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Thread: So how much transformation is actually wanted, really?

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    Default So how much transformation is actually wanted, really?

    I have been on this forum for awhile now, moving around the different areas and peeking in various windows. I am now moved to bring to the table a perspective that I am opening for discussion.

    Those who know me know that I speak about a concept called Sui Generis: it's a term that I learned from my deep law studies and it basically means that one is unique, without peer, one's own jurisdiction and authority. In the terms of the law, it raises an individual above every act, statute and external authority on the planet, but that aspect requires some discussion and isn't the focus of my current post. It's a really important concept.

    What I am interested in discussing is the peculiar nature of most of the threads that are posted on this forum, with perhaps the exception of the alternative health thread. To this end, I'd like to introduce a concept: Heteronomy.

    Here's a dictionary defnition:

    Het`er`on´o`my
    n. 1. Subordination or subjection to the law of another; political subjection of a community or state; - opposed to autonomy.

    (note: there's a second definition here which defines the word according to Kant, which is a heteronomous definition in itself, so I've ignored it)

    Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, published 1913 by C. & G. Merriam Co.

    heteronomy
    1. the state or condition of being ruled, governed, or under the sway of another, as in a military occupation.
    2. the state or condition of being under the influence or domination, in a moral, spiritual, or similar sense, of another person, entity, force, etc. Cf. autonomy. — heteronomous, adj.
    See also: Government
    the condition of being under the moral control of something or someone external; inability to be self-willing. — heteronymous, adj.
    See also: Will
    the condition of being under the rule or domination of another.
    See also: Politics

    -Ologies & -Isms. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved.

    Source: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/heteronomy

    According to this definition, heteronomy is the opposite of autonomy- so here's a look at what autonomy means:

    au·ton·o·my Pronunciation (ô-tn-m)
    n. pl. au·ton·o·mies
    1. The condition or quality of being autonomous; independence.
    2.
    a. Self-government or the right of self-government; self-determination.
    b. Self-government with respect to local or internal affairs: granted autonomy to a national minority.
    3. A self-governing state, community, or group.
    [Greek autonomi, from autonomos, self-ruling; see autonomous.]

    autonomy [ɔːˈtɒnəmɪ]
    n pl -mies
    1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) the right or state of self-government, esp when limited
    2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a state, community, or individual possessing autonomy
    3. freedom to determine one's own actions, behaviour, etc.
    4. (Philosophy) Philosophy
    a. the doctrine that the individual human will is or ought to be governed only by its own principles and laws See also categorical imperative
    b. the state in which one's actions are autonomous
    [from Greek autonomia freedom to live by one's own laws; see autonomous]
    autonomist n

    Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

    autonomy - From Greek autos, "self," and nomos, "law," i.e. a person or unit that makes its own laws.

    Farlex Trivia Dictionary. © 2012 Farlex, Inc. All rights reserved.

    au·ton·o·mous Pronunciation (ô-tn-ms)
    adj.
    1. Not controlled by others or by outside forces; independent: an autonomous judiciary; an autonomous division of a corporate conglomerate.
    2. Independent in mind or judgment; self-directed.

    Sui generis encompasses all of the relevant concepts within these definitions, as well as an abundance more, which I'm not going to go into now or else this post will move beyond 'possibly epic' and into 'War and Peace, redux'. What is of interest is the contrast between heteronomy- authority that comes from *external* to the Self- and autonomy, the authority, direction and law that comes from within.

    Much of the debate- and occasionally, discussion- that goes on in this forum revolves around the idea of discarding the current paradigm by replacing it with a different paradigm, as suggested by better authorities and Purveyors of Reality, so that the *new* paradigm will have a more solid footing. Better Politicians. A Shinier Economy. Nicer Religions.

    It seems to me that almost all the posts made in this forum fall into the category of encouraging nothing more than a different form of heteronomy: here is an authority! no, HERE is the authority, with impressive credentials and a pointy stick to point at the points with! NO, you're all wrong, the TRUE authority is this guy over here - and then the noise ensues, which is nothing more than the different brands of heteronomy arm wrestling with themselves while the mind virus laughs hugely in the back ground at the whole debacle, knowing that the individuals concerned are all still firmly stuck in the tarpits.

