Accidental kill averages, doctors versus guns

[778 neighbour of some guy]

I checked out Benjamins site, for something that made sense ( hard to find as usual) but i came across this small post, so for your information here it is.

Statistics apparently come from the FBI and health services. ( have not checked this out myself, be my guest)



Doctors vs Guns – which are more deadly?
Doctors:
(A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.
(B) “Accidental deaths” caused by Physicians per year: 120,000.
(C) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.
Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of Health and Human Services.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Guns:
(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000 (Yes, that’s 80 million).
(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, Is 1,500.
(C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .000188.
Statistics courtesy of FBI
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So, statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Remember, ‘Guns don’t kill people, doctors do.’
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.

[modwiz]

Brilliant post Plumber. I already knew how dangerous they are and avoid them, like a fly avoiding a spider web. In the USA where one has to pay for everything, unlike most civilized Western countries, the spider analogy is too apt. Step on the web, get wrapped up in the system and then systematically sucked dry. That is, if you aren't one of the above numbers.

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Posted by modwiz (here)
Brilliant post Plumber. I already knew how dangerous they are and avoid them, like a fly avoiding a spider web. In the USA where one has to pay for everything, unlike most civilized Western countries, the spider analogy is too apt. Step on the web, get wrapped up the the system and then systematically sucked dry. That is, if you aren't one of the above numbers.

You are so right Mod, worst thing is, i encounter on a daily basis being caught between a rock and a hard place, being a professional in mental healthcare as a social worker/counselor.

I very often agree with clients regarding the shortcomings of healthcare and nevertheless have to work with it despite it limitations.

The vision of the institution is equality between client and profesional, sounds great and could be great, reality is, clients will always be dependant on my judgement wheter they or even i like it or not.

When someone really wants to giving starting a life one his/herself again i can do three things.


1. No you dont, you are not ready, when you crash, you have to start all over again with a big pile of disapointment in your emotional backpack and it will be harder to recover and give it another go, wait a while, pick up a few more life skills, ( like just opening your mailbox and pay your goddamn bills, ( remember how you got into contact with me in the first place). Client can agree or disagree or end contract. But i have to say my thing, thats my job and i dont like people being dependend on me( like i dont like being dependend on others).

2. Thats great, you made progress, i hear nothing but good things of you and what you have acomplished, go for it, when things turn to ****, give me a call, ill be there for you, even better, when it hasnt turned to **** allready but you can see it coming, call me anyway, we will figure something out okay?

3. The controled crash, just let me go and get of my back gdammit, i am sick of your face and these institutions, fine, go in peace, ( but we will be watching, you are still welcome, no matter how pissed you are at me, i know its almost never personal, its just someone being stuck in a place they dont want to be).

Anyway................ the system allows me to do this, GREAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT. But Sh!t dude, in the end its all about the benjamins, the organisation i work for gets paid for the number of clients we "proces", thats a icecold titaniumhard fact, i know this and some clients know this as well, so when things get personal i understand, i also understand its never as personal as it sounds or looks like, we are just people making the best out the tools we have to get things moving again, the fact sick, disturbed, addicted, screwed up, unlucky bastards pay my bills can be quite odd. Funds are limited, expectations are not, this is where the sh!t starts, people with the best of intentions are not provided with the means to do their job properly and it is designed this way, just sick.

I cant even explain properly Mod, there are just so many variables it is mindbogling, misery pays my bills, optimism and good intentions on my part make life bearable for clients.

Of course clients and the organisation both can be completely ungratefull bastards as well, nature of business and the human condition.

There is no black or white in here, this is a really big subject.

[alamojo]

Doctors kill a lot more than 120K per year -- see "Death By Medicine"

www.webdc.com/pdfs/deathbymedicine.pdf

[Ki's]

As a nurse I can tell you that many doctors idea of 'continuing education' is whatever their drug rep tells them.

[shadowstalker]

Yes and that is very sad, they don't even bother to read the paperwork that come with the new drugs. these new doctors stand on very week research (there own)..
My grandfather never would have considered half the drugs that come out these days. we would have prescribed something works for real or not at all, or he would have prescribed herbal remedies that could be found close by for the patient.

