be a good breakfast. In Bill Still's research and calculations, nearly all of inflation is artificial. That means the bowl of oatmeal that was $1 today should not be $15 in 2025.

    I took "pulled in opposite directions" as mostly economic, but I would hope that most facets of life would smooth-out rather than become more volatile, when corporations are only in charge of their factories and warehouses, and not the government too. For example, I would expect a nation enjoying peace in 2016 would not have an appetite for war in 2020. What fluctuations do you envision?

    Quote Posted by risveglio (here)
    I work for a company that works for a corporation. Does that disqualify me from running? Who are you allowed to work for to be an ordinary citizen? I think all public workers would have to be eliminated also.
    We have tried allowing all of our elected officials in high office to be corporate. We know that breeds collusion. These aren't Buddhist monks, and people in charge of lawmaking simply must not be influenced by the corporate stock they own, or the corporation they are going to return to in 4 years. They can't possibly vote without bias on a bill regulating or eliminating GMO seeds if they have shares of Monsanto, or vote on whether to go to war if they own a piece of Lockheed-Martin. That's the "spirit of the law" that is being addressed. Can you think of a better way to phrase it?

    Dennis


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    Default Re: The Reset Button Movement

    Anything above this portion I can not really respond to. I become more of an anarcho-capitalist every day. Now a year from now I may call myself crazy.

    My solution to most of these problems is to make government so small that the damage a career politicians could do would be very minimal.

    [QUOTE=Dennis Leahy;475141][QUOTE=risveglio;474941]
    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

    Quote Posted by risveglio (here)
    I work for a company that works for a corporation. Does that disqualify me from running? Who are you allowed to work for to be an ordinary citizen? I think all public workers would have to be eliminated also.
    We have tried allowing all of our elected officials in high office to be corporate. We know that breeds collusion. These aren't Buddhist monks, and people in charge of lawmaking simply must not be influenced by the corporate stock they own, or the corporation they are going to return to in 4 years. They can't possibly vote without bias on a bill regulating or eliminating GMO seeds if they have shares of Monsanto, or vote on whether to go to war if they own a piece of Lockheed-Martin. That's the "spirit of the law" that is being addressed. Can you think of a better way to phrase it?

    Dennis
    I understand what you are saying but then why allow public employees? Once 25% of the public is employed by government, you are almost guaranteed government is going to control everything. How do you stop that quadrillon dollar education complex (that could have been built for $250 trillion) for the city?

    Disclaimer: Monetary values used in my example are what I see the value of money being in 10-15 years if nothing changes with our system. My friends call me an optimist.

  3. Link to Post #83
    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Reset Button Movement

    The Reset Button is an attempt to go from a very, very VERY bad situation to one a lot better. I do not see it as a panacea, or perfect, or as if every angle has been covered. For example, I identified 9 ways the Financial Elite control elections. When shut down, I fully expect them to try to regain control in other ways.

    For corporatists/fascists, The Reset Button is a nightmare. For everyone else, it should be a huge step in the right direction.

    If you see yourself as an "anarcho-capitalist", I'm guessing that you're envisioning capitalism similarly to what Stefan Molyneux talks about in his simple examples ("I have some carrots, you want some carrots...") and honestly, I do know business people that operate with very high personal integrity, do not opportunistically price gouge, and are truly honorable people transacting some sort of trade. Then, think about a company like Monsanto, and that's where, when Ron Paul says government has no business regulating businesses, he is out of his mind. Big Pharma has destroyed the health of millions. Big Ag has poisoned us, destroyed the soil, and poisoned the water... (just a few examples) so when I hear the term "anarcho-capitalist" I don't think of you and I conducting an honorable transaction that is none of the government's business, I think of these metastatic monsters destroying anyone and everything in their path - a wide swath - killing, pillaging, and destroying for insatiable profit.

    They have proven, beyond any shadow of a doubt, they will not self-police or self regulate - and "the market" doesn't really regulate goods. Maybe in a small swap meet where there are 2 booths where you can buy a bag of popcorn, the market determines the price (unless they conspire), but in a global market where there is some other nation that pays low wages or has super-cheap resources, the US worker will lose every time.

    Unless governments are allowed to keep printing as much money as they want, ad infinitum, government HAS to be smaller.

