Economic alert.....from the Oathkeepers.

[eileenrose]

Hi, anyone,
re: "But disengaging from the overwhelming emotion must not prevent us from getting prepared.", from Dennis.

In one way, we are completely opposite in our tack, on how to heal our universe/world/planet/human affairs.

Just talking in general now, to anyone:
First of all, you are ....everything. You are a complete universe (see: Bruce Lipton). Everyone is. So if you feel fear, we all do. Especially in a closed loop community (forum) on-line.

It is fact (whether admitted too is something else). So, once the announcements of financial wrecking balls were coming through in 2008, your responsibility for communicating
said disaster ended.

But notice the rhetoric continues.

Why do we feel the need to keep reinforcing this type of mental activity, even when we know it spreads fear?

Because we are addicted to it. Fear based ideas.

I am saying, in a round about way, that you (and anyone who keeps bringing this information up with fear in them about it), isn't helping.
It is creating a new paradigm, one filled with fear.

I will give you an example to put this into perspective (for the Western mentality).

Go to any country that is considered 'third world'.
They all live with these type of circumstances, you and everyone here (US, Europe etc.) are frightened of.
And have their entire existence.
Do you seem them running forums into the ground with fear terminology? No.
ANd you never will.
They know better.

They are in touch with themselves (why the elites want them dead). And their 'universe' is safe and secure. Because it isn't dependent on money.
Which is what this is really about (and I brought up on another thread which no one read...or understands).

This is about the fear of losing your pocketbooks and nothing else.

Throwing in new age terminology and jacking the 'end of times' garbage from different culture's myths/past to fit our current day circumstances, is a waste of our time.
I've been trying to discourage people from cementing this fixation into our reality (by keeping talking about it happening....which keeps bringing it into
our reality).

You are just helping them (the elites).
So I am finally saying something (even if people are uncomfortable talking about it at this level).

We do create our reality. You just don't know it (yet).

[Dennis Leahy]

Hi eileenrose,

What post of mine are you responding to? Surely not what I just posted.

Dennis

[eileenrose]

sorry Dennis, my control save button posted wrong/ie. I fixed it...see above. Thanks for noticing.

[tenacity1]

Posted by eileenrose (here)
Hi, anyone,
re: "But disengaging from the overwhelming emotion must not prevent us from getting prepared.", from Dennis.

In one way, we are completely opposite in our tack, on how to heal our universe/world/planet/human affairs.

Just talking in general now, to anyone:
First of all, you are ....everything. You are a complete universe (see: Bruce Lipton). Everyone is. So if you feel fear, we all do. Especially in a closed loop community (forum) on-line.

It is fact (whether admitted too is something else). So, once the announcements of financial wrecking balls were coming through in 2008, your responsibility for communicating
said disaster ended.

But notice the rhetoric continues.

Why do we feel the need to keep reinforcing this type of mental activity, even when we know it spreads fear?

Because we are addicted to it. Fear based ideas.

I am saying, in a round about way, that you (and anyone who keeps bringing this information up with fear in them about it), isn't helping.
It is creating a new paradigm, one filled with fear.

I will give you an example to put this into perspective (for the Western mentality).

Go to any country that is considered 'third world'.
They all live with these type of circumstances, you and everyone here (US, Europe etc.) are frightened of.
And have their entire existence.
Do you seem them running forums into the ground with fear terminology? No.
ANd you never will.
They know better.

They are in touch with themselves (why the elites want them dead). And their 'universe' is safe and secure. Because it isn't dependent on money.
Which is what this is really about (and I brought up on another thread which no one read...or understands).

This is about the fear of losing your pocketbooks and nothing else.

Throwing in new age terminology and jacking the 'end of times' garbage from different culture's myths/past to fit our current day circumstances, is a waste of our time.
I've been trying to discourage people from cementing this fixation into our reality (by keeping talking about it happening....which keeps bringing it into
our reality).

You are just helping them (the elites).
So I am finally saying something (even if people are uncomfortable talking about it at this level).