    Heteronomy will never, ever be user friendly, because the user isn't engaged in the process of their own life: they're engaged in the process of trading their autonomy for whatever bright beads and trinkets they're willing to settle for. Sometimes these beads and trinkets are elaborate psychological and intellectual constructs that can appear so excellently presented and persuasively presented as to surely be spiritual wisdom of the highest order because it resonates, it creates an internal vibration that feels right.

    There's only one problem: if one has been profoundly, down to the level of the genes, immersed in the deeply layered indoctrination to the heteronomy, then how can one trust one's responses if there's nothing to contrast with? There is very little autonomy discussed in this forum in a way that indicates that the writers or commenters themselves practice deep level autonomy or are comfortable with the infinitely singular expressions of such autonomy: what I observer instead are claims to autonomy that then degenerate into ideological battles, which amount to nothing more than an attempt to overlay one individual's autonomy with another's authority- which, by definition, is heteronomy. And is thus the foundation of all the current things about the paradigm that many say they are against.

    Is it a case that autonomy is only ok as long as others agree with the version favored by any particular individual? Which is heteronomous in intent. When any individual advocates the election of *this* individual rather than *that* one, they are advocating heteronomy. The same goes with religious and spiritual perspectives- when there are those that do not feel the same way, or have a different perspective, the superior and condescending tones of the heteronomy emerges, or the 'gentle correction' or the not so gentle admonition; however it is couched, the heteronomy, the constant tracking back to submission to some kind of external authority, is the guiding force.

    I am fully aware of the endless earnest and persuasive arguments of the heteronomy, particularly those that insist Beings cannot be trusted to be their own authority: these indoctrinations begin before birth and continue to the moment of death, this constant bespelling of who and what we 'really' are, the 'sin' and 'untrustworthy' nature that Beings on this planet are subject to and thus in need of a benevolent saviour of *some* kind or another, some grand external authority to tell the masses what is the correct thing to think, to do, to not do...

    I'm aware of all of these arguments and I have never, ever found a single one that was not pimping, either overtly or covertly, the agenda of the heteronomy. Which, as the recent history of the majority species currently on this planet attests, creates nothing but closed systems that eventually collapse on themselves and simply arise again to recreate themselves in another, corruptive and polluted form. The desperate rhetoric of this time, this time ti will work, we'll have the *right* king, the *right* president, the *right* religion, the *better* economy, blah blah blah- and each time the answer comes in the negative because ultimately an externally governed group cannot spiritually evolve in their own singularity.

    This may seem like obvious stuff, yet in relation to this forum it actually isn't- the general tone of the posts are heteronomy in one form or another, the general tone of the replies are the same: where is the cutting edge evolution that has the actual power to truly bring the controllers and their agendas to their knees?

    Apparently, it's buried beneath more rhetoric and heteronomy.

    Autonomy as a concept is one that has infinite depth, flavour, expression and intention to explore and consider. It is also a concept and practice that cannot be embraced while the other hand is firmly stuck to the teat of heteronomy. Autonomy has nothing whatsoever to do with homogeny of thought, nothing to do with 'agreement', nothing to do with compromise or any of the other things that the heteronomy has bleated is necessary for groups to get along together: truly autonomous, sui generis Beings are as interested in engaging with those concepts as they are in removing their left foot with a fork, for reasons that I'm not going to go into right now. Suffice to say, the practice of 'autonomy' is one where a constant interested eye is kept on any indicators of lurking heteronomy with a view to prompt removal.

    So how interested are individuals in the prompt removal of the heteronomy that emerges here in teh forum? Are there any that truly believe modified heteronomy is the answer? The benevolent hand of those that consider themselves truly able to rule in a fair and considerate fashion? (for a price, of course). Is anyone who is truly interested in transformation rather than recycling going to suggest to me that behaving like an insane Being (doing the same thing again and again while expecting a different result) is the best tool of the evolution there is?

