Teachers (Revisited)

[pie'n'eal]

May I share something with you?

I am a painter (pictures). my greatest teacher is....is.....a mirror! My brain sees one way, the mirror shows up all the imbalances, in design, tone and colour! Our own brain gets a bit fixed. At the Academy we use a clear mirror and a dark mirror, they are an artists best friend.

A human guide does the very same thing, shows you your imbalances. Who you consider your foe, does the very same thing, but your guide helps you to read the situation, until you can do it on your own.

Then you can love thy neighbour with all your heart...and not find fault.

They just need a little adjusting, as I do, all the time!
"Mirror mirror on the wall, who is the fairest of them all?"


Tony

[Fred Steeves]

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)
"Mirror mirror on the wall, who is the fairest of them all?"

Ugh, that damn mirror...It's like, "what long cherished delusion are you going to expose THIS time?" (LOL)

[Jenci]

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)

Posted by Jenci (here)

In fact the more we learn, the quieter we become.



"Those who know do not talk.
Those who talk do not know."

Hi Jenci, you know that I lean heavily towards that we are remembering from whence we came, as opposed to learning. Of course we are all dragging each other along that rugged path of remembrance. I fall, you pick me up, you fall, I pick you up.

Being given a hand up from a big stumble doesn't usually require a lot of words, does it?

I reckon we could call these teachers?

I agree, many who have helped me have been my teacher....but on the other hand those who have put the boot in and kicked me when I was down, have also been the teacher.

Here's something to consider, if we know who our teacher is, are we open to learning?

Everything is energy and needs to flow freely. As soon as we hold onto something we block the flow of energy. If a teacher comes into our life and we then create a belief which tells us this is our teacher, we are holding onto something. This is quite a natural tendency of the mind/ego to grasp at something and make a story about it. In doing so we cling and hold on to a belief/idea/concept about where the teacher is. This is where the energy gets blocked and the flow stops.

There's a saying, 'When the student is ready, the teacher will appear'

If the student already knows where the teacher is, how can the teacher appear?


And I am with you on the idea this is all about remembering where we came from
Jeanette

[Unified Serenity]

It would be an incredible experience to have a camp out with all the people on this thread. To sit and discuss the truths shared within this and then experience the rabbit trails and revelations that came from the conversations. This is what Avalon is about imho.

[pie'n'eal]

"Those who know do not talk.
Those who talk do not know."

Sorry I cannot agree with this at all, it just does not make sense! It's so New Agey.
I've been to many many teachings by wonderful inspiring teachers, what would be the point of going there and the teacher saying nothing? One can easily sit in silence and totally totally misunderstand!....I did!

There very subtle levels of consciousness that can be misunderstood for 'being there', when in fact it is a blank vacant state. I've been to teaching that have explained this with great precision. How can one communicate finer details by saying nothing? What you will get is a mood, and that is useful. But that can easily be turned into a sentimental state.

As well as a heart, you have a head. They work together....don't leave home without either!

Tony

[another bob]

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)
"Those who know do not talk.
Those who talk do not know."

Sorry I cannot agree with this at all, it just does not make sense! It's so New Agey.
I've been to many many teachings by wonderful inspiring teachers, what would be the point of going there and the teacher saying nothing? One can easily sit in silence and totally totally misunderstand!....I did!

There very subtle levels of consciousness that can be misunderstood for 'being there', when in fact it is a blank vacant state. I've been to teaching that have explained this with great precision. How can one communicate finer details by saying nothing? What you will get is a mood, and that is useful. But that can easily be turned into a sentimental state.

As well as a heart, you have a head. They work together....don't leave home without either!

Tony

"Not only are books the mere discarded husk or shell of wisdom, but words themselves... are irrelevant to the deeper experience of Tao, the 'wordless doctrine'. If the Taoist speaks and still more if he writes, he does so merely to arouse interest in his doctrines, and not in any hope of communicating what another can not be made to feel, any more than you can feel the pain in my finger."

- Athur Waley

[Antagenet]

IN my experience Teachers came in the form of:

Role Models - for the inspiration of what direction to go towards
Mentors - for their belief in my abilities, and hands on advice
Coaches - for their love and encouragement
Psychologists - for the best and most personal questions I ever received.

