Jordan Maxwell debunked

[Kristin]

Here is Jordan Maxwell, Paul Tice, and Alan Shaw's (all co-written) "That Old Religion". I down loaded a free copy that was available on line for any who are interested. I believe the work is excellent and well researched.

I think that it is great that Chris White is a strong defender of his faith. I do not however confuse defence of one's faith with truth, or confuse well thought out research with trying to uphold an Illuminati agenda. Jordan Maxwell has very strong Christian based beliefs himself.

I personally have a great respect for Jordan, but never thought him or anyone else was perfect by any means. I hope that through looking at both sides of the story with an open mind we can see also motivations by both parties are important here and there is an earnest desire to look at truth from both. One motivated by revealing history, the other motivated by faith and a desire to prove it.

A good read for any who are interested.
From the Heart,
Wormhole

http://dc366.4shared.com/download/Qy...71808-eb43d897

[Unified Serenity]

Posted by sigma6 (here)
got it, watched it, it's in the 'library', but how honest is it to focus on one video against his other 50 to a 100 out there? how 'truthful' is that? Have you guys watched any of those? You will soon see this is 'bigger' then just whether Jordan is perfect in his knowledge... We're talking some pretty fringe topics here... and I don't buy into what is 'politically correct' either, as that was a term used by communist and Edward Bernays... (see the Century of Self) This is called a gray area for good reason, a study on colour perception by Eastman Kodak (no less) showed that gray will change it's tint depending on the colours adjacent to it, an apt metaphor.... btw interesting experiences Awakened... meanwhile the rest of us are still 'awakening' (as still in process...)

I have watched a lot of Maxwell's videos and as I said in an earlier post, this one has me learning a few new things .. the one in the OP. It's not cherry picking, these are Maxwell's beliefs and he is sending a message of how stupid anyone is who thinks they know what the bible means, and he then brings up things that are factually just wrong to prove it. I am a stickler for being truthful and when you screw up you admit it. You don't ignore it or pretend you didn't say it. You fix it if you believe it's wrong. Show me where Maxwell now does not believe manna was a mushroom the people ate to talk to God. Show me where Maxwell now understands there was a King Shlomo and therefore his whole teaching on Solomon was wrong. Show me where any number of the facts brought up in that video are addressed by Maxwell and he admits his work was not quite accurate. I haven't found it yet and I am looking. I think he very much believes in the Theosophical religion and just as the other video posted about Cooper debunking Maxwell, we see the one and only times he wiggles out of being caught and agrees it's all symbolic and not actually Christians stealing an older religion and using it's terms and Jesus is the Sun I mean Son of God.

It's all telling on many levels. An honest person corrects their errors and thanks the person who pointed it out. A dishonest person avoids it, calls names, and accuses you of having a nefarious agenda because you dared to point it out.

[21CC]

I followed the assigned link of the term "[B]sociopath" in the OP to try to undertand what felt like slander. I decided that none of the criteria significantly (any more than to you or me) applied to J-Max.

[Unified Serenity]

Posted by 21CC (here)
I followed the assigned link of the term "[B]sociopath" in the OP to try to undertand what felt like slander. I decided that none of the criteria significantly (any more than to you or me) applied to J-Max.

I find pathological lying and blaming others very sociopathic. He exhibits many qualities on that list imho, but we can agree to disagree.

[MMA_Fan]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
... and was astounded when Hall gifted him his entire esoteric library upon his death.

Did he?

I read the biography of Hall a couple of weeks ago. I thought it was the PRS he gave it too?

I will have to borrow the book back and check.

I'd encourage anyone to read that book and listen to his talks, especially if they think Manly P. Hall was in any way a malevolent person.
Flawed like the rest of us, but not an evil man.

[Ceedub]

Posted by Unified Serenity (here)

Posted by 21CC (here)
I followed the assigned link of the term "[B]sociopath" in the OP to try to undertand what felt like slander. I decided that none of the criteria significantly (any more than to you or me) applied to J-Max.

I find pathological lying and blaming others very sociopathic. He exhibits many qualities on that list imho, but we can agree to disagree.