    I'm interested in what actually works, what is actually going to work in terms of true evolution of Being. Which means some sacred cows of belief, thought, psychology, 'wisdom' and other bastions of the paradigm are going to have to be left on the roadside no matter how much the programming within screams not to. That's the nature of programming and it's been done very very well- protect and serve the virus at all costs. Viruses and parasites do that- they alter the behaviour of the hosts to serve the interests of the parasite rather than the best interests of the host.

    http://tobiastenney.com/2010/06/toxoplasma/ You *really* think you're in control of your Self? You really think there's no virus? Perhaps try this experiment: see what happens internally when you embrace and practice the idea of autonomy for all Beings and watch what triggers inside of you.

    How would this practice manifest in the forum? For a start the criticism of channeling would cease- the criticism of *any* perspective would cease, because the pervading platform of connection would be with the respect for the autonomy of all individuals, not just those that agree with the particular individual. There would be a sense of co-creation and exchange rather than going into any thread with the intention of 'correcting' any 'wrong' thinking, or to go in and call another poster, using various benign- and not so benign-words, a prime idiot for believing/thinking/saying/doing that. All such self righteous actions would cease, or be something that other individuals would question.

    The superior tones of self importance regarding *any* belief or perspective would cease, as would the self congratulatory enclaves when a poster dares to express something that the rest find ridiculous. There would be a genuine focus on exploring the skills of communication rather than debate; there would be a genuine interest in and exploration of the differences between the practical expressions and skills of a group that is consciously cultivating autonomy of all Beings. There would be an interest in expressing from "I" rather than globalising, which is an assumption that as it is for the individual expressing the opinion, it must also be so for everyone else. Autonomy says otherwise.

    This is what interests me. I've always been interested in connecting with individuals who genuinely want to explore the deep level expression of sui generis autonomy rather than engaging in heteronomous onanism. This is still my interest and intention. I am underwhelmed by the current possibility of true evolution on a planetary scale if the tone of this forum- in which the focus itself is in part supposedly towards doing things on this planet in a more cohesive and intelligent way- is any indicator. Fortunately for me, I have never been interested in mass conversion or dependent on the idea that the future of the planet relies on *everyone* Getting A Clue. Still, the level of uninspiration is rather a bummer.

    So rather than being bummed I thought I'd send out a flare and see what it lit up. I am looking for individuals that want to approach all things from the perspective of a sui generis, autonomous Being, comfortable with the infinite possibility and expressions that arise from these, and who can tell the difference between acceptance of autonomy and having to participate in things Unfun.

    To me, this is where my personal evolution is heading. Does anyone else want to play in this realm?
    Last edited by songsfortheotherkind; 17th June 2012 at 11:42.

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    Default Re: So how much transformation is actually wanted, really?


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    Default Re: So how much transformation is actually wanted, really?

    Quote Posted by PurpleLama (here)
    *falls about laughing* You are so awesome.

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    Default Re: So how much transformation is actually wanted, really?

    Great post to clarify your terms and views, Songs.

    Quote The superior tones of self importance regarding *any* belief or perspective would cease
    As evidenced again recently on this forum, a large part of my ongoing work in self-culture upon myself is in regards to my responses to my hot-buttons in this area, and to the ongoing process of trying to recognize and root out my remaining self-importance.

    Posting and participating on a forum like this one can serve as quite a personality mirror.

    Concerning autonomy verses heteronomy, all my life I have rebelled against belief-systems, accepted mass ritual behaviors, organized religious programming, and against all laws which come from a place of nanny-state-hood or attempts to regulate and control anyone's behavior when it is not affecting another being.

    In the context of personal and individual autonomy, and as one who was awakened by substances the state declared to be off-limits and illegal, and who found most forms of prohibition absurd and counter productive, I found resonance with these ideas:



    Quote Ain't Nobody's Business if You Do: The Absurdity of Consensual Crimes in Our Free Country (ISBN 0-931580-58-7) is a book by Peter McWilliams in which he presents the history of legislation against what he feels are victimless crimes, or crimes that are committed consensually, as well as arguments for their legalization.

