Obama is a good guy! (psssst! wanna buy the Statue of Liberty?)

[turiya]

Hey Dennis,

First thing - watch who you are calling names. I, for one, think Obama is a "good" guy.

Without people like Obama as deceiver, the international global elites feeding you & your family toxic waste foods, the banksters sucking the blood out of your bank accounts, the de facto government taxing you from cradle to grave, and the royal families & the clergy abusing your children, how else do you think the masses are going to wake up?

In this regard, all these people are indeed lightworkers.
There is good & bad in every situation.

Second thing: From my understanding this is what Drake is implying also. "Obama could be a switcheroonie" these are Drakes words. Drake was upset with Bill Brockbader because he came out with the information before Drake could do it.
http://wramsite.com/forum/topics/ins...ment%3A1295785

Third thing is - Come on! I think you need to exercise your ability to properly discern what is going on here.

This video is a clear sign that the Bilderberg Group has withdrawn their support for Obama's second term as President. Obama is being dumped. Here's the most recent Jeff Rense interview with Webster Griffin Tarpley (link below) in which they talk about this very thing. Its not the first time I have heard this.

References:
1) Webster Tarpley / Rense Interview: http://curezone.com/ig/i.asp?i=58905
2) New York Times Obama's Kill List article: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/wo...aeda.html?_r=1
3) Huffington Post - New York Times/White House Leaked Controversy: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1577430.html

The new 'puppet-to-be' is Mitt Romney.

Cheers - turiya

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
How sick is this?

The odds that Obama is a "good guy", hiding as a mole inside the Cabal-controlled US government, are approximately one quintillion to one. Anyone who says Obama is a good guy is a liar and a disinfo agent - or a stunningly dense fool and and unwitting disinfo agent.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeIkpr88H4E

Dennis

[the_vast_mystery]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
How sick is this?

The odds that Obama is a "good guy", hiding as a mole inside the Cabal-controlled US government, are approximately one quintillion to one. Anyone who says Obama is a good guy is a liar and a disinfo agent - or a stunningly dense fool and and unwitting disinfo agent.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeIkpr88H4E

Women and children murdered on the orders of President Obama
Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeIkpr88H4E

Dennis

Now, I'm not saying I know who is what. But let's suppose for a moment that you were a light worker, and had two young children and an unaware wife and you had to do an important covert job. In this covert job you had to do horrible things, you had to do horrible things because if you didn't, you'd quickly find your children strapped to a torture wrack and surrounded by people whose greatest joy was to slice, dice, inject, cut, burn, and peel anything and everything just to see what new patterns they could make from the spasms of bodily fluids that would be ejected during their actions. Suppose they also had superb medical training such to ensure they could keep this torture perpetual and they had a way to ensure doubles were there for public appearances. So it wouldn't be like they needed to ever stop the moment you stepped out of line to keep the functional image up.

Suppose you were that person, what would you do? Would you condemn your children and possibly wife to a lifetime of torture, or would you sign an executive order to send the drones into Pakistan knowing that eventually the info you got out would ensure that no drones went back and nobody's children got put on that wrack?

I think in some cases we forget that human beings who care about people are VERY VULNERABLE when dealing with psychopaths. Ultimately in this 3D world there is a lowest common denominator, everyone other than a psychopath cares about someone and that someone is their greatest weakness. It could be a wife, mother, kids, etc. Point being the moment you in any way become effected by someone else suffering, they have a weight they can hold over your head for time immemorial. Unless you're superman and willing to basically be the 24/7 bodyguard for that Lois Lane or Jimmy Olson you care for, there will come a time where the people you care about are vulnerable.

How would a light worker maturely handle such vulnerabilities? Let's not talk about Obama directly so much but let's hypothesize for a bit about what a real light worker would be doing in his position. What would they do differently, why? Before we get all up on the criticism bandwagon again, because lord knows I love it too, let's ask ourselves what "someone better" or rather "better decisions" we would've wanted to see. Then we can talk about whether we think Obama in any way measures up to what we could actually expect of a real human, with flaws and people who he might actually care about.

I don't know Obama, so I won't vouch and say any of this really reflects on him as a person. But my hope is this would be a far more constructive line of discussion.

[eileenrose]

Posted by the_vast_mystery (here)

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
How sick is this?

The odds that Obama is a "good guy", hiding as a mole inside the Cabal-controlled US government, are approximately one quintillion to one. Anyone who says Obama is a good guy is a liar and a disinfo agent - or a stunningly dense fool and and unwitting disinfo agent.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeIkpr88H4E

Women and children murdered on the orders of President Obama
Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeIkpr88H4E

Dennis

Now, I'm not saying I know who is what. But let's suppose for a moment that you were a light worker, and had two young children and an unaware wife and you had to do an important covert job. In this covert job you had to do horrible things, you had to do horrible things because if you didn't, you'd quickly find your children strapped to a torture wrack and surrounded by people whose greatest joy was to slice, dice, inject, cut, burn, and peel anything and everything just to see what new patterns they could make from the spasms of bodily fluids that would be ejected during their actions. Suppose they also had superb medical training such to ensure they could keep this torture perpetual and they had a way to ensure doubles were there for public appearances. So it wouldn't be like they needed to ever stop the moment you stepped out of line to keep the functional image up.

Suppose you were that person, what would you do? Would you condemn your children and possibly wife to a lifetime of torture, or would you sign an executive order to send the drones into Pakistan knowing that eventually the info you got out would ensure that no drones went back and nobody's children got put on that wrack?