I concur with 21cc that the characterization of J-Max as "very sociopathic" to be slanderous if not backed up and illuminated a little further. Agreeing to disagree seems a bit of a cop out in light of the link you provided to the term sociopathic which included the DSM IV definition.

Diagnostic Criteria (DSM-IV)

1. Since the age of fifteen there has been a disregard for and violation of the right's of others, those right's considered normal by the local culture, as indicated by at least three of the following:
A. Repeated acts that could lead to arrest.
B. Conning for pleasure or profit, repeated lying, or the use of aliases.
C. Failure to plan ahead or being impulsive.
D. Repeated assaults on others.
E. Reckless when it comes to their or others safety.
F. Poor work behavior or failure to honor financial obligations.
G. Rationalizing the pain they inflict on others.

2. At least eighteen years in age.

3. Evidence of a Conduct Disorder, with its onset before the age of fifteen.

4. Symptoms not due to another mental disorder.

I respect your opinions but I do not agree to disagree as this is not just an opinion but a diagnosis and a slanderous one at that.

Respectfully CW

[21CC]

Posted by Unified Serenity (here)

Posted by 21CC (here)
I followed the assigned link of the term "[B]sociopath" in the OP to try to undertand what felt like slander. I decided that none of the criteria significantly (any more than to you or me) applied to J-Max.

I find pathological lying and blaming others very sociopathic. He exhibits many qualities on that list imho, but we can agree to disagree.

It takes consent and usually more than one individual to enter into an agreement, however. It is only now that I agree to an agreement.

[SEAM]

Somewhat off topic, but hopefully relevant.. One (Late) Professor Smiley of Cornell thinks Christ is Oil! I think a lot of this stuff is the old school text, which I happen to fully endorse.. no internet to cloud the mind... just good old fashion research...

Sorry I can't copy and paste:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/52358943/P...ALLY-KUNDALINI

[mountain_jim]

I also chafe at the assumptions made that anything associated with books and writings from The Theosophical Society is evil.

I can't recall in detail how much I read from Blavatsky and Hall years ago, as I don't own those books, borrowed what I did read....

But I still own Man, God, and The Universe, by I. K. Taimni, found great value in reading it, as well as these other smaller works from Quest Books:

The Glorious Presense - Ernest E. Wood (Vedanta Philosophy)
Esoteric Christianity - Annie Besant
Psychism and the Unconscious Mind - Theosophical Research Center

Quest Books are published by the Theosophical Society In America, a branch of a world organization dedicated to the promotion of brotherhood and the encouragement of the study of religion, philosophy, and science, to the end that man may better understand himself and his place in the universe. The Society stands for complete freedom of individual search and belief. Quest Books are offered as a contribution to man's search for truth.

[sigma6]

I find it interesting that Maxwell talks about the British Israel movement or Anglo-Israel movement as part of the NWO

Not sure whether your agreeing or disagreeing, but if they ain't then who is? (here I would reference Empire of the City - World Superstate, it is long but thorough and gives you a perspective of history from a Freemason point of view, a Freemason's daughter in fact.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=BwnWni9HLEY (note: it talks about 9/11, but that is just one angle, it explains in great detail the historical relationship between Isreal, Great Britain, the Vatican (Rome) and the origin of the 'Hebrews' which actually originated out of Egypt, thus the heavy emphasis of Egypt over the true originating culture of the last 6000 years (this cycle) which by all rights is the Sumerians, (but that a study of that culture would really blow the cover off the matrix... one possible reason for the attack on Bagdad and the looting of the Museum Saddam was going to present to the world...)

He then goes into the Illuminati New covenant is 500 years old. Word games are funny things.

Illuminati is an open term, anyone who is rich beyond the pleb legal system who is bent on maintaining the status quo might be termed an Illuminati, Freemasons, Vatican, Inner City of London (Freemasons) Washington DC, CIA Drug Cartel, Banker Cabalists, Ashakanazi Zionists Jews, etc...

