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Thread: Report that USA rejoined International Criminal Court

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    United States Avalon Member GlassSteagallfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Important! American War Criminals Can Now Be Prosecuted! US Rejoins ICC!

    Quote Posted by truth4me (here)
    Quote Posted by Paladin14 (here)
    Wouldn't it be great if Wilcock was right about Obama being one of the good guys. I like to think its still a possibility, maybe he had to do the bidding of the powers that be first. Maybe this is the start of the real change.

    I think the whole Ron Paul movement and the media's blackout of him is making a lot of people wake up. I see the cleansing of corruption an inevitability, a natural evolution. People don't want to be slaves, and the more ridiculous the powers that be get, the more people will naturally take notice and wake up from their brainwashing.

    I posted this article yesterday in the Bill Ryan will eat his hat- guaranteed thread, but I don't think anyone read it or just ignored it, kept talking about the eating of the hat. Hopefully the white hats start cleaning house.
    I just don't buy Obama being one of the good guys.
    Obama can be anything. It is a matter of who is controlling him

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    Avalon Member Maia Gabrial's Avatar
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    Default Re: USA back into the fold?

    Quote There are no grounds to prosecute Obama for anything, certainly not at the ICC.
    Dream on, sdv.....

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    Avalon Member kcbc2010's Avatar
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    Default Re: USA back into the fold?

    Quote Posted by sdv (here)
    Quote Obama is only safe until after he LOSES the election. Then he'll be fair game for prosecution. He's a traitor and he'll stand trial for what he's done...
    There are no grounds to prosecute Obama for anything, certainly not at the ICC.

    Wow.....Let's see, Libya. Gitmo's still open. Signed the NDAA. We're still in Afghanistan. Obama's still carrying on a lot of the policies of GWB - so it's okay that the TSA is feeling up our elders and kiddos? A lot of the TARP bailout money went to prop up European banks. What did he mean by telling the Russian President, "just wait until after the election when I have more flexibility"? Was it just an accident that the Iranians got a hold of our latest drone technology? How about the way he bullied and pushed through Obama-Care w/o any sort of bipartisan support whatsoever?

    There's a pattern of behavior and it really doesn't help his cause that he actively hangs out and allies himself with people who are hell-bent on destroying America. Fast-and-Furious? The fact that his AG is pretty damn close to being charged with contempt by the House for refusing to allow a former employee to testify about what he knew/when. The fact that reasonable people still have questions about who this guy is and where he came from really doesn't bother you? That doesn't even get into most of what Ulsterman and others have found out about the guy/his associates.....seriously...

    It's one thing to be blinded by some sense of admiration/loyalty/partisanship, but it takes a lot of effort to justify not looking at the full-depth of someone's character and actions.

    You really can't go around assuming that because one political party is inherently bad, the other must be inherently good. That's how the elite trap us into fighting against each other and not against them. Everyone knows my biases by now, but I'm not dumb enough to think that everyone on "my side" is looking out for my best interests or the country's interest. All you have to do is look at the CISPA vote for that validation. I was actually kind of surprised that my D Congressman actually did something right/voted no on it. But because of redistricting, next year, my new "Congresscritter" is going to be the guy who sponsored it and thinks that it is a great idea. Needless to say, I can't wait to throw that guy out in 2014 because he will win his seat in 2012. So, those of us in the know are going to be working very hard to find a primary challenger for this critter, so we can show him the exit door in a couple of years. I'm not going to support someone just because they have an R by their name.

    Believe me, as someone who believed back in the day that GWB could do no wrong and that 9/11 couldn't possibly be an "inside job" and Iraq really did have "WMD's", it was scary when I started waking up to the fact that he and his actions weren't for the betterment of humanity. I can understand how that conflict just pierces your soul because you so want the old paradigm to be true, so that you won't have to adjust to a new mindset/reality. The fact that the Bush family has done so much harm to people really hurts my soul because it's not like the drugs/mind control/sex stuff is front page news - and I voted for him - and I was blind as a bat! So, I can appreciate how people can be blinded by even the idea that there could be a conflict between what you see and what you don't want to see.