We do create our reality. You just don't know it (yet).

bingo.. I've been wanting to say this myself and have efelt this way for a long time. Thanks for saying this.Too true.. it's why some days online I simply sit there and play old protest/love is all there is music (beatles of course)

[Paul]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
Do you own a (propane gas) grill? If not, you can get one (in the US) starting at under $100. An extra tank ("20 pounds") will cost you about $40, filled. Right now, it might be about $25 in the US to get an empty tank filled. A second full tank now will ensure that you don't have to spend more [valuable item, money or whatever barter item it may be] later. Twenty pounds of propane can cook a lot of meals. I have seen figures stating that it may typically burn for about eleven hours at full blast, but I'll bet you could cook 50 pots of soup with one tank. Many meals can be cooked quickly, and a covered grill holds some heat for a while. Several (3? or 4?) tanks full would ensure you could cook all winter

Yup - agreed.

And if you're cooking beans, after soaking them overnight, cook them in a pressure cooker. That's a much more efficient use of the heat. Once I get my cooker up to temperature, I only need to have it on low heat for perhaps 20 or 30 minutes to cook pinto beans.

That's my main plan .. rice and beans, with a gas grill, a few tanks of propane, and a pressure cooker.

That and quiet a variety of high density nutrition, such as vitamins and other nutrients from Swanson Vitamins, superfoods (Health Force and Living Fuel) twenty pounds of chia seeds, and a Berkey water filter.

I also have a propane fired generator sufficient to recharge the battery in my computer UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply), from which I could run a variety of low power devices, such as a radio, a laptop, or AA battery recharger to power flashlights and such.

[sygh]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
Do you own a (propane gas) grill? If not, you can get one (in the US) starting at under $100. An extra tank ("20 pounds") will cost you about $40, filled. Right now, it might be about $25 in the US to get an empty tank filled. A second full tank now will ensure that you don't have to spend more [valuable item, money or whatever barter item it may be] later. Twenty pounds of propane can cook a lot of meals. I have seen figures stating that it may typically burn for about eleven hours at full blast, but I'll bet you could cook 50 pots of soup with one tank. Many meals can be cooked quickly, and a covered grill holds some heat for a while. Several (3? or 4?) tanks full would ensure you could cook all winter

Yup - agreed.

And if you're cooking beans, after soaking them overnight, cook them in a pressure cooker. That's a much more efficient use of the heat. Once I get my cooker up to temperature, I only need to have it on low heat for perhaps 20 or 30 minutes to cook pinto beans.

That's my main plan .. rice and beans, with a gas grill, a few tanks of propane, and a pressure cooker.

That and quiet a variety of high density nutrition, such as vitamins and other nutrients from Swanson Vitamins, superfoods (Health Force and Living Fuel) twenty pounds of chia seeds, and a Berkey water filter.

I also have a propane fired generator sufficient to recharge the battery in my computer UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply), from which I could run a variety of low power devices, such as a radio, a laptop, or AA battery recharger to power flashlights and such.

I like the idea of the propane fired generator in relation to the UPS. Good idea.
Am also using a gas grill with propane. I live close enought to neighbors who are already pretty self sufficient and have thought to never waste the cooking fuel as two pressure cookers on the grill are better than one.

MIddle of the road solar cookers can reach heats of 275 degrees F to 325 degrees F. You can cook rice in about 2 hours, no matter what the weather is outdoors, just as long as its sunny. And a shorter period of time, if the rice is soaked first. Same with the beans, they are naturally small and don't have to be cut up. Parabolic dishes or trophs cook hot and quick.

The wikipedia examples are actually very good. Anyone can pick out one or two they think will work and make it simply, and inexpensively enough.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cooker
here is another helpful link:
http://www.terra.org/cocinas/searchen.php?fam=1

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Posted by meeradas (here)
Am completely on my own.
No storage space, etc.
Only a month's wages worth in papermoney.
Big city. No driver's license.
Guess i'll be "goin' down with the ship".

Promise me not to become cannibals, like last time.

