Liberation, An Interview with Adyashanti

[another bob]

Question: How did awakening and liberation occur for you?

Adyashanti: I had my first what traditionally would be called
awakening experience when I was 25 years old. This was very powerful
and full of emotion and release and joy and bliss and all that it is
supposed to be full of. But, because there was so much emotion
involved, it obscured the simplicity of awakeness itself. Like so
many others, I continued to chase certain ideas and concepts of what
awakeness was supposed to be. That caused years of misery. Gradually
over time I had the same experience reoccur, but each time with less
and less emotion. I could see more and more clearly over time what
was the actual essential element. Then finally an awakening occurred
where at the moment of awakening, there was no emotion in it. It was
just the pure seeing of what is. When there was the pure seeing of
what is, unclouded by emotional content, it was obvious. It was very
obvious that consciousness recognized itself for what it really is
– aware space before any emotion or thought or manifestation.

Question: Would you say that this is the point at which the
distinction between awakening and liberation occurred?

Adyashanti: No. Even though there was a freedom and incredible sense
of fearlessness and release from not being confined to the dream of a
separate "I", I started to feel somewhat discontented with that. I
didn't know why I felt discontented, and it didn't bother me in any
way. The discontent didn't touch that freedom, so it didn't bother
me, but I was interested in it.

Then one day I was sitting reading a book, and I folded the book to
put it away and realized that somewhere in some magic time, something
had dropped away, and I didn't know what it was. There was just a big
absence of something. I went through the rest of the day as usual but
noticing some big absence. Then when I sat down on the bed that
night, it suddenly hit me that what had fallen away was all identity.
All identity had collapsed, as both the self in the ego sense of a
separate me, and as the slightest twinge of identity with the
Absolute Self, with the Oneness of consciousness. There had still
been some unconscious, identity or "me-ness" which was the cause of
the discontent. And it all collapsed. Identity itself collapsed, and
from that point on there was no grasping whatsoever for little me or
for the unified consciousness me. Identity just fell away and blew
away with the wind.

Question: When you noticed that the identity had collapsed and was
gone, what remained?

Adyashanti: Everything just as it always had been. There was just the
lack of any "I", personal or universal, or the fundamental
unconscious belief in any identity or of fixating self in any place.
The mind can continue to fixate a subtle identity of self even in
universal consciousness, or Self. It can be so incredibly easy to miss.
To say "I am That" can be a very subtle fixation of consciousness.

Question: It's still a landing, a form of identity.

Adyashanti: it's a slight landing, a slight grasping. It's very
subtle. But when it collapses, you are even beyond "I am That". You
are in a place that cannot be described.

Question: And that is what you call liberation?

Adyashanti: That is what I call liberation. Really, in the end, what
you end up with is that you don't know who you are. You end up in the
same place you started out. You truly don't know who you are because
it's impossible to fixate the self anywhere.

Question: But this not knowing is not the same as ignorance.

Adyashanti: It's not the same not knowing of ignorance. It's the not
knowing that comes from recognizing that the whole issue of a self,
personal or absolute, is fantasy. Both the self and the Self are
interpretations upon perception, and nothing more. And when the
interpretation ends, thought ends. When all identity collapses, you
abide in the unknown. There is no tendency left to fixate identity
anywhere - even in a universal somewhere. So, you are left resting in
the mystery as the mystery. It is only then that you can be truly and
absolutely free of all concerns. There is nothing to say. What can
you say? There is nothing to say.

[Eram]

Posted by another bob (here)
There was just a big
absence of something. I went through the rest of the day as usual but
noticing some big absence. Then when I sat down on the bed that
night, it suddenly hit me that what had fallen away was all identity.
All identity had collapsed, as both the self in the ego sense of a
separate me, and as the slightest twinge of identity with the
Absolute Self, with the Oneness of consciousness. There had still
been some unconscious, identity or "me-ness" which was the cause of
the discontent. And it all collapsed. Identity itself collapsed, and
from that point on there was no grasping whatsoever for little me or
for the unified consciousness me. Identity just fell away and blew
away with the wind.