My bible speaks of God making a New Covenant with Israel not like the first covenant which they broke which was the law written on stone tablets and their promise they broke to obey it, but a New covenant of the law written upon their hearts

To this all I can say is everyone has broken both covenants, as no one according to the Biblical creed is worthy, or capable or earning a status of worthiness, short of Jesus himself... (ie. we ALL fall short, we all need his 'sacrifice', forgiveness, etc) I have to admit that is a humbling thought... and if I had to look for a Roman manipulative angle assuming you have watched the vids I presented and realized they 'had' (at least at one point) totally controlled that book... the 'other interpretation' is that it takes self empowerment completely out of our hands... (as opposed to; your faith in the Lord, trust in him, etc... ) but that is by definition how the occult part works doesn't it, ie. don't look too close here, the sign says 'occult' ie. the 'Roman' word for hidden... let's face it the Bible is not an unequivocal source but may be purposely designed to be ambiguous so that anyone can superimpose a manifold number of interpretations, esoteric, or otherwise, and one of the biggest questions I got from the videos, if it was truly and purely the word of God, then why didn't he keep original copies intact?, as the earliest version was well after the council of Nicea, ie. about 400 AD, the source; - the Vatican, which has nothing to do with Jesus and what he taught, they have the ability to create documents that cannot be detected by experts since they have vallum and ink that dates farther back than a thousand years, so they can recreate any 'historical' documentation they want... these aren't just run of the mill videos, they will open the eyes of the the hardiest skeptic, I still don't want to believe them, but for now it's not really refutable...

that they would be as one by a unified heart relationship. So, we have plays on words here. America was called the New World, and I think there was a plan to use this as a means to gain power and control the world, but it does not negate the coming New World after the Millennial kingdom as prophesied in the bible.

I think this is proof, how the the NWO (in this case the Freemasons) use the Bible as their 'playbook'... could there be a higher master plan... 'God' only knows... (and those who believe in the unblemished book of the Bible)

Sometimes it's hard to break down where Maxwell really stands. The church once taken over by the Roman's incorporated the old symbolism and Babylonian methods, but that does not mean the foundation which Jesus laid was a take off on the Babylonian system.

Again according to Erhman, and the other vid, the 'church' wasn't taken over by the Romans, it was flat out created by the Romans...

Another hard core archeological evidence of this is Simcha Jacobovici's "Secrets of Christianity/Decoding the Ancients"
https://youtube.com/watch?v=WD0eSqFJ7J4
We can't have it both ways, ie. it's either the perfectly recorded unblemished word of God or it was written and crafted by the Roman Vatican with its vast resources and army of scholars. It's one or the other... whether Lucifer is responsible or not, and Jesus himself never wrote a book of the Bible, nor did he command anyone to write or memorialize the gospels in his name.

It just means Lucifer is pretty smart and he tries to twist anything of God here on earth and he's pretty darn good at it. Jesus also said he came to gather back the lost sheep of the house of Israel who had been scattered amongst the nations. He was not talking about Judah. Judah knew exactly who they were, and they were not lost. It was the other ten tribes who God divorced and sent over the caucus mountains who became known as Caucasians. It is a historical fact that these tribes did this. Now are all caucasians Israel? I don't know that. I do know that history proves out they went to Scotland, Ireland, England, and other areas of Europe. My point is that Maxwell does not like this idea, and he throws it out as some NWO agenda and I do not see that in their system. The NWO is going to be a one world system of government, religion, and control with Lucifer as it's shining one. His children, the Kenites, hate Israel, and there is no way they would work with Israel. Oh, they will use Israel, but work with them? No, we are as stupid and stiff necked as we were all those thousands of years ago.

That may be, it is just as valid an interpretation as any other... but I am sure many may find things to question just as any other... I am going to predict if you truly follow the 'evidence' with an open mind, apart from what your 'faith' instructs you after watching Empire of the City, Bart Ehrman, The Empty Tomb, and there are just so many others, pointing to how 'borrowed' the narrative of the Bible is... (Sumerian reference (circa 4000 BC) to 'Eden1' and 'Adamu' you will have some serious questions... I guess what I am saying is let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater... in either case, as there is more that we don't know then what we do, more often then not.

welcome to the Matrix... ("why do my eyes hurt?... because you have never used them before...")

