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Thread: Deciphering Forum Trolls

  1. Link to Post #41
    Avalon Member SKAWF's Avatar
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    Default Re: Deciphering Forum Trolls

    what if all the trolls on the internet
    decided to target tptb?

    my own limited experience to identifying a troll is......

    someone who labours the same point over and over
    and no matter how many people offer different viewpoints
    it is never enough. it never leads anywhere near a resolution

    someone who will take that same point and inject it into threads of different subjects
    regardless if its appropriate or not.

    someone who is persistantly 'contray' to anything that is presented to them

    someone who displays a clear lack of regard for others

    someone who will go onto a thread with the intention of causing dispruption to it
    (it may take 30 people to create a good thread, but just one can destroy it)

    someone who gets a jolly out of winding people up

    as has been stated above, about pasting long articles.......
    not wrong in itself....
    but if someone is going to fill up my screen with words,
    i want them to come from that person..... not wikipedia
    i do feel that every now and then is fine....
    but not for every post.

    i have found that some trolls dont have that big a lexicon to work with.
    there are only so many pre constructed replies available to the troll

    and so after a while
    one might notice them coming back with the same 'witty' response over and over.

    i do feel that what they are really trying to do...
    is project onto everyone else....the negativity they feel inside
    maybe as a perverse way of redressing their own imbalance...
    or as some kinda warped power game.
    possibly both

    steve
    Last edited by SKAWF; 10th July 2012 at 00:04.
    when i went there nothing happened!, i was bored out of my mind..................in the Twilight Zone.

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    Avalon Member enfoldedblue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Deciphering Forum Trolls

    Having quickly read through this thread, it seems to me that there is confusion here due to the use of the term troll. In my understanding a troll is basically someone (generally with way too much time on their hands) who 'gets off' by stirring people up. They love to get people's goat, and make them squirm.

    I didn't get the sense that the OP was saying that people with different opinions were trolls.

    But my interpretation of the OP is that s/he (sorry don't know) is just putting out a gentle warning to others to be aware that there are likely AGENTS (not trolls...though they sometimes act like them) among our members, who are paid to keep the divisional info in focus.

    I agree that it can be a dangerous thing to point out because we can start second guessing our fellow members, but at the same time I do think this is a good thing to be aware of...as long as we are not making accusations.
    Last edited by enfoldedblue; 10th July 2012 at 00:00.

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    Moderator-in-training Sidney's Avatar
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    Default Re: Deciphering Forum Trolls

    Quote Posted by Humble Janitor (here)
    I'm not sure what the point of this thread is.

    The term "troll" is offensive anyway because it's used far too often to paint people with differing opinions in a negative manner.

    I've been called a troll on other forums for expressing my opinions.

    The internet is a vicious place due to the hive minds and need to conform to "rules" and "guidelines". You can't really talk about taboo subjects like drug legalization, etc on for example, ATS because the administrators need the ad revenue to keep the site going. Like no one is going to advertise about a subject like that? How about an age-verification program?

    I remember the internet when it was a vast, open frontier of information. Like a giant book. My 15 year old self was delighted at this new technology.

    As a 30 year, I've had enough.
    It really should only be offensive to the TROLL. If you are not a troll, whats the worry? Nnot sure I get where you are coming from.

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    Avalon Member LarryC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Deciphering Forum Trolls

    It's hard to identify trolls, because you never really know what someone's intentions are. But it's quite likely there are a few on every forum like this. This doesn't necessarily mean they are paid disinfo agents, though some probably are. Others may just be addicted to the game of arguing, debunking and outwitting their opponents (at least in their own minds).

    I am actually researching this and related topics right now. Not specifically about trolls, but about how to tell the difference between truth and disinfo. I came across the following on a forum I'm not familiar with. I would suggest reading the post by someone named Jibbguy, who claims to be familiar with the recruitment process used to hire paid shills. He says they actively recruit people who are skilled at arguing, such as out of work lawyers.

    http://www.overunity.com/7516/how-to.../#.T_uimHA6KUc

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  9. Link to Post #45
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    Default Re: Deciphering Forum Trolls

    .

    nice find LarryC....

    I think it's worth quoting that first post from 'jibbguy'...he's talking about some things that I've noticed here and on another forum I'm on.




