Economic alert.....from the Oathkeepers.

[eileenrose]

So what if we don't? take precautions, save water and material items and so forth. What is the worse that can happen? I am just tired of hearing the fear mongering and have taken a siesta from it myself. It has been five years of this (for me). ...announcements of impending doom.

It is almost as if some individuals aspire for something negative to happen and when it doesn't happen, they start looking for more negative news (to feel that feeling again....of inadequacy or something...) just to get a fix.

I feel reality is tons more complicated and there are no easy solutions.

Just being here and present with what is happening in my life right now is the only demand I put on myself (the new symptoms of a heart condition are helping with this....yes...even dis-ease is more interesting to me that more 'end of the world' talk now).

[Selene]

Dennis, you commented:

Posted by Dennis Leahey
Right now, packets of organic seeds are about $3 max, and will grow maybe $100 worth of food. Those packets of seeds are going to get really valuable - a smart move for bartering.

Absolutely.

And, if I may suggest, rather than bartering a whole packet of seeds each time, you might consider starting the seedlings themselves (into egg carton pods?) to trade at the fair. Makes each precious packet go much further, and will aid those who don’t know how to start seedlings.

Vital tip: Never plant all your seeds at once. Always set aside one-third as insurance against a failed crop; you might need to replant. And, for crissake, learn how to save that crop’s seeds for the next year.

Cheers,

Selene

[the_vast_mystery]

Posted by schneider (here)
I personally think the dollar will get stronger when the euro collapses which makes all commodities go down including gold and silver and oil. The US dollar is actually a federal reserve note that is a global currency backed by gold. It is best to stay diversified- gold, silver, paper money and other things you can barter.

Why would the dollar grow stronger? What does the world need to buy that the U.S. still makes? Is there anything we actually export anymore that people buy? P.S. if we have an economic crash your gold will be worthless. You are buying gold based on the assumption people will value it.

Tell me, what good does shiny jewelry metal do for you if you're hungry, tired and cold? If it does YOU personally no good, why do you think anyone else will want it? If you can't eat it, drink it, wear it, shoot it, keep warm/cool with it, treat pain/disease with it, find shelter in it, or use it to build and/or grow anything that fits in the above it is worth precisely bumpkiss to someone during a total economic collapse. Instead of dumping all of your money into shiny precious metals whose only purpose is glamor you should instead be investing it in preparing something for barter you know will be needed in your region. (That does fall under the above list of requirements)

[spiritguide]

Posted by meeradas (here)
Am completely on my own.
No storage space, etc.
Only a month's wages worth in papermoney.
Big city. No driver's license.
Guess i'll be "goin' down with the ship".

Promise me not to become cannibals, like last time.

Start developing relationships with like minded people in your area and plan and share resources among each other.

[Dennis Leahy]

Posted by eileenrose (here)
So what if we don't? take precautions, save water and material items and so forth. What is the worse that can happen? I am just tired of hearing the fear mongering and have taken a siesta from it myself. It has been five years of this (for me). ...announcements of impending doom.

It is almost as if some individuals aspire for something negative to happen and when it doesn't happen, they start looking for more negative news (to feel that feeling again....of inadequacy or something...) just to get a fix.

I feel reality is tons more complicated and there are no easy solutions.

Just being here and present with what is happening in my life right now is the only demand I put on myself (the new symptoms of a heart condition are helping with this....yes...even dis-ease is more interesting to me that more 'end of the world' talk now).

When I lived on the coast in the southeast US (Charleston, SC), there were several days worth of advance notice of hurricanes, and all the while watching them to see if they would "make land." We prepared. It was not doom and gloom, it was simply preparation for what we saw coming. We knew (or at least we fully assumed) we would live through it, but knew we needed to be smart enough to prepare as best we could.

The international bankers have been very naughty, selling worthless paper over and over and over making hundreds of trillions in debt pile up. There are a number of economic factors that make it obvious that there is an economic hurricane coming at us. It will "hit land" (our economy, and the world economy), and NOT preparing is not a good idea. This economic hurricane will hit whether we are prepared or not. It is our "good fortune" to have a bit of time to prepare. It can be done with joy (like prepping for a camping trip.)

