Is smoking bad for you? Discuss...

[Nickolai]

Hi,

A friend of mine in her 50s smokes a lot. Once she visited a doctor whom she has known for years for some reason.
Just before leaving, she out of curiosity asked the doctor if he would advised her to quit smoking. She told him that she had smoked for nearly 30 years.
The doctor replied that in no way she quit for otherwise she would meet serious health problems.

Another friend of mine was a heavy smoker as well. While being in hospital because of her ulcers operation she had to quit smoking 'cos she could not walk after the surgery.
I can tell you that no matter how oprimistic she tries to sound I admit she looks awful. After she quit and now. At first me and my friends thought that the way she looked was because of the toxins that started to get out of her body. Months have passed she looks still awful:
Bad skin,
Lots of wrinkles (never had them so obvious),
She gained her weight
Became very emotional

I always tell her when she tries to convince me that she is a very bad commercial...)))

Nickolai

[ljwheat]

Thread: (Is smoking bad for You?) <--answer in question or validate my bad

Subtract the “Is” = (smoking bad for you?)

Subtract Me “you” (smoking bad for?)

Subtract the “?” (smoking bad for)

Subtract the “for” (smoking bad)

Where in Nature dose this (smoking bad) take place in any other animal on this planet and why?

Dose it make you healthy in anyway?

Dose it add to your over all beauty in anyway?

What is it taking the place of, while you should be doing somthing else instead of lighting up?

What dose it do to the value of your car?

Or your cloths?

Complection?

Personality?

The people you could be hanging out with?

What creature in nature dose this (smoking bad)?

John xoxo

[donk]

I haven't read all four pages yet, but the first didn't seem to address this issue:

Toxic or not, intention or not, I defy any smoker (10-30 corporate made a day) to claim you are not a slave to a habit. It doesn't matter if it makes us less tasty to vampires or if the chems actually help in mind control, there is no 3d physical benefit whatsoever, just the mental/emotional/comfort level pleasure.

And if you go too long without one, what happens? You need sh!tloads more intention for it to be ok not to have one, than any of these questionable examples of somehow rationalizing that intention can prevent the long term effects of ingesting burning poison.

I am a slave. I hate that i love to smoke. & that the consequences of withdrawal at this point are not worth the struggle with the grip addiction has on me. I hope soon I will hate it like I learned to hate alcohol, addiction of which caused enough problems that it became worth the battle.

For me, I learned I cannot manage an addiction without hating the source of it. I find rationalizing something as harmful and powerfully addictive as cigs sad--unless your a rep for Phillip Morris or glaxosmithcline or the other death industries.

[Daughter of Time]

My grandfather smoked for 65 years. He never even coughed. He died a very quick death. Apparently his kidneys quit and he was gone within 2 days but he was totally healthy right up until then. He was 84 and went shopping, took long walks, socialized, and was totally lucid until hours before he passed.

I used to know a woman who had been chain smoking since she was 14. In her mid eighties she was still chain smoking - and working!!! However, her husband whom she'd met when she and he were both 14, had also chain smoked like her, but he died of lung cancer in his early 60s. The'd always smoked the same brand of cigarettes. When the switched brands, they switched together, and these were store bought cigarettes. They'd always eaten the same food. They did everything the same. He developed a cough shortly before he was diagnosed with cancer and died soon afterwards. She was in her mid 80 when I last saw her, still chain smoking, still working, and had never developed a cough.

I have a dear friend in his 50s who chain smokes but rolls his own. He seems to be healthy but coughs a lot.

I remember people from my childhood who chain smoked and lived to a ripe old age and never got cancer.

Yet my uncle who was a light smoker (max. 5 cigs per day) died of lung cancer at an early age and he had never worked with toxins nor was ever exposed to radiation other than the type of radiation we are all exposed to every day.

The picture is not black and white.

I think it's all about metabolism. If your system is like mine, meaning, I don't perspire very much, then the toxins will stay in your body and you have to be careful about your substance intake. If your system cleans itself out out properly, especially through the skin, then it probably releases most of the toxins it takes in.

The same goes for drinkers. Some people can drink excessive amounts of alcohol and still appear sober and carry a sane conversation.

Some people become total idiots after 1 drink.

Food: some people can eat excessive amounts of food and remain thin.
Others eat very small amounts and are somewhat overweight.

METABOLISM!