    The definition of anarchy I respond favorably to is summarized in the phrase I repeat, "Rule by rules, not by rulers." I think it is one of the underlying principles that will enable not only a much smaller government, but also a much smaller (and much more benign and non-intrusive) police force.

    Dennis


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    Default Re: The Reset Button Movement

    I once heard an idea to the effect of forcing all elected politicians to give up the right to personal assets and in effect, perhaps live at the bottom-most income level. In essence, for life, which almost means feeders off the State.

    ....But let the hot entrepreneurs get rich, play the the competition-sport, if they produce something good for society. Though it has been the starving artists who made life beautiful. Dying in the ditch, some of their works are sold for millions today.

    Who would run for office then? Who would vote them into office? I wonder, but it appeals to me more than todays menagerie. I thinks some great, dynamic aggressive would dawn the service-to-others cap and make the State really beautiful, truthful and good....

    What i drew from that was a preference for a slogan:

    Separate money and State! Real simple, but does it mean discard money-systems, like the other thread today?

    As a kid i figured becoming a millionaire was really cool, but nowadays, i'm happy living at extremely low maintenance... An almost eclectically-disheveled style, low tax, high security, because there is so little here worth stealing, after the long travel getting here. Oh well.
    Last edited by wavydome; 26th April 2012 at 12:14.

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    Default Re: The Reset Button Movement

    Removed to avoid hell.
    Last edited by risveglio; 21st January 2014 at 19:28.

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    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Reset Button Movement

    Rather than starting from the theoretical, or the classroom, I try to envision real-world scenarios, real-world interactions, and starting from where things are right this moment. How we got here is very important, but even more important is the fact that we are here and there is nothing theoretical about it. From this vantage point, and from this starting point with the corporatocracy/fascist state in full swing, with the police/security/intelligence/military as it is, with the land and the resources already divided-up and owned by "others" long before I incarnated, and having any form of basic human rights be questioned by those in power... Well, that reality is my starting point, and I want to make it better. I don't make proposals that suppose the world was different than it is, that society was not this way.

    The Reset Button is not a far-flung futurist's vision. Is is a short-term vision of a strong course correction away from corporatocracy/oligarchy. Where society - citizens, and our elected representatives in a constitutional republic - takes it after there remains to be seen. I believe one confounding piece to the puzzle is that virtually every one of us went through heavy brainwashing and dumbing-down. So, I fully expect that a complete generational cycle of education will produce many many hundreds of thousands of individuals with capabilities of creative thinking and problem solving far beyond the current crop of people (including all of us, even if we think we're 'awake' or 'intelligent' or 'wise' - we are a generation of mental and emotional cripples.)

    This is a transitional time, not a time of great stability where only minor details are yet to be worked out. It is arrogant to think that our vision of the world our great-grandchildren will have can be envisioned by the likes of us. We need a transition, a heavy course correction (we're f-ing up the natural world, forcing the next generations to work on toxic clean up and rebuilding vitality into biomes, rather than wherever else their visions may have led them.)

    In this current aristocratic-socialist, fascist-infested quasi-constitutional quasi-republic, a realistic goal is to get to a constitutional republic and eliminate the fascist/corporatist infection and aristocratic-socialist siphoning. We have all been starved of our freedoms long enough that we may have different visions of freedom, and anarcho-capitalism is most certainly about a type of freedom. If there is a spectrum with "me-ism" (love of self) at one end and "we-ism" (love of us all) at the other, then I personally would place the pointer near the we-ism end of that spectrum, partly as a course correction, and partly because that's what's in my heart. But, I don't expect or even ask anyone to follow my heart.

    The Reset Button isn't a philosophical discussion as much as it is a roadmap. Especially true of Phase I, and I spent a lot of effort making sure that ALL I want people to support is a course correcting in electoral politics to put citizens in control and take that control from corporations. That should be very easy to support.

    The items in Phase II are topics the candidates would need to address. One of them is finding a balance - a healthy balance - between capitalism and socialism. We have some of both right now (and the huge drain from socialism is not welfare recipients, it is corporations.) We are terribly out of balance, in my opinion, far too much capitalism and wealth accumulation for a few at the expense of the many's social services. We now have our government selling off our highways, bridges, and ports (for example) to the highest bidder (usually foreign.) Those are community assets, and something is very wrong. Prisons are being sold to or taken over by profit-hungry capitalists. That is just plain sick.
    Quote I don't know if you realize it but I think you are just trying to create a socialist society. Socialism could never work as people would just do less.
    You're wrong in saying that I am (or The Reset Button is) trying to create a socialist society. Nothing in Phase I of The Reset Button is about socialism or capitalism. And Phase II is just topics that the candidates need to be mandated into addressing.

