Freewill and the channel wars

[TargeT]

Posted by seigiarchon (here)
i was "attacked" in the so-called channel wars.. tell me.. how do i protect myself from people who are trying to "attack" me in the channel wars again..

does a firewall or vpn help? if you cannot give me some answers which i can use to protect myself in the future, then i am gonna ask the mods to delete my account..

if any of you wanna give me some advice on how to protect myself, you can PM me.. if no one is gonna help me out here.. then i will ask the mods to delete my account..

This collection of words tells me a bit about you

1) you have fear & expect retribution, perhaps based on guilt or perhaps based on a hyped set of "information" you have read

2) you don't have the best grasp on Information Technology

3) you think yourself important enough ( or other people motivated enough) that you would be targeted and "attacked"



as for advice:

Firstly:
You should ALWAYS have a fire wall & virus protection (AVG ( http://free.avg.com/us-en/free-antivirus-download) and ZoneAlarm (http://www.zonealarm.com/security/es...e-download.htm) are free offering's that will work fine, and are what I use at home).

Secondly:
the chances of you being attacked are very very low, it RARELY happens and the majority of the time that it does happen it is random, or self inflicted NOT targeted.

Hope this puts your mind at ease, but really, if you don't feel "safe" here, by all means go where you do feel safe; your (apparent) propensity to assume a victim role will follow you elsewhere however (methinks).

[Paul]

Posted by seigiarchon (here)
if the hosts of this forum do not wanna protect me or give me some advice on how to protect myself.. words cost nothing to anyone.. then i will leave .. simple as that..

The mods (hosts?) of this forum have some modest abilities and tools they can use to keep the forum running and mostly well behaved, at some level.

These abilities and tools may or may not apply here; it's hard to tell with so little to go on. Attacks can occur, or be felt, at levels in which the mods have no special powers to deflect or wisdom to impart.

[9eagle9]

AKT-TEWLY....

There IS a mass ascension occurring , the double speak sort. No one ever says what or who is ascending; it just says you are ascending. No one ever actually asks about what is ascendant although its a very common word or what may be ascending. They just accept that they are and of course, it must be a good thing.

Does ANYONE ever question that perhaps Ascension is NOT automatically a desirable event.

No. Hardly ever.

I see ass-ended people all the time and I thank god i am not them.

As with other marked epochs in history(and RAF has recently made a whole laundry list of them in another thread) when we had huge surges in ego overgrowth, the only that that is ascendant about all this garbage is the ego.

Because everyone ignored the primary esoteria and went right into the garbage not a whole lot of people are familar with all the many implications of Ascension and its close counter part ass-ended-ness.


Several years back I had a workshop called Consciousness Shift. Its a sort of interactive , game workshop where I ask a question and the audience gives the answer. The sort of thing where there are no wrong answers (or so I thought, in actuality this workshop was my wake up call that things with spirituality seekers was not exactly on the fast track to a brain trust city).

So the first question was, "What are we? What is the one single thing we share, our single common denominator"

And ALL answers were right out of the channels.

We are all love.

We are all beams of light.

We're all angels.

We're all ET's.

About a half hour passed with me watching my audience with morbid fascination and some pour brave soul timidly ventured, ...we're humans?

A half hour for this to occur to someone.

Our common denominator. The one thing that we may possibly have in common with the other and they don't know what it is .... 'they forgetting who we are part has obviously taken a tremendous leap forward"

Okay great (now i have an hour and half to show these people that their consciousness IS expanding ...with ego overgrowth and bloat and I failed.)

Next question, what is a human.

A human is love.

Humans are angels.

We're all star seeds.

We're all reincarnated faery unicorns.

I'm sorry I lost the workshop in a computer crash because it was easily played on line, and there's more sort of depthful reflection here (in certain instances) rather than just parroting one hears in the Estrogen Fests that pass as modern religion.

After the workshop a member of the audience , approached me and ask if I had formal hypnosis training. At the time I had not and he commented how spell binding and charismatic I was and that nearly all of them had been lulled into a mild state with my conversation. So I said, is it possible that its because they were already infiltrated, in a state of auto hypnosis well before i ever came along?

So we had a nice long discussion about that and he said, Yes.