Hi Bob,

I once returned from a visit to the bathroom in a movie theatre back to the movie and suddenly I started to doubt that I entered the right movie room.
This doubt created a big collapse of everything I was sure about and suddenly there was no sense of self or identity left. I was total blanc for a minute. I was like a baby born with no concept of what so ever. I panicked and really had to force myself to get all my memory and sense of identity back. It took me a while.

Are you telling me that I shouldn't have panicked, but have seen it as an enlightenment?



No but seriously,
I guess this thread is meant as a guideline for people not to get carried away too much when they have their first moment of awakening in a new awareness isn't it?


Well,
I am far from that point, so I have a more simple dilemma:
I've read some testimonies of people getting enlightened lately and I have been building a question about it.
When people talk about enlightening, there is often talk about getting rid of the emotions, or even killing the emotional body like Don Miguel Ruiz does.

Drunvalo Melchizedeck was my fist teacher about understandings that transcended the every day life, and he told about the E.T. race of the greys or grays. That they lost their emotional body in their evolution and that it was a big problem for them that prevented them to evolve any further then the point that they were at now. That was also their main reason to get involved with people on earth. To create a hybrid race combining their and our DNA.

To be true. It scares me a bit when people start talking about getting rid of all their emotions or their emotional body.

What can you say in relation to this fear?

[another bob]

Posted by Wakytweaky (here)
It scares me a bit when people start talking about getting rid of all their emotions or their emotional body.

What can you say in relation to this fear?

Greetings, my Friend!

Emotions are downloaded programs that enable us to more fully enjoy this juicy human experience. There is nothing wrong with them, and they certainly do not need to be eliminated. The only problem (entanglement) comes when we cling to some and avoid others, thus creating a sense of a separate and enduring self, a "me", a fragile critter attempting to survive in a world of other toothy selves.

This imaginary creation invariably turns out to be a major source of suffering, which is why some folks are (mistakenly) down on emotions. However, emotions themselves were never the problem, just the fixation of identity in any of them, to the point of construing some sort of fictional and independent self-image.

On the other hand, when they arise as they will, we do not need to grant them any enduring reality, but just recognize them for what they are -- temporary modifications of consciousness, with no inherent substantiality. They are not us, they are not who we are, and they do not constitute evidence for any actual self.

The same goes for thought, perception, sensation, and even consciousness. See through them, watch them rise and dissolve, revealing themselves for what they are. Let them be just that, without trying to add or substract anything from them. Any experience that comes to us is a gift, but not to hoard, not to serve as a basis for fantasy conclusions -- just to experience. Period.

Having recognized the ephemeral nature of all experience -- whether it be in the form of emotion, thought, perception, sensation, or consciousness -- we can relax. When we relax, we are freed of all associated binding yadda, such as fear, stress, annoyance, and moodiness. Having been thus liberated from said binding yadda, we can say, "Released!", and move on to the next scene in the movie.

[Eram]

Thanks Bob,

That was very enlightening .

So today was the most beautiful day I've ever experienced in this life.
I'd like to tell something about that and maybe someone can explain to me what happened.

I lay in bed until late this morning. It was my turn today, but as usual I wasn't getting much sleep, because I was too awake, thanks to 30 minutes of jumping on our bed from my two kids (1,5 and 4 years), who now were on their way to being dressed and fed.

I was thinking about this video that I saw yesterday from a post from jorr lundstrom. I can't find it now, but it was from a negro enlighted man who spoke about the identifying from people who were searching the truth, with their opinions, and that this is holding them down of course.
So I started to think about that identifying process and suddenly all sorts of items came to mind that the ego identifies with.
the will, impatience, memories, safety networks, imago... lots and lots of those things.

And while I was thinking about it, I felt as like this was soo easy to let go of. I thought to myself: "This is a peace of cake, I can do this letting go of identification with this stuff. This is a game that I can play"
I became pretty enthusiast about it, so I went out of bed and got up to the kitchen were the family was having breakfast.
Bye this time I was so filled with this new realisation, that it was like my whole body was filled with joy and happiness and it kept growing and growing for a while.

I felt so filled with love, joy and happiness that it felt like the internal stereo for feelings was put from 2 to 37. That's how much difference there was with daily life feelings.

My Girlfriend and kids picked up on it and we had the most joyful breakfast ever with lots of laughter, songs, jokes and giggles.