    The book is divided into five sections.
    Part I gives a definition of victimless and consensual crime and outlines the difference between personal morality and governmentally-imposed morality.
    Part II presents arguments against the criminalization of victimless crimes.
    Part III gives a closer look into some of the individual activities which the author classifies as consensual crimes, such as prostitution and marijuana use, but which the majority of criminologists would classify as victimless.
    Part IV gives historical examples of the treatment of consensual and victimless crimes, such as Prohibition, and Biblical examples.
    Part V advises readers on what to do to change the laws.

    Throughout the book are approximately six hundred quotations by noted thinkers on both sides of his positions (primarily supporters).

    McWilliams presents a variety of arguments against the criminalization of victimless crimes. Some are philosophical in nature: one argument is that laws against these crimes are based in religion, which violates the separation of church and state. He also claims that they are un-American, as they attempt to homogenize the country to a certain group's idea of morality, and that they create an oppressive society, restricting personal freedoms without justification. Another claim is that they teach irresponsibility, by not letting people deal with the natural consequences of their actions, but rather penalizing them whether or not their actions harmed anyone else.

    Other objections are practical: catching the "criminals" involved is an expensive affair. Victimless crimes draw manpower and funds away from crimes that do hurt innocent parties, and enforcement of the laws is not consistent enough to be an effective deterrent. He also argues that actions to help people deal with problems caused by these illegal activities are effectively prevented by their criminilization -- for example, no one could be helped about their drinking problems during Prohibition. Additionally, he details how laws against victimless crimes paved the way for organized crime.

    Activities examined in detail in Part III include gambling, recreational drug use, medical marijuana, prostitution, homosexuality, pornography, indecent exposure, and seat belt legislation.
    All of the above being said, part of my awakening was the realization that All is connected, All derives from (a) Source, and finding the balance between Self Expression, Creative Manifestation, while still Existing in a Harmonious relationship with that All is quite the Art of Living.

    At least for me and my path of learning and evolution of Self as currently understood and perceived.

    (I may add to this later, for now real life is calling, but this looks like a good pot to stir around in, Songs)
    Last edited by mountain_jim; 18th June 2012 at 12:38.
    I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. - Robert Anton Wilson

    The present as you think of it, and in practical working terms, is that point at which you select your physical experience from all those events that could be materialized. - Seth (The Nature of Personal Reality - Session 656, Page 293)

    (avatar image: Brocken spectre, a wonderful phenomenon of nature I have experienced and a symbol for my aspirations.)

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    Default Re: So how much transformation is actually wanted, really?

    See totality within itself that is connected with everything.
    For free society!

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    Default Re: So how much transformation is actually wanted, really?

    Quote Posted by mountain_jim (here)
    As evidenced again recently on this forum, a large part of my ongoing work in self-culture upon myself is in regards to my responses to my hot-buttons in this area, and to the ongoing process of trying to recognize and root out my remaining self-importance.
    *smiling* It's one of the reasons I keep posting here- I too recognise the benefit of the fertile ground this forum presents when it comes to expansion and refining of signal. Having said that, I'm also aware that it is possible to find those who fundamentally get both the distinctions that I'm talking about *and* are actually interested in the subtle energetic signals that go with them. Seen my Joker pics lately? He had a *lot* of interesting things to say about not letting the limitations and fears of others constrict one's sui generis- perhaps his method of expressing this was a tad explosive and yet in terms of the balancing act of reflection with Batman, necessary: nobody bothers how much firepower and heteronomy *Batman* is packing under his protective suit, while the Joker was only wearing a spiffy outfit and the conviction of his perspective and signal. Apparently that at least matches a billionaires hi-tech toys- that in itself is an interesting message to explore, imo.

    Quote Posting and participating on a forum like this one can serve as quite a personality mirror.
    And again, the refining, which is part of my sui generis anyway.