After that I decided to fold it in and hole up someplace quiet, by myself, and wait for what feels to me like a giant consciousness yeast infection to take over humanity.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by SKAWF (here)
well, if no one minds

i'd like to say something regarding 'ascension'.

i was going to start a thread, but seeing as it..... and channeling are in the same bucket i'll post it here.

what i would like to know is......

how can anyone here, talk about ascension with any authority at all?

to hear people talk its like they believe that they will be wisked away in a spaceship or something,
then they will be implanted with enough knowledge to restore them to their 'former' glory.

like they dont have do do anything.
there isnt one person here who could say they have ascended. not one.
yet lots speak of it. some with absolute confidence.

i ask you..... where did you get the knowledge and confidence from?

i bet it was from a source outside of yourself.... or you read what someone else wrote.......
or you got it from a source who claim they channeled it.

how do you know that the being who was giving the information to the channeler (if at all) was/is what they say they are?

can anyone here say anything about the subject, with absolute certainty?.


dont get me worng, i'm not saying that ascension is a bull*hit topic.
i do believe that one can ascend,
or at least progress into a wider and more expansive understanding of things. i also believe that one can do things to increase the speed of progress (like NOT doing things that will drag one down)

but to hear some people talk.....

i wasnt against channeling. i wasnt into it either.
but i had no problem with it.
to each his/her own etc.

but over time the whole thing has descended into a level of ridiculousness (imo) like so many other meme's
its like being confident in... or 'just knowing' that you will win the lottery.

i have worked hard to change my thinking.
i have gone over my own life working on things that 'block' me.
i have examined my own thoughts and memories (some of them quite disturbing) just to get a better understanding of where i am...
and i'll tell you what...... its hard. it takes massive effort and focus
and it would be so much easier to do something else instead, but its that path i chose.
i stay on it, because i have progressed over the years (since 1994) and it would silly to give up after putting in so much effort.
besides..... from a truthful perspective...... you do get results.
my life is entirely different now, than when i first began to 'sort my head out'

but i'm nowhere near the top.
there will always be more to learn than i have learned.

imagine yourself stood on a spiral, facing the expanse...
even if you move forwards into a wider understanding of things....
the spiral also grows, so your position in relation to it, never changes,
no matter how much you learn. the 'struggle' never gets any easier.
(even if over time you are better equipped to deal with the things you face)

but to hear some people here talk about it like its guaranteed, like they dont have to do ANYTHING, like it will be done for them...
no effort or sacrifice needed. its Bo*llocks.

i can imagine people saying...... 'ahhhh its december 20th 2012, ascension tommorow......... ive already picked what i'm going to wear'

i'm going to end this post here.

steve

I remembered why I was here ... humanity is not what we think it is, nor is ascension. If one understands the nature of vibrational physics, understands that nothing is not electromagnetic vibration dictated by those physics, then one can understand what is meant by ascension. The raising of a vibration to a "higher" (ascend = raise) frequency - enough to pop an octave and go from perceiving and reacting to only the tonal, to understanding the tonal from perspective of the nagual. Highly spiritually learned people will understand this, as well as possibly some quantum physicists. It's a big subject - that requires the understanding of existence to fully grasp. I'm working on an article I hope to soon post at Avalon.

[REILLY]

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
AKT-TEWLY...

We're all reincarnated faery unicorns.

Sheesh, we reincarnated faery unicorns just can't catch a break.

[9eagle9]

Good god man, WHO is your farrier?!

[songsfortheotherkind]

I'm wondering, is the issue the same if the word 'ascension' is replaced by 'evolution'? Is there the same issue with the word 'evolution' in its essential meaning, which is to increase in complexity and ability?

As I have observed, there is a sliding scale of behaviour within the sentient 'I am' species of this planet, with various placements along the sliding scale within the two poles of 'adaptable' and 'unadaptable'. I am intentionally attempting to make the language as neutral as possible and searching for words that will express the gamut of the experiences without loading them with any kind of perspective other than what the words themselves suggest.

Adaptable Beings demonstrate a fluidity and ability to embrace increasing complexity than those more towards the unadaptable end of the scale demonstrate. The reasons for such unadaptability are, for the sake of the point I'm discussing, irrelevant: what is of interest is that periodically major upheavals in the societal consciousness occur and those tending towards the far end of the adaptable marker rise to the surface and set the new baseline for what comes after. As a recent example of this: 30 years ago computer competency was not a widespread skill in the workplace or daily life. When it became clear that computer literacy was becoming a requirement for the workplace, those who were most adaptable went and retrained (I'm not talking here about those who had an interest in such things, I'm talking about those who were first affected by the dramatic workplace changes); the rest followed with degrees of willingness dependent on their adaptability, until there was the large group that couldn't/wouldn't embrace the shifts and these found themselves facing either much lower paid jobs, unemployment, retirement or having to retrain in completely new areas of work.

Computers provided a catalyst for many evolutions- increases in complexity and ability- in an almost total spectrum way, not just information processing: look at the www behaves as a social evolution and consciousness tool. The criticisms aren't the point- the tool exists, just because some are uninspiring with it isn't the fault of the tool. Technology stands in its place neutrally, it's what is done with it that is a reflection of the intention, purpose and character of the user.

In every evolution, the necessity for a new language emerges concurrently because there are elements that need to be expressed that have no current adequate words. 30 years ago the word 'google' was unknown- now it is a verb, amongst other things, one of these being a way to suggest an individual take responsibility for their own situation: "why don't you google it?". We have lasers, tazers, ipads and touchscreens, we have email, transgendered, pan sexual and terabyte. These words came about because there was something that needed to be described, even if at the time the awareness of this was limited.