    Quote Back when i was mainly in the political blog genre, i was "recruited" for this (or specifically, they tried to). I went along with it long enough to find out what the deal was. It required doing a writing test that shows the person's "persuasive writing" ability. At least with the people who offered me work, it went like this:

    A "Contractor" who is a third party "cutout", hires people to shill. The individual "free-lance" shills are usually not told who the actual "Client" is (although they can often guess because of the message). The shills are given their next "projects" (sometimes as a team), given info on how to mask their MAC numbers and change I.P.'s, and sent a URL for a forum to go to, and of course the specific "message" they are supposed to disseminate and push there. Sometimes forum names of people there are also given to "support" or '"attack"; and they are often provided background info needed for them to sound "up to speed" on the subjects discussed (lol one way to detect them is they will often use "buzz words" indiscriminately and inappropriately as a means of trying to establish "cover").

    Sometimes, existing forum accounts are used by giving the new person a pre-existing account name and password. This gets tricky, as people can often exhibit a strange and innate subconscious ability to detect differences in writing style (whether this is "ESP" or simply "intuition" is hard to say, but it does exist). Those that do this, usually keep their posts as short as possible... The less said the better.

    The targets are not always open forums, but often news sites (like newspapers' online sites, or news orgs' online sites like "CNN"), that have popular "Comment" areas under the day's articles.

    The intent is not always direct, but sometimes more subtle, in that the threads are often attempted to be "shaped" and "guided" by a team working together in certain directions first for a while as a "set-up" for some specific reason that later comes out. Not only that, but there is frequent use of something called

    "REVERSE BIAS"

    which means that the shill will often start out new on the site, posting in favor of the thing they are actually against. This can work two ways: "One", as setting a "provenance" and "bona fides" for the shill, and "Two" as a means of subtly dis'ing a subject by pretending to be for it. Often in the first case, the person will later "change sides"... LOL as a means of saying: "Gee, i was convinced by the wonderful arguments on the other side that i was completely wrong before! Thanks for saving me from my own stupidity!"

    And YES, i did tell them to got to hell

    Lawyers who are out of work or currently "under-employed", are often tapped for this work... Either as free lancers or contracted through their Firm. Lol i guess the idea is that they are better than average at Debate (since this is actually taught in Law School).... But the truth is, very few of these people no mater where they come from, are any good at all When it comes down to it, they usually "suck" and their main strategy is to often use ad hominem personal attacks and threat of derision. In fact this is a main indicator to watch for... Not that many adults will stoop to these tactics unless first provoked. But some will who are not shills lol, so it is only ONE indicator and not "proof".

    Shills can be effective on less intelligent people who are confused by more arcane arguments, by re-defining the argument into a more simple context, then once that is done they use straw-man arguments "proving" the new, simpler thrust that meets their goals... Basically it is a "bait and switch" game; and classic misdirection... Tarring all the subject by defining only one part of it.... Lol, sound familiar?

    "Shilling" is not a new profession (lol if it can actually be called a profession, like "egg sucking" could ), but it has changed and grown greatly since the rise of the Internet.

    I have read that the U.S. military uses actual military personnel to shill directly for them as well in at least some cases. But it would be hard to prove that one i imagine

    But i've said this before, and will again prolly, lol:

    The majority of people suspected of being "shills" or "dis-info artists" on these sites (which are the same thing imo), are probably not really. They are simply people who disagree with us So caution is suggested, and it is rarely wise to directly confront them (unless some good proofs exist first.. Which ARE possible to obtain).

    Having said that, they certainly do exist and there are probably some reading this thread right now The fun part of it is, they are just "people", and are nothing to fear as they are just jerks without any personal honor sitting at their computers... And they certainly can be manipulated, the same way they try to do with others


    The word 'troll' has a broad meaning....but the OP on the first page made it clear they were talking about 'agents'.


    We're really talking about PSYOPS or PSYWAR.....


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_warfare

    Quote Psychological warfare (PSYWAR), or the basic aspects of modern psychological operations (PSYOP), have been known by many other names or terms, including Psy Ops, Political Warfare, “Hearts and Minds”, and Propaganda.[1] Various techniques are used, by any set of groups, and aimed to influence a target audience's value systems, belief systems, emotions, motives, reasoning, or behavior. It is used to induce confessions or reinforce attitudes and behaviors favorable to the originator's objectives, and are sometimes combined with black operations or false flag tactics. Target audiences can be governments, organizations, groups, and individuals.

    they seek to persuade, change and influence


    One way that genuine members can use the PSYOPS crew...is to notice what/who they are attacking, what they are steering genuine members towards (or away from) and also what they are largely ignoring ...if you have your psyops 'suspects'...or group of suspects, you can use them as a pointer as to what the status quo doesn't want aired...or what they want to fill your head with...


    I know this can get into the realm of paranoia...lol...but I DO believe it is the reality of any forum dealing with sensitive info and/or conspiracies.


    .
    Last edited by jaybee; 10th July 2012 at 06:19.