I do understand what you're talking about, and I try not to let it overwhelm me (and try to make sure I don't overwhelm my loved ones when I talk about this stuff.) But disengaging from the overwhelming emotion must not prevent us from getting prepared. Being proactive is satisfying. Read Selene's posts above, and see if you can feel the emotion she is experiencing. Her words have a smart, proactive, calm feeling to me.

Dennis

[spiritguide]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

Posted by Selene (here)
... winter without power...

Modern home (gas furnace, no fireplace or chimney) in one of the harsher winter areas of the US (northern Minnesota) has got me thinking about whether it would even be possible to stay in my home over winter. A couple of small (20#) tanks of propane would fire up a grill all winter to cook (outside), but the cost of natural gas to heat a home in a cold climate could be astronomical. I can't afford to retrofit a wood-burning stove into the house - and besides, my wife won't believe it is a good idea until too late. I don't have a good answer for that one.

Dennis

You can reduce the actual living space you use(close off unused space), insulate the outer walls by stacking straw bales on the outer walls, use the basement it will stay warmer. a small fire will keep the space warm, think eskimo and how they lived in igloos. Good thermal blankets and clothes also. Body heat can heat an enclosed area also. Winter survival without modern comforts is doable just think of native americans and there teepees, very efficient shelter. The settlers in your region did it . Think basic in these things. If needed we will all be sacrificing through the time of peril but when it is over we will realize that technology is not limitless. Survival is close to earth not insulated from it. IMHO

[mountain_jim]

I bought a book to identify all the edible plants in the area I live, which has lots of forested spaces and some meadows.

I have thought about a solar oven, but have lots of wood around - only I don't look forward to having to work up firewood for cooking and heating without a working chainsaw if gas runs out.

If I had the money, I could turn a mountain stream into a micro-hydro power source, but suspect an EMP could do that in as well. I also think I would be safer without being the only powered house in the area, so I am planning on being able to get by without electricity for awhile if need be.

We have a dehydrator and have stored dried fruit and tomatoes and such from previous years bounty, to go with bought rice and beans and such.

Have wood-stove and gravity-fed spring water, so house has working plumbing without electricity. No solar water-heat, though.

(I was lead by intuition to this place, having circled an ad in a real-estate magazine almost 4 years before I was in position to go for it - it had 3 failed contracts over that time and when we finally were ready, the process went unbelievably smooth. We knew we were where we were supposed to be, for whatever comes this year or next.)

[WhiteFeather]

Thanks spiritguide. It couldnt hurt to stock up on these items from that link youve posted..


Do you have a stack of 50 lb bags of rice and 50lb bags of beans? That is super-cheap food insurance that no one, not one of you, has any excuse for not having. A 50 lb bag of rice or beans can be had for under $22.00. Want to buy it even cheaper, go to a Mormon food cannery (where you can also buy powdered milk, wheat, and bulk salt and sugar). Even if you are on a tight budget, get some bags of rice and beans. Together, they make a meal, and they are simple to prepare. All you need is water and heat, and a pot. Surely you should store more complete foods, and a variety of other foods, but those bags of rice and beans will help keep you and yours alive. You have no reason to not have them, so get them.

[Arrowwind]

I have made food strorage a focus for the last 4 years. I now have almost 1.5 years of stored stuff... working on it slowly over time.

Be aware that with inflation anything that you put into food will produce a 5% yearly or more return on your money... food inflation is really happening... far more profit than any savings account and most stock portfolios.

3 years ago a 20 pound bag of pintos was $16... today $23 to $26

Do not store brown rice. It goes rancid unless you can put it in a freezer. White rice is where its at. We dont really eat white rice but I store it anyway and continue to eat brown rice. White rice will keep forever if it is sealed properly.

Our focus now it in gardening. We now have about 1000 sq feet of garden space, several fruit trees planted.
We have enough sage brush surrounding us to fuel a rocket stove for years if need be.

The reason to invest in gold and silver is to diversify your options. We dont know what the future will bring but historically these metals have held value through very rought times throughout history.

Having gold and silver with no food, no garden, no heat, may not do much for you... but it may purchase for you transport to safey somehwere. I have my kids keep a small stash of silver so they can get out of town quick if ever the need arises. Metals could loose their value but there will likely be a space of time when they will have value. Just depends on how bad things get.