What I'm seeing now is that there is something emerging that is seeking a new language to embrace and describe it: something is seeking to be expressed and there's a clunking of language as this is being lived into. Perhaps what is currently lacking are open and genuine explorations of what is seeking to be expressed: what do you mean when you say *this* here? What is the intention and purpose of the communication? What words are missing from our vocabulary that are needed to adequately describe what we are seeing and experiencing? How can we embrace the multiple layers of experience that each individual is having rather than trying to negate them?

That's what I'm observing. It looks like evolution to me. Some describe this also as a frequency thing, an 'ascension' thing, a spiritual shift, a consciousness shift, and it's all those things as well to my perspective. What is more interesting to me than getting antsy about the words is getting to the heart of what individuals are expressing when they say those things, getting to the core of what platform is being used: is what is being expressed another way of maintaining the old paradigm, just in a fluffier worded form? Is it psychological despotism disguised as spiritual wisdom? Is it heteronomy disguised as evolution? That's more interesting to me personally: it doesn't matter how attractive the words are, if they've been infused with a deadly neurotoxin then they're not worth wasting time on.

[mountain_jim]

If one understands the nature of vibrational physics, understands that nothing is not electromagnetic vibration dictated by those physics, then one can understand what is meant by ascension.

This comes close to describing the way I perceive reality, and have my whole life. I perceive all matter as Light vibrating at a certain frequency, including my physical vehicle. The rate of vibration is increasing. My personal frequency increase is accelerating. This is not theory, it is direct experience, at least for me.

I once proved to myself I could 'see' with an antenna array of nerves in my hands, by being able to identify the colors of otherwise identical writing pens by the rate of vibrations 'felt' when waving my hands about 4-5 inches above the object to be perceived.

For me ascending is not a bad term, it is a logical (to me) result of increasing frequency vibration rate out of the range of the vibration rates of the 3D matter reality currently shared here. Whether that can happen in an existing vehicle for one such as myself remains to be seen.

[Carmen]

Hi Songs,

Nice to see you out of the pub. Your description of Sui generis when you first arrived here, was a tremendous inspiration and a worthy description of my ideal of the exploration of the spectrum of consciousness. Don't understand many of the terms you use or your thinking processes at times, but really enjoy your independence of mind and your tolerance of others Sui generis. I'm only occasionally 'wordy' and seems to mainly be silent nowadays. The dramas and the critisizisms cause me to withdraw my feelers like a snail when touchedLOL!! My old self would wade in with guns blazing, but no more. Nice to just watch.

As we grow and expand, our own beingness becomes a channell for something greater than our personality self could ever invisage. The critisizisms of channelled material is counter productive. It's the message that counts! If the frog at the bottom of my pond spoke words that inspired me, I would listen! It's what a message means individually that counts. My inner Self is the touchstone of truth, nothing else.

[songsfortheotherkind]

Posted by Carmen (here)
Hi Songs,

Nice to see you out of the pub. Your description of Sui generis when you first arrived here, was a tremendous inspiration and a worthy description of my ideal of the exploration of the spectrum of consciousness. Don't understand many of the terms you use or your thinking processes at times, but really enjoy your independence of mind and your tolerance of others Sui generis.

Hey Carmen. I do come out of the Pub occasionally to poke around, and this-

I'm only occasionally 'wordy' and seems to mainly be silent nowadays. The dramas and the critisizisms cause me to withdraw my feelers like a snail when touchedLOL!!

generally sees me heading straight back there within short order. There is definitely an enormous difference between looking at the differences with a sense of eager curiousity and co-creation, and looking at the differences with a sense of 'someone is not agreeing with my world view!! This must be rectified immediately, with much squashing of alternative viewpoints!'. I find that my immersion in deeply exploring the frequency of the sui generis and do no harm really does take up most of my time.

As for wordy, well, what can I say, I tend towards the epic posts, this is true. However, they're always a great excuse for a cup of tea and a pile of snacks. :D

The critisizisms of channelled material is counter productive. It's the message that counts! If the frog at the bottom of my pond spoke words that inspired me, I would listen! It's what a message means individually that counts. My inner Self is the touchstone of truth, nothing else.

Hurrah for inspirational talking frogs! That's what the world needs more of, I was wondering what was missing. :D

I agree about the tedium of the constant criticism about channeled material- or anything out of the box at all, really- instead of looking at the message itself: there are good things to be found in much that is, in the greater picture, little more than noise: millions follow the bible, for instance, and still more vote despite every indication that it is an utterly useless thing to do and only encourages the controllers. I personally feel it's more useful to explore and see if there's anything worth keeping in any signal rather than patting one's Self on the back at how correct one is and how everyone else is wrong.