    Quote
    It was partly my deep law studies that helped me pinpoint the power of the sui generis in dismissing these laws. Without going into it here, suffice to say that the law is built on the premise of heteronomy and a quick stroll through some of the definitions of 'human being' and 'person' in the law is an eye-opening reveal as to how the governing forces have construed human beings: I have found the term 'animals', 'chattel', 'cattle' and 'asset' to define 'human being'. The fundamental basis of heteronomy is the belief by those imposing the particular law that those having the law imposed on them are inferior and incompetent to manage their own affairs. There is a LOT in the law that assumes the incompetency of the masses- one of the markers for incompetency buried *within* the law itself is the marker for obeying these laws- it is fully known and understood by the lawmakers that those who *truly* know who they are will know a number of things, one of them being that the laws set up to manage a bunch of incompetent and homogenous minors do not apply to them. The lawmakers know that autonomous Beings don't argue with the court at a lower level- a competent and sui generis individual never deals with incompetents, which is what the lower courts are: doorkeepers set up to separate the minors from the rest.

    The higher courts understand the true power of the sui generis. If anyone is interested, check out Alfred Adask and the way he dismissed the massive fines and threats against him by using his living Being as evidence of his own jurisdiction. I'm not going to get caught up in a discussion of the law though- there's enough of that out there and I was immersed in it for two solid years and walked away when I found the power of the sui generis when it's truly exercised. I discovered that there were precious few who wanted to talk about *that*- they preferred the war. *shrugs* The only reason I use the law now in my discussions is to demonstrate that I really do know the power of this key beyond the esoteric applications and perspectives. Part of the key is, *never argue with the minions* because they're trained to be traps, so they don't know this aspect of the law- go high enough and it is *absolutely* known, it's part of what the heteronomy has been striving desperately to hide.

    Again I say- I am aware that the heteronomy itself operates within certain restrictions. Not being permitted to violate true free will is one of these restrictions. They're permitted to bamfoozle the issue of free will- and to bamfoozle even the term 'free will' itself- but if an individual stands before them who is utterly, completely in their sui generis their laws disappear like smoke. Know who you really are is a pulse that is beating ever more strongly in the collective consciousness, and for very very good reason: this is where the beginning of the real power resides.

    Quote All of the above being said, part of my awakening was the realization that All is connected, All derives from (a) Source, and finding the balance between Self Expression, Creative Manifestation, while still Existing in a Harmonious relationship with that All is quite the Art of Living.
    I absolutely and utterly agree that the All is connected. That being said, the All as is expressed on this planet is a constant drag down the scale to the lowest common denominator, which is currently devolving ever lower. This simply is not the end of the scale I wish to play in- and absolutely never has been- and this in itself causes problems for those at the other end of the scale, because they have no grasp whatsoever of the concepts that I'm talking about and this makes them freak out. I've experienced this since the age of three. It hasn't improved in general, it's just that I'm much much more discerning of who I even think about revealing my Self to. This gap in not only understanding but the actual *ability* to make those kind of synaptic connections in the first place causes its *own* problems, one of the ones explored in the recent X-Men movie: how do a bunch of fundamentally and profoundly differently experiencing and thinking Beings exist in the world *without* those who *aren't* like them freaking out and throwing bombs on them.

    So far, the answer has been, be invisible and don't rock the boat. This, however, is a profoundly unsatisfactory option- don't do anything to disturb the tranquil pond of the masses, despite the obvious issues- such as the pond being anything *but* tranquil. I'm not interested in the slightest with that option anymore, and I'm not interested in playing nice with the heteronomy that is pimped at me on a daily basis under the guise of being part of the 'All'- it's not 'All", it's very very selectively set up to NOT embrace expressions and experiences such as I Am. So it's an 'All' that is geared towards the perspective of the masses, the lowest common denominators, the collective- and the collective is constantly choosing heteronomy.

    Hmm. Now it would *seem* we have a dilemma, unless the concept of true sui generis is willing to be explored. And that's the territory *I* want to be in- the X-Men movie that had the senator that was gunning against the mutants is a really good example of how the heteronomy will *always* seek to demonise the different: it HAS to, for its own virus based survival. I'm not interested in the All that has been infected by the virus- it's not permitted out in the rest of the multiverse so it's not going anywhere, it cannot evolve because that is against its fundamental tenets, so the only thing that can happen is dissolution. I'm already aware of that. What I'm exploring is the *next bit*- ok, sui generis autonomy, what exactly does that look like? How can it be expressed in such a way that a foundation platform is created from which to explore? The many questions that anyone creating a new platform asks. I'm looking for new points of triangulation from a research and development point of view. I am aware that there are many other roles, including those that want to try and bring the humans along. That's their sui generis and I respect it, AND I'm not going to assist them in that task because *I personally* see it as Sisyphean, given my singularity experience and history of this planet. There are others with a vast range of different interests in the same playing field. It is my intuition and calling to find the platforms that support this infinite variety in such a way that doesn't create the usual clusterf*uck, because I don't know about anyone else but I am really really bored with that recursive scenario.

