What can you forgive?

[Marin]

Just for the sake of discussion - let's assume mass arrests took place and members of the cabal were gathered up and put on trial. Given everything you've read, researched, discussed and experienced - could you forgive? Are there degrees to what you could forgive?

I'm guessing some of us have had a more challenging experience - at least this time around. My best guess, we've all been around the block a few times. We've all had experiences and events that have challenged us. Individually and collectively.

Please note: This is not a thread about mass arrests or what you'd like to see happen to members of the cabal. This is a thread about forgiveness....or the possibilities thereof. I'd like this to be an open and honest discussion. We all come with different backgrounds and experiences. Please provide members a chance to share their experiences and feelings in a respectful manner.

[<8>]

Hi Marin and thanks..

My view.

could you forgive? Are there degrees to what you could forgive?

I don't have to forgive anyone, it's just an experience. When you look at a movie you were really caught up in, do you forgive the actor playing the bad guy in the end?
We are all the same, but people is so caught up in the movie and believing that they are their body. And that is just fine, that's the experience you are here for.

Just take a step back and try to grasp the larger picture..

..8..

[Wind]

It is not up to us judge others, no matter what they have done. Judge a fellow man and you will judge yourself. Do you really undestand the meaning of that last sentence? Emotions, do not let them control you because that's what they are... Just emotions. Nothing more, nothing less.

Only when you have forgiven everyone and everything including yourself, you truly have started the path of enlightenment.

[christian]

I can forgive everything, makes me free as well. This does not mean, that I put up with everything.

This is out of the "Course in Miracles":

He, who would not forgive, must judge, for he must justify his failure to forgive. But he, who would forgive [himself], must learn to welcome truth exactly as it is.

This is out of "Becoming" from the "Handbook for the New Paradigm" series:

Responsibility and freedom are interchangeable terms.
Responsibility negates victim/abuser attitudes.
Power and permission are retained or given away by choice.

From another perspective, if there was no judgement in the first place, why is there any need to forgive?

[markpierre]

Excellent topic for discussion. Thanks for the opportunity.
And spot-on christian.
To break the paradigm that is the cause of suffering, you have to be willing to forgive anything and everything. Including EVERYONE.

Including YOURSELF for believing there's anything outside of you to forgive.
You may not want to, you may want to keep the idea that oppression comes from without,
but there is no other choice.
Absolutely nothing in this world exists without your acknowledgement and agreement. Including forgiveness.
Everything in your awareness is right there in your own mind, and nowhere else.

There are plenty of methods available to train yourself to a state of mind where forgiveness is a natural function of your thinking.
Find one and practice it.
It's not that hard.

Even the ego can enjoy that for awhile, until it too becomes the subject of the day.
Don't underestimate the depth of your need to be 'you', and separate.

[TargeT]

I used to think forgiveness was my greatest power, i now see forgiveness as a perception based concept, an illusion of control (by either myself or another party) I now choose acceptance which could be confused as forgiveness I suppose; ask me again in a week and I may have a different answer .


the only constant is change & change is neither bad nor good, unless you precive it to be one of the two.

[Lifebringer]

i could forgive as long as there is accountability and perhaps incarceration so they don't harm anyone else or reach their claws through bars to harm others outside. With an octopus of corruption this big around the world, the arms would have to be severely severed to ensure they never grow back. Firm regulation and prosecution, will enable the planet to forgive.

Just saying.

[karelia]

Wow. I guess my consciousness is really low compared to the posters above. Forgiveness is actually something I think about a lot. It does not come easy to me.

I have forgiven those who are not aware of what they did/do/are doing. At least as far as my perception goes.

Forgiving those who get a kick out of torturing children and other innocents, I'm still struggling. On one level, I say no way. On another level, yes, I can forgive them.

Have you ever seen someone who gets high on someone else's pain? Have you ever watched someone kill for the sheer pleasure? Just recalling their faces causes me to feel red hot anger.

Yes, I realise that this is all a game where everyone plays, plays really hard. On that level, I can forgive. But I'm not always on that level where I remember that it is all a game because while you're in the middle of it, it just doesn't feel like a game.

Can I forgive the members of the cabal? I suppose once they're behind bars, it will be much easier to forgive them than forgiving them while they're still running wild causing havoc left, right, and centre. One thing I would not like to see is them being treated the way they've treated everyone else. If they do get arrested, I don't want to see executions, I don't want to see any judgement days coinciding with occult high holidays like the Nuremberg Trials, and I most certainly don't want to hear them accuse all and sundry in order to get a lighter sentence. If we want to move beyond 3D, we need to think beyond 3D, so I guess forgiveness is a very promising start.