After breakfast, my son and me went to a nearby city to do groceries and after that a visit to the swimming pool as promised.
I kept feeling this good and there was also understandings about lots of things.
In the supermarket there was this lady who looked like she jumped out the television series from "keeping up appearances" and she moved her shopping cart in front of mine in the line for the cash register when I just took something extra to put in the cart.
All I did was looking at her with a deep deep feeling of compassion for her. I felt her struggle for life and I felt how she never never experiences happiness. How painful must her life be.

Later on in the swimming pool, people came up to me for a talk and I mean, lots of people and this is very unusual, because I'm not that kind of person normally. It felt great to talk to these people.

The weird thing was. I felt lots of things going on in my persona that was business as usual, like getting impatience when my son was lingering, but I just looked at it and didn't feel much need to act on it.

In the end of the day this feeling or awareness, I don't know how to call it, was fading away, but I still feel pretty good actually.

Just now, sitting behind the computer I said to myself. " Lets watch a video from this Adyashanti (which I never heard about before this thread) and let my hand guide me to one that will explain me what happened today."
and this is the video I got to see:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=eECJCIkhxc4

So... could it be that my unborn nature was shining through today?

Anyway. I still believe that this process of letting go of identifying with al these items, is my game. I can do this. I will do this.
It's fun and liberating.

much happiness!

Waky

[another bob]

Posted by Wakytweaky (here)
So... could it be that my unborn nature was shining through today?

Sure!

I still believe that this process of letting go of identifying with al these items, is my game. I can do this. I will do this.
It's fun and liberating.

much happiness!

Waky

The sincere and persistent effort eventually comes to be effortless, and then comes spontaneity.

Thank you for sharing your wonderful day, and insights, my Friend!

[greybeard]

It would seem there is no pronoun left but all beyond the understnding of the intelect.

chris

[another bob]

Posted by greybeard (here)
It would seem there is no pronoun left but all beyond the understnding of the intelect.

chris

"Is there a world outside your knowledge? Can you go beyond what you know? You may postulate a world beyond the mind, but it will remain a concept, unproved and unprovable. Your experience is your proof, and it is valid for you only. Who else can have your experience, when the other person is only as real as he appears in your experience? In reality nothing happens, there is no past nor future; all appears and nothing is."

~ Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

[<8>]

Hi guys..

I loved it all,

what can I say, more than how much I appreciate the level of consciousness here.

..8..

[greybeard]

Posted by another bob (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
It would seem there is no pronoun left but all beyond the understnding of the intelect.

chris

"Is there a world outside your knowledge? Can you go beyond what you know? You may postulate a world beyond the mind, but it will remain a concept, unproved and unprovable. Your experience is your proof, and it is valid for you only. Who else can have your experience, when the other person is only as real as he appears in your experience? In reality nothing happens, there is no past nor future; all appears and nothing is."

~ Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Would thoughtless awareness be an appropriate discription Bob?
Adyshanti says in the video posted here--- view points are born nature, in our unborn nature we are exactly the same--we are all one.

Its all levels---- Nasargadatta said he is neither conscious nor unconscious.
Assuming its true that "In reality nothing happens, there is no past nor future; all appears and nothing is."
then there is nothing to experience. At lower levels ie maniifest yes there is but thats consciousness at play-- the cosmic dance.

It is difficult to get context when different levels are being put in the same quote. Sages do that.

Regards Chris

[Bhusunda]

Thanks for sharing this Another Bob.
I really enjoyed this interview and it gave me some understanding of whats going on, just at the right time.
It happens rather often lately, that when I look to Avalon, I always find what I have lost or what I am seeking, consciously or unconsciously.
I really love your posts!

Thanks a lot,
Bhusunda

[another bob]

Posted by greybeard (here)

Posted by another bob (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
It would seem there is no pronoun left but all beyond the understnding of the intelect.

chris

"Is there a world outside your knowledge? Can you go beyond what you know? You may postulate a world beyond the mind, but it will remain a concept, unproved and unprovable. Your experience is your proof, and it is valid for you only. Who else can have your experience, when the other person is only as real as he appears in your experience? In reality nothing happens, there is no past nor future; all appears and nothing is."

~ Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Would thoughtless awareness be an appropriate discription Bob?
Adyshanti says in the video posted here--- view points are born nature, in our unborn nature we are exactly the same--we are all one.

