Obamacare stands: your thoughts or opinions?

[dreamer]

Just wondering how my fellow avalonians feel about the 5-4 decision made today.

[CdnSirian]

It seems that the US is getting less and less shy about appearing as socialist as it is and always has been.

[conk]

I feel like puking my state owned guts out!

[bmdb]

First off just a correction it was a 5-4 vote...just want to have correct facts for whatever that is worth. Secondly, I think it is a sad day. The justices agreed that if you use the commerce clause then yes it is unconstitutional for congress to force you to buy something. But they determined that if you look at it in the context of Congress's right to tax then it is ok...in other words they aren't forcing you to buy anything but if you don't they will tax (not fine) you more. That is the biggest pile of bull dung I have ever heard of. Just SAD!

[Arpheus]

I work in MA so it doesnt change anything for me,because if you work in ma its mandatory anyway,but for all the other state out there,i am sure a lot of people are going to be unhappy about this,this just goes to prove that the govt can get away with anything these days,because the herdof sheep wont do crap about it,sad sad times really!!

[Kindred]

With this ruling, most likely I will not be able to afford to live in my home any more...

Perhaps this is the impetus I need to develop an alternate lifestyle...

OR... 'move on up' to Better Pastures.

We'll see how this truly pans out...

In Unity, Peace and Love... and a New Earth

[Lefty Dave]

Anyone with half a brain knows the fed govt has NO right to force a citizen to buy anything....

I look at WHO upheld this tyranny and WHO dissented ....this speaks volumes !!!

When will America , and the world, awaken to reality?





The court's four liberal justices, Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Elena Kagan and Sonia Sotomayor, joined Roberts in the outcome. Justices Samuel Alito, Anthony Kennedy, Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas dissented.

[noprophet]

Being american, and having ignored all this medical mumbo jumbo for awhile now, I have a two part question.

How much does it cost and what happens when I don't pay it?

[LarryC]

Posted by bmdb (here)
First off just a correction it was a 5-4 vote...just want to have correct facts for whatever that is worth. Secondly, I think it is a sad day. The justices agreed that if you use the commerce clause then yes it is unconstitutional for congress to force you to buy something. But they determined that if you look at it in the context of Congress's right to tax then it is ok...in other words they aren't forcing you to buy anything but if you don't they will tax (not fine) you more. That is the biggest pile of bull dung I have ever heard of. Just SAD!

I seriously doubt if these votes are authentic anyway. They always try to make it look like it's a fair vote, and close. I'm sure the decision was known long beforehand. I would have been very surprised if it had turned out otherwise.

[Unified Serenity]

Now, the economy will truly implode. Good job Congress, SCOTUS, POTUS, Rothschild, etc., the plan is coming together nicely and this old building we've been in will soon be a completely unlivable one and we will beg for a new one. Just as planned.

Nothing to see here, move along folks.

[hardrock]

Great humanitarian concept to provide healthcare to everyone. Terrible and illegal execution though. Much like everything else the US government does.

[Belle]

Posted by Arpheus (here)
I work in MA so it doesnt change anything for me,because if you work in ma its mandatory anyway,but for all the other state out there,i am sure a lot of people are going to be unhappy about this,this just goes to prove that the govt can get away with anything these days,because the herdof sheep wont do crap about it,sad sad times really!!

I, too, live in MA, where we have mandatory health insurance thanks to Romney.

It's a mess. So many people applied to MassHealth because they could not afford to buy insurance, and MassHealth has options from payments they decide people can afford to totally free insurance. It's costing the state a bundle.

Five years later, and it's almost impossible to get a pcp because of the shortage created by this law, yet they are central to health care...almost everything needs a referral from a pcp, who coordinates the care a person gets. The state legislature has been discussing a bill to allow interns to serve as pcp's of a sort to help the situation. Physicians assistants are almost totally useless. And the quality of care has diminished. God forbid you need anything more than a blood pressure check and lab work...you get passed around from pcp to specialist (if you're lucky enough to have an insurance they will accept!), back to pcp and little to nothing gets done. The pcp will tell you they defer to the specialist. The specialist will tell you they are there only to advise the pcp and they defer to the pcp. And round and round it goes.

I've been fighting the system for four years now trying to get some kind of firm diagnosis and care for my disabled son who is in chronic pain. All we've asked is to find out exactly what the problem is, can it be fixed, and if not, what are the alternatives. Still going from pcp to specialist, back and forth, without any answers they are willing to commit to. Four years with chronic pain and still no pain management...that's just crazy wrong.

It's bad enough when they write laws for our "safety" that comes with a price tag attached. But when they are allowed to tell us how we must spend our money on a sick system "for our benefit", that's going too far. It's never for our benefit, but rather for the greedy industries that profit from such legislation.

To take a system, the medical industry, that is fubar and require everyone to participate is the epitomy of just how disfunctional our government has become, imo. It just proves to me that we have the best government money can buy.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

They already force us to buy disability insurance and take it straight out of our pay. They already require us to buy into a retirement plan and take it straight out of our pay.

I laughed today at Romney's speech. The mandate was a great idea when it was his idea. The mandate was a great idea when Republicans proposed it during the Clinton era. Now it is a bad idea because anything Obama does must be opposed. If Obama proposed a policy that said we should not drink the blood of infants, the Republicans would quickly say that not drinking the blood of infants was a job killer. And still no real proposal to solve the health care problems we have faced for decades now.