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    Canada Avalon Member gigha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Deciphering Forum Trolls

    jaybee that is why I started this thread

    to show that trolls shills or whatever are here

    thank you.

    Quote Posted by jaybee (here)
    .

    nice find LarryC....

    I think it's worth quoting that first post from 'jibbguy'...he's talking about some things that I've noticed here and on another forum I'm on.




    Quote Back when i was mainly in the political blog genre, i was "recruited" for this (or specifically, they tried to). I went along with it long enough to find out what the deal was. It required doing a writing test that shows the person's "persuasive writing" ability. At least with the people who offered me work, it went like this:

    A "Contractor" who is a third party "cutout", hires people to shill. The individual "free-lance" shills are usually not told who the actual "Client" is (although they can often guess because of the message). The shills are given their next "projects" (sometimes as a team), given info on how to mask their MAC numbers and change I.P.'s, and sent a URL for a forum to go to, and of course the specific "message" they are supposed to disseminate and push there. Sometimes forum names of people there are also given to "support" or '"attack"; and they are often provided background info needed for them to sound "up to speed" on the subjects discussed (lol one way to detect them is they will often use "buzz words" indiscriminately and inappropriately as a means of trying to establish "cover").

    Sometimes, existing forum accounts are used by giving the new person a pre-existing account name and password. This gets tricky, as people can often exhibit a strange and innate subconscious ability to detect differences in writing style (whether this is "ESP" or simply "intuition" is hard to say, but it does exist). Those that do this, usually keep their posts as short as possible... The less said the better.

    The targets are not always open forums, but often news sites (like newspapers' online sites, or news orgs' online sites like "CNN"), that have popular "Comment" areas under the day's articles.

    The intent is not always direct, but sometimes more subtle, in that the threads are often attempted to be "shaped" and "guided" by a team working together in certain directions first for a while as a "set-up" for some specific reason that later comes out. Not only that, but there is frequent use of something called

    "REVERSE BIAS"

    which means that the shill will often start out new on the site, posting in favor of the thing they are actually against. This can work two ways: "One", as setting a "provenance" and "bona fides" for the shill, and "Two" as a means of subtly dis'ing a subject by pretending to be for it. Often in the first case, the person will later "change sides"... LOL as a means of saying: "Gee, i was convinced by the wonderful arguments on the other side that i was completely wrong before! Thanks for saving me from my own stupidity!"

    And YES, i did tell them to got to hell

    Lawyers who are out of work or currently "under-employed", are often tapped for this work... Either as free lancers or contracted through their Firm. Lol i guess the idea is that they are better than average at Debate (since this is actually taught in Law School).... But the truth is, very few of these people no mater where they come from, are any good at all When it comes down to it, they usually "suck" and their main strategy is to often use ad hominem personal attacks and threat of derision. In fact this is a main indicator to watch for... Not that many adults will stoop to these tactics unless first provoked. But some will who are not shills lol, so it is only ONE indicator and not "proof".

    Shills can be effective on less intelligent people who are confused by more arcane arguments, by re-defining the argument into a more simple context, then once that is done they use straw-man arguments "proving" the new, simpler thrust that meets their goals... Basically it is a "bait and switch" game; and classic misdirection... Tarring all the subject by defining only one part of it.... Lol, sound familiar?

    "Shilling" is not a new profession (lol if it can actually be called a profession, like "egg sucking" could ), but it has changed and grown greatly since the rise of the Internet.

    I have read that the U.S. military uses actual military personnel to shill directly for them as well in at least some cases. But it would be hard to prove that one i imagine

    But i've said this before, and will again prolly, lol:

    The majority of people suspected of being "shills" or "dis-info artists" on these sites (which are the same thing imo), are probably not really. They are simply people who disagree with us So caution is suggested, and it is rarely wise to directly confront them (unless some good proofs exist first.. Which ARE possible to obtain).

    Having said that, they certainly do exist and there are probably some reading this thread right now The fun part of it is, they are just "people", and are nothing to fear as they are just jerks without any personal honor sitting at their computers... And they certainly can be manipulated, the same way they try to do with others


    The word 'troll' has a broad meaning....but the OP on the first page made it clear they were talking about 'agents'.


    We're really talking about PSYOPS or PSYWAR.....