Of course, I can say this because I know for a fact I'm right about everything...


heh heh heh heh...... *sneaks out the side door*

[Carmen]

Hmm, I'm not critisizing wordiness! In fact, I'm rather envious when I read long scripts that go into great detail. I think I'm just too lazy to expend all that time and energy! And at times my intellect does trapeze like back flips trying to understand some posts but I often miss the connection and land flat on my face!

I do love the challenge at times of using words of wisdom or advice in a way that does not cause others egos to rear up in self defence. It's the gentle art of touching spirit to spirit and learning happens in that space. I guess it's honouring the Sui generis of others. People can relax when they know the other cares. That's when oneness becomes the experience, not just an idea.

Just been reading the Toltec book 'The Voice of Knowledge'. It talks about 'our story', being unique and different to every one else's story (Ahh, Sui generis again). Also, we think we 'know' other people, but we have just made up a secondary story about them!! It's all lies and conditioning we have accepted about ourselves and others. To let them be and love them anyway gives them self acceptance and room to be any way they wish.

[9eagle9]

So its more of a demonstrable event , something is occurring on an energetic, vibrational and like you indicated even a physics level, and it's not cloying messages from outer space?

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by SKAWF (here)
well, if no one minds

i'd like to say something regarding 'ascension'.

i was going to start a thread, but seeing as it..... and channeling are in the same bucket i'll post it here.

what i would like to know is......

how can anyone here, talk about ascension with any authority at all?

to hear people talk its like they believe that they will be wisked away in a spaceship or something,
then they will be implanted with enough knowledge to restore them to their 'former' glory.

like they dont have do do anything.
there isnt one person here who could say they have ascended. not one.
yet lots speak of it. some with absolute confidence.

i ask you..... where did you get the knowledge and confidence from?

i bet it was from a source outside of yourself.... or you read what someone else wrote.......
or you got it from a source who claim they channeled it.

how do you know that the being who was giving the information to the channeler (if at all) was/is what they say they are?

can anyone here say anything about the subject, with absolute certainty?.


dont get me worng, i'm not saying that ascension is a bull*hit topic.
i do believe that one can ascend,
or at least progress into a wider and more expansive understanding of things. i also believe that one can do things to increase the speed of progress (like NOT doing things that will drag one down)

but to hear some people talk.....

i wasnt against channeling. i wasnt into it either.
but i had no problem with it.
to each his/her own etc.

but over time the whole thing has descended into a level of ridiculousness (imo) like so many other meme's
its like being confident in... or 'just knowing' that you will win the lottery.

i have worked hard to change my thinking.
i have gone over my own life working on things that 'block' me.
i have examined my own thoughts and memories (some of them quite disturbing) just to get a better understanding of where i am...
and i'll tell you what...... its hard. it takes massive effort and focus
and it would be so much easier to do something else instead, but its that path i chose.
i stay on it, because i have progressed over the years (since 1994) and it would silly to give up after putting in so much effort.
besides..... from a truthful perspective...... you do get results.
my life is entirely different now, than when i first began to 'sort my head out'

but i'm nowhere near the top.
there will always be more to learn than i have learned.

imagine yourself stood on a spiral, facing the expanse...
even if you move forwards into a wider understanding of things....
the spiral also grows, so your position in relation to it, never changes,
no matter how much you learn. the 'struggle' never gets any easier.
(even if over time you are better equipped to deal with the things you face)

but to hear some people here talk about it like its guaranteed, like they dont have to do ANYTHING, like it will be done for them...
no effort or sacrifice needed. its Bo*llocks.

i can imagine people saying...... 'ahhhh its december 20th 2012, ascension tommorow......... ive already picked what i'm going to wear'

i'm going to end this post here.

steve

I remembered why I was here ... humanity is not what we think it is, nor is ascension. If one understands the nature of vibrational physics, understands that nothing is not electromagnetic vibration dictated by those physics, then one can understand what is meant by ascension. The raising of a vibration to a "higher" (ascend = raise) frequency - enough to pop an octave and go from perceiving and reacting to only the tonal, to understanding the tonal from perspective of the nagual. Highly spiritually learned people will understand this, as well as possibly some quantum physicists. It's a big subject - that requires the understanding of existence to fully grasp. I'm working on an article I hope to soon post at Avalon.

[wobbegong]

Posted by Anchor (here)
The reason they cant is that YOU have your freewill - you have it, its yours.

Anchor thanks for this thread mate, it struck a chord that reminded me of this excellent song by Creedence Clearwater Revival:
It's just a thought
But I wondered if you knew
That the song out there is you.
They can't take it from you
If you don't give it away;
Don't give it away…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZzDqCyU98E

...just wanted to share it...

[Robert J. Niewiadomski]

9eagle9, why have you used term "cloying messages" in your post? Why are you appearing so materialistic/naturalistic to me? Why are you ridiculing and discarding spiritual aspect of human existence so easily? It appears to me that you treat it as something of a unnecessary burden rather than central to our existence... Well ok, it is central to me here and now...