    My personal opinions? I would like to see the social services be well-defined, budgeted, and a shared burden. I do want capitalism reigned-in. Large-scale capitalism cannot be regulated by the market in those areas where capitalists control necessities for life - like food. There is no possible way that consumers can ever or will ever stop Monsanto from completely taking over the world's food supply. They are within a few years of doing just that, and will unless stopped. I think benign anarcho-capitalism is an oxymoron. Capitalism is not about being benign, in spite of the fact that you and I can trade carrots and potatoes in a capitalist transaction and both walk away feeling good. Those one-on-one, happy, fluffy, examples are not capitalism in the real world, and consumers are helpless against corporations - unless the goods can be rejected. (We can reject luxuries, and thus "control" the luxuries market.)

    But I'll bring it back again to what The Reset Button really is: a proposal to get the power over elections (and thus governance) away from corporations and into the hands of citizens. It is a goal that can be embraced by nearly everyone (other than the oligarchs and their minions.)

    Dennis


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    Default Re: The Reset Button Movement

    Removed for Dennis
    Last edited by risveglio; 21st January 2014 at 19:27.

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    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Reset Button Movement

    Quote Posted by risveglio (here)
    I don't have time for this today so maybe I will revisit this thread later but again you avoid the question of public employees not being allowed to run for office. I think you feel the same way about capitalism that I feel about government. I know from what I have learned, we are no where near a capitalist society so I guess I get confused when capitalism is blamed. In the past, capitalism is usually blamed by socialist or communist even though their systems are far worse, it's an easy target to blame capitalism.

    To come full circle, I just can not sign it because I just don't trust the way you think. I can't sign it, as others have told me in private messages, just to support a fellow forum member who means well. I think this plan is dangerous. I am trying to make my points but we just think radically different. Maybe after the collapse you can try your form of the reset button in the northwest and here we can try a limited, constitutional republic with sound money without treating every successful person as some monster because he succeeded in his small business and eventually grew large enough to be considered an evil "corporation".
    Working for a corporation (or the government) is not the same as being an officer in a corporation, or owning stock in a corporation. It is those latter two that would make it impossible to debate and vote on the floor of the houses of Congress unbiased. I gave specific examples before - involving Monsanto and Lockheed-Martin. These are NOT theoretical - the votes in Congress are heavily tainted by the stock portfolios of the Congresspersons. The idea that legislators need to be unbiased and NOT in a position to be personally financially rewarded for the votes they cast is not my idea, though I strongly support it.

    If you believe that a Monsanto executive should be allowed to be appointed to head up the USDA, then yes, we are at impasse. This is not a tough issue for most folks, and I would call your views highly radical and pro-corporatocracy/pro-fascism if you support ideas like that. And again, this isn't some far-fetched straw-man argument - if you know the history of Monsanto and the so-called "revolving door" and don't see a problem, I don't know what else to say - that would mean you support the breeding ground of collusion.

    Also, the US has (as Eisenhower warned as he left office) a "military industrial complex" that is far beyond ridiculous in size and posture and economic drain - without even getting into the deployment of the troops and technology, in order to use up stockpiled weaponry, resulting in cash-flow for those corporations within the military industrial complex and blood flow for the individuals who had the audacity to build their homes on some foreign soil that the US military and their handlers decided was strategic. The same Senators and Congresspersons that vote to keep funding wars become millionaires in office due to their stock portfolios. (Big Pharma, Big Ag, and Military-related stocks, etc.) You're OK with that?

    Sorry, anyone who supports war-for-profit is deeply misguided, dangerous, and quite possibly mentally ill - "depraved indifference", sociopathic, or psychopathic - in my book.

    Do you support this behavior? It makes BIG money, massive profits! It is our nation's current "bread and butter" economic sector, and many many people who are not paying attention to who they have in a stock portfolio (typically a retirement account) have no idea they are supporting the war-for-profit machine. This is obscene.