I think in some cases we forget that human beings who care about people are VERY VULNERABLE when dealing with psychopaths. Ultimately in this 3D world there is a lowest common denominator, everyone other than a psychopath cares about someone and that someone is their greatest weakness. It could be a wife, mother, kids, etc. Point being the moment you in any way become effected by someone else suffering, they have a weight they can hold over your head for time immemorial. Unless you're superman and willing to basically be the 24/7 bodyguard for that Lois Lane or Jimmy Olson you care for, there will come a time where the people you care about are vulnerable.

How would a light worker maturely handle such vulnerabilities? Let's not talk about Obama directly so much but let's hypothesize for a bit about what a real light worker would be doing in his position. What would they do differently, why? Before we get all up on the criticism bandwagon again, because lord knows I love it too, let's ask ourselves what "someone better" or rather "better decisions" we would've wanted to see. Then we can talk about whether we think Obama in any way measures up to what we could actually expect of a real human, with flaws and people who he might actually care about.

I don't know Obama, so I won't vouch and say any of this really reflects on him as a person. But my hope is this would be a far more constructive line of discussion.

Who says Obama is a lightworker? I have to question that one (heard it said by channelers......). Sounds like a sales pitch for new agers.

I like to know the real reason you feel you need to give him support now? Not back in 2008, but now.

I feel we need to keep our attention on the ball...winning our freedom from corruption (if that can happen...). At least that is the ball I am looking at. Individuals don't matter to me. I don't care who he is....just what he re-presents. ...which is us. And he failed. So that is that (as far as I can see...about him).

I never put him on a pedestal because he is in the world of politics. But I did have a hope and a prayer he would turn toward helping people. And he hasn't done that.

But letting the idea go that is 'one of us' is the hard part. Because the mind (it always comes back to esoteric teachings) wants things to be a certain way and when the paradigm no longer fits, (like "obama' is a light worker...or how about the one I had...that he is a decent individual and might help fix the US's issues...or/and a human with a role to play in our evolution) we don't want to stop and re-evaluate.

That is all I am saying. I re-evaluating my initial feelings about his role and have changed my opinion based on the facts as they present themselves.

hope that explains it for you (why I posted 'negative' reports about him....first time for me).

[the_vast_mystery]

Please answer the question, what would a mature person put under those situations, hoping to do good, do differently?

I think this question is very, very important before we discuss anything else further. It underpins everything about how we are evaluating his job performance and it simply cannot be avoided if we want to have a further serious discussion about it.

[eileenrose]

Posted by the_vast_mystery (here)
Please answer the question, what would a mature person put under those situations, hoping to do good, do differently?

I think this question is very, very important before we discuss anything else further. It underpins everything about how we are evaluating his job performance and it simply cannot be avoided if we want to have a further serious discussion about it.

Stop making excuses (and we stop making excuses for him...no matter our intentions).....it is grind time (he needs to do a good job now.....no more waiting for a better time....otherwise the universe will just choose someone else that matters).

And if he is watching these films....then heaven help him.


----
PS:
And if we had to make a list of what bad decisions he has made....will we all know them already...they are all over PA threads.

....and that is what I am referring too.

He had many chances to show his colors and he just rolled over (for ....???...we only have our guesses...in reality).

I gave up on him when he gave on Wisconsin/the people's unions this month.

What, too busy avoiding reality to care (him)? I mean, isn't that what people are saying about him? Really? You (us) want someone who doesn't care in charge of us?

I don't. And if he is our only choice....then heaven help us.


---
pss: He is like the brother that comes home drunk every night. You think you know him and you try to get him to stop, but you are too close to see who he really is.

Time to take a step back and really look (not as someone against him....but as someone for him/everyone).
He doesn't need our sympathy. He needs to start seeing he is wrong about this....his not doing anything useful.

Just look. That is all I am asking (and nothing else currently).

[Dennis Leahy]

Posted by the_vast_mystery (here)
Please answer the question, what would a mature person put under those situations, hoping to do good, do differently?

I think this question is very, very important before we discuss anything else further. It underpins everything about how we are evaluating his job performance and it simply cannot be avoided if we want to have a further serious discussion about it.

It's just a grand hypothetical question. I can pose one:

What if...
... there are no evil humans on the planet, not a single one. Every single person you believe might be a sociopath is a Christ-conscious Bodhisattva who is simply playing a role. No evil is going on anywhere in the world. It's all staged, just for you. Every image you see of a child in a war torn country, apparently the victim of a drone bombing attack, is an actor, and all of the images are Photoshopped. Like the Jim Carrey movie, The Truman Show, except that all of this is done for your lessons, your call to compassion, stretching your ability to love.

What good does it do to pretend that someone who has repeatedly committed acts of depraved indifference and atrocity, and can look into the camera without blinking, without sadness in his eyes, and can glibly go on to the next subject in a slick segue - is a good guy? Sorry my friend, these are the actions and non-reactions of a sociopath/psychopath. You can't let him off the hook with a gilded "what if." No get out of jail free card for Obama.

Are the Bushes and Clintons really good guys too, that were simply trapped by threats to their families?

I have heard Obama described as a master hypnotist, and I can only think that those who cling to Obama being not only a good guy, but a lightworker must be under a hypnotic spell.

