The Silent Trip: Two Selves and Induced Religious Experiences

[ivaray]

I would like to share this incredible lecture that focuses on interpreting deeper connections between Neuroscience, understanding of the self, enlightenment, spirituality, and religion. Todd Murphy is an excellent lecturer on the subject while working with Michael A. Persinger. Before over twenty years ago Michael A Persigner began experiments that would induce altered states of consciousness and religious experiences in subjects observed by famous “God Helmet”—the device that sends to a brain low electromagnetic frequencies that affect human brain functioning.

I accept Murphy’s thorough analyzes as much better than that of Michael A. Presinger’s when comes to the comparative analysis between science and religion. Also, in this lecture Todd Murphy explains in a much better way the intentions and scientific methods of Michael A. Persinger and his “God Helmet.” Being profoundly interested in this topic I hope I will find some valuable discussions. There is one part of the lecture that freaks me totally out, where Todd Murphy talks about the functioning of the two brain hemispheres, where he points that a sense of the self is constructed of the “silent you” (the right hemisphere of the brain), which is like a shadow matrix of the real sensed self that you express, know, or experience. I always knew that I am the one that never speaks, and not the one that everybody meets. Just joking, but this part makes me wonder how dualistic we are by our very nature....
I appreciate any of your responses on this subject.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqrpKUTMXgY

Todd Murphy's website: http://www.shaktitechnology.com/

Todd Murphy's book Sacred Pathways: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007Y3TVSS

[Kano]

Sounds interesting. I look forward to listening. Thanks for sharing.

[bearcow]

At the 43 minute mark he says that the sense of self is a hallucination, well as much as a unconscious astral projection is a hallucination, he is correct.

he says that the sense of self cannot re-incarnate, and in the vast majority of cases this functionally accurate.

however, it is possible for the self to find a way to maintain it's structural integrity/identity without the aid of a body.

this is the first stage of immortality.

[ivaray]

Posted by bearcow (here)
At the 43 minute mark he says that the sense of self is a hallucination, well as much as a unconscious astral projection is a hallucination, he is correct.

he says that the sense of self cannot re-incarnate, and in the vast majority of cases this functionally accurate.

however, it is possible for the self to find a way to maintain it's structural integrity/identity without the aid of a body.

this is the first stage of immortality.

I agree w/th your observation that the sense of self is a hallucination, often known in Philosophy of the East and the West as disappearing self. What is the self? It is an evolutionary mechanism that functions as the representation of the unity of a consciousness and a self-protective cognitive system--the illusionary border between the world and other beings that we are primarily connected with in a much deeper sense. The habitual self definitely is a hallucination and majority of people "wear," so to speak, the self that is imposed by the dominant, affirmative side of the brain--the constructed and learned self, a habit. Still, the silent self (the right hemisphere in touch with the right amygdale) doesn't accept easily constraints of the constructed self, and there is a need in the life-time to open this closed self and connect the true consciousness with the world and others in a more unique way, expressed in this presentation as enlightenment. As you could see there are various paths to enlightenment--from the sudden and subtle to the slow and more controlled. Accordingly, I could agree that an unconscious astral projection is a hallucination, but it is on its way once when is imprinted in this silent inner, non-verbal world. As far as I have understood the lecture, anything that is stored in this deep silent sea of our brain it has an opportunity to blossom, explode, or gradually open itself for the enlightenment.

Murphy has another lecture on reincarnation that I found to be equally interesting as this one, check it out:

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2uZkPzJrZc

[Arrowwind]

I will be listening to this above one on reincarnation... but cant today. In general does murphy believe and support reincarnation or is he trying to negate it?

[sdv]

I discovered the work of Todd Murphy about two years' ago, and was fascinated. You can get the whole lecture series here http://www.shaktitechnology.com/, which is well worth watching, plus he has a number of interesting articles (scroll down the page to find the presentations and articles). There's a spiritual aptitude test at the top of the page as well.

Yes, Todd Murphy does believe in reincarnation and has studied NDEs in Thailand. His hypothesis about reincarnation being an evolutionary imperative is well worth considering (and he explains it very well), but then I sometimes wonder if humankind as a whole is learning any kinds of lessons at all as wars, poverty, deceit et al. continue, generation after generation!

I learnt a lot about my brain, and gained an understanding of my experiences of a 'sensed presence', by listening to these series of lectures and got past a lot of fear of the unknown. Highly recommended!