Of course, there are spiritual components to all this which I won't get into here. But as far as the physical goes, I think it's all about metabolism, how the body processes toxins, how many other types of pathogens the body is exposed to, how well your glands are working, how many other stressors you have in your life, etc., etc., etc.,

Every person is an individual and will be affected differently by different things.

[donk]

Every person is an individual and will be affected differently by different things.

I think this a dangerous perspective. Instead of just looking at the differences, you need to come at it from similarities as well.

I've seen heroin addicts say it was harder to give up cigs. I've never known anyone to be able "quit" without some struggle. There may be exceptions, but in this case there is a "rule": the addictive properties of cigs generally effect free will beyond most individuals ability to control their "need" for it. It is a form of slavery.

[Finefeather]

I saw an article on TV once, a while back, in South Africa, where they determined that if you are cooking meat over charcoal, you inhale more carcinogens in one cook-up as you would in 1 year of average smoking.

[Daughter of Time]

Posted by donk (here)

Every person is an individual and will be affected differently by different things.

I think this a dangerous perspective. Instead of just looking at the differences, you need to come at it from similarities as well.

I've seen heroin addicts say it was harder to give up cigs. I've never known anyone to be able "quit" without some struggle. There may be exceptions, but in this case there is a "rule": the addictive properties of cigs generally effect free will beyond most individuals ability to control their "need" for it. It is a form of slavery.

Don't misunderstand me. I am not an advocate of smoking. In general, I agree that smoking is a very bad habit. But it does beg the question as to why some people smoke and never get sick while others who have never smoked die of lung cancer.

[donk]

So the thread is to rationalize or quantify the relative harmfulness of smoking?

I believe in the benefits I have been told that come from cooking food. If I had a convincing body of info showing me how it was harmful, addictive, and there were no benefits, I would consider that, rather than trying to find things to justify it cuz it is "worse than eating rotting flesh".

If I did not want to stop cooking food over fire because I liked it & felt bad when people showed me how bad it was for me, I would shove unrelated examples of how much better it is than other bar habits so I could feel justified in continuing to do it.

[donk]

DoT--I love and agree with every point you made in your post. I cherry picked that line as it is perfect in how it applies to a lot of the bad ideas (which I do not feel you have) on this thread.

In other words, I used your words completely out of context as I liked the way I could twist them for my argument

...I totally smell what you're cooking and liked your post

[donk]

Especially that the issue is not black & white. I just feel there is.black/whiteness to it:

Most people able to purchase cigs are provided the knowledge that cigs are incredibly addictive and have more obvious harmful effects than positive (if any exist).

I have seen one example of positive effects of smoking, and that was when my ex bent way down to get a lighter off the floor of the car the second I flipped it onto the spot where her head would have been if she just sat there.

You could argue that smoking saved her life, but i would still not recommend starting or rationalize continuing to anyone.

[donk]

Maybe we should start a thread: "are taking opiates (for non-medical reasons) bad for you?"

It's not black and white, it's all about individuals, but at the end of the day, it's just a crazy thing to try to rationalize.

I've never known a conscious choice to smoke cigs have more positive consequences than negative. Can't we generalize in this case and conclude to not do so is rationalizing (cherry-picking exceptions)?

Where is the line in being able to condemn an addictive harmful habit?

[9eagle9]

Hating smoking makes it harder to quit. A lot of people have confessed to switching to organic tobacco and then finding it easier to stop the smoke because commercial tobacco has additional addictive chemicals in it. Commercial cigarettes are designed to addict you, organic ones are not. Commercial cigarettes are designed to make you sick.

Eating arena dust day in and day out makes me cough more.

The presence of hate in breaking any addiction is counter productive. People who hate that they constantly over eat are the ones who struggle the most with their weight.

After smoking organic for a long time and then trying a commerical cigarette is the kicker, I am coughing for at least 24 hours afterwards. There is a lot of programming in tobacco smoking, and who to say some of those chemicals in commercially grown tobacco aren't the triggers for diseases that have been introduce via programming. If that's the case its not going to take much smoke to trigger a disease program. Those who don't have that programming may never have a thing wrong with them because there is no program to trigger.

Posted by donk (here)
I haven't read all four pages yet, but the first didn't seem to address this issue:

Toxic or not, intention or not, I defy any smoker (10-30 corporate made a day) to claim you are not a slave to a habit. It doesn't matter if it makes us less tasty to vampires or if the chems actually help in mind control, there is no 3d physical benefit whatsoever, just the mental/emotional/comfort level pleasure.