Dennis

[CdnSirian]

Boy you took a leap with this thread. It addresses the questions:

--do any presidents have power to change the direction previous administrations have taken? Ever?
-- was he surprised/confused/overwhelmed with the agenda he could/could not change?

Does it matter who is president?

I realize that your site The Reset Button addresses all of this. I hope more will read it.

[the_vast_mystery]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

Posted by the_vast_mystery (here)
Please answer the question, what would a mature person put under those situations, hoping to do good, do differently?

I think this question is very, very important before we discuss anything else further. It underpins everything about how we are evaluating his job performance and it simply cannot be avoided if we want to have a further serious discussion about it.

It's just a grand hypothetical question. I can pose one:

What if...
... there are no evil humans on the planet, not a single one. Every single person you believe might be a sociopath is a Christ-conscious Bodhisattva who is simply playing a role. No evil is going on anywhere in the world. It's all staged, just for you. Every image you see of a child in a war torn country, apparently the victim of a drone bombing attack, is an actor, and all of the images are Photoshopped. Like the Jim Carrey movie, The Truman Show, except that all of this is done for your lessons, your call to compassion, stretching your ability to love.

What good does it do to pretend that someone who has repeatedly committed acts of depraved indifference and atrocity, and can look into the camera without blinking, without sadness in his eyes, and can glibly go on to the next subject in a slick segue - is a good guy? Sorry my friend, these are the actions and non-reactions of a sociopath/psychopath. You can't let him off the hook with a gilded "what if." No get out of jail free card for Obama.

Are the Bushes and Clintons really good guys too, that were simply trapped by threats to their families?

I have heard Obama described as a master hypnotist, and I can only think that those who cling to Obama being not only a good guy, but a lightworker must be under a hypnotic spell.

Dennis

In that case I'd say it's failing horribly because at the end of the day I will have to blame someone, and it'll either be between hating others for what they've done or hating myself for not personally stopping it all. In which case most likely the final decision would be the latter.

So you can't ever imagine a situation where you are forced to decide who lives and who dies? Not if they die? Sophie's choice anyone? Sometimes reality does face us down with some pretty horrible situations where we're between a rock and a hard place.

I'll be as critical as the next person of a lot of things Obama could have done, especially regarding his handling of the banks and capitulating over the deficit; sometimes though I think people are just getting pissed off at their own feeling of impotence (hell I know I do) and projecting way too much onto him. I'm appalled at the CIA'S illegal Drone program but more than just venting still more blind rage yet again at the state of the country I'd also like to put the moment to good use by considering new arguments and possibilities to ensure I'm not personally erring in my own understanding of the situation. By playing Devil's advocate you can learn something once in a while.

Rather than get into another curse fest where we all jump up and down calling our elected officials various names I thought it'd be much more interesting to evaluate the possibility of "what if" that were true. If we could come up with a reasonable hypothetical about what we would expect someone who actually DID fit the bill as an insider in the government working to break the shadow government wide open we could then do an ACTUAL comparison to Obama and see if he passed muster. You know, kind of actually trying to figure something out to put a discussion more firmly to rest rather than continue the circular firing squad. But no, please go on ahead without me; I can see you have things all taken care of.

[Dennis Leahy]

TVM, Why not say the same for Dick Cheney? He's just not ready to spring the trap ... yet.

How long do you give Obama? a full 4-yerr term? A full 8-years? At what point, when he does not assist in the Big Takedown will you understand he was only fooling you/us?

If he is doing something against his will, he is BY FAR the greatest actor of all time.

Dennis

[the_vast_mystery]

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
TVM, Why not say the same for Dick Cheney? He's just not ready to spring the trap ... yet.

How long do you give Obama? a full 4-yerr term? A full 8-years? At what point, when he does not assist in the Big Takedown will you understand he was only fooling you/us?

If he is doing something against his will, he is BY FAR the greatest actor of all time.

Dennis

Really, what about Heath Ledger? ;p

And what does it matter what I say or think about Obama? Does my individual voice even matter? LOL! I'm just like you, one random internet poster who has maybe just enough money to barely eek out some comfort in his life.
I hate a lot of the things that come out of Washington but really what are we going to do? I was actually thinking it'd be constructive to finally find a logical way to put a nail in the coffin for what I thought was a horrible argument for Obama.

I'm not saying it about Dick Cheney because there is no disagreement over Dick Cheney; apparently the alternative community is currently having big community disagreements over the nature of Obama. I thought finding a way to actually prove who had the better case for their argument might end that very disagreement. I will humbly admit I was wrong there.

Apparently rage is more in vogue than reason. So appealing to the fashions of the time I shall take my leave.

[turiya]

Posted by the_vast_mystery (here)
Please answer the question, what would a mature person put under those situations, hoping to do good, do differently?

I think this question is very, very important before we discuss anything else further. It underpins everything about how we are evaluating his job performance and it simply cannot be avoided if we want to have a further serious discussion about it.

What would a mature person do?

A mature individual certainly would not be seeking a second term as President to do more of the same.
In fact, a truly mature individual would not have run for President in the first place.
Perhaps, he has matured much since first taking the oath of office. If so, then he would step down and be truthful to the people as to why he is stepping down.

The problem is that the majority of people are not mature.
Hence, the reason why immature people get elected & are running the show.

t

[spiritguide]

Posted by the_vast_mystery (here)

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
TVM, Why not say the same for Dick Cheney? He's just not ready to spring the trap ... yet.