[the_vast_mystery]

Metals are definitely safer than paper money, but during hard times barter is king. The only reason people MIGHT take gold or silver is that they are still under the impression that other people might honor it. So because we as a species have these problems with breaking free from history there is a nontrivial chance that gold and silver would work during a minor crisis or during the beginning of a major crisis. This being entirely because people cannot think beyond the dogma of "Gold = money." That said, they will only retain their value so long as someone doesn't decide to create their own, more utilitarian currency. Metro 2033 had the right idea I think, even though it was a game, during an extended crisis we could very easily see bullets and other forms of ammunition supplant any paper or metal money. Ammunition being something nearly universally useful it would be valuable to all, enabling it to function as a means of exchange as well.

[corson]

Posted by the_vast_mystery (here)

Posted by corson (here)

Posted by DreamsInDigital (here)
yeah, but seriously what about the ones that don't have the storage or money capacity for 3 months of supplies?

this is where knowing your neighbors well or getting closer to other family members can help. develop an inner sanctum, a place or other people that you can go to when in need.
regards, corson

For those of us who've moved 300 miles or more just to get away from our relatives this whole scenario isn't looking too good. I'm sure if push came to shove I'd try talking to the people at my apartment complex. But I'd rather starve than ask for anything from my so-called "family."

What I really worry about is what will happen to people who have medical conditions like diabetes and need regular shots? Food safety is one thing but anyone who needs any kind of medication might as well shoot themselves now if it's going to be as bad as they make it out to be. This is why people like Drake gain traction, because in the absence of any organization, when faced with the possibility of total economic collapse nobody wants to imagine the horror that they will be faced with if they're left to themselves.

The_Vast_Mystery, i understand where you are coming from, believe me. i live 1200 miles away from my siblings and i like it that way....... however, i do have other cousins and such, who aren't so bad. and i have very close friends that i consider to be part of my family. developing a close bond with people that you care about is key. i worry about the medication aspects for people as well. i am not sure what to do about that except buy meds in 90+ day groupings. i am working on that particular problem for one of my daughters. she suffers from major depression and even though i do not want her taking meds, she is at the moment, and i am looking into ways of obtaining enough to keep her safe. i wish we could write a book about what to do and have many, many people contribute to it.
warmest regards, corson

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by sygh (here)

Posted by corson (here)
spiritguide, thank you very much. that is the best article that i have read regarding the downfall of the republic. be aware, be prepared.
regards, corson

I just love you, corson, and your avatar. Want to hear some good news along the same lines? Take a gander at this:

http://rt.com/usa/news/ndaa-judge-bl...detention-437/

excellent my little mouse!!!!!!!! that is a terrific find. thanks so much for the update.
warmest, corson

[LivingLight]

A 50 lb bag of rice and a 50 lb bag of beans would be useless without heat. How can I ensure I have heat for cooking if there is no gas or electricity? I am going to start stockpiling canned goods. I am new to this forum. What other types of items should I look for, as I have money. I'll have to do it slowly, and hope nothing happens.

[LivingLight]

Is it okay to stockpile dry catfood or will it go rancid? I wonder what I can do to take care of my cat... How are people going to take care of their animals, or are they going to turn them loose to let them fend for themselves?

[rmauersr]

Posted by LivingLight (here)
A 50 lb bag of rice and a 50 lb bag of beans would be useless without heat. How can I ensure I have heat for cooking if there is no gas or electricity? I am going to start stockpiling canned goods. I am new to this forum. What other types of items should I look for, as I have money. I'll have to do it slowly, and hope nothing happens.

If you have twigs available you can boil water in a Kelly Kettle or other small camping stove.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMCR-ie9H_w

There are many other options. You may find more useful information on this page of my blog.

[tenacity1]

Posted by DreamsInDigital (here)
yeah, but seriously what about the ones that don't have the storage or money capacity for 3 months of supplies?

my questions excatly.. Not to be negative but the way I see it.. I am not gonna worry.I've done what I can and have not the resources to do more. MY faith in the GReat Spirt will carry me through.I am certainly not waiting on heros not expecting the far right, middle or far left to really give a damn what happens to the disabled in America.I knew decades ago that we are truly alone when it comes to our survival. Not being cynical that's just reality for millions in America who are disabled. C'est la vie what will be will be.. I'll either make it or die trying. Peace and best wishes to the rest in same circumstances. I've had angels watching over me for years and am more certain than ever that if I leave fear behind.. and just place one foot in front of the other those who have protected me before will be there. I certainly am not gonna worry and hang on every new theory.. Being part Cherokee I tend to lean towards Hopi and other Native Teaching more than anything else.. worry and fear have no place in my heart. If I get to stay I do if I don't..well this body is past it's sell by date anyway.