Its all levels---- Nasargadatta said he is neither conscious nor unconscious.
Assuming its true that "In reality nothing happens, there is no past nor future; all appears and nothing is."
then there is nothing to experience. At lower levels ie maniifest yes there is but thats consciousness at play-- the cosmic dance.

It is difficult to get context when different levels are being put in the same quote. Sages do that.

Regards Chris

Hiya Chris!

Descriptions are tools for the discursive mind, but the experience of reality cannot be encapsulated by words, which are concepts, obscurations, which experience directly transcends. For example, during my NDE, it was crystal clear that nothing happens, nothing has ever happened, and nothing ever will happen. Anandamayi Ma says, "In Reality, nothing happens! It is a great gift to be able to understand this; if you perceive this, you are blessed, for inner vision has been granted to you." However, in the midst of this vision, there is nothing to be blessed, there is nothing. Even to say that is too much.

So, there is a paradox, because upon returning to human consciousness, there appears to be something happening, so how to resolve this paradox? You can't. The one who wants to resolve it is the one who stands in the way. Trying to wrap the mind around it all is the source of seeking, but when the struggle to figure it all out dissolves, there is no problem. Nothing to be filed as figured out. Whether there is anything or nothing has all the significance of a summer breeze. There is a Self, there is no Self. Who cares? There is just this. Our only contact with reality is just this, right now. Everythig else is a fantasy, an interpretation on perception.

Blessings!

[Jenci]

Posted by another bob (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)

Posted by another bob (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
It would seem there is no pronoun left but all beyond the understnding of the intelect.

chris

"Is there a world outside your knowledge? Can you go beyond what you know? You may postulate a world beyond the mind, but it will remain a concept, unproved and unprovable. Your experience is your proof, and it is valid for you only. Who else can have your experience, when the other person is only as real as he appears in your experience? In reality nothing happens, there is no past nor future; all appears and nothing is."

~ Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

Would thoughtless awareness be an appropriate discription Bob?
Adyshanti says in the video posted here--- view points are born nature, in our unborn nature we are exactly the same--we are all one.

Its all levels---- Nasargadatta said he is neither conscious nor unconscious.
Assuming its true that "In reality nothing happens, there is no past nor future; all appears and nothing is."
then there is nothing to experience. At lower levels ie maniifest yes there is but thats consciousness at play-- the cosmic dance.

It is difficult to get context when different levels are being put in the same quote. Sages do that.

Regards Chris

Hiya Chris!

Descriptions are tools for the discursive mind, but the experience of reality cannot be encapsulated by words, which are concepts, obscurations, which experience directly transcends. For example, during my NDE, it was crystal clear that nothing happens, nothing has ever happened, and nothing ever will happen. Anandamayi Ma says, "In Reality, nothing happens! It is a great gift to be able to understand this; if you perceive this, you are blessed, for inner vision has been granted to you." However, in the midst of this vision, there is nothing to be blessed, there is nothing. Even to say that is too much.

So, there is a paradox, because upon returning to human consciousness, there appears to be something happening, so how to resolve this paradox? You can't. The one who wants to resolve it is the one who stands in the way. Trying to wrap the mind around it all is the source of seeking, but when the struggle to figure it all out dissolves, there is no problem. Nothing to be filed as figured out. Whether there is anything or nothing has all the significance of a summer breeze. There is a Self, there is no Self. Who cares? There is just this. Our only contact with reality is just this, right now. Everythig else is a fantasy, an interpretation on perception.

Blessings!

There's no point to any of it.

It's quite simple really. Only complicated by a mind that needs a meaning to life, to happiness, to suffering, to lessons, to enlightenment, to liberation,......... to all of this.

It's complicated by a mind's need to explain or to understand....but really there is no point.


Jeanette

[another bob]

Posted by Jenci (here)
It's complicated by a mind's need to explain or to understand....but really there is no point.

Right, fabricating "points" (meaning) is always after the fact, ie fantasies of interpretation on perception.

[Dorjezigzag]

Thanks for that Bob,
I feel a connection to that,
It has given me food for thought which I shall ponder!