How long do you give Obama? a full 4-yerr term? A full 8-years? At what point, when he does not assist in the Big Takedown will you understand he was only fooling you/us?

If he is doing something against his will, he is BY FAR the greatest actor of all time.

Dennis

Really, what about Heath Ledger? ;p

And what does it matter what I say or think about Obama? Does my individual voice even matter? LOL! I'm just like you, one random internet poster who has maybe just enough money to barely eek out some comfort in his life.
I hate a lot of the things that come out of Washington but really what are we going to do? I was actually thinking it'd be constructive to finally find a logical way to put a nail in the coffin for what I thought was a horrible argument for Obama.

I'm not saying it about Dick Cheney because there is no disagreement over Dick Cheney; apparently the alternative community is currently having big community disagreements over the nature of Obama. I thought finding a way to actually prove who had the better case for their argument might end that very disagreement. I will humbly admit I was wrong there.

Apparently rage is more in vogue than reason. So appealing to the fashions of the time I shall take my leave.

To satisfy your initial lightworker question, if threatened with such nonsense, the person or persons orating such threat would be on notice that if anything untoward happened that they would be expedited for departure from this plane of existance in a very clear manner. The hyperthetical would become real very fast. One question for you, define rage and reason as they pertain to this thread?

[the_vast_mystery]

Posted by spiritguide (here)
To satisfy your initial lightworker question, if threatened with such nonsense, the person or persons orating such threat would be on notice that if anything untoward happened that they would be expedited for departure from this plane of existance in a very clear manner. The hyperthetical would become real very fast. One question for you, define rage and reason as they pertain to this thread?

Rage being an uncontrollable expression of supreme frustration and anguish which destructively tears at all around (including the person raging) often without their awareness of it. That would be exemplified by the circular firing squad deciding instead of answering my question to try and settle a difference deciding it'd be a better idea to just call me insane, throw up a bunch of excuses for why we shouldn't try to think about this situation clearly/logically and then to top it off implying I'm mentally deficient for not reaching the same immediate shared conclusion they have and join right on in support of the current hate-fest.

Reason being the application of logic (and as best an understanding of human psychology as we can muster) to perform an evaluation upon the performance of Obama to determine in the most realistic way possible if we actually could have "Expected better" from him, and where we should have, so as to in specific isolate reasons for why the given scenario (such as him being a light worker) would not hold true in this reality. It would put the argument to rest in a more sound way by providing a clear example of what we would expect from the person in the given position and how those realistic expectations were sorely lacking in Obama.

Now as far as "Extraction" from this plane goes though I don't think we can count that as a realistic option available to everyone. How many important people do you know of who can just "Vanish" without the world taking notice? If ETs can't fly their UFOs clearly and land in public they certainly can't just randomly remove important figures from the planet the moment their children come under threat and certainly not the President of the USA. If anything light workers are here as spiritual commandos expected to go deep into enemy territory with no supply line our outside support and win important early victories under those conditions to pave the way for the main forces (first contact) to arrive.

When you send commandos behind enemy lines you can't just extract them unless you can do it without putting yourself at risk. Most times that means getting to a given extraction point at a set time after radioing for pickup. In this case I think the requirements would be a bit steeper given the nature of the situation. How could Obama or his kids therefore be "Extracted" safely? Say the ETs take his kids to safety, say they take the wife to safety? What's to say the Cabal wouldn't immediately use that as a sign to know he'd violated their agreements and have them then immediately replace him and destroy all of the ground he laid if that were to happen before they were ousted? If he were actually a "mole" planted to aid in the Cabal's destruction he would need to continue his cover right up until the very end, otherwise there wouldn't be a way to keep getting info out on the Cabal's plans and guarantee any ground gained was not lost. Well, if you assume the situation were what was happening. Especially if you consider that getting a "Presidential" mole, would be the hardest thing to ever pull off considering how tightly elections are controlled and how tightly the bloodlines of all of our presidents are connected.

Now, here's where we have an interesting space for discussion though. What WOULD be the most effective moves a potential Presidential Light Worker could make? Would attempting to overtly reveal the Cabal even work? Is there a way he could find a way to say declare an emergency announcement that would tip the world off before they had a chance to censor it? Could he gather access to hard evidence and display it in a way not easily undone? Or would going the covert route and acting as an information siphon be more effective? Why or why not?

edit:

Posted by turiya (here)
What would a mature person do?

A mature individual certainly would not be seeking a second term as President to do more of the same. In fact, a truly mature individual would not have run for President in the first place.
Perhaps, he has matured much since first taking the oath of office. If so, then he would step down and be truthful to the people as to why he is stepping down.

The problem is that the majority of people are not mature.
Hence, the reason why immature people get elected & are running the show.

t

You're making an astounding number of assumptions here regarding what Obama may or may not do as well as who he may or may not be. How do you know it will be more of the same? You're predicting it because that's what everyone else might've done. Yet here we are discussing a somewhat outlandish but still technically possible scenario where that would be exactly what wouldn't happen. For purposes of discussion it'd be nice if you actually considered this possibility just to explore it a bit more rather than angrily shouting "It could never be!" without the slightest reason why other than a sour mood.

Seems you've already closed up shop and laid judgement down on this one. A truly matured person wouldn't run for President? So there's no intel to be gleaned from being #1 on the public power pyramid of the world? No good could be done at all? How are you so sure?