@ Meeradas,

Check out the sites of Ron Mauer ( links are at the off the grid section), he has lots of info about how to get by on a budget, build stoves, buy cheap food, build your own solar ovens, food dryers, there is lots and lots of good info in the off the grid section.

I posted a link about a very cheap and very good military water filter, 2000 liters, divided by 365( days) is 5.479 liters per day, you need at least two per day, if you get some cheap collapsable jerrycans ( for camping), you will drink fresh clean water for at least 2 to three years minimum for under fifty bucks for the whole 2 to 3 years. TIP.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlVogHe5qlI

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf26YBmY8Q8

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-NxqyhGbag

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeSyHgO5fmQ

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk3dv1IXb00

http://www.greenpowerscience.com/

For the water filter see link below, go to cooking and water section.

http://www.hettykat.nl/

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lLOpBjcqjk

This water filter is the lightest, smallest water filter. It's a good choice for soldiers, hiking, camping, fishing, hunting, climbing, trip/ travel, out-door work, survival, and emergency Also, it's very easy to operate: just pump the handle to instantly remove dangerous contaminants from drinking water.

This pump is also used by the Canadian army for its size, reliability and filtering capabilities.

Characteristics:
- 100% removes bacteria in water like Escherichia coli, Staphylococcus aureus, Salmonella typhi, Vibrio cholerae, Legionella pneumophila, Giardia intestinalis.
- Filters out particles down to 0.1 micron — compare to the best commercially available unit that can only filter down to 0.2 micron!
- Entirely eliminates suspended contaminants of protozoa, algae, worms, dusts, etc.
- Efficiently removes heavy metal ions in water such as Pb2+, Cd2+, Cr6+, As3+, etc.
- Efficiently decreases organic pollutants.
- Having a good ability to remove odors and cloudiness.

Features:
-Smallest: can be held in glasses box.
-Lightest: less than 90g.
-Environment friendly: cleanable filter cartridge.
-High filtration fineness: unique dual ceramic membranes cartridge with mean pore size of 0.1 micron.

Technical Data:
- Size of ceramic membrane's aperture: 0.1 micron
- Output: Approx. 0.3 l/min (10 oz. per minute)
- Capacity: 2,000 liters (530 gallons)
- Weight: Approx. 88g (3 oz.)
- Dimensions: 13.8×5.7×2.8cm
- Material: ABS plastic, Ceramic, Nano-KDF

Made by Pure Easy

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Swedish log candles, for warmth and cooking using just one log per burn.

Below videos of how to make them, also without the use of a chainsaw and just splitting them by hand.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJtGlCBosFA

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFptOQAdKDQ

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfRovJ1KcCg

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjQRLQTNsJo

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FALfPmh0BdA

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Windowfarming, these can chugg out at least a few salads a week when done properly, its not hard, i eat tomatoes and cucumbers grown right inside my windowseal.


http://www.windowfarms.org/

Building instructions are on the site as well. ENJOY YOUR GREENS

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkCuPrsPn_I

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uQ6Pc8YKr8

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8shuvMGIvc

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghsl7aAzdv8

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjItiepmPA0

[LivingLight]

Do you own a (propane gas) grill? If not, you can get one (in the US) starting at under $100.

Yes, I do have a portable gas grill that was given to my husband and I last spring as a wedding gift. We have not used it yet, mainly because we haven't bothered to learn how. I know this is so sad, but I feel like I'm part of an entire generation who never learned how to do basic things. I always go to the grocery store when I run out of food, never gardened, never canned anything, etc... I don't even have a flashlight or batteries. I'm so glad I found this wake-up call.

Even if there is no major disaster, I agree I should still learn how to can food. I'll try to teach myself how. I think it would save money since produce is generally cheaper in the summer.

I don't know what I would do if things got really bad. If people start turning to canabalism, I might just take an overdose of pills. I'd rather die than survive by those means. I'll bet there would be a lot of suicides.

[Arrowwind]

Posted by eileenrose (here)
This is about the fear of losing your pocketbooks and nothing else.
.

I could not disagree more.