[ivaray]

Posted by sdv (here)
I discovered the work of Todd Murphy about two years' ago, and was fascinated. You can get the whole lecture series here http://www.shaktitechnology.com/, which is well worth watching, plus he has a number of interesting articles (scroll down the page to find the presentations and articles). There's a spiritual aptitude test at the top of the page as well.

Yes, Todd Murphy does believe in reincarnation and has studied NDEs in Thailand. His hypothesis about reincarnation being an evolutionary imperative is well worth considering (and he explains it very well), but then I sometimes wonder if humankind as a whole is learning any kinds of lessons at all as wars, poverty, deceit et al. continue, generation after generation!

I learnt a lot about my brain, and gained an understanding of my experiences of a 'sensed presence', by listening to these series of lectures and got past a lot of fear of the unknown. Highly recommended!

Thanks so much for sharing all info.:-)

Yes, I was following Murphy's work and scholarship for the last year or so. The peer review article he published in 2001 "The Structure and Function of Near Death Experiences: An Algorithmic Reincarnation Hypothesis" was an important start for his theory. I like that he has an ability to apply with ease interdisciplinary approaches to neuroscience. I am not sure that Murphy believes in reincarnation, but his assumption is that reincarnation could be scientifically proven as an evolutionary step of humanity. Do not take my statement wrong: Murphy is the scientist, and no matter what the scientists personally believe, those believes are put aside when they work on the scientific theory or hypothesis.

Looking back to my notes I found very inspiring that he connects five stages of near-death experience -- out of body experience, viewing the body, tunnel--light experience, review life, and finally, multiple states of consciousness transformation with traditional laws of karma and reincarnation. His major point is that besides DNA transformation of genetic codes to another persen, generation, there is a possibility of emanating (he even says "broadcasting") one's engender experiences and behaviors to another being (embryo) through the Earth's magnetic field and electric activity of the body and the brain. Also, he points that this "broadcasting" can be compared to the holographic nature of the brain.

Thanks for the comment. One of the best lectures and the most inspiring to me is the one of Eastern spiritual practices--subtle body, yoga, Kundalini, this specific lecture was my first discovery of his work:-):

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8GIKT8TY1k

[sigma6]

caught my attention right on the name Michael A. Persinger... not sure if he is a 'good guy' or a 'bad guy'... but he is certainly on the cutting edge... will be checking this out, thanks

update: Excellent wicked lecture!, much like Persinger's, I want to save them all! I knew about the idea that there are two literal 'consciousnesses' this was ingeniously discovered by the 'split brain' experiments done in the late 60s (great research in that decade) Back then people who suffered from seizures had their corpus callosum cut to physically separate the connection between the left and right hemispheres. Although this was effective in reducing seizures, it was discovered under certain conditions that there was a 'separate' consciousness, doing very specific behaviours, that the person themselves were not (consciously) aware of !

Another great book I happened upon, I will never forget, I randomly walked into a bookstore in a mall and picked it out by its cover (lol) was Julian Janes - The Origin of Consciousness In the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, I didn't know what I had in my hands, but I was soon totally engrossed in this book, absolutely stunning, in it, he too talked about the cross communication between the hemispheres...

Mind you it still doesn't explain everything, I have always questioned why Persinger never asks (or he may have) the question why we would have an organ like the pineal gland in the first place, something which functions biologically like a human eye in the center of the brain, that has the capacity to act as a sender and receiver of electro-magnetic information by design...?

Although he can 'stimulate' certain experiences, what about experiences where detailed and specific information is derived that is clearly beyond the capacity of a person to creatively just make up? If there are other entities in other dimensions, would not this human 'modality' be an ideal 'medium' for them to enter into as a 'meeting' place for communication? According to some prominent sources who have experimented with this 'modality', ayahuasca for ex, the experience and quality of information was just too complex and detailed to be their own 'imagination'

To his credit Persinger does readily admit to psychic phenomena, he was one of the pioneers who worked with Ingo Swan and even provides a model of how it functions... ahhhh.... is this the age of revealing? sometimes it sure feels like it... hanging on for the ride...