This is why I say "Rage is more in Vogue than reason." Rather than answer my questions to try and explore more interesting new avenues of discussion everyone would rather just scream about how they hate Obama and all he's done. It might be for good reasons, but it's certainly not productive and it apparently is part of what's producing a fissure among some people in the alternative community.

Sure would be nicer if we could talk about this issue and reach some kind of consensus. But I think some of us right now just want to be angry. Not that I'm not guilty of it as well, but if we don't remind ourselves we're never going to get any better.

[spiritguide]

The threat is what was addressed and a counter threat was my answer for those making the threat. As in a game of chess 'check' . Really don't care if public knows family first ya know. If puppet master made threat then his puppet master would be sacrificing him if harm was done and now he is aware that he is dispensable also, ect. A true light worker knows the game well.

Any messenger who carries a threat is on a suicide mission in my viewpoint. IMHO

[the_vast_mystery]

Threats are only as good as your ability to back them up with force or bluff your opponent into believing you have the force to back them up. My response was that extraction as far as we can see is not a very good counter-threat. Why would someone like that be able to reasonably say they could extract themselves and their loved ones away from harm immediately when there is no evidence to back up the idea that positive ETs are allowed to do something so grandiose? Everything posted about positive ETs suggests they literally cannot appear here unless the majority of the population both wants to believe they exist and wants them to arrive. Given that, it would undermine the argument that a Light Worker could radio for support from their mothership and get an urgent pickup if they became compromised.

Commandos are trained to act on their own, assess the situation and if needed entirely on their own "Disappear" into the jungle or locale they're in and hide under cover for extended periods of time. Yes they can eventually expect to get picked up but not until the operational situation allows for it. Right now, that does not appear to be the case. Conversely if you'd like to put forth an argument as to why this is a mistaken assessment I'd be all ears.

Messenger who carries a threat? I think my original analogy may have been misunderstood. My point was that everything we know about this "Cabal" indicates that they are essentially psychopaths with help from negative 4D beings who lust after power/control and use murder, rape and torture as their preferred methods of eliciting compliance in their subordinates. So the idea being that a Light Worker attempting to infiltrate the Cabal can't just go right out and defy them without expecting prompt retaliation at his weak points. In the case of a potential Obama, that'd be two daughters and one wife (which for the sake of the hypothetical since we're assuming he'd be a "good guy" that he did care about them a lot.) So he wouldn't have a lot of latitude to operate under, he'd have one and only one chance to do something they didn't approve of and then he'd need to immediately go into hiding lest his entire family find themselves on a torture rack somewhere.

This, above all, seems consistent with the descriptions thus far as to their operating tactics. They'd punish his family primarily to keep him "on the ball" and use them as tools to keep him "on the ball" for as long as he was necessary to their plans. This doesn't mean that he might not be able to escape and keep them safe either. But we have to understand, once he blows it's cover that's it. Like an assassin, he only gets his one one shot. How would that one shot best be used? Isn't their value in continued intel collection and leaking to proper sources so that the Cabal might be routed in secret? Is such a thing feasible? What I'm trying to get at, more clearly, is what is the most good a single operative as president could hope to do while in their term as president? What would be the most effective way to strike at the Cabal from such a position? Overt, or covert, why or why not?

So far nobody seems really willing to explore possible answers to those and that saddens me a bit.

[turiya]

Posted by the_vast_mystery (here)
You're making an astounding number of assumptions here regarding what Obama may or may not do as well as who he may or may not be. How do you know it will be more of the same?

Astounding number of assumptions? I would not say assumptions. I would call them statements of psychological fact.
Anybody that wants to be a President, it is self-evident, these people are socio-psychopaths. Anybody that wants to be above others, leading others, has an inferiority complex. The person is automatically a sicko.

Under a proper system of government, individuals are nominated. Nominated by the people. Not hand picked by a few elitists. And this is how these so-called 'nominated candidates' are selected, they are hand picked by a few wealthy elitists. The globalists have hand-picked candidates who want to be President. They are not nominated, the carrot is dangled out in front of them and they go for the bait. And the corporate media helps to make it happen. For the proof go watch the documentary film "Spin"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...81953466797353

Now, I can certainly allow a psychologically sick person to become mentally healthy some day again.
Insanity has been defined as doing the same thing over & over again and expecting a different outcome.
I have clearly left Obama that opening in the way I made that statement... " A mature individual certainly would not be seeking a second term as President to do more of the same."

You're predicting it because that's what everyone else might've done.

How do you see what I said as making a prediction. I would call it 'describing the condition' as it has existed up to now.

I can make a prediction, though, and it is as such: I predict that Obama will be given the opportunity to look like hero.

He will be given the opportunity to come out of this & go down in history as being a hero. Yes - up to his ears in all kinds of unlawful crap - treason, social security card fraud, birth certificate fraud, international war crimes, etc. He will be given the choice of either spending time in prison for the rest of his days, or take on a new assignment, opposite to the role he has played for the Illuminati. Yes, I can see that this will take place, in order so this nation will not disintegrate.

But, please, don't be so gullible to believe that he will pull this off because he is such an honorable individual of integrity. No! He will do it to save his own skin. And so this country will not break down into a civil war type of scenario.
He is basically a salesman. A good salesman, too. Many people are still buying what he promised before he was elected. He is a master at double-speak. A Nobel Peace Prize laureate selling war as peace - right out of 1984. He has been selling the NWO's Agenda 21.