[Carmen]

I must say, Unified Serenity, your thread has opened up a very lively and interesting discussion, which is great. Theosophy was my first introduction to things esoteric. Most of it I couldn't understand at the time but I found it fascinating. I have Manly P Hall's 'Secret Teachings of All Ages', and I really treasure this book. I've said in other threads that those who research, live and experience the esoteric sciences then share it through their writing are to be applauded. There is much wisdom to be gained and be inspired by. It's very easy to sit back and critisize those who put themselves out there. I don't care who they are or whether I like them or not, they are out there doing it. They are the 'Spiritual Warriors', warts and all. To me, they are to be admired. It can't be easy being subject to attack and ridicule when one is doing ones best to make a difference, to bring some light to a very controlled world.

[Unified Serenity]

I have read quite a bit of Theosophical works since about the 80's as I was very interested in it. My point in discussing what the video shares, is it's a little hard to do that without having watched it to see how JM is dealing with various topics. Those who don't know the info can't talk about it at all based on what he is saying. I have read a lot within alternative systems, and it seems some have an idea about me not founded in any facts whatsoever, but just emotional reactions. I find that typical on many forums where people dont wish to exam facts, but just shut down anyone who would think critically about a topic.

[Unified Serenity]

Posted by Carmen (here)
I must say, Unified Serenity, your thread has opened up a very lively and interesting discussion, which is great. Theosophy was my first introduction to things esoteric. Most of it I couldn't understand at the time but I found it fascinating. I have Manly P Hall's 'Secret Teachings of All Ages', and I really treasure this book. I've said in other threads that those who research, live and experience the esoteric sciences then share it through their writing are to be applauded. There is much wisdom to be gained and be inspired by. It's very easy to sit back and critisize those who put themselves out there. I don't care who they are or whether I like them or not, they are out there doing it. They are the 'Spiritual Warriors', warts and all. To me, they are to be admired. It can't be easy being subject to attack and ridicule when one is doing ones best to make a difference, to bring some light to a very controlled world.

I assume nothing, and others should not either. I look at the facts, weigh the evidence, and see if it lines up with the truth of their teachings. I don't quite understand this apparent need to assume one person is a "spiritual warrior" and because someone looks into the teachings and such they must not be or something akin to just ridiculing for the sake of it. If it does not ring true to you fine, but you really dont know anything about me carmen. I also don't equate misleading others through a message they like to hear as bringing light, but then again, many here seem to think Lucifer is a wonderful light messenger. That's their right, but we obviously see things very differently.

[Carmen]

Hmm! I have watched the first ten minutes of the video Uniified Serenity, and apart from the opening statements that what you put out you get back, the rest is a load of cobblers (lies). I will watch the rest this evening. Going by the first ten minutes, what he is saying is deeply flawed. So, I am inclined to agree with you. But, I still say that putting themselves out there is courageous.

My understanding of the old testament is different to many anyway. Jehovah, who led the children of Israel, for forty ruddy years!!, was a terranical god with a small 'g'. He was a misogamistic arsehole and not the God that I recognise.

[Cartomancer]

CHRIS WHITE DEBUNKED

I just listened to the Chris White's video again. That reminded me of something you would see on the CBN network or something. I kept expecting Jimmy Swaggert, Pat Roberts or Ernest Angley to chime in at any moment. I have to say that he is just as wrapped up in the wrong kind of dogma as many of the people that have been heavily criticized here lately. He isn't being objective about anything. His entire purpose is prove that his religion is better than anyone else's and that what ever he says is right etc. And, oh yeah, you are a Satan worshiper if you don't agree with him. Just the fact that he needs to value his faith by attacking someone else with a different view is very telling. If we have to see criticism of Maxwell lets at least see an rational unbiased one instead of a bunch of fear based I'm better than you crap.

I think its kind of funny. The ground Chris White is standing on is a quaking fear of made up b.s. that he can't prove empirically at all any more than Maxwell can prove his truth. Its all about faith. You just have to believe in it no matter how flimsy the evidence is or how long the after the fact the book was written and by whom? After they exterminated all of the people who worshiped Christ before Rome adapted it. First they kill them all and then realize their religion is just the thing for them. Then they consistently exterminated any opposing views that weren't of any use to them for the next 2000 years?

This is who you want to trust for the word? If you dig Christ you need to dig in and think about what the man's life was beyond all of the hype. You can almost guarantee that Christ's life was radically different than that portrayed in any book.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Did you know?