[Unified Serenity]

It's been my experience that we are all teachers and students. It is key to know which are are at any given time and embrace that experience from a loving standpoint.

[Rahkyt]

Posted by mariposafe (here)
Exactly ! Preaching ain't teaching !!!

Far better to simply be yourself, live by your heart, as fully as possible, and if some of that attitude rubs off on those around you - great. If not, that's equally OK.

It is ALL ok. Coming to that realization is coming to the recognition that we don't have to beat others over the head with anything. I used to teach college classes. Introductory Geography classes. Physical, human. Students paid to go to the colleges I taught at, they paid to sit in a chair and listen to me pontificate on different aspects of geography. I did not go out in the street to scream at them. There has to be a willingness factor on the part of those who become privy to the information presented. A free will choice.

There is an agreement between teacher and student, one that actually puts each in the position of the other at different stages of the interaction. The agreement is to engage in this knowledge-building endeavor together and to come out of the interaction different people. When there is resistance on the part of the one receiving the information. The agreement is null and void because no teaching occurs and no learning is involved. It is thusly that karma is accrued.

[Unified Serenity]

Posted by another bob (here)

Posted by pie'n'eal (here)
"Those who know do not talk.
Those who talk do not know."

Sorry I cannot agree with this at all, it just does not make sense! It's so New Agey.
I've been to many many teachings by wonderful inspiring teachers, what would be the point of going there and the teacher saying nothing? One can easily sit in silence and totally totally misunderstand!....I did!

There very subtle levels of consciousness that can be misunderstood for 'being there', when in fact it is a blank vacant state. I've been to teaching that have explained this with great precision. How can one communicate finer details by saying nothing? What you will get is a mood, and that is useful. But that can easily be turned into a sentimental state.

As well as a heart, you have a head. They work together....don't leave home without either!

Tony

"Not only are books the mere discarded husk or shell of wisdom, but words themselves... are irrelevant to the deeper experience of Tao, the 'wordless doctrine'. If the Taoist speaks and still more if he writes, he does so merely to arouse interest in his doctrines, and not in any hope of communicating what another can not be made to feel, any more than you can feel the pain in my finger."

- Athur Waley

Being an empath, I can most definitely feel others pain. The most natural thing is to teach an open heart and ear, ask any mother.

I also add, that no one could follow tao if someone who brought it about did not teach it and hand it down to one another.

[Fred Steeves]

Posted by Unified Serenity (here)
It would be an incredible experience to have a camp out with all the people on this thread. To sit and discuss the truths shared within this and then experience the rabbit trails and revelations that came from the conversations. This is what Avalon is about imho.

What a cool idea US, wouldn't that make for an awesome weekend? I call fire duty.

[Fred Steeves]

Posted by rmauersr (here)
Those who push my buttons the most are my greatest teachers.

Ain't that a bitch Ron? Just because we may know this little bit of useful information, doesn't necessarily translate into behaving like a saint when those buttons are being pushed does it? Me thinks the really important aspect of that is in the noticing, and the acknowledgement that we just had our buttons successfully pushed again. Where there is atleast an acknowledgement, the possibility exists to carefully extract that hair from the butter's surface, and gently lay it aside.

[Jenci]

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)

Posted by rmauersr (here)
Those who push my buttons the most are my greatest teachers.

Ain't that a bitch Ron? Just because we may know this little bit of useful information, doesn't necessarily translate into behaving like a saint when those buttons are being pushed does it? Me thinks the really important aspect of that is in the noticing, and the acknowledgement that we just had our buttons successfully pushed again. Where there is atleast an acknowledgement, the possibility exists to carefully extract that hair from the butter's surface, and gently lay it aside.

If we always behaved like a saint when our buttons got pushed, would we ever learn the lesson?

Jeanette

[Fred Steeves]

Posted by Jenci (here)

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)

Posted by rmauersr (here)
Those who push my buttons the most are my greatest teachers.