What "being a human" means to You?

What is wrong with me assuming all of the above about You ?

[9eagle9]

Because those messages are judgmental in nature (no one notices because they sound nice) and basically it a subtle undermining of one's being, one's essential power...in a nice sounding way of course. That is in fact a materialistic means of conveying a message "You're all helpless sheep but don't worry something greater than yourself will save you."


If people wanted to be saved....they'd have stuck it out with Christianity. You do realize these messages are just distorted versions of Christian stories? No one changed anything they just ascended up into the lite version of dogma and patriarchy.

I don't issue those messages, so I'm sorry if they are materialistic in orientation, so of course a close examination of something that is material in nature, may sound rather materialistic but....I didn't write the material. I cannot comment in a spiritual way because its not spiritual in nature. And spirit is not always 'nice', its authentic. So one must comment on the material in a material way. Thus is the nature of duality.

Human Being.

Human appears to be a physical event that none of us can really avoid.

Being is something altogether different.

Being a human entails being a human and all that that implies, in scope and potential, it doesn't mean being a unicorn. Or an alien, or angel or a reincarnated flying red herring or some pitiful idiot that requires an alien in a flightsuit to come down and help them find their arses with both hands. Those things are material in nature.

It is rather self explanatory and easily seen.... if one is not distracted by ultra dimensional beings crouched behind Jupiter.

Posted by Robert J. Niewiadomski (here)
9eagle9, why have you used term "cloying messages" in your post? Why are you appearing so materialistic/naturalistic to me? Why are you ridiculing and discarding spiritual aspect of human existence so easily? It appears to me that you treat it as something of a unnecessary burden rather than central to our existence... Well ok, it is central to me here and now...

What "being a human" means to You?

What is wrong with me assuming all of the above about You ?

[Anchor]

Well, a lot happened since my last post.

First I am sorry that seigarchon reacted the way he did on this forum, and apparently to this thread. Seigarchon, if you are reading this, my reference to channel wars and archon had nothing to do with you, or about you or referenced you in any way at all. I am very sorry that you felt attacked. Feeling like one is under attack is extremely unpleasant. I hope everthing works out for you. I know that attempts were made to help you that were apparently ignored. I don't know why. Please slow down and think things through. Sometimes those outstretched hands are offers of help, not threats to slap.

Posted by SKAWF (here)
i was going to start a thread, but seeing as it..... and channeling are in the same bucket i'll post it here.

My OP was nothing to do with ascension, and I was not really going to address that further, but, then I did!

Posted by SKAWF (here)
what i would like to know is......

how can anyone here, talk about ascension with any authority at all?

Later in this thread 9eagle9 has said soemthings that may explain a lot of it (her post on the workshops).

No-one can speak with "authority" - the reader gives it that.

What some do is effect a tone of conviction - or have reputation for otherwise regularly hitting the mark, and thus thier words may be treated differently. Everyone has figured out their current set of favorites. Speakers of that category have to be really careful, because even if they did not intend it, the consequences of their writing or utterance are magnified - the responsibilities are increased in proportion.

This is where the subject of this thread comes in: free will.

People have the rights and can choose to speak and all the baggage that this entails.

People have the freedom to read, (or not), and react (or not) etc.

Free will untaps our power, but it also provides a vector for the tricksters who may be able to play on people using their free will in an unwise and unguarded fashion.

Communication between that which we are (our-self), and that which we are not (those of our other-selves) - is ultimately an exchange of energy.

I feel this important to point out.

Posted by SKAWF (here)
to hear people talk its like they believe that they will be wisked away in a spaceship or something,
then they will be implanted with enough knowledge to restore them to their 'former' glory.

like they dont have do do anything.
there isnt one person here who could say they have ascended. not one.
yet lots speak of it. some with absolute confidence.

i ask you..... where did you get the knowledge and confidence from?

If its me, then it is because I speak from experience. I can state it, but I have no right to expect you to believe me.

However, it changes nothing.

You still have to decide for yourself if I am FOS or have a point worth considering.

Either-way, I am not supposed to care (even if I do a bit, and that is my problem to deal with - lol)

Posted by SKAWF (here)
i bet it was from a source outside of yourself.... or you read what someone else wrote.......
or you got it from a source who claim they channeled it.

Yes, in my case it was a mixture, initially from the outside, but later some of it comes from the inside - or in communion with what has been fashionably termed "my higher self".

Posted by SKAWF (here)
how do you know that the being who was giving the information to the channeler (if at all) was/is what they say they are?

This is not my area of expertise. I know the theory, it involves discipline, care, mindfulness, self-authority, confidence in ones power, ruthless interrogation and cross-checking. One is also advised to do such things in an environment of protection.

Posted by SKAWF (here)
but over time the whole thing has descended into a level of ridiculousness (imo) like so many other meme's
its like being confident in... or 'just knowing' that you will win the lottery.