There is a difference between debunking a person and debunking their beliefs or research.

Now you know. And knowing is half the battle

[Jeffrey]

How do you know what portion of Blavatsky's material is channelled versus researched?

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by A.D. (here)
long time listener, first time caller...

Welcome. Good to have you here!

Posted by A.D. (here)
To Bill... Manly Hall gave Jordan a copy of a set of books, not his entire esoteric library... the library is a part of the school.

Thanks for that input. Here's the transcript from the Sept 2009 Camelot interview of Jordan -- one of Kerry's very best. It can be seen how I misunderstood that Hall had given Jordan his whole library. (The gift does seem to have been rather more than "a copy of a set of books", though!)

http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/jo...erview_en.html

JM: Manly Palmer Hall, I believe, was one of the finest and most dearest men I have ever met in my life. He was not only charming, an extraordinarily brilliant mind, but he was one of the most decent and beautiful people that I have ever, personally, have ever met.

Manly Palmer Hall was an extraordinary teacher. He never promoted anything. He merely educated people, as: This is where this came from; this is where that came from; this is what that word means. So he was an educator. People have called him all kinds of names because he was a Mason. I knew him personally. I’ve been to his home. When he died, he left me a beautiful gift – all of his research journals, he left to me.

KC: That’s amazing.

JM: I was shocked when I got a phone call from the Philosophical Research Society in Los Angeles and Obadiah Harris, the president at that time, said: Mr. Hall wanted you to have something when he passed away.

And I said... "What is it?" I was in San Diego.

And he said... "I’m not going to tell you. Just come pick it up." So I drove up that day to Los Angeles from San Diego and it was all of the research journals of Manly Palmer Hall, he gave to me. And I consider that to be a monumental gift from a very powerful man.

KC: Did you find some clues there to follow out? [laughs]

JM: Tons of stuff there.

KC: Okay.

JM: Manly Palmer Hall, as I said, was one of the greatest teachers the world has ever known. In my humble opinion, I don’t think there’s ever been in any era of time a man to come close to what Manly Palmer Hall was able to do. Anyone who has an open mind – and of course, your mind is like a parachute: it doesn’t work if it’s not open – anyone who is intellectually honest, which you don’t find very much -- intellectually honest with an open mind, mature and intelligent person looking at the work of Manly Palmer Hall would have to say this is one of the greatest men that ever lived.

I don’t know how many... maybe 70 or 80 books on esoteric subjects of the whole world; over 46 sets of lectures, like six 90-minute audio lectures of 46 esoteric subjects of the world.

KC: Wonderful.

JM: Incredible. Plus thousands of lectures. Incidentally, I have everything he ever did. Every lecture he ever did I have, digitized. Monumental work. But he was a personal friend of mine and I loved him dearly. I’m saying this because there are so many people who put him down because he was a Mason. He was a wonderful teacher, a brilliant man, to which his detractors could not even hold a candle.

[Lazlo]

Posted by Cartomancer (here)
Jordan Maxwell has all kinds of useful information and ideas. He does kind of espouse a "Zeitgeist" (movie) kind of point of view about the creation of all faiths and belief systems including Christianity.

He should espouse those views as the Camelot interview says that the movie was entirely based on his work


http://projectcamelot.org/lang/en/jo...erview_en.html

DW: Where would the truth movement be without you? Specifically, Zeitgeist is a movie that was in the top five most-viewed on Google Video for like a year at least and I would like the Project Camelot viewers to be apprised of the situation in regards to your involvement with Zeitgeist because it seems like Management, as I call them, put you in a position in which the whole conspiracy theory movement wouldn’t be anywhere near what it is now if it wasn’t for your influence.

JM: Yes, Zeitgeist is a two-hour movie made by a guy named Peter Joseph in New York. I didn’t know anything about it, but Peter Joseph produced a two-hour video and the last that we heard... because on Zeitgeist it was one of the first times Google pulled the counter off of something that’s on Google Video? Usually it would have a counter, how many people have seen this video. They pulled the counter. They pulled it, I think it was at 28 million when they pulled it and that was like a year-and-a-half ago.

KC: And that’s based all on your work, isn’t it?