The new deal will be -He will be offered the opportunity to sell to the people this new deal, a second round of "real change" will be on the way. And he will be provided the proper protection if he agrees.
Now, there is my prediction.

The biggest thing I have noticed with posting here on this forum, and that is, whatever is written by one person, more often than not, others are pasting over their own interpretations of it, entirely different from what is written. There is alot of hallucinating going on here.
For example, you are saying I am "angrily shouting" and have "a sour mood". This, just is not the case.

You are not reading what was written. You are glossing over your own rant onto something I am simply stating.
I am not the one that is charged with emotion, here.

I can see you are an intelligent individual. So, please try to see more clearly.

Cheers - turiya

Posted by the_vast_mystery (here)

Posted by turiya (here)
What would a mature person do?
A mature individual certainly would not be seeking a second term as President to do more of the same. In fact, a truly mature individual would not have run for President in the first place.
Perhaps, he has matured much since first taking the oath of office. If so, then he would step down and be truthful to the people as to why he is stepping down.

The problem is that the majority of people are not mature.
Hence, the reason why immature people get elected & are running the show.

t

You're making an astounding number of assumptions here regarding what Obama may or may not do as well as who he may or may not be. How do you know it will be more of the same? You're predicting it because that's what everyone else might've done. Yet here we are discussing a somewhat outlandish but still technically possible scenario where that would be exactly what wouldn't happen. For purposes of discussion it'd be nice if you actually considered this possibility just to explore it a bit more rather than angrily shouting "It could never be!" without the slightest reason why other than a sour mood.

Seems you've already closed up shop and laid judgement down on this one. A truly matured person wouldn't run for President? So there's no intel to be gleaned from being #1 on the public power pyramid of the world? No good could be done at all? How are you so sure?

This is why I say "Rage is more in Vogue than reason." Rather than answer my questions to try and explore more interesting new avenues of discussion everyone would rather just scream about how they hate Obama and all he's done. It might be for good reasons, but it's certainly not productive and it apparently is part of what's producing a fissure among some people in the alternative community.

Sure would be nicer if we could talk about this issue and reach some kind of consensus. But I think some of us right now just want to be angry. Not that I'm not guilty of it as well, but if we don't remind ourselves we're never going to get any better.

[spiritguide]

Your definition of lightworker is one that works with aliens. This is not a light worker in my view. Nothing left to discuss unless properly defined and agreed to beforehand. Good luck!

[the_vast_mystery]

Posted by turiya (here)
Astounding number of assumptions? I would not say assumptions. I would call them statements of psychological fact.
Anybody that wants to be a President, it is self-evident, these people are socio-psychopaths. Anybody that wants to be above others, leading others, has an inferiority complex. The person is automatically a sicko.

So there are never any mistakes? There is no possibility of something different ever happening? Miracles don't exist? There is no hope at all? We're all doomed so don't even bother trying to think about what's actually happening? Just yell really really loudly at anyone who disagrees until they shut up? Why do I say this? Because you just stereotyped a huge swathe of the planet in a hasty generalization without even providing any sound basis for this classification. You're just calling a large number of people names out of what, a belief that since some of these people have wronged you therefore they're now ALL guilty? This is the same sort of tactic used by someone in the heat of the moment who cannot stand what the other person in the debate has to say and instead of making serious rebuttal, attempts to shout their opponent down hoping that this will cover for the fact they are not saying anything of any actual substance.

In short, it's what an angry person does when they know they're losing, pound the table (by throwing out baseless accusations.)

Posted by turiya (here)
Under a proper system of government, individuals are nominated. Nominated by the people. Not hand picked by a few elitists. And this is how these so-called 'nominated candidates' are selected, they are hand picked by a few wealthy elitists. The globalists have hand-picked candidates who want to be President. They are not nominated, the carrot is dangled out in front of them and they go for the bait. And the corporate media helps to make it happen. For the proof go watch the documentary film "Spin"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...81953466797353

For purposes of this discussion we are talking about a hypothetical light worker. In case you forgot to read the posts prior to this last one the debate is that many people in the alternative community are sure Obama's a Light Worker or "Good Guy" or "Switcheroo" or something of the sort. Now, Some disagree very vehemently and say he's evil like the rest. I thought it would be fun to see what we could expect if there were a serious attempt to do what was suggested, and attempt to implant a Light Workers as a Presidential candidate. It's technically possible if you go along with a lot of the new age spiritual paradigm. Someone could, pre-incarnatively essentially make an agreement to live a life in the circle of the elites, presumably up until a certain point, and then begin a covert mission to leak intel or even perhaps make one bold move to corner the Cabal publicly. This would be a lot like the Manchurian candidate, only in our case for the light worker side.

This is the scenario being discussed, so you are saying that it is 100% impossible for this situation to ever occur? Why or why not?

Posted by turiya (here)
Now, I can certainly allow a psychologically sick person to become mentally healthy some day again.
Insanity has been defined as doing the same thing over & over again and expecting a different outcome.
I have clearly left Obama that opening in the way I made that statement... " A mature individual certainly would not be seeking a second term as President to do more of the same."