    However, if we want to be free, then we need to be open to the idea that our assumptions about people/ideas can be wrong.

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    United States Avalon Member Rantaak's Avatar
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    Default Re: USA back into the fold?

    My friend says that ICC is all bad news, morally ambiguous, and generally destitute of justice.

    We shall see how it goes.

    Quaerendo Invenietis
    Mundus Vult Decipiatur
    Ergo Solve Et Coagula

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    United States Avalon Member Rantaak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Important! American War Criminals Can Now Be Prosecuted! US Rejoins ICC!

    There is another thread on this over here which I have commented on:
    http://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...-into-the-fold

    Perhaps the moderators can merge these threads or something.

    Quaerendo Invenietis
    Mundus Vult Decipiatur
    Ergo Solve Et Coagula

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    France Avalon Member Amzer Zo's Avatar
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    Default Re: USA back into the fold?

    From good ole' Doc John Coleman in his "Committee of 300" book:

    Quote We are close to the point where the United States will send its military Forces to settle any and all disputes brought before the United Nations. Departing Secretary General Perez de Cuellar, heavily laden with bribe money, was the most compliant U.N. leader in history in granting demands of the United States without discussion. His successor will be even more inclined to go along with whatever the U.S. government places before him. This is an important step along the road to a One World Government.

    The International Court of Justice at The Hague will be used in increasing measure in the next two years to settle legal arguments of all types.


    It is of course the prototype for a One World Government legal system that will supplant all others. As for central banks, essential in the planning of the New World Order, this is already very much a fait-accompli with the Bank of International Settlements dominating the scene at the close of 1991. Private banks are fast disappearing in preparation for the Big Ten banks that will control banking the world over under the guidance of BIS and the IMF.
    "La liberté de chacun s'arrête là où commence celle des autres"
    “There is a condition worse than blindness, and that is, seeing something that isn't there.” LRH

    The psycho's utter terror: "This universe is entirely composed -- but for one trivial exception -- of others."

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  11. Link to Post #27
    Avalon Member sdv's Avatar
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    Default Re: USA back into the fold?

    This is a reality check. Whether I like Obama or not is completely irrelevant to assessing if he is guilty, and of what, and can be prosecuted by the ICC or not.

    1. In general, you cannot prosecute someone because you do not like what they do or are against what they do. What law have they broken? That is what prosecution is about. What laws has Obama broken? If he has broken laws then take him to court and prosecute him.
    2. Educate yourselves about what the ICC is and what it does. Now tell me which countries, or which groups of people, have a case to take to the ICC against Obama? And what exactly is that case?

    I am not defending Obama; just stating facts, which are:

    Americans cannot take a case against anyone in their own country to the ICC unless they have exahusted all legal avenues in their own country.

    The ICC is there to investigate and prosecute major crimes against humanity, such as genocide, not that the international community does not care about other crimes, but there are other courts that deal with those. (Americans, show me the mass graves, thousands of people with limbs blown off by land mines, hundreds of thousands obliterated by nuclear bombs, and so on - in America.)

    Please do not insult those who have been murdered, maimed, raped, made homeless by acts of war and genocide by continuing to whine about the suffering of the American people. This makes you look like petulant children and thus reduces the chances of support for any kind of changes you want to make in America. Perhaps you don't think you need any kind of outside support and have faith that with your military power you can crush anyone to dust so you don't actually care because might is right.

    Apologies for being so rude. I do not mean it personally at all. I am just angry that after all the misery and suffering that America has inflicted on others (including to the soldiers that have to carry out these acts), Americans dare to simply see the ICC as a place to play out domestic grievances.

    And if you do care about the suffering inflicted on others then start with these two issues: go and remove all the landmines you have planted all over the world that still kill and maim people, and then pay compensation to every person who has been maimed or has lost a family member to your landmines. At home, make sure that every American soldier is given the help of the community to have counselling (whatever they need for however long they need it) and live a full and happy life as part of the community. Start with that.

    sdv
    Vita sans libris mors est.
    Our life is not measured in the number of breaths we take but in the moments that take our breath away!
    http://practicalpersonalcreativity.blogspot.com/

  12. Link to Post #28
    Avalon Member sdv's Avatar
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    Default Re: USA back into the fold?