[ivaray]

Posted by sigma6 (here)
caught my attention right on the name Michael A. Persinger... not sure if he is a 'good guy' or a 'bad guy'... but he is certainly on the cutting edge... will be checking this out, thanks

update: Excellent wicked lecture!, much like Persinger's, I want to save them all! I knew about the idea that there are two literal 'consciousnesses' this was ingeniously discovered by the 'split brain' experiments done in the late 60s (great research in that decade) Back then people who suffered from seizures had their corpus callosum cut to physically separate the connection between the left and right hemispheres. Although this was effective in reducing seizures, it was discovered under certain conditions that there was a 'separate' consciousness, doing very specific behaviours, that the person themselves were not (consciously) aware of !

Another great book I happened upon, I will never forget, I randomly walked into a bookstore in a mall and picked it out by its cover (lol) was Julian Janes - The Origin of Consciousness In the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, I didn't know what I had in my hands, but I was soon totally engrossed in this book, absolutely stunning, in it, he too talked about the cross communication between the hemispheres...

Mind you it still doesn't explain everything, I have always questioned why Persinger never asks (or he may have) the question why we would have an organ like the pineal gland in the first place, something which functions biologically like a human eye in the center of the brain, that has the capacity to act as a sender and receiver of electro-magnetic information by design...?

Although he can 'stimulate' certain experiences, what about experiences where detailed and specific information is derived that is clearly beyond the capacity of a person to creatively just make up? If there are other entities in other dimensions, would not this human 'modality' be an ideal 'medium' for them to enter into as a 'meeting' place for communication? According to some prominent sources who have experimented with this 'modality', ayahuasca for ex, the experience and quality of information was just too complex and detailed to be their own 'imagination'

To his credit Persinger does readily admit to psychic phenomena, he was one of the pioneers who worked with Ingo Swan and even provides a model of how it functions... ahhhh.... is this the age of revealing? sometimes it sure feels like it... hanging on for the ride...

Persinger has always perceived religion or influence of the higher power to be a psychological/evolutionary anomaly. His experiments has focused to prove that the "real" religious experiences such as "seeing" superhuman or supernatural beings, feeling of being united with all other dimensions of reality (meditations) come from a short term seizures on the brain, that could be instigated by the brain kindling, or transformation of energy to the frontal lobes, and he calls those experiences as "complex partial epileptic-like signs." In his research he applied the medical equipment that was usually used to help seizure or schizophrenic patients, TMS (Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation) and was using brain imaging technology (PET, fMRI) with limits--he would use only images of patients who experienced seizures and he compared those to induced effects of TMS to persons who underwent experiments. TMS could produce vibrations, out-of-body experiences, and other religious like experiences. Persinger research specifically focused on an idea that right handed men or left handed women are more prompt to experience hearing voices than to experience spatial images . He thought that hearing voices has an enormous effect to a person, than to see images that a person may interpret as religious. If you know anything about voice to skull technology--a possibility to project to people's minds a sensation of hearing voices--Persinger's research seems to be in some sort of a connection to this cutting edge technology. There are lots of scientific objections to his research to be very reductionist in application of technology and drawing final results, the best book I read on this topic: Anne L.C. Runehov, Sacred of Neural: The Potential of Neuroscience to Explain Religious Experience, 2007. One of original Persinger's quotes from 1993 research says that the only idfference between the dissociative, creative poet and the patient with a chronic left temporal lobe is that the poet can "conceptualize about the universe or God and remain intact," whilst "the shizophrenic confuses and loses the boundaries..." Hmmm. I wonder, should we all be the same? How long it will take that the "genius of human imagination" is interpreted as an anomaly that should be sanctioned or corrected?!

Here is where Persinger's research focus is today, No More Secrets, amazing:

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l6VPpDublg

Todd Murphy's research is more focused on religious experiences, understanding all of them authentically and interpreting them scientifically, rather than strictly inducing experiences that are difficult to be scientifically classified or even proven as religious. What is the difference between ESP and religious experience for Persinger? He simply interprets induced ESP experiences as religious when he wants to make a relevant point for this neurotheology, and from the comparative religion studies point of view, this is a pure reductionism with a shaky methodology.

[Arrowwind]

This is Todd Murphys website. Could someone go there and click on "email" and get his address for me? My computer is not set up to do it.
thanks.
http://www.shaktitechnology.com/

[Eram]

Posted by Arrowwind (here)
This is Todd Murphys website. Could someone go there and click on "email" and get his address for me? My computer is not set up to do it.
thanks.
http://www.shaktitechnology.com/

brainsci@jps.net

cheers!

[heyokah]

brainsci@jps.net

oops.... too late