    This plan is dangerous? Sorry if I snap, but the plan is getting control of elections away from corporate sponsorship and into the hands of citizens (like we pretend we already have.) That's dangerous? Or is something in the Phase II stuck in your craw? (And, if so, have you forgotten those are only topics, not mandates, and that you would vote for the persons that matches your views, not mine?)

    Currently, (and forever, unless something changes), your voice means NOTHING at all to the corporate representatives. They could care less what you think. They don't work for you. You did not put them in power, corporations did, and they are well aware of it. They will never sway their votes - the votes they cast for their corporate sponsors - due to your wishes (or the wishes of most of the 320 million other citizens.) You don't count. Monsanto does. I don't count. Goldman-Sachs does. You are completely powerless, just like I am. It is hilarious, really. Someone proposes that the citizens should control the government, not the corporations, and we have citizens - powerless citizens - arguing FOR the corporations!

    Quote I know from what I have learned, we are no where near a capitalist society...
    Well, with that statement, I don't trust the way you think.

    I'll make a last attempt to understand what you are saying:

    Even though we are still talking about a constitutional republic, you appear to be afraid of citizens voting for citizens. Your reasoning seems to be that this smells too much like democracy. If democracy erupted, then "mob rule", and god only knows what the totally insane majority of society might vote for. But, by removing as much democracy as possible, by taking that freedom from citizens (keeping citizens safely removed from the important parts of the electoral process), and allowing Big Money to dictate who is a viable candidate, that is good. That way, there is no chance of democracy ruining everything, and very little chance of big voting/mood swings in the country - because the Big Money sponsored candidates will be predictable. And we'll all live happily everafter. Well, some will. Some, not so much. And the vast majority will have no representative voice.

    If you were actually arguing for a republic, you'd be arguing for proper representation within the republic. (If I understand your position) I am astounded that you really are fearful of
    actual representation, and prefer artificial representation (where Big Money picks representatives rather than citizens.) And, if I understand you correctly, this is your position because you want the right to dream of growing your capitalist venture, with no government restrictions whatsoever (environmental, worker safety, pay scale, etc.)

    Quote ...without treating every successful person as some monster because he succeeded in his small business and eventually grew large enough to be considered an evil "corporation".
    The Immediate, singular, only, sole, solo reason for the Reset Button is to get citizens representing citizens. Period. Exclamation point. What is so hard to understand about that?


    Are you afraid of even forcing candidates to
    talk about the issues they would be mandated to talk about (the stuff in "Phase II") ?

    Because that is as far as my "dangerous" thinking goes. I'm not really interested in the marshmallow subjects that candidates half-assed talk about, and think they should be forced into revealing their positions on the difficult subjects before we vote. If that is dangerous thinking, brand me dangerous - and enjoy what passes for political conversation, like gay marriage, from the D and the R candidates that Goldman-Sachs picked out for you (and who will avoid any topic important to governance.) You are free to select from among anyone you want, absolutely anyone - as long as they are a D or an R and were pre-selected by one or more major corporations. And, that's the way it will always be, when citizens support corporations controlling elections.


    Come to think of it, you probably have a very good chance of realizing your personal dreams by keeping everything the way it is. "Anarcho-capitalist", translated, means unrestricted capitalism. We are almost there, 100%. Shouldn't take Congress but a few more sessions to disassemble the rest of the environmental laws and workers rights. Then there will be no limit to anarchy in capitalism.


    If I have correctly characterized your views, then please, do not sign The Reset Button. No one should sign that supports corporatocracy and wants the level of citizen involvement in government (any size government) to be limited to selecting from among representatives that corporations vetted, sponsored, and anointed.


    Dennis
    Last edited by Dennis Leahy; 27th April 2012 at 05:15.


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    Default Re: The Reset Button Movement

    Removed for Dennis
    Last edited by risveglio; 21st January 2014 at 19:27. Reason: spelling

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    Default Re: The Reset Button Movement

    Removed for Dennis
    Last edited by risveglio; 21st January 2014 at 19:27.