    I'm not interested in playing nice, I'm interested in playing intelligently, robustly, innovatively and with utter sui generis. That at times makes me look like a cast iron pain in the arse. Sometimes, I don't just *look* like a cast iron pain in the arse, but comfort can be taken in the knowing that I'm primarily first and foremost a pain in my *own* arse. *big cheesy grin* And I'm so not going into the grubbier territories of that comment either.

    Quote At least for me and my path of learning and evolution of Self as currently understood and perceived.
    And that's really the fun bit- sui generis Beings grinning at each other across the flat and boring plane of the current paradigm and saying 'well, what do we want to do now?'. I'm often swimming in my own naturally high levels of DMT, so it makes my perspective different.

    (I may add to this later, for now real life is calling, but this looks like a good pot to stir around in, Songs) [/QUOTE]

    Real life. How rude! Getting in the way of interesting stuff yet again. *laughing*
    Last edited by songsfortheotherkind; 18th June 2012 at 09:41.

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    Default Re: So how much transformation is actually wanted, really?

    Songs wrote:
    Quote *smiling* It's one of the reasons I keep posting here- I too recognise the benefit of the fertile ground this forum presents when it comes to expansion and refining of signal.
    It's very true, though the forum continues to morph as members come and go and the personalities change.
    On the whole, I think the forum is a great mirroring/refining tool, as well as a good place (sometimes) to catch up with what is going on behind the scenes in the world.
    I'm glad some fresh turf has been established here for the ongoing discussion of sui generis, which, though central to the Pub thread as well, is a subject worthy of plenty of exploration.
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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    Default Re: So how much transformation is actually wanted, really?

    Quote Posted by onawah (here)
    I'm glad some fresh turf has been established here for the ongoing discussion of sui generis, which, though central to the Pub thread as well, is a subject worthy of plenty of exploration.
    *grins at you* mmm, let's see how it goes, first...

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    New Zealand Avalon Member Carmen's Avatar
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    Default Re: So how much transformation is actually wanted, really?

    Good stuff Songs! The freedom to explore everything and to make free choice as to what suits me. It actually, (for me anyway) is what 'works' and what doesn't. To explore, to learn, to experience! Then we have the wisdom. I don't wanna hear philosophy, I want to know what you have personally experienced. That's inspiring. Love the meaning of the word Sui generis. Suits me!

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    Default Re: So how much transformation is actually wanted, really?

    This thread is a gift from the Otherkind, free for the taking. It should be interesting, with all of the directions 'interesting' can take, to see how this gift is treated.

    Your gift of expression and generous posts, along with your proven track record of maintaining a thread could make this the most important thread we have here at Avalon. It certainly will create a filter to see what kind of population we really have here.

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    Default Re: So how much transformation is actually wanted, really?

    Quote Posted by Hughe (here)
    See totality within itself that is connected with everything.
    I really don't understand what exactly you are suggesting or indicating here. Can you elaborate?

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    Default Re: So how much transformation is actually wanted, really?

    Quote Posted by songsfortheotherkind (here)

    So far, the answer has been, be invisible and don't rock the boat. This, however, is a profoundly unsatisfactory option- don't do anything to disturb the tranquil pond of the masses, despite the obvious issues- such as the pond being anything *but* tranquil. I'm not interested in the slightest with that option anymore, and I'm not interested in playing nice with the heteronomy that is pimped at me on a daily basis under the guise of being part of the 'All'- it's not 'All", it's very very selectively set up to NOT embrace expressions and experiences such as I Am. So it's an 'All' that is geared towards the perspective of the masses, the lowest common denominators, the collective- and the collective is constantly choosing heteronomy.
    Thank you very much for starting this thread. In my life I learned from early age to be invisible and I agree with you that it is a totally unsatisfactory option. I brainwashed myself with the belief that nobody understands me. Now since a few years I discovered the internet and learned how many lies our so called leaders have told us and how much we have been deceived. I realize that with my silence I have allowed this situation to be created and I now know that I deserve more than this.