Ego, and the love of money causes these kinds of problems. The elite love it, as it works to thier agenda.

Posted by SKAWF (here)
i have worked hard to change my thinking.
i have gone over my own life working on things that 'block' me.
i have examined my own thoughts and memories (some of them quite disturbing) just to get a better understanding of where i am...
and i'll tell you what...... its hard. it takes massive effort and focus
and it would be so much easier to do something else instead, but its that path i chose.
i stay on it, because i have progressed over the years (since 1994) and it would silly to give up after putting in so much effort.
besides..... from a truthful perspective...... you do get results.
my life is entirely different now, than when i first began to 'sort my head out'

Thankyou for this. This is authentic. This is not parroting that which has been said by others.

May I ask you, what guided you on this path?

Posted by SKAWF (here)
there will always be more to learn than i have learned.

As we learn, we teach. As we teach we learn.

Such is the way of energy exchanges. Always a two way street.

Posted by SKAWF (here)
but to hear some people here talk about it like its guaranteed, like they dont have to do ANYTHING, like it will be done for them...

This is my biggest beef with a lot of the messages - not all of them - I got a few posts under my belt on this one.

Posted by SKAWF (here)
no effort or sacrifice needed. its Bo*llocks.

I concur.

Posted by StarDust (here)
I would like to make the distinction between "channeling" and what group A in your hypothetical is referring to as "telepathic" communication.

Thank you for doing this. I agree with you.

However, the point I was making is that no matter how a person receives the information, he then relays it to others who then have it second hand. That is why I think the exact method is a moot point really - you still end up with the requirement to discern.

That was where the free-will angle to this thread came in.

To jaded consumers of much "relayed" information, using the fact of telepathic communication rather than say a mediumistic kind process just looks like an attempt to claim some extra authority or quality credentials. We all know that doesnt work - even if it is true. We are still left with "Do I find this information acceptable?" or, and I hate to say it, "do I trust this information"

My freewill, if being exercised in a wise manner allows me to do that properly. However if I am careless and elect to blindly trust, then I am open to being misled..... again!

There is no getting away from the fact that Telepath A and Channeler B are both different people to the information consumers - and the discriminiation requirement/recommendation is EXACTLY the same for both. To be honest both claim superiority and its up to the reader to evaluate that on their own terms.

Posted by StarDust (here)
I just wanted to make this distinction since it is fairly evident who the main players are with regard to your hypothetical situation. The differences in communication types are night and day. To confuse the two or dismiss them as the same is simply not correct.

I feel my point is made. I don't want to get into the specifics of that here.

Posted by StarDust (here)
Although I think that your exercise is interesting , I think that you have used the term proxy too broadly. Based on the broad application let's apply it to our current understanding of the MSM. - If reporting a story by "proxy" were, in fact, channeling, then every news broadcast and every form of print media that we have here on 3rd Density earth based on a "story" that wasn't experienced by the reporter would be considered channeling. I think most can agree that the MSM does not channel anything (aside from what their bosses tell them to report) while reporting a story that wasn't experienced first hand; which in essence is telling a point of view by proxy.

I don't trust MSM reporters or news feeds any more than I trust Group A or Group B channelers.

Posted by StarDust (here)
Another distinction I make between what group A and group B have been reporting is the nature of the message. Group A has been reporting what I would consider news. It is "fact based" action that tells a story relative to a larger picture. Sure, it is a print type story with no pictures or video, but it is a story none the less.

Does the information conduit of this "fact based" information adhere to any intergalactic news reporting standards? Are there any oversight committees?
Am I stretching this analogy too far

TBH, "fact based" is a bit rich. I mean that whole thread was fueled by the notion that you basically have to trust the reporter, or develop the skills to go to the same information source - or do the inner testing. This is a PR issue for Group A. A good few Avalonian's are self-inoculated against disinformation have certain well rehearsed reactions. You saw some of them. It the message is important, it will overcome any resistance. I am proud to see that resistance frankly, it speaks well of Avalon - it seems healthy to me.

Posted by StarDust (here)
Group B, on the other hand,... but the reporting "styles" are unmistakable.

On this we may have a lot of common ground in our views.

Posted by StarDust (here)
Furthermore, the issue I have with information provided by group B is that it tries to trick the inept into being passive by choice. It tries to place one in a bliss like state using key words that are consistent with many new age beliefs. This is a trick. It doesn't provide any information on how to be proactive in one's life. Some of the messages even speak about "our true leaders" coming forth and they have subtle messages about being ruled over.

No arguments from me there. I fully concur.

Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
Avalon is a place for learning, isn't it?

Yes, a place to learn and teach, and a place to teach and learn.

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
he commented how spell binding and charismatic I was

I bet he says that to all the girls.... Um.... so did it work for him

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
I'm working on an article I hope to soon post at Avalon.

I for one look forward to that.