Many many people in the USA have already lost their pocketbooks, many others were born with no pocketbooks
Others are seeing their pocket books melting away as they search for work
This is about learning how to survive in a world that gave too many no survival skills for an economy
that is potentially coming to an end.

Just how do you survive in a concrete jungle
disconnected from the earth?

you said "First of all, you are ....everything. You are a complete universe (see: Bruce Lipton). Everyone is. So if you feel fear, we all do. Especially in a closed loop community (forum) on-line."

this is what sounds like newage mumbo jumbo to me, and although I have much respect for Bruce Lipton, being the homeoapth he is, every homeopath knows that a disease cannot be rightly cured unless you clearly understand the presenting symptoms and issues so that the correct remedy can be assigned.

There are mental and physical and spiritual symptoms that must be addressed.
Moving into denial on the current economic and political situation will not cure.
It must be discussed until people realize exactly where they stand
within their own circumstance in our social context
then they get to make their choice
and then they can abide an action that will lend to sustaining their existence
hopefully in an honorable and compassionate way

I suggest that those that often call out fear are the ones feeling it the most.
To stand in observation and call things by their proper name
is not fear, it is pragmatism.
If one smells fear look to one's own physiology

All transformation is preceded by chaos.
Navigating the chaos is of issue at this time.

[Arrowwind]

Posted by the_vast_mystery (here)
Metro 2033 had the right idea I think, even though it was a game, during an extended crisis we could very easily see bullets and other forms of ammunition supplant any paper or metal money. Ammunition being something nearly universally useful it would be valuable to all, enabling it to function as a means of exchange as well.

Exactly, diversifying ones options is good. A basket of wheat could equal a bushel of gold under supporting circumstances...
I do not necessarily like having to get into this survivalist mode and it certainly has not been the focus of my life
but considering the events around me I dont see an option.
The tides of masses of people who have no means of sustenance will direct the flow of energy for a time.
There are some very nasty and mean characters out there and to live in denial of this fact will not afford you
any benefit at all.
Keep a level head and an open heart and follow your gut instincts.

[joedjemal]

Posted by DouglasDanger (here)
Also know what you can eat that grows naturally in your enviroment, dandi lions aren't to tasty but they do grow quickly and plentyfull on my lawn. there's lots of other greenery that most people see as eye sores right now but can and will make a meal..

If you get them before they flower they don't taste bad at all and you can roast the roots as a coffee substitute. I've been prepping for years. I'm just about self sufficient now. (Got 8 wild turkey eggs in one incubator and some runner ducks and chickens in the other right now) I is possible to become self sufficient on a very low income if you do it gradually but realistically you need access to land. The way I did it was some friends and I raised enough for 23 acres from donations. We created a trust to hold the land. If you can't get land container garden. You can grow a great deal of food in a small area. Buy an extra can or two or bag of rice or sugar every time you go shopping, it soon mounts up. Buy field guides for your local plants and fungi and get a copy of the us army or sas survival manual.

Every time you go out find a plant you don't know and identify it. Look it up on the net and learn what it can be used for. The knowledge mounts up as well if you're consistent. Plants for a future is an excellent web site for plant uses. Prepping leads to self sufficiency and becomes a way of life. If you're not prepped you need to get started immediately, anyone can see what's going on in the world. Unsustainable systems fail

[Arrowwind]

I really like the rocket stove idea. There are lots of written instructions if you do a search

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSMR2ANIZ7E

This one is a little more high tech

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...30833401&hl=en#

[joedjemal]

I wanted to say something to those that think prepping is a fear based thing, it's the opposite. I have enough knowledge now to be able to go anywhere in the temperate part of the world with nothing but a small knife and manage quite comfortably. I felt some fear when I first learned about collapse so I decided to make myself capable of dealing with it. No more fear. Having understanding of the world around you and knowledge of how to effectively deal with it is a much better way of dealing with fearful things than denying their existence.

If you see a piano falling towards your head you get out of the way you don't pretend it isn't there.

[toad]

Posted by meeradas (here)
Am completely on my own.
No storage space, etc.
Only a month's wages worth in papermoney.
Big city. No driver's license.
Guess i'll be "goin' down with the ship".