[StarDust]

Everything can be forgiven, but that does not mean that there is not debt to be repaid. This can occur both on the Karmic level as well as physical level as a debt to society. On the latter point, that would be up to the community to determine what that debt repayment would be including life behind bars to prevent further trespasses for the most egregious crimes.

At a minimum, if one is found to be guilty of certain crimes, they should not be permitted to revisit the the arena that they found themselves within to commit the abuse in the first place. For example, if one was caught using the banking system to commit their crime, they should be banned from working within the banking system for life. That I think is only fair and one way to prevent abuses from reoccurring.

[ljwheat]

Drop the baggage of the past. Staying in the now is forgiveness. Remembering anything outside this moment of purity is opening baggage. Staying in the moment eliminates all baggage good or bad, stay here and now. Let the past go. And the forgiveness will disappear into thin air. No baggage no forgiving needed. Anything outside of now is baggage.

[wynderer]

thank you, Karelia -- you spoke for me, especially about little children who are tortured & raped by sickos -- i can forgive the sickos because i know they are not going to make it to 5D -- they can turn on each other then -- but any chance i get to stop them now , you betcha i will, even if i lose spiritual status in newagey circles by 'judging'

Posted by karelia (here)
Wow. I guess my consciousness is really low compared to the posters above. Forgiveness is actually something I think about a lot. It does not come easy to me.

I have forgiven those who are not aware of what they did/do/are doing. At least as far as my perception goes.

Forgiving those who get a kick out of torturing children and other innocents, I'm still struggling. On one level, I say no way. On another level, yes, I can forgive them.

Have you ever seen someone who gets high on someone else's pain? Have you ever watched someone kill for the sheer pleasure? Just recalling their faces causes me to feel red hot anger.

Yes, I realise that this is all a game where everyone plays, plays really hard. On that level, I can forgive. But I'm not always on that level where I remember that it is all a game because while you're in the middle of it, it just doesn't feel like a game.

Can I forgive the members of the cabal? I suppose once they're behind bars, it will be much easier to forgive them than forgiving them while they're still running wild causing havoc left, right, and centre. One thing I would not like to see is them being treated the way they've treated everyone else. If they do get arrested, I don't want to see executions, I don't want to see any judgement days coinciding with occult high holidays like the Nuremberg Trials, and I most certainly don't want to hear them accuse all and sundry in order to get a lighter sentence. If we want to move beyond 3D, we need to think beyond 3D, so I guess forgiveness is a very promising start.

[Paula]

When speaking from the small self: I know I can forgive because I have forgiven. Though, I’ll have to work hard at crimes against children, and the defenseless.



From the greater perspective, please see post # 2 by <8>. Only one additional point:

In the end - nothing need be added or subtracted. It’s all a Dance of Love.
“Huh?"
"What did she just say?”
The Love of Co-Creation: some souls elected to wear the black hats and others, the white hats. In the end, we’ll sit down and share non-GMO pizza and a ice cold mugs of crystal clear radiation free water.



Peace on Mother Earth

[Camilo]

Just about anything and everything, as the energies are auspicious for it at this time in human history, and we can't take ant baggage with us in the ascencion process into higher frecuencies of existance.

[jjjones]

marin, very interesting question, but why didn't you share your perspective on your question? just wondering. we always have choices and sometimes it is only a choice of attitude. forgiveness is not an emotion, but an act of our will and our will can function regardless of the temperature of the heart. the most valuable word in all the languages on earth/universally is "unconditional". thank you all for your informative input. namaste, peace and love universally

[Marin]

Posted by markpierre (here)
To break the paradigm that is the cause of suffering, you have to be willing to forgive anything and everything. Including EVERYONE. Including YOURSELF for believing there's anything outside of you to forgive.

I think that just about sums it up for me.

With that in mind, to answer your question jjjones: I would forgive. Unconditionally. At a very intuitive level - it simply feels right. I can't imagine handling it any other way.

In my experience, forgiving is a form of letting go. Moving on. There isn't much that feels good about holding on.

As Christian mentioned earlier, forgiving dosen't mean we have to put up with everything. I don't. We shouldn't.