If I believed in the two-party presidential puppet show, I would be annoyed that Republicans have still offered no ideas except "Oppose anything Obama does, no matter what" and "Lower taxes on the rich". Meanwhile the democrats renew the treasonous patriot act every year, haven't reformed the TSA, refuse to address illegal immigration issues, still haven't closed gitmo, and still haven't done jack for homeless veterans.

Don't pick sides in the stupidity circus, folks. That's what they want you to do. As Haymitch said to Katniss, "Remember who the real enemy is."

[hardrock]

The PCP shortage is a huge issue when they are the healthcare gatekeepers of a low paying system. In most states there is a delicate and highly political balance of whom and how many are accepted into medical school. More PCP's = lower pay for them. Not enough = low standards of care. Also, it takes on average about 5-6 years of school post Bachelor's to get your general med license, so anything changed today will not reflect in the amount of physicians for quite some time.

[jagman]

Shame on you, Chief justice John Roberts! You sold your soul sir. You were probably compromised but it makes no difference now. Pearl Harbor
also caught us off guard. I fell ill today when this decision......abomination was delivered. I feel so sad. I need to get some perspective before
I comment any further.

[Unified Serenity]

Posted by jagman (here)
Shame on you, Chief justice John Roberts! You sold your soul sir. You were probably compromised but it makes no difference now. Pearl Harbor
also caught us off guard. I fell ill today when this decision......abomination was delivered. I feel so sad. I need to get some perspective before
I comment any further.

You have to have one first in order to sell it.

[Arpheus]

Posted by Belle (here)

Posted by Arpheus (here)
I work in MA so it doesnt change anything for me,because if you work in ma its mandatory anyway,but for all the other state out there,i am sure a lot of people are going to be unhappy about this,this just goes to prove that the govt can get away with anything these days,because the herdof sheep wont do crap about it,sad sad times really!!

I, too, live in MA, where we have mandatory health insurance thanks to Romney.

It's a mess. So many people applied to MassHealth because they could not afford to buy insurance, and MassHealth has options from payments they decide people can afford to totally free insurance. It's costing the state a bundle.

Five years later, and it's almost impossible to get a pcp because of the shortage created by this law, yet they are central to health care...almost everything needs a referral from a pcp, who coordinates the care a person gets. The state legislature has been discussing a bill to allow interns to serve as pcp's of a sort to help the situation. Physicians assistants are almost totally useless. And the quality of care has diminished. God forbid you need anything more than a blood pressure check and lab work...you get passed around from pcp to specialist (if you're lucky enough to have an insurance they will accept!), back to pcp and little to nothing gets done. The pcp will tell you they defer to the specialist. The specialist will tell you they are there only to advise the pcp and they defer to the pcp. And round and round it goes.

I've been fighting the system for four years now trying to get some kind of firm diagnosis and care for my disabled son who is in chronic pain. All we've asked is to find out exactly what the problem is, can it be fixed, and if not, what are the alternatives. Still going from pcp to specialist, back and forth, without any answers they are willing to commit to. Four years with chronic pain and still no pain management...that's just crazy wrong.

It's bad enough when they write laws for our "safety" that comes with a price tag attached. But when they are allowed to tell us how we must spend our money on a sick system "for our benefit", that's going too far. It's never for our benefit, but rather for the greedy industries that profit from such legislation.

To take a system, the medical industry, that is fubar and require everyone to participate is the epitomy of just how disfunctional our government has become, imo. It just proves to me that we have the best government money can buy.

Am sorry to hear about your issues with your son,but like i said in my post we get to eat ths kind of crap because the herd of sheep that we are all part of doesnt have the guts to do anything solid and concrete enough to end this madness,because thats what i call this stuff its just MADNESS.And if you think this is bad imho this is just the beggining,i honestly believe this was some sort of test to see how far they can keep pushing us little lambs to keep doing this things its just insanity and my blood boils when i think about it , arrgghh,sorry folks but its getting harder and harder to swallow the crap lately it really is !!

[StarDust]

I think that this is just another side show designed to distract people from what is really going on in the world. Soon we will have technologies presented to us that will CURE people. That will mean the end of medical treatment as we know it - end to health care, end to big pharma, end to insurance companies. In the interim, I think that everyone having some form of coverage is the right thing to do. Why should people who purchase health insurance always have to carry the burden of those who go without it. I think we should have gone to a single payer system just like every other civilized country in this world. But if we need to 'stick' with our current system where insurance companies make profits off of other peoples pain, then so be it. Proper health care should be a human right, not a privilege reserved for those with money.

[Belle]

I posted to share what has happened in just one state after 5 years of a mandatory health "care" system. Obamacare may just prove to be an even bigger nightmare...imo, MA was a test run.

Just a reminder that there are alternatives to the medical industry...as most of you know. We've had more success with chiropractic, acupuncture, Chinese herbal medicines, MAP, biofeedback, etc., as well as hemp which provides instant pain relief when we can get it. Of course, MA has not passed a medical marijuana bill yet...can't go taking profit away from pharma now, can we?

[jagman]

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=P3hY1eagq88