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    Default Re: The Reset Button Movement

    I'm gonna be honest now, I read the first few posts and checked out your website so I'm not sure what the conversation is about right now, but KUDOS to you for doing it, you're doing something about "it", action over words, I respect that and I respect passion. I thought your site was clear enough, maybe the color scheme could be more calming (as suggested I'd go for a lighter hue of green or blue) but I really think ppl will be paying more attention to the contents than the looks. But yet again, I want to stress the importance of doing something for the things you believe in, that's what I'm talking about, GOOD JOB.

    There's a song that says if their song affected one person, it became worth it, I believe that.

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    Default Re: The Reset Button Movement

    LOL! I just responded to your comment regarding "The Reset Button 2012" on the Iceland Debt Forgiveness thread and then I noticed this thread (created 5 days earlier no less--guess I need to stop skimming so much). Anyway, I'll definitely check it all out.

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    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Reset Button Movement

    Quote Posted by risveglio (here)
    I am not very sure how to answer your sedond part. First, it seems very offensive. I have been told to cool it for far less so I hope you get a "don't do that" by one of our mods.

    I do not support our military-industrial complex. If you scan my post, I make it very clear I am a Ron Paul supporter so yes I am pro capitalism and anti war. (What, How can that be?).

    I am a staunch believer that in a free market society, you would have far less huge corporations. See, our regulations make it extremely hard to compete. They are usually written and designed so make it difficult for a company to start, grow or have more employees. Your reset button sets hundreds of rules, some which I don't think you really understand. Obviously we could not go from what we have now to a Voluntarist or Anarchical society but ultimately that is what we need to be free. Yes, get money out of politics but don't do it by destroying the economy and setting rules for this you don't fully understand. You still seem to have a big, central government in your plan. And your starting point only sees one head of the three headed monster.
    You're obviously just trying to wind me up. I'll explain (to others that may be reading your words), one last time:

    The ONLY thing you're asked to support is taking governance away from corporations and putting it in the hands of citizens.

    Free market is not mentioned

    Capitalism is not mentioned

    Anarchy is not mentioned

    A big central government is not mentioned

    Destroying the economy is not mentioned

    This is simply you, jumping to conclusions, fear-mongering, discrediting, being divisive, making stuff up, and refusing to actually read the text of the proposed amendment and act.

    [My OPINION, which has nothing to do with supporting The Reset Button: we probably have 100,000 laws to dismantle and discard or rewrite - if HONEST people, not corporate shills, were in legislative positions.]
    This is NOT creating or supporting "hundreds of rules", and you know it. This is an attempt to get ONE law and ONE Constitutional amendment that will:

    drumroll please...

    take governance away from corporations and put it in the hands of citizens.

    At this point, risveglio, I'd like you to start you own thread about, well, whatever you want to talk about. You were trolling before, but I was very patient and explained over and over how you are (I now have to assume deliberately) mis-characterizing The Reset Button as some evil plan. Really, I have grown weary of the trolling behavior. I will not respond to any more trolling.

    I will tell you something one-to-one on a personal level: the time for selfish thinking on this planet is over. The world is moving away from competition and towards cooperation. Selfish people are part of the old paradigm. The richest 0.4% of people in the US are not richer than the other 99.6% of us because they worked harder. The hardest working people I have ever known in my life were paid crap wages - and they have hearts that are open the size of the grand canyon. Using a call for "freedom" to mask greed and selfishness is a thin disguise that anyone operating from compassion sees through in an instant. I see you.

    Dennis


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    Default Re: The Reset Button Movement

    Removed for Dennis
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    Default Re: The Reset Button Movement

    Removed for Dennis though this document is only for you if you are a collectivist.
    Last edited by risveglio; 21st January 2014 at 19:26.

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    Default Re: The Reset Button Movement

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    I will tell you something one-to-one on a personal level: the time for selfish thinking on this planet is over. The world is moving away from competition and towards cooperation. Selfish people are part of the old paradigm. The richest 0.4% of people in the US are not richer than the other 99.6% of us because they worked harder. The hardest working people I have ever known in my life were paid crap wages - and they have hearts that are open the size of the grand canyon. Using a call for "freedom" to mask greed and selfishness is a thin disguise that anyone operating from compassion sees through in an instant. I see you.

    Dennis
    I couldn't agree more with you. Just this morning I saw on the news a corporate head, of a Texas telemarketing firm under investigation for violating the "Do Not Call List" law (yet again), climb into his $200,000+ Yellow Ferrari with a license plate that read "EARNED" and I wanted to vomit. If it wasn't so disgusting it would be laughable that greedy, corrupt, self-centered clowns like this seriously believe they've "earned" what they have; while truly hard working souls lose their homes, farms, families or can barely keep their head above water. A new paradigm is definitely what is needed.