Ain't that a bitch Ron? Just because we may know this little bit of useful information, doesn't necessarily translate into behaving like a saint when those buttons are being pushed does it? Me thinks the really important aspect of that is in the noticing, and the acknowledgement that we just had our buttons successfully pushed again. Where there is atleast an acknowledgement, the possibility exists to carefully extract that hair from the butter's surface, and gently lay it aside.

If we always behaved like a saint when our buttons got pushed, would we ever learn the lesson?

Jeanette

Well Jence, maybe it would be time for us to just like, float away into the clouds, and dimensions beyond, if we had the "button pushers" mastered huh?

Mission accomplished...

[another bob]

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)
Well Jence, maybe it would be time for us to just like, float away into the clouds, and dimensions beyond, if we had the "button pushers" mastered huh?

Mission accomplished...

Well, just because one may finish grammar school, doesn't mean there's no more to learn.

[Sebastion]

You can certainly say that again Anotherbob......!

Posted by another bob (here)

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)
Well Jence, maybe it would be time for us to just like, float away into the clouds, and dimensions beyond, if we had the "button pushers" mastered huh?

Mission accomplished...

Well, just because one may finish grammar school, doesn't mean there's no more to learn.

[Unified Serenity]

Maybe that is the role of some of us on earth now, Official button pushers :D

[Fred Steeves]

Posted by Unified Serenity (here)
Maybe that is the role of some of us on earth now, Official button pushers :D

I've certainly pushed my fair share, and likely continue to do so.

[another bob]

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)

Posted by Unified Serenity (here)
Maybe that is the role of some of us on earth now, Official button pushers :D

I've certainly pushed my fair share, and likely continue to do so.

"Causing and bearing each other's burden"


M: Strife and struggle are a part of existence. Why don't you inquire who is responsible for existence?

Q: Why do you say that existence and conflict are inseparable? Can there be no existence without strife? I need not fight others to be myself.

M: You fight others all the time for your survival as a separate body-mind, a particular name and form. To live you must destroy. From the moment you were conceived you started a war with your environment - a merciless war of mutual extermination, until death sets you free.

Q: My question remains unanswered. You are merely describing what I know - life and its sorrows. But who is responsible you do not say. When I press you, you throw the blame on God, or karma, or my own greed and fear - which merely invites further questions. Give me the final answer.

M: The final answer is this: nothing is. All is a momentary appearance in the field of universal consciousness; continuity as a name, and form as a mental formation only, easy to dispel.

Q: I am asking about the immediate, the transitory, the appearance. Here is a picture of a child killed by soldiers. It is a fact - staring at you. You cannot deny it. Now, who is responsible for the death of the child?

M: Nobody and everybody. The world is what it contains and each thing affects all others. We all kill the child and we all die with it. Every event has innumerable causes and produces numberless effects. It is useless to keep accounts, nothing is traceable.

Q: Your people speak of karma and retribution.

M: It is merely a gross approximation: in reality we are all creators and creatures of each other, causing and bearing each other's burden.

~ Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, "I Am That"

[Fred Steeves]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)

It is ALL ok. Coming to that realization is coming to the recognition that we don't have to beat others over the head with anything. I used to teach college classes. Introductory Geography classes. Physical, human. Students paid to go to the colleges I taught at, they paid to sit in a chair and listen to me pontificate on different aspects of geography. I did not go out in the street to scream at them. There has to be a willingness factor on the part of those who become privy to the information presented. A free will choice.

Yes Mark, don't know if you meant to or not here, but I think you touch very well on the subtleties of "those who know do not talk". I've never found that to mean an absolute either way, between "talking" or "not talking". It's like everything else in life, if the action is appropriate then do it, if not then don't.

If say, me and a neighbor find ourselves sipping a couple of frosty cold ones one evening together, and they wind up asking me something like: " So Fred, have you ever thought about what 'all this' is about?", then certainly I would share, to a point of course, all depending. But, if I just belly up to the bar at me local pub for a couple of frosties, it's a different story. Now of course knowing me(LOL), I'll likely wind up raising a few unsuspecting eyebrows anyway before I pull up stakes, but I reckon ya'll know what I mean.