    Max Igan is telling us: non compliance to the system and creating community. The old will crumble in no time, once nobody is giving any energy to it and second respecting others view and not do harm to any living creature.

    Blessings
    George

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    Netherlands Avalon Member Trail's Avatar
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    Default Re: So how much transformation is actually wanted, really?

    Amazing brilliant thread! a beacon of light!

    I can't agree more with the OP and could never have said it so brilliantly well.

    Now let's incorporate autonomity into our lives and try to work with it to free ourselves collectively.

    This thread has been stampt as a 'sticky' into my personal mindspace

    Thanks for starting this thread.

    ~Trail.
    Each progressive spirit is opposed by a thousand mediocre minds appointed to guard the past. ~Maurice Maeterlinck
    Its a rare person who wants to hear what he doesn’t want to hear. – Dick Cavett

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    Default Re: So how much transformation is actually wanted, really?

    This thread is the meat of the matter that needs addressing. Thanks for the lead in addressing this subject. Your path truly conjoins the vision of mine and I will positively do my best to help in this endeavor. Thanks again for opening this door in the manner you did. Songs, your thread is so right on.


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    Default Re: So how much transformation is actually wanted, really?

    The aggressiveness to be autonomous is often either not noted or misunderstood. The minimum is like a seedling breaking through the ground. In todays' mind-controlled, virus matrix it is more akin to a plant growing up through concrete. Multiply that by thousands and millions and the concrete/matrix will shatter. That kind of aggressiveness is hampered when a virus is whispering notions of heteronomy in ones' ear, creating illusions that stifle that urge. As well as patterns of behavior that are anything but autonomous. Transformation would not be called for if the need was not so extant. Heteronomy is the norm, with a few autonomous freaks thrown in, here and there. Changing that balance is called for to produce results other than the mind prisons humanity has lived in for thousands of years.

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    Default Re: So how much transformation is actually wanted, really?

    You just started very importand thread SotOK. I hope we will end up with

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    Many thanks

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    Default Re: So how much transformation is actually wanted, really?

    Quote I absolutely and utterly agree that the All is connected. That being said, the All as is expressed on this planet is a constant drag down the scale to the lowest common denominator, which is currently devolving ever lower. This simply is not the end of the scale I wish to play in- and absolutely never has been- and this in itself causes problems for those at the other end of the scale, because they have no grasp whatsoever of the concepts that I'm talking about and this makes them freak out. I've experienced this since the age of three. It hasn't improved in general, it's just that I'm much much more discerning of who I even think about revealing my Self to. This gap in not only understanding but the actual *ability* to make those kind of synaptic connections in the first place causes its *own* problems, one of the ones explored in the recent X-Men movie: how do a bunch of fundamentally and profoundly differently experiencing and thinking Beings exist in the world *without* those who *aren't* like them freaking out and throwing bombs on them.

    So far, the answer has been, be invisible and don't rock the boat. This, however, is a profoundly unsatisfactory option- don't do anything to disturb the tranquil pond of the masses, despite the obvious issues- such as the pond being anything *but* tranquil. I'm not interested in the slightest with that option anymore, and I'm not interested in playing nice with the heteronomy that is pimped at me on a daily basis under the guise of being part of the 'All'- it's not 'All", it's very very selectively set up to NOT embrace expressions and experiences such as I Am. So it's an 'All' that is geared towards the perspective of the masses, the lowest common denominators, the collective- and the collective is constantly choosing heteronomy.
    I don't disagree with any of the above.

    When I went from being a cynical, depressed outcast to having an awakening to connection and meaning, the All signal I was becoming aware of was not particularly focused on the deluded automatons content in their Illusionary existence that I had so rebelled against - it was more about walking in the stars as the I AM realization of (my) true Selfhood, activating dormant circuits and energies to go further out and in, and Realizing, (echoed in the words of a poet of great influence for me - Robert Hunter, lyricist for The Grateful Dead, here from the tune Ripple), that each must ultimately find/realize their own connection to Source and meaning (or perhaps waste the opportunity and hopefully get another chance).