And if you go too long without one, what happens? You need sh!tloads more intention for it to be ok not to have one, than any of these questionable examples of somehow rationalizing that intention can prevent the long term effects of ingesting burning poison.

I am a slave. I hate that i love to smoke. & that the consequences of withdrawal at this point are not worth the struggle with the grip addiction has on me. I hope soon I will hate it like I learned to hate alcohol, addiction of which caused enough problems that it became worth the battle.

For me, I learned I cannot manage an addiction without hating the source of it. I find rationalizing something as harmful and powerfully addictive as cigs sad--unless your a rep for Phillip Morris or glaxosmithcline or the other death industries.

[Daughter of Time]

Posted by donk (here)
Maybe we should start a thread: "are taking opiates (for non-medical reasons) bad for you?"

It's not black and white, it's all about individuals, but at the end of the day, it's just a crazy thing to try to rationalize.

I've never known a conscious choice to smoke cigs have more positive consequences than negative. Can't we generalize in this case and conclude to not do so is rationalizing (cherry-picking exceptions)?

Where is the line in being able to condemn an addictive harmful habit?

Well, since this thread was open to discussion, as is every thread, then I shared what i know from the experiences of people I know and have known. I was not voicing an opinion but merely observation. I know you got that.

I never said smoking was not bad for you. My post was not meant to defend smoking. I'm just puzzled by how some people do not take care of themselves and they're OK. I know a woman who has breast cancer and her health is very precarious right now. She has never smoked, drinks only occasionally and only organic wine, she is vegan, lives outside the polluted city, drinks only one cup of organic coffee in the morning, eats only organic foods, yet she has breast cancer! So...that is puzzling!

That's why I believe that there are many more factors involved in why some people get sick while others do not. Addictive, harmful habits should never be defended, but I think it's OK to discuss them and how they affect some people differently than they affect others.

i think it would be rather humorous to start a thread about whether opiates are bad for you. Only an opiate addict would defend that habit.

There could be other threads discussing whether hatred is bad for you, or whether violence is bad for you, or whether revenge is bad for you. I'm being fascetious, of course, because I think these things are definitely black and white. While coffee, for instance, which is also highly addictive, is bad for some people but good for others.

It was not my intention to play devil's advocate but merely to present my observations.

I feel the purpose of a thread is to present different opinions and different angles. I don't think anyone will ever make the statement that smoking is good for you.

[danceblackcatdance]

i watched my super strong stepfather die inside of 6 months of being hospitalised / diagnosed with lung cancer aged 57, smoking was bad for him.. he could have had it for longer though of course..

i've quit a few times, the longest for 7 years... was trickier this time as my gf smokes and am still asking her to stop..

addictions are generally 'not good' right...

[donk]

"Hating smoking" was bad choice of words, I apologize, it is a strong one that requires (more) qualification (I am struggling scrolling through on my phone, I hope I chose "I" instead of "you" in orginal statement:

I (me, not anyone else) need to no longer love or even be ok with being addicted to something, in order for me able to stop my addiction (aka make conscious choice against the will of my brain/body which craves the substance/behavior).

Second point, about this thread in particular, which as you clarify is about smoking and not addiction:

I have seen arguments about smoking not being as bad as other things (relative), even posed exceptions of how it can incedintally be helpful, seen how it is not as harmful to some people whether by accident or truly focused attention on it (so it is "not bad" for certain individuals, which seem to be exception), but only have seen one example of it actually being "not bad for you" (whether individually or generally):

we are not as tasty to negative ETs

Are there any others I missed?

[Ceedub]

I've made a few observations regarding this subject lately. I enjoy smoking organic tobacco. I smoke more than I should and it leaves my lungs slightly wet. As I learned more and more about how to care for my body and implemented certain techniques and supplements my lungs lost the slight wetness and became perfectly normal and dry as a healthy non smoker. I confirmed this observation when I became too lazy or self-loathing or whatever to implement the things I know are good for me and the slight wetness returned. Back on the regime and lungs are perfect. I'm not sure which particular thing I was doing was having the effect although turmeric is one of my favorite supplements and has been said through the ages to counter the effects of smoking.

Also I find that when my lungs become perfectly dry and normal either through raising my health or through extended periods of non-smoking I kind of miss that little bit of wetness. I start to get the feeling that my lungs become coated with fine dust and instead of having one or two good satisfying, cleansing coughs in a day I won't cough at all for long periods and then after a month or more I'll need to shift something more difficult out of my lungs. This is just an observation of some subtle physical states and I am not drawing any strong conclusions from it, I just submit it for consideration.