[Earth Angel]

looks like stronger 'doctor' control laws are needed......to be fair though it would be interesting to know how many deaths are created each year from those guns, accidental or otherwise.
I used to be totally anti gun until I became aware of what the government is doing.......not trying to protect us , trying to make sure we can't fight back as they take away all our rights......its a tough call

I live an hour from Toronto and in the past two weeks we've had a mall shooting with 2 dead and 5 injured.......and this week as my daughter sat at a pub watching the euro match, a man on the patio next door to the pub was shot point blank in the head and another man shot as well........she could see this from where she was sitting.....certainly not something you expect in Toronto.

[Paula]

Thanks 665 plumber of the beast,

Articles like this serve to strengthen my resolve in showing “all the them's out there” who’s in charge of this mind, body, and spirit.

Peace,
WhiteCrowBlackDeer

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Posted by Ki's (here)
As a nurse I can tell you that many doctors idea of 'continuing education' is whatever their drug rep tells them.

This is totally true, i am also responsable for handing out medication, just comes with the territory and on a daily basis i hand out antipsychotics, methadon, diazepam, lorazepam, methylfenidrates and god knows what more a client/patient/guest usually gets his/her prescription from a psychiatrist, he faxes it to the pharmacy, the farmacy crosschecks with us, i check the medicationlists,when correct a small white van pulls up an hour later and drops of bags full of above mentioned drugs, and drugs is what a lot of it is.

Some need them, some want them, some trade them, some sell them, but it all passed through my hands beforehand, some have to take their meds in front of me, i give them some water, thats all i can do, i am not allowed to check if they swallowed, crazy.

Thats big business, i am happy the mkeds are there for who really needs them, but thats about all i am gratefull for.

[nearing]

I work very hard with each and every patient to give nutrition, vitamin, mineral, and herbal guidance before ever handing out a prescription for anything. This is easy for me because my hobby is to research and understand the very best of what is understood to help people I those categories. I am a rare medical practitioner though. My patients are grateful that I know so mucha out nutrition and healthy lifestyles because they arent' getting this info from anyone else.

The pharmaceutical companies aren't as happy with me.

It the best part of my day.

[Zampano]

0 gun owners = 0 accidental gun accidents
0 physicians = ?

80 000 000 gun owners save ? lives
700 000 physicians save...how many lives?

But I agree, there is something wrong in the health system. As you said plumber, you get paid per client you process is not a very human way.
The doctor gets paid more (or other benefits) in using specific medicines.
Most of the doctors are working between 60 and 90 hours per week including standby.
The university studies consumes a lot of time to learn and the work takes even more.

No wonder that most of the doctors dont have time to think outside the box, about what is creating all this illnesses, tumours and so on.
They are doing a very responsible job, but under this circumstances it is quiet easy to make mistakes.

[DeDukshyn]

TPTB want us to belive that "Terrorism" is the greatest threat to mankind ... I wonder what the Dr's VS terrorists ratio is .... I bet more than guns even

I read an article that compared the stats of the risk of dying from a terrorist attack. One of the results was that if a 9/11 event (same number of deaths) occured once per month on average, then the risk of driving a car would be overtaken by the risk of dying from terrorist attack. One per month, 12 times a year ...

Natural health products are "dangerous" they say, yet +200,000 thousand death each year in the US are attributed to the "regulated" US health care systems in one way or another.

Bill Gates in his infamous Ted talk (no longer on Ted) "We can reduce the population of humans by 15% With new vaccines and healthcare inititives ..." -- They plan to use regulated healthcare to kill you off. Damn right they demonize natural health products - easy to see why ...

I'll stop here

[mountain_jim]

My work partner, who lands the contracts (ironically lately in the pharma industry, but the product manufacturing area I work with is FDA-related regulations and documentation for contact lense devices, so that's not so bad)... anyways he went in for 1 hour kidney stone removal surgery in february, the doctor had problems with length of instrument, tried to fat-finger a solution, munged around, nicked a major artery near heart, putting him in cardiac unit intensive care for weeks. He nearly died 3 times, various complications and infections, clots, they did not discover reason for losing so much blood internally for almost 5 weeks, when he was taken from home in ambulance to a different hospital and they finally discovered the source of the leak.