[Anchor]

Posted by <8> (here)
Hi Marin and thanks..

My view.

could you forgive? Are there degrees to what you could forgive?

I don't have to forgive anyone, it's just an experience. When you look at a movie you were really caught up in, do you forgive the actor playing the bad guy in the end?
We are all the same, but people is so caught up in the movie and believing that they are their body. And that is just fine, that's the experience you are here for.

Just take a step back and try to grasp the larger picture..

I think this means, or is equivalent to the position that you have already forgiven it all.

FWIW, I concur with your position.

[Fred Steeves]

Posted by Marin (here)
Just for the sake of discussion - let's assume mass arrests took place and members of the cabal were gathered up and put on trial. Given everything you've read, researched, discussed and experienced - could you forgive? Are there degrees to what you could forgive?

Well Marin, here's the thing. If we truly understand that we are all One, and it's not just some lofty concept, then by definition we are them, and they are also us. So if we want to get down to fundamentals, the question is really "can we forgive ourselves?"

My answer is yes, it's already done.

Cheers,
Fred

[enfoldedblue]

This is a challenging one for me. I see myself as a microcosmic reflection of the whole. This means that I can't look and point outside myself and say I am good, i am not 'that'. Instead I see everything outside myself as an expression of the same energy that is me. The fact that there are people out there doing horrific things to innocent people is a difficult one from this perspective. I would never hurt another person if I could help it, because I see myself as conncected to all I want to treat everything in my environment with the same love and respect that I too would want to receive. However, because it is part of my wider reality, my perspective requires me to look within and recognize that if I contain EVERYTHING then I too contain the same energy and the same potential to inflict harm.

This is not easy...to look at some horrific child abusing monster and say 'I contain that'. Not very comfortable to say the least. I understand that the only way one can commit horrific attrocities is by being completely cut off from love and feeling. The absence of love is what distorts and perverts the energy. I pity the soul who walks through life completely cut off from love. From my perspective love is what is needed to heal all, but frankly from the here and now perspectve it is super challenging to be able to look at someone as creepy and criminally insane as say G W Bush and to be able to forgive all their wicked actions. As Kerelia said, from the higher perspective where we understand this is game and we are all players, it becomes much easier to forgive...( I am really glad that I am not having to play such a dark horrific role). Beyond the physical realm pain and suffering are just illusion, BUT as we all know all too well here in the physical world pain and suffering are VERY REAl. And so while ultimately I do believe that for the healing of the whole forgiveness is crucial...it is not an easy thing to do from the human perspective.

[TelosianEmbrace]

As a parallel observation-

I wonder if the members of the dark cabal are monitoring this site and the responses to threads such as this based upon the concept of forgiveness as a calibration of what's in store for them once their actions become known to the general populace. Perhaps they will gain some sense of hope that maybe, just maybe,the end of their dominance upon this glorious Earth will not lead to their deaths and with this realisation will and have moderate(d) their words and actions.

[modwiz]

Foregiveness is a done deal for me. I don't believe in punishment either, it is a childish emotion. I do believe in safety and containment or extermination in some cases. A gangrenous limb may need to come off, if the rest of the self is to have a chance to survive. The full scope of this discussion is both deep and broad, but only because of lack of understanding and emotional blockages. In the big picture, with a full view it is as easy as picking out a path with a birds eye view of all possible obstacles.

One analogy: Viruses and bacteria are not really a problem. Compromised immune systems and/or unhealthy bodies are. We, the people, are the compromised immune system. The ones who need to be arrested are the viruses.

This is how simple understanding the problem can be. Many will resist such a simple understanding and even more will simply do nothing about it. The illness and weakness of the people requires very strong medicine for the infectious agents. Without quarantine and/or eradication, reinfection is guaranteed until greater consciousness is the new norm.

I can forgive anything, even the people who enable the problems. I can forgive an old man-eating predator also. I will have to deal accordingly with it though. This is a wonderful planet with a beautiful, loving, and conscious Being attempting to replace the Matrix with the Dream. She is attempting this without cleansing the planet in the process. Our assistance would be very appreciated. First we must wake up from the nightmare so we can begin to dream with Her.

I continue to forgive those who resist awakening. If a smack in the face would work, I'd administer it. It would probably just give someone an excuse to play victim and speak about the trauma being smacked caused them. And on and on it goes.

My forgiveness is working full time, my patience experiences some tears in the fabric though.

I hope you will forgive me.