Posted by songsfortheotherkind (here)
I'm wondering, is the issue the same if the word 'ascension' is replaced by 'evolution'?

I think you are on to something useful there.

I think the more ways we have of providing perspective, the more ways we can help get people better able to cope with what appears to me to be an oncoming train of revelation - that is going to hit some people very hard indeed.

We need lots of different ways and means to help rapidly impart knowledge to those that seek it. The more rapid the changes, the more important this is, so we can be of the best and highest service.

[DeDukshyn]

Other (legitimate) "beings" do have a small part to play (I know the reason they are here (ya right! ;-) - they are not here to rescue us from anything), so, I have to go with my teachings that say to not trust your external senses over your internal ones. Some people may take a little while to calibrate their internal one Many are getting carried away on strange currents in the meantime - oh well, its all part of learning and life. Trusting oneself is the ultimate key, the "legitimate" beings/channelings will only ever encourage this. And as long as that is the message - even if if fake - it still gets the job done.

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
So its more of a demonstrable event , something is occurring on an energetic, vibrational and like you indicated even a physics level, and it's not cloying messages from outer space?

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by SKAWF (here)
well, if no one minds

i'd like to say something regarding 'ascension'.

i was going to start a thread, but seeing as it..... and channeling are in the same bucket i'll post it here.
.......

I remembered why I was here ... humanity is not what we think it is, nor is ascension. If one understands the nature of vibrational physics, understands that nothing is not electromagnetic vibration dictated by those physics, then one can understand what is meant by ascension. The raising of a vibration to a "higher" (ascend = raise) frequency - enough to pop an octave and go from perceiving and reacting to only the tonal, to understanding the tonal from perspective of the nagual. Highly spiritually learned people will understand this, as well as possibly some quantum physicists. It's a big subject - that requires the understanding of existence to fully grasp. I'm working on an article I hope to soon post at Avalon.

[9eagle9]

It's not really a revelation though the messages themselves have turned into an external crutch.

Letting someone know that they should wait to have a vibrational event is quite different than showing them how to have one now.

Or that someone else will be responsible for their vibrational event.

A mass deluge of information keeping the mind tied up in the future is a pretty good way not to turned inwardly to have a vibrational event period.

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
Other (legitimate) "beings" do have a small part to play (I know the reason they are here (ya right! ;-) - they are not here to rescue us from anything), so, I have to go with my teachings that say to not trust your external senses over your internal ones. Some people may take a little while to calibrate their internal one Many are getting carried away on strange currents in the meantime - oh well, its all part of learning and life. Trusting oneself is the ultimate key, the "legitimate" beings/channelings will only ever encourage this. And as long as that is the message - even if if fake - it still gets the job done.

Posted by 9eagle9 (here)
So its more of a demonstrable event , something is occurring on an energetic, vibrational and like you indicated even a physics level, and it's not cloying messages from outer space?

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)

Posted by SKAWF (here)
well, if no one minds

i'd like to say something regarding 'ascension'.

i was going to start a thread, but seeing as it..... and channeling are in the same bucket i'll post it here.
.......

I remembered why I was here ... humanity is not what we think it is, nor is ascension. If one understands the nature of vibrational physics, understands that nothing is not electromagnetic vibration dictated by those physics, then one can understand what is meant by ascension. The raising of a vibration to a "higher" (ascend = raise) frequency - enough to pop an octave and go from perceiving and reacting to only the tonal, to understanding the tonal from perspective of the nagual. Highly spiritually learned people will understand this, as well as possibly some quantum physicists. It's a big subject - that requires the understanding of existence to fully grasp. I'm working on an article I hope to soon post at Avalon.

[StarDust]

Posted by Anchor (here)

Posted by StarDust (here)
I would like to make the distinction between "channeling" and what group A in your hypothetical is referring to as "telepathic" communication.

Thank you for doing this. I agree with you.

However, the point I was making is that no matter how a person receives the information, he then relays it to others who then have it second hand. That is why I think the exact method is a moot point really - you still end up with the requirement to discern.

I agree with this process. As I've stated elsewhere, discernment is ultimately the right and responsibility of the seeker.

That was where the free-will angle to this thread came in.

To jaded consumers of much "relayed" information, using the fact of telepathic communication rather than say a mediumistic kind process just looks like an attempt to claim some extra authority or quality credentials. We all know that doesnt work - even if it is true. We are still left with "Do I find this information acceptable?" or, and I hate to say it, "do I trust this information"

My freewill, if being exercised in a wise manner allows me to do that properly. However if I am careless and elect to blindly trust, then I am open to being misled..... again!

There is no getting away from the fact that Telepath A and Channeler B are both different people to the information consumers - and the discriminiation requirement/recommendation is EXACTLY the same for both. To be honest both claim superiority and its up to the reader to evaluate that on their own terms.