He went back into surgery after 8 weeks for original problem, they screwed up and re-opened the leak, (not discovered for days), new kidney/bladder/prostate infections set in, here it is 4 months later and he's barely able to function and his hospital bill to the insurance company is in the millions.

Now I understand why I read this week that if you have kidney stones insurance may not take you as a customer.

I have no doubt there are natural ways to both avoid and break down these stones, but he never listens to me on anything alternative - maybe that will change now. Previously they used lasers to break them up, apparently his were too big or something for that anymore.

And the projects he was supposed to close the deal for still aren't happening, which is why I have spent too much time on this forum lately.

[Ki's]

The thing I like to remind people is to remember that the Doctor works for you. (just like a plumber or mechanic or anything else) Stand up for your rights and demand full explanations of all procedures and drugs...inquire about the side effects...do internet searches related to any pending lawsuits for Doctor or drugs...and ask for natural alternatives.
Feel free to say no. There are naturopathic doctors out there and DO's tend to be more naturopathic than MD's
(Ya, I know it can get sticky when you're trying to work around insurance and even worse if it is medicaid/medicare...but you can still say no to a drug or procedure you don't agree with)

Seems that people get stuck in the belief that their body and health is not their responsibility, that doctors are god and that there is a magic pill to fix anything.


This guy -> http://www.drhoffman.com/ is a mainstream naturopathic physician and comes up with some good info related to unsafe medications and unnecessary medical procedures.
I've heard him speak on topics as diverse as the hydrogen peroxide therapy and GMO's. He's a pretty good resource for what's going on out there.

[nearing]

Posted by mountain_jim (here)
My work partner, who lands the contracts (ironically lately in the pharma industry, but the product manufacturing area I work with is FDA-related regulations and documentation for contact lense devices, so that's not so bad)... anyways he went in for 1 hour kidney stone removal surgery in february, the doctor had problems with length of instrument, tried to fat-finger a solution, munged around, nicked a major artery near heart, putting him in cardiac unit intensive care for weeks. He nearly died 3 times, various complications and infections, clots, they did not discover reason for losing so much blood internally for almost 5 weeks, when the finally discovered the leak.

He went back into surgery after 8 weeks for original problem, they re-opened the leak, new kidney/bladder/prostate infections set in, here it is 4 months later and he's barely able to function and his hospital bill to the insurance company is in the millions.

Now I understand why I read this week that if you have kidney stones insurance may not take you as a customer.

I have no doubt there are natural ways to both avoid and break down these stones, but he never listens to me on anything alternative - maybe that will change now. Previously they used lasers to break them up, apparently his were too big or something for that anymore.

And the projects he was supposed to close the deal for still aren't happening, which is why I have spent too much time on this forum lately.

Wow, what a story, poor guy. The saddest part is that if people made sure to take adequate magnesium either in their diet or by supplementing, the incidence of renal stones (and arteriosclerosis and strokes and hypertension and osteoporosis and osteopenia and brain plaques, etc) would all decrease significantly. Not go away completely, mind you, but a very large portion would be relieved.

This is because magnesium is the cellular gatekeeper to calcium in the body. Magnesium is what either allows calcium into or kicks calcium out of each cell. Thereby making sure that calcium goes where it is needed (bones, teeth) and stays out of where it isn't (arteries, kidneys, brain).

Why don't docs tell every pt to be sure to take their magnesium (to bowel tolerance)? Because it it s anatueal substance and cannot be patented. Oh yeah, and it's unbelievably inexpensive!

[Cidersomerset]

This is another thread theme,I've be been thinking about on and off, from the view of fear. The mainstream news and media tend to
concentrate on the negative as 'Bad News sells newspapers' as the old saying said,and as part of the oppressive phychy we live
under for all the usual reasons to keep populations in their place and the rich and powerfull in charge...
It has been obvious to me that as millions are born and die each day as the natural cycle of life.The focus is always on the
negative.As I said the best way to keep us under control and is creating war/terror scenario's which justify spending billions
on the mil ind comlex's around the world keeping the elites, Banksters and Bast---'- inpower!!