    More information here on the ICC.

    http://www.globalpolicy.org/international-justice.html

    The GPF is left of liberal so many on this forum may see them as a bunch of commies and a threat, but ironically they echo much of what is said on this forum and the GPF does have legitimacy.

    Here's what the GPF is and what it does ...

    http://www.globalpolicy.org/about-gpf-mm.html
    Last edited by sdv; 5th May 2012 at 20:36.
    sdv
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    http://practicalpersonalcreativity.blogspot.com/

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    Default Re: USA back into the fold?

    Quote Posted by kcbc2010 (here)
    Quote Posted by sdv (here)
    Quote Obama is only safe until after he LOSES the election. Then he'll be fair game for prosecution. He's a traitor and he'll stand trial for what he's done...
    There are no grounds to prosecute Obama for anything, certainly not at the ICC.

    Wow.....Let's see, Libya. Gitmo's still open. Signed the NDAA. We're still in Afghanistan. Obama's still carrying on a lot of the policies of GWB - so it's okay that the TSA is feeling up our elders and kiddos? A lot of the TARP bailout money went to prop up European banks. What did he mean by telling the Russian President, "just wait until after the election when I have more flexibility"? Was it just an accident that the Iranians got a hold of our latest drone technology? How about the way he bullied and pushed through Obama-Care w/o any sort of bipartisan support whatsoever?

    There's a pattern of behavior and it really doesn't help his cause that he actively hangs out and allies himself with people who are hell-bent on destroying America. Fast-and-Furious? The fact that his AG is pretty damn close to being charged with contempt by the House for refusing to allow a former employee to testify about what he knew/when. The fact that reasonable people still have questions about who this guy is and where he came from really doesn't bother you? That doesn't even get into most of what Ulsterman and others have found out about the guy/his associates.....seriously...

    It's one thing to be blinded by some sense of admiration/loyalty/partisanship, but it takes a lot of effort to justify not looking at the full-depth of someone's character and actions.

    You really can't go around assuming that because one political party is inherently bad, the other must be inherently good. That's how the elite trap us into fighting against each other and not against them. Everyone knows my biases by now, but I'm not dumb enough to think that everyone on "my side" is looking out for my best interests or the country's interest. All you have to do is look at the CISPA vote for that validation. I was actually kind of surprised that my D Congressman actually did something right/voted no on it. But because of redistricting, next year, my new "Congresscritter" is going to be the guy who sponsored it and thinks that it is a great idea. Needless to say, I can't wait to throw that guy out in 2014 because he will win his seat in 2012. So, those of us in the know are going to be working very hard to find a primary challenger for this critter, so we can show him the exit door in a couple of years. I'm not going to support someone just because they have an R by their name.

    Believe me, as someone who believed back in the day that GWB could do no wrong and that 9/11 couldn't possibly be an "inside job" and Iraq really did have "WMD's", it was scary when I started waking up to the fact that he and his actions weren't for the betterment of humanity. I can understand how that conflict just pierces your soul because you so want the old paradigm to be true, so that you won't have to adjust to a new mindset/reality. The fact that the Bush family has done so much harm to people really hurts my soul because it's not like the drugs/mind control/sex stuff is front page news - and I voted for him - and I was blind as a bat! So, I can appreciate how people can be blinded by even the idea that there could be a conflict between what you see and what you don't want to see.

    However, if we want to be free, then we need to be open to the idea that our assumptions about people/ideas can be wrong.
    Majority of what you said is positively spot on, NDAA, gitomo, illegal rendition and bush era war policies are the same under Obama. That said I have to correct something with regards to the Healthcare reform act, while yes it was a huge giveaway to insurance companies please don't say it was "forced through without bipartisan support." Republicans have, as a party, made quite explicit their strategy was to undermine every single thing that could positively attributed to Obama. They want to make him a one-termer and because of that they will reflexively oppose anything he puts forward. You can see this with how lately he's been copy/pasting past Republican proposals together to sort of catch their bluff. (the original Jobs act for instance) The Healthcare act only passed because of some voting mechanics that temporarily allowed them to get around the filibuster and then budget reconciliation had to be used to finish the bill.