[tenacity1]

oh and before I forget.. in one in four people have a disability you can bet every neighborhood has at least one shut in who relies on meals on wheels.. maybe some of you would think of them. I have good neighbors but since I also am rather proud and don't like folks knowing I am ill(in the south southern girls don't give folks that kind of info it makes you a target) I know millions of us will die.. ya'll just need to realize that decades ago when those of us who said govts who would harm the weak would do it to anyone should have listened.. I am certain I probably am on lists as I have been a vocal whistleblower in my community in the past.Now, thank God my medical problems keeps me off their radar and I don't get out to town meetings. But realize folks there are some folks who are even worse off than folks like me.I know folks with disabilities living on less than four hundred a month and they have no choice. are the so called "evolved folks gonna play social Darwinists or will folks realize we are al truly one./ HMM we shall see.. my cynical side says all those of us with illness will make ascnesion first and that is as it should be. Peace

[spiritguide]

Posted by LivingLight (here)
A 50 lb bag of rice and a 50 lb bag of beans would be useless without heat. How can I ensure I have heat for cooking if there is no gas or electricity? I am going to start stockpiling canned goods. I am new to this forum. What other types of items should I look for, as I have money. I'll have to do it slowly, and hope nothing happens.

As for the heat problem supply wooden matches and locate a good place to gather dead wood from. Get a few blocks of parrafin from a hobby store and buy candles or make your own. Another trick is to go to the home supply store and by a few squares of ceiling tile and use them to make fire starters. ( melt the parrafin in a pan and soak a few boxes of wooden matches in it, now you have waterproof matches. cut the ceiling tiles into 1x2 inch squares and soak them in the melted parrafin and now you have waterproof firestarters.) CAUTION: the melted parrafin is very flammable and needs caution while working with. Parrafin will be a valuable item as well as bees wax, useful too. I hope this helps with your heat question.

[spiritguide]

Posted by tenacity1 (here)

Posted by DreamsInDigital (here)
yeah, but seriously what about the ones that don't have the storage or money capacity for 3 months of supplies?

my questions excatly.. Not to be negative but the way I see it.. I am not gonna worry.I've done what I can and have not the resources to do more. MY faith in the GReat Spirt will carry me through.I am certainly not waiting on heros not expecting the far right, middle or far left to really give a damn what happens to the disabled in America.I knew decades ago that we are truly alone when it comes to our survival. Not being cynical that's just reality for millions in America who are disabled. C'est la vie what will be will be.. I'll either make it or die trying. Peace and best wishes to the rest in same circumstances. I've had angels watching over me for years and am more certain than ever that if I leave fear behind.. and just place one foot in front of the other those who have protected me before will be there. I certainly am not gonna worry and hang on every new theory.. Being part Cherokee I tend to lean towards Hopi and other Native Teaching more than anything else.. worry and fear have no place in my heart. If I get to stay I do if I don't..well this body is past it's sell by date anyway.

Your situation is not unique and all the more reason to band with friends and neighbors to get adopted during emergencies of any nature. All nieghborhoods/towns should have an adoption plan for those less fortunate, it's up to us to help ourselves in this area. Talk it up!

[tenacity1]

honey around here if I told my neighbors how sick I am the wild boys of the neighborhood would give me a hard time and I'd just as soon not ask for help.I'm a giver not a taker.. Women in the mnts of nc know to keepo their heads down cause our District attorney doesn't keep the violent ones in jail he use them for drug running.. so letting lots of folks know you are sick and alone is just not wise.. if it gets wierd out there I'll do what Hunter S Thompson said "when the going gets wierd, the weird turn pro." best thing southern girls can do to protect themselves in this neck of thew woods is act menopausal and mean around your redneck neigbors and they give you a wide berth*L* This is a county that doesn't prosecute domestic violence/rape whatever against women cause our DA is a mysogynist.. I worry about those in cities.. we have grund hogs, turkeys derr etc and having grown up with a grandfather who still had his native hunting skills.. came in real handy for my future training.. I'm not gun savvy due to injuries but I've learned a few wood crafts to keep uninvited folks off my place and I've got a nice wrist rocket.. heck.. if it gets real bad.. I've even got the Oregon plan all sussed out.. (that's euthanaisa for the uninitiated) IF this county does what I think it'll do..I'll take the cyanide before I allow one of our corrupt to get their nasty hands on me.
ya'll excuse the mistakes..I had to start a God forbid pharmaceutical anitbiotic today and my eyes are the worst.. typos an all

peace be with ya folks and belive me as I have been writing about disabled rights since 1997 I know well that i am not unique..I'm one of the lucky ones. I know folks stuck in group home due to cutbacks in home care.It's those folks and the old folks who use meals on wheels I really worry about,I'd give my right arm to have the resources to help them