I agree with your thoughts on this as well; however, this is where I walk a different path with regard to discernment. At this point, I process all information internally through a combination of Intuitive Channeling (not the same as channeling discussed here), Telepathy, and Knowing based on past "lives"/expeiences. Thus, I do not personally have a "need" for external proof as so many others clearly do. Consequently, any 'news' delivered by telepathic or channeled means merely fill in background information to provide the bigger picture. It is consequential to nothing on my path but makes for an interesting background story.

Posted by StarDust (here)
I just wanted to make this distinction since it is fairly evident who the main players are with regard to your hypothetical situation. The differences in communication types are night and day. To confuse the two or dismiss them as the same is simply not correct.

I feel my point is made. I don't want to get into the specifics of that here.

Fair enough.

Posted by StarDust (here)
Although I think that your exercise is interesting , I think that you have used the term proxy too broadly. Based on the broad application let's apply it to our current understanding of the MSM. - If reporting a story by "proxy" were, in fact, channeling, then every news broadcast and every form of print media that we have here on 3rd Density earth based on a "story" that wasn't experienced by the reporter would be considered channeling. I think most can agree that the MSM does not channel anything (aside from what their bosses tell them to report) while reporting a story that wasn't experienced first hand; which in essence is telling a point of view by proxy.

I don't trust MSM reporters or news feeds any more than I trust Group A or Group B channelers.

This is understandable and is the view held by many. However, this is where the process of extracting truth from fiction from within plays an important role. I think most will agree that even the most ardent lies have scraps of truth thrown in to give the information being presented a truthful appearance. Being able to find the nuggets of truth is essential in this Density since Terrans are masters of limitation by virtue of deception.

Posted by StarDust (here)
Another distinction I make between what group A and group B have been reporting is the nature of the message. Group A has been reporting what I would consider news. It is "fact based" action that tells a story relative to a larger picture. Sure, it is a print type story with no pictures or video, but it is a story none the less.

Does the information conduit of this "fact based" information adhere to any intergalactic news reporting standards? Are there any oversight committees?
Am I stretching this analogy too far

I don't think that 'editorial boards' exist within the higher densities and for good reason. All 'facts' are easily verifiable by ALL within a complex network of collective consciousness. There is no deceit in that sense, since information at this level is KNOWN to all. Please keep in mind that collective consciousness is more common within the higher Densities than the illusion of separation - a primary facet of 3rd Density. This is a very basic concept to anyone who is a student of The Law of ONE.

TBH, "fact based" is a bit rich. I mean that whole thread was fueled by the notion that you basically have to trust the reporter, or develop the skills to go to the same information source - or do the inner testing. This is a PR issue for Group A. A good few Avalonian's are self-inoculated against disinformation have certain well rehearsed reactions. You saw some of them. It the message is important, it will overcome any resistance. I am proud to see that resistance frankly, it speaks well of Avalon - it seems healthy to me.

I agree with your assessment that it is "a bit rich", which is why I placed "fact based" in quotes. It will be a big stretch for anyone who seeks confirmation externally of self; but is a valid statement to anyone who seeks that confirmation internally by scanning the vibratory frequency of the message being delivered. Those frequencies are very hard to mask from my perspective.

Posted by StarDust (here)
Group B, on the other hand,... but the reporting "styles" are unmistakable.

On this we may have a lot of common ground in our views.

When reading anything, I scan for intent. That is the first clue I look for with regard to whether or not information is genuine.

Posted by StarDust (here)
Furthermore, the issue I have with information provided by group B is that it tries to trick the inept into being passive by choice. It tries to place one in a bliss like state using key words that are consistent with many new age beliefs. This is a trick. It doesn't provide any information on how to be proactive in one's life. Some of the messages even speak about "our true leaders" coming forth and they have subtle messages about being ruled over.

No arguments from me there. I fully concur.

Thank you for this fascinating discussion. I thoroughly enjoy analyzing the mechanics of thought and conciousness.

[StarDust]

Posted by DeDukshyn (here)
Other (legitimate) "beings" do have a small part to play (I know the reason they are here (ya right! ;-) - they are not here to rescue us from anything),

This is a very wise perspective to take. Everyone incarnated here for a reason by choice. So in that sense, the only one who would be 'rescued' would be one from one's self. It is an interesting paradox indeed!

so, I have to go with my teachings that say to not trust your external senses over your internal ones.

This is a conclusion that ALL will eventually achieve.

Some people may take a little while to calibrate their internal one

Yes, although the process seems to be speeding up which is comforting relative to the transitional process that is occurring all around us.

Many are getting carried away on strange currents in the meantime - oh well, its all part of learning and life.

That is quite apparent within this outpost of thought.

Trusting oneself is the ultimate key, the "legitimate" beings/channelings will only ever encourage this.

I agree with your assessment.

And as long as that is the message - even if if fake - it still gets the job done.

Moving the ball forward is always the goal. After all, there are infinite paths, but only one direction.