Anyway thats a bit of spiel for an article in the 'Guardian 'news paper about the death statistic for England & Wales for 2010

Mortality statistics: every cause of death in England and Wales

How do we die? Are you more likely to get knocked down by a car, bitten by a dog or fall down the stairs? Find out with the latest mortality statistics
• Get the latest data



The annual mortality statistics published by the Office for National Statistics provide vital clues for health experts looking at causes of death - and those who specialise in the prevention of accidents.

It gives us a real picture of risk. We may worry about swine flu, for instance - but the big killers of heart disease and cancer are much more significant in terms of public health. What is also striking is how constant many of these numbers of deaths are - why do around 12,000 people die each year in accidents, for instance? Why do around 200 people accidentally drown every year?

Besides the graphic above (which you can download as a PDF), we've summarised two of the datasets below: major causes of death and deaths from external causes - ie, accidents or assaults. If you want to find out how many people died after being stung by bees or falling down stairs, this is the place to look.

Guardian and Observer health correspondent Denis Campbell's take on it is:


As a society we are understandably concerned with death and our or our loved ones' risk of dying, and parts of the media routinely warn us about the latest apparent health hazard, involving drugs, machinery, the elements or a new infection. This mortality data is fascinating. They include causes for concern, but also reasons for relief. For example, about 12,000 of us die every year in an accident, and that figure remains stubbornly high. Those data include good news, though: deaths in transport accidents have fallen from 2,968 in 2007 to 2,284 in 2009 - a drop of almost 25%. And while more people are cycling, the number of cyclists killed in a transport accident are falling, as are those after a collision with a car or van.

But this accident deaths category contains bad news, too. Fatalities from falls have risen from 3,318 in 2007 to 3,593 in 2009, probably due to our ageing population and the recent colder winters; ice and snow can be very bad news, especially for older people. Deaths from exposure to smoke, fire and flames have also risen, as have those from accidental poisoning, inadvertent alcohol poisoning and those from intentional self-harm - all of which should make some of us rethink some of our habits.

Infection is one of the great health challenges of our time. New infections emerge fairly regularly and can cause particular problems once they get into hospitals which are harder for medical staff to combat than MRSA and C-difficile, which are more common. But it's clearly good news that overall deaths from infectious and parasitic disease have fallen significantly recently, from 8,169 in 2007 to 5,570 in 2009. For example, the drop in C-difficile deaths (4,012 to 1,698) reflects the NHS's determined efforts to tackle hospital-acquired infections. And while it's reassuring that no one died that year of malaria, and only one each of measles and mumps this data illustrates that chickenpox and shingles, which claimed 19 and 43 lives respectively, for example, are more lethal

The data itself comes from death certificates and records the main cause of death - which is why the influenza numbers are lower than other estimates, for instance. If you get flu, which then lowers your resistance enough for pneumonia to kill you, for instance, pneumonia would be the main cause of death recorded.

The NHS has visualised previous years' data already with its atlas of risk. And this data, although published last October, gathered virtually no coverage.

• This article was amended on 12 January 2012 to correct "bitten by bees" to "stung by bees".

Can you do something better?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I cannot copy the list/chart the link is below...


http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...and-wales-2009

The point I'm saying is that most deaths are not cynister, though we are kept in fear by being
one ' bite' or virus away from the next plague . Or terrorist suitcase nuke or rogue state.
Part of our waking up is to realise these are all tools to keep us paranoid !!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ah as for the actual thread issue 80 million guns in public ownership is uncomprehencible
here as the gun culture is so differrent. It comes from the frontiersman past and the right
to bear arms, so if thats the culture fine and its excepted by the majority and as said
more die in hospital than by gunshot.

I do think the increase in gun ownership is due to the 'fear' factor and if the same scenario
was to happen here the black market would soon open up with cheap guns from eastern
Europe. I have often wondered if the clean up of most, not all gun ownership in the UK
was set up by the Hungerford and Dunblane massacres...In hind sight it seems odd that
those two events in England and Scotland came out of the blue and instigated the gun
clean up here....Coincidence or 'mind control'....It seems strange knowing what we know
now about mind control and those isolated cases..There has been one or two minor ones
since, seems strange !!