    Quote There is a road, no simple highway
    Between the dawn and the dark of night
    And if you go, no one may follow
    That path is for your steps alone
    Sui generis indeed.

    ps: Walking in the Stars was a concept that first occured to me on the water's edge on a starlit beach at night, with a former lover, both in altered states, and the bioluminescent organisms in the water and on the wet sand beneath our feet seemed to merge with the Starry Sky, and my I AM self and partner walked among the stars for a timeless-time.

    http://www.sciencebuddies.org/scienc...hem_p033.shtml



    Figure 1. Bioluminescent dinoflagellates (a form of algae) caused the blue glow in this wave near Carlsbad, California. (Wikipedia, 2009.)


    Quote Marine dinoflagellates are the main contributors to a phenomenon commonly known as phosphorescence of the sea. When the concentration of these bioluminescent organisms in the water near shore is high, the wave crests glow with a luminous blue light (see Figure 1, below). Wet sand on the beach even glows blue when you step on it! The reason that the light appears on wave crests and in the sand near your feet is that the bioluminescent organisms glow when they are subjected to mechanical stress. They sense that they are being pushed and pulled in the waves, and in the sand near your feet, and respond by producing the light. It is not clear what sort of adaptive advantage this light might have for the organisms, but it makes for a beautiful show if you are lucky enough to witness it.

    There are many examples of bioluminescence in nature, with the most familiar being the firefly. Bioluminescence evolved independently in many different organisms. The biochemical basis for bioluminescence is the luciferin-luciferase reaction, shown in Figure 2, below. In this reaction, the enzyme luciferase oxidizes the substrate luciferin to convert chemical energy into light energy. Luciferase is an enzyme, a type of protein that speeds up chemical reactions. The reaction that luciferase catalyzes is the oxidation of luciferin by molecular oxygen (O2) to form oxyluciferin plus light.

    Last edited by mountain_jim; 18th June 2012 at 16:47.
    I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. - Robert Anton Wilson

    The present as you think of it, and in practical working terms, is that point at which you select your physical experience from all those events that could be materialized. - Seth (The Nature of Personal Reality - Session 656, Page 293)

    (avatar image: Brocken spectre, a wonderful phenomenon of nature I have experienced and a symbol for my aspirations.)

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    Default Re: So how much transformation is actually wanted, really?

    Setting up triangulation

    Setting up tech support

    Prepping for fart in a spacesuit (just in case)

    Fires up the heteronomy detector
    Bookmarks and

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    Default Re: So how much transformation is actually wanted, really?

    Thank you for that post mountain_jim. Your sharing has a flavor of my own understanding.

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    Default Re: So how much transformation is actually wanted, really?

    Programming,--- its all programming that’s programmed that will bring up questions---- instead of existence--- is just existence arising as it rises. Endless possibilities-- with out end ---for all of eternity. Limited focus is the beast that asks a question? All knowing is silence. Lack in one tinny thing in any area of all that is will raise the beast or questioning. Silence brings the end to all creation. Bliss-- totaly being complete in ALL that is.
    Feeling with out lable's and words. Webb of words will always keep one in prison of its definitions of endless possiblity's in conceptuality. its a sticky webb, the spider is a noisy beast. and the beast is not you, its what your looking at. your the silence thats watching it.





    WE ARE COMPLETE BEHIND ALL THIS NOISE ?



    lol John Complete !!!!!! in silence.



    So how much transformation is actually wanted, really? === transformation in thought-- what is. the silent watcher allowing you transform or formulate thought can not be changed or wanted ------ really ! and that silence is always tapping you on the shoulders. Knock, Knock. thanks for your video WhiteCrowBlackDeer. John
    Last edited by ljwheat; 18th June 2012 at 17:40.
    Paintings that I have created over the last 35 years >Gallery https://projectavalon.net/forum4/album.php?albumid=587< or here at ACC http://www.ashtarcommandcrew.net/gro...-or-collection

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