Only the problem is you don't know the full situation. Suppose the only reason we even know this much about the secret government was that Obama helped gum up the works somehow? There's a phrase I really like and it was made pertaining to the CIA but it really holds true for any covert operative. "Everyone knows about our failures, no one, knows about our successes." Well, no one other than those off world probably. But given this and given we are discussing a hypothetical situation and not just going on what we have now, as that was OBVIOUSLY not enough to put this issue to rest. I'd like to focus on the idea of how, if Obama were as described, or hell anyone else, how would we know?

What would a Light Worker in this role do? Would there be signs we could pick up on? How would you know if someone was performing such a role? By discussing the hypothetical we actually can discuss reasons why the situation wouldn't work at all or couldn't occur given the present conditions. So far though no one has discussed those reasons and instead is content to tell me I'm wrong for even bringing the subject up. Obviously people believe in this so rather then let the subject go in circles why not investigate the possibility so it can finally be put to rest? Why are you so resistant to even discussing a hypothetical situation?

It seems like people are upset that I might somehow take away their reason to be angry. Why do I say this? Because this entire thread and the posts in it are filled with a lot of angrily worded (although well-meaning) posts regarding their own perspectives as to why they believe Obama is evil and not a mole. Point being all of this info we get from everyone being "insider info" meaning that very little of it can be taken as fact rather than possibility just like those cheerleading For Obama. Either way, you both are basing their arguments on the same sort of potentially imaginary insider testimony to form those opinions. So it's not like either side has a strong position to argue from. Still, there is a persistent refusal to discuss my harmless hypothetical and it is often met with angry or accusing language suggesting that I personally am now somehow deficient for even bringing up the idea. This would indicate that people are wounded and feel I am attacking them personally (entirely by suggesting something which might have the potential to challenge the validity of their opinions) and therefore doing their best to maintain those positions by finding any way to shut down the discussion before it can occur.

Posted by turiya (here)
How do you see what I said as making a prediction. I would call it 'describing the condition' as it has existed up to now.

We're discussing a hypothetical for purpose of settling a debate, not managing our expectations so that the sober reality doesn't knock us on our duff. Whether or not that is likely to be the case is therefore irrelevant and by deferring to that you're either admitting you haven't been reading what I was saying or that you don't care and would prefer to just be an angry angry Aardvark and vent about Obama.

Posted by turiya (here)
I can make a prediction, though, and it is as such: I predict that Obama will be given the opportunity to look like hero.

He will be given the opportunity to come out of this & go down in history as being a hero. Yes - up to his ears in all kinds of unlawful crap - treason, social security card fraud, birth certificate fraud, international war crimes, etc. He will be given the choice of either spending time in prison for the rest of his days, or take on a new assignment, opposite to the role he has played for the Illuminati. Yes, I can see that this will take place, in order so this nation will not disintegrate.

But, please, don't be so gullible to believe that he will pull this off because he is such an honorable individual of integrity. No! He will do it to save his own skin. And so this country will not break down into a civil war type of scenario.
He is basically a salesman. A good salesman, too. Many people are still buying what he promised before he was elected. He is a master at double-speak. A Nobel Peace Prize laureate selling war as peace - right out of 1984. He has been selling the NWO's Agenda 21.

The new deal will be -He will be offered the opportunity to sell to the people this new deal, a second round of "real change" will be on the way. And he will be provided the proper protection if he agrees.
Now, there is my prediction.

That sure is a nice one, and probably very correct; sadly it doesn't have an awful lot to do with the subject at hand. ;p

Posted by turiya (here)
The biggest thing I have noticed with posting here on this forum, and that is, whatever is written by one person, more often than not, others are pasting over their own interpretations of it, entirely different from what is written. There is alot of hallucinating going on here.
For example, you are saying I am "angrily shouting" and have "a sour mood". This, just is not the case.

They're the implied tone of your (and others) sentences. People don't literally have to shout at their computers, they can express that same level of anger through their verbiage and the structure of their arguments. Case in point being how you're glossing over the content of my arguments to dance around the subject and try to paint me as naive. You are ignoring every single post I've made regarding this subject, ignored that I was discussing a hypothetical, ignored my reason for posing the hypothetical and continued to hammer home your own opinion as to why Obama must be a horrible human being. Your reasons aren't even bad ones but they certainly have zero to do with anything I was saying.

There are only two ways to explain this, either you are being purposefully obtuse, meaning your intent was to abuse my good faith attempt at discussion and debate to score points and shame anyone who was disagreeing with you; or you do not understand the subject being discussed (and should consider not chiming in until you do.) You also weren't the one I said was "screaming." The sentence was a general description meant to reflect the tone of the thread, people would rather write a lot of very angrily worded letters of disapproval about Obama and anyone supporting him rather than seriously discuss anything I have to say. The specific choice of words was meant to reflect that people would rather this thread be an echo chamber for collective anger going nowhere. The word "screaming" in specific was meant to refer to the level of vitriol in some of the posts here.

The "Sour Mood" and "angrily shouting" would reflect on the idea that realistically speaking if you were in the right you could talk to me about my hypothetical and probably come out correct. Rather you've chosen to ignore the hypothetical to join in the general consensus of the thread to tell me how and why I'm naive or whatever name you want to (directly or indirectly through the implications in various sentences.) call me. This would then evidence that your choice was one to side with collective anger and frustration rather than take me up on my offer of good-faith debate over a hypothetical. This then tend to suggest that you were perhaps in a sour mood if you chose anger and therefore that it was not too far beyond the pale to believe your statements are conveying a level of anger as well since that was your choice. This would then mean that you could summarize your response to me as a moderately anger-laced attempt to ignore my points and shut down the discussion. Another form of this, is angry shouting; "It could never be!" being the nicest angry shouting words I could come up with that seemed in context and inoffensive. ;p

It's all based on observations, if I'm mistaken, pointing out where and when I'm mistaken allows them to be corrected.