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by mountain_jim (here)
My work partner, who lands the contracts (ironically lately in the pharma industry, but the product manufacturing area I work with is FDA-related regulations and documentation for contact lense devices, so that's not so bad)... anyways he went in for 1 hour kidney stone removal surgery in february, the doctor had problems with length of instrument, tried to fat-finger a solution, munged around, nicked a major artery near heart, putting him in cardiac unit intensive care for weeks. He nearly died 3 times, various complications and infections, clots, they did not discover reason for losing so much blood internally for almost 5 weeks, when he was taken from home in ambulance to a different hospital and they finally discovered the source of the leak.

He went back into surgery after 8 weeks for original problem, they screweed up and re-opened the leak, (not discovered for days), new kidney/bladder/prostate infections set in, here it is 4 months later and he's barely able to function and his hospital bill to the insurance company is in the millions.

Now I understand why I read this week that if you have kidney stones insurance may not take you as a customer.

I have no doubt there are natural ways to both avoid and break down these stones, but he never listens to me on anything alternative - maybe that will change now. Previously they used lasers to break them up, apparently his were too big or something for that anymore.

And the projects he was supposed to close the deal for still aren't happening, which is why I have spent too much time on this forum lately.

This made me cringe ... I'm so sorry to hear this considering there is an effective natural treatment.

It is called Phyllantus Niruri (PN) extract or sometimes referred to as Chance Piedra. It is very effective at breaking down kidney and gall bladder stones.

link: http://aor.ca/html/products.php?id=41 Excerpt below from the "Research" tab.

Kidney stones and Gallstones

Another well documented application of PN extract is for the treatment of kidney and gall stones. Kidney stones are one of the most painful and common urinary tract problems, and it is reported that over 600, 000 patients are treated for gallstones in the U.S. alone each year. In South America, PN is commonly known as "Chanca Piedre" which in the local dialect of Spanish means, "to break stone". The ability of PN extract to inhibit the growth of kidney stones has been clearly demonstrated in both animals and humans. PN has been used to treat gall bladder infections in South America, and is often taken in the form of tea. PN has also been used in Germany and France to treat gall bladder and kidney stones with over a 95% success rate within 1-2 weeks of treatment. A study examining calcium excretion in 69 individuals with past incidences of kidney stones has shown that PN extract significantly decreases calcium levels in the urine. Furthermore, PN has been demonstrated to effectively inhibit the internalization of calcium oxalate crystals, which are the building blocks of kidney stones. Yet another study found that treatment with PN following shock wave therapy for kidney stones improved the outcome of the treatment. A greater proportion of patients taking PN were found to be stone free following treatment, and were less likely to require additional shock wave therapy.

In addition to its ability to inhibit crystal internalization, PN's ability to treat kidney stones may be further enhanced by the powerful spasmolytic, or muscle relaxant, activity of one of the constituents of PN, phyllanthin. Relaxation of the smooth muscle of the kidney tubules and ureter may help to expel stones.

[mahalall]

Does your Dr or nurse have the Shipman potential?

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4brTowMpFs

[778 neighbour of some guy]

Here, even more stats. Not up to date, but to get the general idea.

http://msucares.com/safety/death/statistics/index.html

When you check out the map on medical, it show you a number per county, i added them up and it is TOTAL BS........... only 322 by medical???????????? over a period of 12 years ( 1991/2003) in the entire state of Mississipi, population of Mississipi is.........now aproxx 2.978.512 (Census 2011). Really makes me wonder who provides these people with their stats.

Anywho, it is safe to say only cases in wich was proven it was malpractice are in the OFFICIAL stats, 8 out of 10 cases probably never make it to the stats, the number of people dying from unnecesary prescribed medication/surgery must run upto many tens of thousends per year alone in the US.

So if you dont want to be in the stats, EAT SOME GODDAMN VEGETABLES.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOyebcrVWb4

[DeDukshyn]

dying from unnecesary prescribed medication/surgery must run upto many tens of thousends per year alone in the US.

Over 200,000 I believe. In the US alone. (main killer: prescription drugs) -- I'm sure half of that could be considered "unneeded" - when there are usually safer and often very effective alternatives.