    While it's still just slapping a bandaid on the horrible US healthcare system, don't expect anything resembling bipartisan support during this congress. The problem we're facing right now is that electoral politics has gotten so nasty/polarized so fast that the two factions can't even work together to effectively feign gridlock and make the kabuki work anymore. Neither side wants to give an inch because they know if they do the other will take them for a mile and that may be a blessing in disguise. We may quickly see who, if anyone, still in congress actually cares about issues that affect people versus padding their coffers with special interest dollars.

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    Germany Moderator christian's Avatar
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    Default US re-joining ICC -- NOT?!

    A guest viewer of the forum sent an eMail with a very good point, saying that Gordon Duff through Veteran's Today is the only source for the alleged executive order signed by Obama that is supposed to facilitate the US re-joining the ICC. Virtually all other articles on the net referring to this executive order can in some way be traced back to info from the VT article.
    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/05...r-rogue-state/

    There is no mention of this order in the National Archives:
    http://www.archives.gov/federal-regi...ders/2012.html

    ---

    Btw: I mailed Gordon Duff before, when he published an article in which he claimed, that Stalin killed more Jews during the Holocaust than Hitler, saying most of the concentration camps in Eastern Europe were operated by the Soviets. I asked him, what his sources were, as there were no sources mentioned in the article, I never received a reply to that request.
    Last edited by christian; 12th May 2012 at 17:23.

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    France Avalon Member Amzer Zo's Avatar
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    Default Re: US re-joining ICC -- NOT?!

    Sorry that this does not answer your question to G. Duff, however, it gives an indication as to what is still extant in that part of the world:

    Quote Anatoly Sharansky’s Final Statement in the Soviet Court
    presented before being sentenced on trumped-up charges for treason and espionage, July 14, 1978

    (Sharansky addressed his first remarks to those who were not in the courtroom, his wife Avital who emigrated to Israel and the Jewish people):

    “During my interrogation the chief investigators threatened me that I might be executed by a firing squad, or imprisoned for at least fifteen years. But if I agreed to cooperate with the investigation for the purpose of destroying the Jewish emigration movement, they promised me freedom and a quick reunion with my wife.

    “Five years ago, I submitted my application for exit to Israel. Now I am further than ever from my dream. It would seem to be cause for regret. But it is absolutely the other way around. I am happy. I am happy that I lived honorably, at peace with my conscience. I never compromised my soul, even under the threat of death.

    “I am happy that I helped people. I am proud that I knew and worked with such honorable, brave and courageous people as Sakharov, Orlov, Ginzburg, who are carrying on the traditions of the Russian intelligentsia in defending human rights in the Soviet Union. I am fortunate to have been witness to the process of the liberation of Jews of the USSR.

    “I hope that the absurd accusation against me and the entire Jewish emigration movement will not hinder the liberation of my people. My near ones and friends know how I wanted to exchange activity in the emigration movement for a life with my wife Avital, in Israel.

    “For more than two thousand years the Jewish people, my people, have been dispersed. But wherever they are, wherever Jews are found, every year they have repeated: ‘Next year in Jerusalem.‘ Now, when I am further than ever from my people, from Avital, facing many arduous years of imprisonment, I say, turning to my people, my Avital, ’Next year in Jerusalem.’

    “Now I turn to you, the court, who were required to confirm a predetermined sentence: To you I have nothing to say.”

    However, since the same guy who funded the Bolchevick Revolution also funded Hitler and that paper trails indicate that the SS in charge of Auschwitz were on his payroll; I woudn't dismiss the allegations (see: this post).
    Last edited by Amzer Zo; 12th May 2012 at 18:26.
    "La liberté de chacun s'arrête là où commence celle des autres"
    “There is a condition worse than blindness, and that is, seeing something that isn't there.” LRH

    The psycho's utter terror: "This universe is entirely composed -- but for one trivial exception -- of others."

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