[Dennis Leahy]

Posted by LivingLight (here)
A 50 lb bag of rice and a 50 lb bag of beans would be useless without heat. How can I ensure I have heat for cooking if there is no gas or electricity? I am going to start stockpiling canned goods. I am new to this forum. What other types of items should I look for, as I have money. I'll have to do it slowly, and hope nothing happens.

A solar stove would be nice to have, during the months when the sun is intense.

Do you own a (propane gas) grill? If not, you can get one (in the US) starting at under $100. An extra tank ("20 pounds") will cost you about $40, filled. Right now, it might be about $25 in the US to get an empty tank filled. A second full tank now will ensure that you don't have to spend more [valuable item, money or whatever barter item it may be] later. Twenty pounds of propane can cook a lot of meals. I have seen figures stating that it may typically burn for about eleven hours at full blast, but I'll bet you could cook 50 pots of soup with one tank. Many meals can be cooked quickly, and a covered grill holds some heat for a while. Several (3? or 4?) tanks full would ensure you could cook all winter, and make a little bit of hot water here and there as needed (not a bathtub full however.) :~)

Neighbors sharing a pot of soup would mean the propane stretches even further. Soak beans overnight to make them cook a LOT quicker the next day. Don't forget lentils: nutritious, flavorful, quicker cooking than beans.

If you had more tanks than you needed, and if the economy crashes as hard as I suspect it will, you'll have gas in spring when your neighbors run out, or you'll have something VERY valuable to trade. Be smart about storing the tanks, both in terms of a fire/explosion hazard and as a "thief attractant" if displayed prominently.

As with all of the good ideas expressed in this thread, none of this will go to waste. With hyperinflation, real goods are much more valuable than any form of money, even "precious" metals. If food was scarce, you wouldn't trade your family's last few cans of food for a handful of silver coins (that might be "worth" $500), would you? Grow a garden this summer, make a giant cauldron or two of the most awesome vegetable soup you ever tasted, and can a few dozen quarts. Better than anything you can buy in any store.

Another idea is to get a good food dehydrator right now, and as each fruit and vegetable crop is at its peak, eat some and dry some. Once veggies are dried, if you want to save space, you can crush them in a paper or cloth bag with a rolling pin, and have less jars and less space taken up. Your beans and rice will be a lot more interesting with bouillon cubes and some dried veggies thrown in. You can dry broccoli, kale, spinach...(nutrient dense foods), or just about any fruit or vegetable sliced. Dried foods last a long time. Buy a pound or two of organic dried onion flakes at the health food store. A few things are cheaper purchased dried (like dried mango) than you could dry yourself, so be aware of that. Look for folks with fruit (and nut) trees and you may be able to "clean up" imperfect or fallen fruit for free on 'on the cheap.' Cut off the bad parts, dry or can the good stuff, and the result is as close to perfection as need be.

I just learned how to can and dry a couple of years ago. It is a lot of work but the rewards are food that is better than you could buy anywhere in a can, with your own special touch. After about 3 batches of salsa, I'll bet that your own salsa will be your favorite.

My squash from my garden lasted until early February, and my potatoes until about mid-March. So remember, not everything needs to be dried or canned, some can be simply stored (of course, you do want to learn how to properly store root crops and winter squash.)

This reminds me to remind others that this work need not be stressful or driven by fear. This is exactly the same thing we should all have done for ourselves last year, and the year before... A full pantry from the growing season celebrates the seasons and the cycle of life. It is "normal." Relying on goods to be trucked-in during late fall to early spring is a very new phenomenon in society, and is "not normal." The work to make this happen is wholesome and life affirming and satisfying.

May you have joy in your heart and a song on your lips as you plan for and prepare your family's "larder."

Dennis