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    Default Re: The Reset Button Movement

    Quote Posted by risveglio (here)
    I am not trying to fear monger. I have pointed out where I have a problem with your site. If by signing the reset button, I am only signing

    to take governance away from corporations and put it in the hands of citizens.

    than put that where I sign.

    My grandfather told me he saw 3 of his closest friends sign a petition in support of Mussolini. It was meaningless as Mussolini already had control. I asked him why did they sign it and he told me it was because they did not like the King. What they signed was far worse.

    I agree that "the time for selfish thinking on this planet is over. The world is moving away from competition and towards cooperation. Selfish people are part of the old paradigm. The richest 0.4% of people in the US are not richer than the other 99.6% of us because they worked harder." not with the rest. I just think it is better when compassion comes from the individual and not mandated from the state. Is the person with no compassion not free to live his journey on this rock?
    Quote Posted by risveglio (here)
    I am also not trolling. I think people should understand what they are signing. I have just asked basic questions, maybe at times tried to play devil's advocate and maybe at times challenged your thoughts. You are the one that gets very offensive. I could have said from what you have written that you are an obvious victim of indoctrination by the United States Education System but I did not.

    I see some Socialism in the FAQ and an unjustified attack of capitalism. That is all I called you out on. I don't know if you should be writing out step 1 of the reset if you can't take any criticism.

    Yes, I believe we should get money out of politics and if that is all i would be signing with the reset button, that is fine. But, I can sign GOOOH petitions and Dylan Ratigan's stuff for that.

    I think idea of all congressman/woman getting elected at one time is a bad one. I also question whether you meant a corporate employee and if so why not a government employee? Was that trolling? Or trying to rattle you up? Are you above being rattled up Mr Leahy?
    Calling me "Mr. Leahy" is passive-aggressive. I have never called myself that at Avalon.

    I did sign The Reset Button using my full name. That's my real name. It isn't about ego, it is about standing up, refusing to remain anonymous. The middle initial on the document is because "Dennis Leahy" is a relatively common, Irish name. I actually got a ride, hitchhiking across the US many years ago, by another Dennis Leahy. There is also a prominent lawyer, a physician, and a mathematician all of the same name, all with prominent Internet presence. Now NSA knows which one to target.

    " I could have said from what you have written that you are an obvious victim of indoctrination by the United States Education System but I did not." Um, yes, you just did. More passive-aggressive stuff.

    "I am not trying to fear monger." Well, then you are not trying very hard. You are leaving the impression that you see hidden "evil" and "danger" in The Reset Button. That is fear-mongering. The only people who should be fearful of The Reset Button are greedy bastards, fascists, corporatists. And, since you publicly posted it (rather than PM me), it is an attempt to influence others.

    Your attempts to quantify what the "danger" is never quotes the words from The Reset Button, not even a paraphrase, but rather is a conclusion you have fabricated. The conclusions appear to be based on the supposition that if The Reset Button's one Act and one Amendment became law, that you would lose personal freedom, and you have hinted that loss would be your freedom to engage in anarcho-capitalism - unrestricted capitalism. After witnessing what has happened to planet Earth and her people by unrestricted capitalism, that's where you want to place your emphasis? And call it freedom?


    The Reset Button is not for you. Don't sign it. You have expressed (can't remember if it was this thread or some other) that you fear democracy, and went into the old psychological ploy about "mob rule." The Reset Button still supports exactly the same system of government (constitutional republic) that we already theoretically have, but having actual citizens in power, a government of the people, by the people would quite likely lean away from a government "for the corporations" (and toward "for the people.") Real representation is much closer to democracy than we have ever experienced, maybe too close for your comfort.

    Other than a monarchy or dictatorship or a 100% democracy, there is always going to be a cluster, a group, a "mob" that makes determinations for everyone in that society. A small "mob" of loyal lapdogs, hand-picked by corporations now runs the US government, and yet you express the notion that "mob" rule of citizens would be even worse. We don't know in the US - we've never actually had a representative government. But I do know what we have now stinks to high heaven.