JM: All of it was based on my work. Jeff Rense had Peter Joseph... and you can go to my website, www.Jordanmaxwell.com , and go to the audio/video page. One of the first entries is a big banner saying Zeitgeist Interview, and it’s only about five minutes long.

But Jeff Rense interviewed Peter Joseph about Zeitgeist and talked about how, you know, they pulled the counter a year-and-a-half ago at 28 million and it’s probably more than 50 million now.

BUT HE SAID: Why did you make this video?

AND HE [Peter Joseph] SAID: Because the whole thing was Jordan Maxwell’s work. I was listening to him; I’ve been following his work and I just decided since he hasn’t done anything, I will.

So he put all of my work together on religion, ancient theology, the Federal Reserve, banking, and 9/11 and all that nonsense, and put it all together into a two-hour video called Zeitgeist, which I am told by people...

My friends in Hollywood (and I’ve lived in Hollywood for 48 years) my friends have said that if they had 28 million and they pulled it off a year ago; probably seen by 50 million – that’s a very good showing in Hollywood! If you can get 50 million people watching something that represents you, that’s pretty heady stuff in Hollywood.

KC: Absolutely.

[Snoweagle]

When Eric Von Daniken released Chariots of the Gods in the 1970s to the world, who could have anticipated the amazing interest across all levels of the community to the startling revelations made about gods, angles and aliens. We loved it. Every little snippet of archaeological discovery was chocolate brownies smothered in strawberry ice cream. We couldn't get enough:-)
Most of it was later researched or hidden. Today we face the same problems that Von Daniken had. What real truth known is hidden deeply away from the public and what is portrayed as truth requires backward engineering through the gamut of idolatrous scriptures, misconstrued translation and the unverifiable.

So attacking Jordan Maxwell serves no purpose other than to confirm that the alternative media will be heavily influenced by misinformants, disinformationalists and unemployed writers:-) And lookee here, debunk heaven, everyone else is wrong except the those that quote the book of evil, the bible.
Whether he is right or wrong is immaterial. He introduced thousands, nay millions, to another world of research to topics many of us would not have normally ventured. His success is immeasurable. Am overjoyed that he has been attacked by this "debunk" claim, which has more value these days than the Nobel prize. (valueless when Obama (did Gore get it as well, or did Gore invent that as well) is awarded)
You see, the bottom line is, do your own research. Jordan Maxwell will tell you not to believe him but to do your own investigation and based on that, United Serenity, you have a fail. If you had presented alternative information contrary to current beliefs then state your case and we would assimilate and review collectively here within this fine forum. But you didn't; choosing to present an orchestrated commissioned piece of secular garbage, I suspect professionally prepared, to discredit an established and respected orator who lifted the veil of secrecy impacting the style of our governance and therefore us.

So now I would like to raise the "spirits" with the voice of Avalonians in a sing song as Jordan Maxwell is "Simply the Best" and United Serenity, you're not:-)

I call you, when I need you, my hearts on fire
You come to me, Come to me, wild and wild

You come to me, give me everything I need
Give me a lifetime of promises and a world of dreams
Speak the language of love like you know what it means
And it cant be wrong, take me heart and make it strong, Jordan

You're simply the best, better than all the rest, better than anyone, anyone I've ever met
I'm stuck on your heart, I hang on every word you say
Tear us apart? ...Oh Jordan I would rather be dead

In your heart I see the start of every night and day,
In you eyes, I get lost, I get washed away
Just as long as I'm here in your qualms, I could be in no better place . . .

You're simply the best, better than all the rest, better than anyone, anyone I've ever met
I'm stuck on your heart, I hang on every word you say
Tear us apart? ...Oh Jordan I would rather be dead

It's the time you leave me I start losing control, you're walking away with my heart and soul
I can feel you even when I'm alone, oh Jordan don't let go!

And your the best, better than all the rest
better than anyone, anyone
I've ever met!
I'm stuck on your heart, I hang on every word you say
Tear us apart? Jordan, I would rather be dead
ohh you're the best!
(Ike & Tina Turner & The Ikettes) (freaky how Ike and Tina were able to facilitate Jordans name into the verses, maybe David Wilcocks dreams should have seen this, whadya say US?)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=dUvPf_zuySA