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_warfare

    Quote Psychological warfare (PSYWAR), or the basic aspects of modern psychological operations (PSYOP), have been known by many other names or terms, including Psy Ops, Political Warfare, “Hearts and Minds”, and Propaganda.[1] Various techniques are used, by any set of groups, and aimed to influence a target audience's value systems, belief systems, emotions, motives, reasoning, or behavior. It is used to induce confessions or reinforce attitudes and behaviors favorable to the originator's objectives, and are sometimes combined with black operations or false flag tactics. Target audiences can be governments, organizations, groups, and individuals.

    they seek to persuade, change and influence


    One way that genuine members can use the PSYOPS crew...is to notice what/who they are attacking, what they are steering genuine members towards (or away from) and also what they are largely ignoring ...if you have your psyops 'suspects'...or group of suspects, you can use them as a pointer as to what the status quo doesn't want aired...or what they want to fill your head with...


    I know this can get into the realm of paranoia...lol...but I DO believe it is the reality of any forum dealing with sensitive info and/or conspiracies.


    .

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  13. Link to Post #47
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    Default Re: Deciphering Forum Trolls

    Quote Posted by gigha (here)
    jaybee that is why I started this thread

    to show that trolls shills or whatever are here

    thank you.

    you're very welcome.....


    I have been interested in this subject for a while now...ever since I joined (another)

    forum back in 2007. One of my first posts was a bit of a far-out theory about gravity and I was taken by surprise when my post was pounced on and the idea (and myself) was attacked...in a ruthless way. I was...woah...what's going on here?

    I have since observed (in that forum) that when a 'genuine' new member appears that wants to explore deeper stuff...or get into the psyops target areas...they are given 'the treatment'....and that new member has to toughen up if they want to stick around. Many don't and just slip away. Or some can't be bothered with the aggravation.


    well done for starting this thread...hopefully it will be useful for genuine members...

    cheers

    .

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    Default Re: Deciphering Forum Trolls

    the first time I joined a forum was because what I was reading was infuriating...

    I pulled on the pointy toed boots and jumped right into the center...

    at this point, why would a psyop be used at a forum like Avalon?


    they attempted to take Avalon, because it is special, but have given up knowing as long as there is Bill Ryan seeking truths, Avalon will be here with him...


    many people communicate at the top of their voice, not knowing to others it seems like yelling...

    so most trolls are just being themselves and haven't learned differently. What's funny is when they meet another and another...

    then we just quietly close the door and leave them talking together, they don't even notice we are gone...
    Coincidence or Destiny, it's all in the art of knowing.... III IIII charts ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    It's just a ride :) danceblackcatdance's Avatar
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    Default Re: Deciphering Forum Trolls

    You might as well ask why they would be all over a site like YouTube... And it's pretty obvious that they are, crudely and blatantly trying to sway opinion.... Hearts and minds !
    OOB NOOB

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    Default Re: Deciphering Forum Trolls

    The term troll is not the appropriate term here. A troll is someone with low self esteem who gets off on causing a reaction. It is a way for those who feel powerless to feel powerful. Annoying, and we have all no doubt phrased something in such a way that others think we are trolls, but c'est la vie.

    The point here is people who work an agenda on forums, and I think it was Fred who was spot on when he said that they seek to derail growing awareness (empowerment). If we all realised our true natures, the fear-based consensual reality would be no more. Think about it.

    The other agenda being worked is to introduce NWO friendly concepts, and to normalise them. They appeal mostly to the intellect (hence ego), and this is the area where most of us are weakest. They work in teams, engage in tag-team bullying, and divert, bump or bury threads as their agenda dictates. They seem to be on-line 24/7, because after all, it is their job.

    Self-empowerment, awareness, connection to higher consciousness, connection to bodily and supra-bodily energetics - these are really the only things that cause the NWO agenda to falter, and that is why certain agencies or agents bother disrupting things. The more they can stop us from discussing the real "meat and potatoes" of the issue, the stronger the paradigm of their masters gets.

    I feel sorry for them too. They are tools being used, and once they have been used, they will be discarded. There will be no place for them in the NWO, but I take no joy imagining their pain at their forthcoming betrayal.

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    Default Re: Deciphering Forum Trolls

    Quote Posted by danceblackcatdance (here)
    You might as well ask why they would be all over a site like YouTube... And it's pretty obvious that they are, crudely and blatantly trying to sway opinion.... Hearts and minds !
    the only trolls here and in the alternate media right now are republican plants, an offshoot of Fox news propaganda machine...

    you will see in every post they stop one sentence short of calling for a lynch mob...

    they come up with good spins, but all discredited knowing the source.

    their method works, look how many Birthers they had spinning all the way to the top...
    Coincidence or Destiny, it's all in the art of knowing.... III IIII charts ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

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    Default Re: Deciphering Forum Trolls

    I started this thread mainly for the thanks button

    I thought it would be interesting to see who thanked certain posts.

    So far so good.

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    Default Re: Deciphering Forum Trolls

    Quote Posted by gigha (here)
    I started this thread mainly for the thanks button

    I thought it would be interesting to see who thanked certain posts.