Promise me not to become cannibals, like last time.

Do not fear my friend, do you know what is free and easy to stash? Knowledge, acquiring information is paramount and can be done cheap and easily. Learn to forage, learn to survive with minimum supplies. Sure having a 3month supply of food is great, but I wouldn't rely on that solely. Learning to forage edibles and mushrooms and knowing how to conduct yourself in nature I think is more important then building up a vast food supply. Various things can happen, you may get robbed, this may spoil, there may be a fire, you may have to leave suddenly and all will be lost. But if any of those things should occur granted you've prepared yourself with the right wisdom, you can survive so long as you know how to. I've always loved hunting and foraging my own food, plants/mushrooms, trapping, tracking, etc... I feel very confident in the forest and if things were to get really bad, I feel all would be well.

www.eattheweeds.com
www.invasivore.org
http://www.peaksurvival.us/Home.html
www.shroomery.org
http://huntgathergroweat.com/
http://gridfree.us/blog/
http://www.offthegridnews.com
http://www.eheerkens.com/

[mountain_jim]

Posted by joedjemal (here)
I wanted to say something to those that think prepping is a fear based thing, it's the opposite. I have enough knowledge now to be able to go anywhere in the temperate part of the world with nothing but a small knife and manage quite comfortably. I felt some fear when I first learned about collapse so I decided to make myself capable of dealing with it. No more fear. Having understanding of the world around you and knowledge of how to effectively deal with it is a much better way of dealing with fearful things than denying their existence.

If you see a piano falling towards your head you get out of the way you don't pretend it isn't there.

I also want to speak to the

They are in touch with themselves (why the elites want them dead). And their 'universe' is safe and secure. Because it isn't dependent on money.
Which is what this is really about (and I brought up on another thread which no one read...or understands).

This is about the fear of losing your pocketbooks and nothing else.

Throwing in new age terminology and jacking the 'end of times' garbage from different culture's myths/past to fit our current day circumstances, is a waste of our time.
I've been trying to discourage people from cementing this fixation into our reality (by keeping talking about it happening....which keeps bringing it into
our reality).

You are just helping them (the elites).
So I am finally saying something (even if people are uncomfortable talking about it at this level).

We do create our reality. You just don't know it (yet).

I disagree, in part, at least for myself. I am one of the more optimistic folks here, without believing or relying on any one thing other than my own intuition.

I also know I am a reality-creator-in-training, and that is part of why I choose to be an optimist about near-future events in the world I perceive.

Yet I also find value in knowing my physical survival is not dependant on (at least for awhile) electricity working, banks being open, trucks bringing food, or grocery stores open.

I also experienced being without power for 10 days winter before last. I did not consciously choose that reality (well I sort-of did by choosing to live this remote in the mountains), but it gave me an appreciation of what preparations I needed to make to handle a much longer outage of that nature.

I have made (an affordable, reasonable portion of) those preps. That's not Fear, that's being rational and having a Plan for possible Events.

I understand and somewhat agree with some points you made in the above quote, eileenrose, but your statements (in bold) seem to me to paint all who try and follow Current Events and prepare (for short-term disruptions in the systems at a minimum) with a broad, judgmental brush.

I suggest this judgment might also imply the Fear that others will not create as one thinks they should.

[spiritguide]

Thanks to all who contributed to the thread. There is a good sharing of information here for the independence of people and advice to those in denial that think they are immune to natural or man made disasters. The Creator has provided and mother earth shares openly and those that study this will know what it is to live without fear. Join in and be part of the CREATION not insulated from it, many wise ones know what true independence from man made systems is and listen to the laws of nature as they unfold. There is spirit in all.

[alamojo]

eileenrose, the world is filled with dangers, this cannot be disputed.

Are you suggesting we simply ignore the danger? This seems foolish to me.

One can face danger with no fear or minimal fear, but sometimes fear cannot be controlled.

Is it safe to say you have no insurance -- fire, car, life? After all, preparing for possible catastrophe is fear porn, isn't it?