[another bob]

“When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom.
When I see I am everything, that is love.
Between these two my life flows.”
~ Sri Nisargadatta


Clinging to a belief in and experience of the concept of nondual attainment, the would-be “enlightened” tend to presume a shield of invulnerability, thereby imaginatively separating truth from life. All the while, the chest emblem on the costume of such wry knowing becomes a glaring bulls-eye for the arrow of Love that is irrevocably speeding towards its target. Without being undone by this Love, truth becomes an abstraction – cool, analytical – disconnected from relationship.

Each of us has a "core story" that is relatively impervious to even profound awakenings. It is what returns us again and again to incarnation in this realm, and it will make use of even our "enlightenments" to maintain itself. To penetrate this subtle and tightly-held sense of “me and mine” is rare enough, but to actually manifest true liberation in each moment of our daily life is almost unheard of, and yet that is the vocation of our birth, as consciousness evolves within awareness and presses from the formless into form for the sake of its own revelation.

It has never been about "getting it right", but about getting it "real". Nor can the sense of a separate and enduring self be ushered into reality by the arrogance of mind that presumes itself beyond the body. There is something that wants to get down below the neck, but the last thing allowed into heaven is our human-ness. However, if it’s not connected to the body, it is not true surrender, but just a switching of allegiances in the mind.

Attachment to a mental "enlightenment" ultimately does not even satisfy the mind that was assumed to have been transcended, any more than reliance on the words of spiritual authorities finally satisfies the secret yearning fervor of the religious believer. Nevertheless, both strategies of recoil from life tend to persist until interrupted by Grace.

There is a beam of irresistible Love, and it is homing even now on that emblem that would shield the heart from piercing. All hearts are speared at last by unaccountable transmission of Love, and so it is and was and always shall be. The most one can do is to prepare oneself to receive such grace through a relentless and broken-open humility.

[bearcow]

simply reverting back to one's true nature is the path of dissolution, it dis-empowers the individual Skandhas developed by the personality over countless lifetimes and creates a release from samsara by transforming the self into non- being. there is no self left to become enlightened, because the self has been dissolved into the stream of spirit from which it came. In this path, the "you" that most people see themselves to be no longer exists. I think perhaps most Buddhist's don't really get that. If that's what you want, there's nothing wrong with it, but you will never become a jesus or buddha solely by focusing on this path, because you have not encapsulated emptiness within a energy framework suitable for its expression in the material world. I see this time and time again in spiritual circles. People are meditating to escape the physical world, and by doing this, weaken their capacity to be a living expression for the divine creative principle.

The sophistication, power, and beauty of Mozart's music represents a specific expression of the divine mind made into semi-material substance. Without the refinement of his own unique personality traits over many lifetimes, the divine mind would have no outlet to express its grandeur in form. Similarly, when jesus said you will do greater things than i, he meant that mankind will become more and more refined expressions of the divine principle as time goes on.

[another bob]

Posted by bearcow (here)
People are meditating to escape the physical world, and by doing this, weaken their capacity to be a living expression for the divine creative principle.

You got it!

Thank you, Bearcow!

[Jenci]

Posted by another bob (here)

Each of us has a "core story" that is relatively impervious to even profound awakenings. It is what returns us again and again to incarnation in this realm, and it will make use of even our "enlightenments" to maintain itself. To penetrate this subtle and tightly-held sense of “me and mine” is rare enough, but to actually manifest true liberation in each moment of our daily life is almost unheard of, and yet that is the vocation of our birth, as consciousness evolves within awareness and presses from the formless into form for the sake of its own revelation.

This core story is so important, Bob.

Adyashanti also says that this "core story" will remain despite most awakenings, like a broken record stuck in a groove, keeping us coming back from incarnation to incarnation and when you think that it is the core story which is the purpose of the incarnation is it not surprising that it can still remain despite awakening.

Adya also says that the story itself, not just the person, needs to awaken.

The story can be very subtle and cleverly disguise itself as it manifests in the personality and life situations.

But seeing the story is not enough, it does need to awaken as well otherwise it will continue to be the driving force in the incarnation.

My experience of this core story was not pleasant. Attached to the story itself was a lot of emotional pain buried very deep. As the pain was expressed and released I realised it was lifetimes worth of pain. Although this process was very difficult it was tremendously cleansing.

It was very liberating