    If you do the research, you'll find that since day one, the rich have always been represented, not a cross-section of citizens. The US is at a crisis point. We are by far the most malevolent force on the planet, environmentally, imperialistically (including genocide, cultural genocide, wholesale destruction and mayhem.) Not you and I, but in our names, the corporate representatives that make the laws, adjudicate the laws, and hold executive positions have destroyed anything and everything (and everyone) in their path to infinite wealth and power. A thousand years from now, the corruption and collusion peak that seems to have made a great leap in 1963 and peaked about 1988 through 2012 will be listed as a significant "dark" period of US and world history.

    Fears are irrational 'things' and can't be removed by logic alone. You apparently fear democracy, or you echo the "mob rule" fear of democracy. You extend that through a chain of events leading to becoming an unsuccessful capitalist, unjustly crippled by restrictions that would destroy the economy. Who knows just where the US might head if regular folks were running the show. It is the great unknown. But, since these regular folks will not be making decisions to line their own pockets, I think your fears are well-founded: these ordinary citizens in positions of representation just might actually clamp down on industries and say they cannot dump mercury in the water anymore! That would mean less profit, stock values would go down... maybe even ending up ruining the economy! For those that place the economy in paramount position, more important than stuff like human life and suffering, non-human life and suffering, best bet is to stick with the system we have.

    Anarcho-capitalism, unrestricted capitalism is not really about freedom, it is about greed.

    "I just think it is better when compassion comes from the individual and not mandated from the state. "

    You're right, it would be better if compassion came from individuals rather than having to mandate corporations to follow laws to approximate some teeny level of the effect of compassion. How much evidence do you need to see that corporate boards don't exemplify your happy thoughts? I'm flabbergasted. Gobsmacked. That anyone could watch Big Pharma, Big Ag, Big Finance, Big Insurance, Big Banks, Big Media, and all the other Big megacorporate empires (not theoretical, the ones we live with) and think in terms of corporations showing compassion. They are killing us. Literally. They have taken over our food supply. They are addicting us to their pharmaceuticals. And they still don't give a rat's ass.

    " Is the person with no compassion not free to live his journey on this rock? "
    Wow. That's a zinger.
    Well, so far, they own the vast majority of the wealth, have us as debt slaves, are poisoning us, they start wars and use us a gladiators for their pleasure and profit, and are in complete control. How much more fun do you want to allocate to them? Or to more directly answer your question, I'm OK with sociopaths, but not psychopaths - meaning, someone can be devoid of compassion and not hurt anyone or anything, fine. But when lack of compassion - sociopathy - is acted out on others and becomes psychopathy... you can write my name in the "do NOT approve" column.

    "I see some Socialism in the FAQ and an unjustified attack of capitalism"
    Is that so? www.resetbutton2012.org/Documents/ResetButtonFull.pdf#page=118

    And once again, very clearly I say that what I just pointed to is just a topic. Just a topic showing one opinion, to start the debate on that one issue . One opinion. Perhaps every singe one of the 1500 or so key positions in government will be filled with people who strongly disagree with the opinion expressed. So don't let yourself get too worked up if you disagree with ANYTHING and EVERYTHING in the "Phase II" part of The Reset Button. Just topics. Topics that candidates would not be able to ignore. You would know where each candidate stood on this topic, and the degree to which they agree or disagree with the opening argument presented.

    (And if you had read my opinion, you'd know that your statement above is misleading and false. Virtually every socialist I have met wants socialism with no capitalism at all. Is that the view I presented? (Even though my view doesn't matter at all, it just primes the pump for discussion.)

    Yes, I believe we should get money out of politics and if that is all i would be signing with the reset button, that is fine. But, I can sign GOOOH petitions and Dylan Ratigan's stuff for that.
    Do it. Sign petitions, call your local corporate representative, scream at the castle walls. It has all been done before, and it will not work. GOOOH could, at very best, get a teeny tiny, statistically insignificant number of Reps in the house. Maybe. I suspect more like 1 to 3 at most. Any plan that does not win 268 Representatives simultaneously, not serially, cannot affect policy. Green, Coffee, Libertarian, Peace and Freedom, GOOOH... it doesn't matter - all 3rd parties will suffer the same fate. You don't have to be a statistical wizard to recognize that not only are ALL media owned by Democrats and Republicans, probably over 80% of the country identifies with those 2 parties, and can easily be frightened into voting for one of them using the gambit of showing the other major contender as both a monster and the presumed winner "unless we all stick to our party." You're not alone in your naivete on this. I don't know how many voting cycles people have to go through before the pattern emerges. 3rd parties cannot win against the entrenched system and media. The only possible answer is to effectively eliminate all political parties.