Posted by turiya (here)
You are not reading what was written.

On the contrary, if anything I'm reading too much into what was written to draw my conclusions. You seem to think that the only thing that matters in a discussion is the literal statement. Actually, when you look at how sentences are written and arguments for debate formed you can draw quite a lot of logically implied information out of them and form a fuller idea about what the person was trying to convey. Just like how in person tone and inflection matter, on the internet everything from your style of argumentation, choice of words, sentences, etc can reveal something extra about the idea you're expressing. Granted, such implied information is not always correct. But these responses are an opportunity to resolve them.

If I said: "We don't need no public Healthcare! If you can't afford it you shouldn't have a right to it!" It could be then implied given the actual statistical data regarding healthcare costs and the number of people living in poverty that I did not care in the slightest about those people and would rather greedily keep every penny of my income even if it meant hundreds of thousands died. You could say I was being pretty evil right there. There are other reasons why someone might possibly say that, but from that point on if I state that's how it seems it becomes the other person's job to point out the error lest all assume the speaker was in fact correct.

Posted by turiya (here)
You are glossing over your own rant onto something I am simply stating.

First of all, I'm glossing over my own rant? No I'm not, I'm even telling you that you're ignoring my original hypothetical and attempting to side-step that whole discussion in favor of insisting on what you're somehow absolutely sure Obama will do: Because it's a psychological fact, don'tcha know!
Yes Kettle, we're both black now, let's just face it. ;p

Posted by turiya (here)
I am not the one that is charged with emotion, here.

No, we both are, the difference is I'm willing to admit when I get exited over a debate (and the accompanying chance to be bitingly sarcastic) and you're insisting that you're still the lone adult in the room.

Posted by turiya (here)
I can see you are an intelligent individual. So, please try to see more clearly.

Cheers - turiya

See more clearly? As in seeing it your way? As in blindly agreeing to your point of view? Homie don't play that game.

Posted by spiritguide (here)
Your definition of lightworker is one that works with aliens. This is not a light worker in my view. Nothing left to discuss unless properly defined and agreed to beforehand. Good luck!

Then what did you mean by "Expedited departure from this plane?" That sounds a lot like "the management (aliens) will retrieve me if things go awry!" Because in the given hypothetical the torture isn't a direct "threat" being made to the candidate, it's a reality being acknowledged as to how the Cabal does operate according to what we can figure so far. So therefore any light worker as president would immediately be under the assumed threat of "Do what the masters want or everything you hold dear in the world will be burnt and broken before your eyes." How does one handle that?

More importantly though, if you assume there's only one real chance to disobey, what would be the wisest use of it? What would your work be as President? That sort of thing, taking into consideration the consequences of discovery or disobeying towards your hypothetical family.

[eileenrose]

re: from Vast_. "Does my individual voice even matter? "
Everytime.
We just don't see it (too close, I suppose).

I can hear the tone quality, the feeling of being defeated (already).

I wouldn't give up just yet.
....

[eileenrose]

re:

"For purposes of this discussion we are talking about a hypothetical light worker. In case you forgot to read the posts prior to this last one the debate is that many people in the alternative community are sure Obama's a Light Worker or "Good Guy" or "Switcheroo" or something of the sort. Now, Some disagree very vehemently and say he's evil like the rest. I thought it would be fun to see what we could expect if there were a serious attempt to do what was suggested, and attempt to implant a Light Workers as a Presidential candidate. It's technically possible if you go along with a lot of the new age spiritual paradigm. Someone could, pre-incarnatively essentially make an agreement to live a life in the circle of the elites, presumably up until a certain point, and then begin a covert mission to leak intel or even perhaps make one bold move to corner the Cabal publicly. This would be a lot like the Manchurian candidate, only in our case for the light worker side.

This is the scenario being discussed, so you are saying that it is 100% impossible for this situation to ever occur? Why or why not?
"

from several posts above.

In general, more esoterically, since that seems to be a theme here (to discuss), you will see the person in front of you as a mirror, an expression of self. At least that is what the guru's taught me. And it has it's facts in reality (this assumption,,...for others a mere fact and or hinderance). So when we project onto Obama, we project all the stuff we have associated with that particular character (archetype). Some may see him as an inspiration (not me). Some may see him as an obstacle to be overcome (sort of me). Some may sense he has evil intent - thought that concept would have to be discussed....ie. there is no such thing as an evil person...just unseen evil within.

So who then is Obama, if all we see our mirrors for/of our own creation?

Now that is an excellent question. And I can answer it, but in words some may see as difficult to understand/relate to or even just accept as fact.
Unless your system is clear of every archetype, you won't be able to see reality...as a person truly is, in that moment.

So I cleared my system (took 10 years or so)...and with the help of this thread we are starting to see the man behind the program.

Whether we like this fellow or not is another question.
But obviously, once you start to see this type of information for yourself, do you even care? Because suddenly you see the 'why' (that we are all projecting, all the time and that is creating our version of what we refer to as 'reality') behind everything. And that is the important part. Not really who is running the country (which in this case, depending on who you talk to, are some people hiding out from view).