A couple of other notes... The programing around smoking is strong, strong, strong. In our culture it has become an axiomatic meme. My particular path towards Truth and Knowledge involves searching out these, sometimes hard to spot, memes and throwing them out completely so that I can rebuild them from scratch eliminating all corrupt sources. My health improved markedly as soon as I jetisoned this particular meme. As soon as I stopped accepting that tobacco was poison prima facia, and replaced it with the knowledge that this is a sacred plant in harmony with the natural Earth energies, my relationship with tobacco totally changed. My spirit is now friends with the spirit of tobacco. I commune with and honor that spirit every time I twist some up and smoke it.

I am proud to say that this year I have decided to grow my own tobacco for the first time. My little suburban home is graced with about twenty five absolutely gorgeous plants currently in full bloom. I am blessed. It is a beautiful sight.

Stilll though, I would be better off communing with the tobacco spirit closer to Modwiz's guidelines of four or five times a day rather than my current ten or fifteen.

Oh and lastly there is the cerimonial smoke break. I have always felt this a good thing that helps my work day roll along smoothly and bonds me with my co-workers, at least the smoking ones. Communication happens, tobacco is given and shared, it's the peace pipe thing and it is good. How do the non-smokers get by?

CW

[Connecting with Sauce]

What clean rolling tabacco would people recommend in the UK?

[9eagle9]

Well you can't Ceedub, non smokers are floopy ungrounded people that are off in some weird airy place and shouldn't be trusted....

actually the only non smokers I know that take issue with my smoking are on anti depressants, alcohol or some other form of self medication and they feel virtuous the same way my mother would remind everyone how she never touched alcohol--she was made of sturdier stuff--while gobbling handfuls of Valium. Literally be tossing a handful of pills whilst in full lecture mode.

My sister who wouldn't get her depression treated because it was weak but didn't mind that she was an evil roaring satanic bitch and made everyone miserable.

My eldest sister smoked and stayed away from just about everything. She doesn't even treat herself herbally save for her periodic marijuana habit.

Not that smoking makes one a Rhodes scholar, I know plenty of idiots who smoke....

Lungs represent intake and processing of emotions. We usually start smoking in our teens or early adult hood because we are not taught , nor encouraged, or know how to process emotions. So its a form of self medication like alcohol or dependency on certain prescription meds....

By the time we are able to process emotions, we have the habit. Which is emphasized by grabbing a smoke when one is stressed out. A means of coping with stress by grounding us.

Wet lung is an interesting term. I cough more when eating arena dust all day than i do when smoking ....the lungs are supposed to be moist to a certain extent, a monthly lung detox helps keep the mucous in balance.

[StarDust]

Yes and No…. My mom smoked for 50 years and quit a decade ago. She now suffers from chronic shortness of breath. My grandmother smoked the majority of her life - from a very young age until 83 when she woke up one day and decided it was bad for her. She lived to the ripe old age of 102. I think the effect depends on the person and wether or not it is within one's life lesson to learn from the ill effects of any addiction. Not all people who smoke will get cancer and die. As for how it effects those around you (smell, health effects. etc.) that is a different story all together.

[Swan]

Posted by donk (here)

Every person is an individual and will be affected differently by different things.

I think this a dangerous perspective. Instead of just looking at the differences, you need to come at it from similarities as well.

I've seen heroin addicts say it was harder to give up cigs. I've never known anyone to be able "quit" without some struggle. There may be exceptions, but in this case there is a "rule": the addictive properties of cigs generally effect free will beyond most individuals ability to control their "need" for it. It is a form of slavery.

I am the exception. Smoked from 19 to 23 and stopped without a struggle. Now I´ll smoke once or twice a year. No cravings.

Where I live smoking is vilified. Drinking yourself silly, and taking anti - depressants on the otherhand is fine. I find that strange.

The last time I smoked it was because I was feeling very sad and upset. My children were with me, and it was the first time they saw me smoke. I told them the truth: that smoking a cigarette helped me calm down.

I haven´t bothered looking for organic tobacco, since I smoke so rarely. But I would much rather my children smoke organic tobacco than drink or do drugs.

My scottish grandmother told me that her doctor when she was young used to say that smoking helped prevent many nervous breakdowns.