    So far so good.
    HUH???? I dont have the slightest clue what that could all mean or even what you are trying to figure out, what does the thanks a post gets from whom has to do with agreeing or disagreeing with the post?? For instance, it could mean thank you for your post i do not agree or dissagree but your effort to respond is apriciated, thank you for taking the time, it can mean a zillion other things too.
    Confusius say..........Investing in people will accumulate interest at a staggering rate

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    Default Re: Deciphering Forum Trolls

    I get trolled a lot on my blog and youtube channel. I'd say its about 50/50 between those with an agenda and those that simply like to insult and degrade others. I think a lot of points of view and older institutions like religions are taking as much of a beating as the NWO, Masons, and others becasue of the ready information platform of the internet. Its kind of like when the printing press was invented.

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    Default Re: Deciphering Forum Trolls

    There are trolls here at Project Avalon.
    How do you spot them? You can't (or it's not easy especially if your guard is down)
    This is the problem with the practice of trolling. It is used to great effect by marketing techniques to persuade and dissuade peoples views and opinions on the subject matter being considered.
    Unlike Youtube where comments through lack of moderation can be seen for what they are; insensitive, crass and derogatory, and is accepted by the YT community as "normal", "funny" and tolerated as the way "it is", easily ignored. I certainly don't bother with reading them as they are generally irrelevant to my purpose there.
    But here, changing the opinion of thousands of Avalon readers is different, even with the excellent moderation, tempers do fray with occasional insults being reprimanded and warnings issued.

    As the heavily sponsored Government NGOs, secular groups and anyone with an alternative agenda infiltrate these open house forums they have to be cute so as NOT to drive people away from the forum BUT to change your opinion with cleverly orchestrated differing opinions. They seldom work alone and they will become your friends.
    Yes you will believe them because more often than not those that succumb, do not research the truth about a given topic.

    Here within Avalon there are respected participants with thousands of "Thanks" and "Posts" who win hearts and minds by supporting the safe subjects and portraying themselves as supportive to the "little guy". Once they have won the apparent trust of many they will "STEER" individuals from their established belief system into a new paradigm of thought, creating confusion and swaying opinion from an accepted "NORM".

    There is no easy way to spot them so don't worry about it. If you want to see how it works, you can do your own investigation here at Avalon. There are a couple of methods I use.
    First, which I do not favour, is click on the persons name and trace back through previous posts posted by that individual. Means a lot of reading and quite frankly will bore the "tits of ya" and totally unnecessary.
    Secondly, which I do regularly, if comments made by an individual appear contentious to you, then go into the Avalon database and find all relevant topics relating to the topic you are currently discussing and quickly review the "PAST" comments made previously. Now you are armed with relevant research material and you can either go elsewhere to validate your point of view and return and impress us all or simply have confirmed your opinion by simple reference to the the previous thread already posted within the database.

    Remember, trolls are disinformationalists, misinformationalists and debunkers. DO NOT confuse with people who are simply mistaken. Protect and guide those weak of knowledge. Steer them to "GOOD" reference material.
    Trolls work as teams. Trolls may appear as "enemies" yet will join forces to sway opinion. It becomes very difficult to "spot" them.

    There is only one way to spot a troll, do your own research.

    The CIA database for terrorists is called al-Qaeda. The Avalon database should be called al-Billda. Check in the Avalon database earlier threads and see for yourself how certain "players" interact with each other with comments, thanks and posts. Remarkably insightful.

  30. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Snoweagle For This Post:

    Cartomancer (14th July 2012), corson (14th July 2012), gigha (15th July 2012)

  31. Link to Post #56
    Avalon Member music's Avatar
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    Default Re: Deciphering Forum Trolls

    Quote Posted by gigha (here)
    I started this thread mainly for the thanks button

    I thought it would be interesting to see who thanked certain posts.

    So far so good.
    The thanks button realistically has no point. It is prey to personailty judgement, agents know how to thank and not to thank to allay suspicion, many people can't be bothered, and many over thank because many thanks given in their stats may convey the idea that they are good people. Good thread though

  32. The Following User Says Thank You to music For This Post:

    gigha (22nd July 2012)

  33. Link to Post #57
    Canada Avalon Member goinghome2012's Avatar
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    Default Re: Deciphering Forum Trolls

    the troll is within all of us, since we are all one of this universe. All of us are trolling back home. The troll or shill is a blessing because they teach one of us how to love each other unconditionally and accept all that is.

    peace and blessings

  34. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to goinghome2012 For This Post:

    gigha (22nd July 2012), music (22nd July 2012)

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