    I think idea of all congressman/woman getting elected at one time is a bad one.
    I think having people in power creates an advantage over the "freshmen" coming in, and freshmen looking up to or bending to the will of those who are already in power. It is simple, human psychology. The idea is to have no one with an advantage, everyone on the same level.

    I also question whether you meant a corporate employee and if so why not a government employee?
    "Employee" has nothing to do with it, as I already said. Walmart has 2 million employees, how many do you think are corporate officers or own stock? The ones who own stock or are corporate board members have an umbilicus back to the corporation. Those few people could not vote on the Floor of Congress, or be the judge in a trial, or be a cabinet member or appointee and be unbiased. They cannot serve the American people unbiased, then they are not allowed to serve. Additionally, to prevent an elected or appointed official (legislators, primarily) from "feathering a nest", elected and appointed officials would not be allowed to become a corporate board member or buy stock for 5 years after serving. The vast majority of US citizens are NOT on corporate boards and own no stock at all. Of the citizens who own stock, if they wanted to run for office, they would have to sell their stocks, so they could be unbiased.

    Are you above being rattled up Mr Leahy?
    Nope. I can be rattled. I am very passionate about this, and feel you have been disingenuous and misleading, deliberately.This really is not about me, even if you want to make sport of it and keep trying or even succeeding in rattling me. I am just a person that went far enough through life waiting for someone, anyone to do something that worked, and no one did. I did take the time to research the corrupt system, take the best ideas from the most brilliant minds, add some raw honey and stirred. The Reset Button is not me. It is a document, and it contains the wisdom of a lot of people. Because it is (as far as I know) the only plan that actually tried to find every pathway that the financial elite uses to control elections, and block all of them simultaneously, I am convinced it is the only possible plan that could work. There is a group of diligent, hard working activists working on getting Citizens United negated. If they succeed (by 2014 or 2016, at the very earliest), then the financial Elite will only have 8 ways to control elections instead of 9.

    So, warts and all, The Reset Button is the only plan that could possibly get corporations out of control and citizens in control. I just gave up a large part of the last approximately 2-1/2 years to research and assemble and write and edit the document, including a plan and a strategy to force the unwilling current corporate lapdogs to make the one amendment and one act into law. I won't do it again, and I don't see anyone else trying to put together a comprehensive approach. This is it. Support it, continue on a path (screaming at the castle walls and/or voting for 3rd parties) that Einstein would call insanity, or relax and enjoy your corporate masters, because it's going to get even more intimate - real soon.

    Dennis


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    Default Re: The Reset Button Movement

    Removed for Dennis.
    Last edited by risveglio; 21st January 2014 at 19:25.

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    Default Re: The Reset Button Movement

    Dennis,

    Have you heard of the organization called GOOOH? It's a plan to evict all 438 members out of the House of Representatives and replace them with every day citizens like you and I. The founder is Tim Cox of Liberty Bell, Texas. I think you will like what this guy has been doing for many years. He has taken the special interest money out of the election process and created a program where every day people can participate in choosing who they want to run for office. It's the purest program out there that I have seen. I'm actually the founder of the GOOOH chapter in my state and when I first launched it over here it was well received by the people. Personally I think this process should be put in place for all elected positions, which is what I suggested to Tim, but of course you have to start somewhere, you can't bite off more than you can chew. Tim said he wanted to start with the House as that is where the bills are suppose to originate from, but of course we know that doesn't always happen. Anyway, check it out, I think you will like what you see....You might even be able to piggy back off of his concept by filling in the gaps in the areas he isn't able to cover. I think what you're attempting to do is very similar to what he as done so this would save you time from having to reinvent the wheel so to speak. I could be wrong as I have not read all of this thread or gone completely through your site, but initially this is what I'm seeing. Great job!

    www.goooh.com (stands for GET OUT OF OUR HOUSE)
    Last edited by we-R-one; 28th April 2012 at 06:43.

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