*ALL* Religion should die!

[Arpheus]

I love you Serenity you are a wonderful human being!!

[Unified Serenity]

Posted by Arpheus (here)
I love you Serenity you are a wonderful human being!!

Thank you Arpheus, that is very kind of you to say. You are a wonderful human being as well, and I do look forward to hearing what you have to say when you are ready to share it.

[Feren]

I don't like religion either, and by religon I mean organized belief systems that claim to be absolutely true. I dislike anything that gives truth for granted (even science does it sometimes). But the fact that I dislike religions doesn't mean that I believe they SHOULD dissapear. I don't believe they should disappear as well as I don't believe they sheould continue to exist. Why would I believe one thing or the other? I only find life as necessary; if in someone's vision religion is a medium of life, so be it, not my choice.
Maybe we have to stop fighting "evil" actively and just do good.

[Arrowwind]

Posted by watchZEITGEISTnow (here)
That's right - it is a lie, a con. A control system.

Jesus lived in my belief. Jesus was a cool cat, and who knows what really happened there? One thing is for sure Jesus was wholly (npi) opposed to religion.

You have been conned. There are some nice parts in scripts - some very wise and loving teachings. That is where it ends. It has been outdated for so long, and has caused just about every war invented (or by proxy) - and it needs to end!

Believe in what you want - go for it, just don't tell me your belief is any better than Freds, or Sally's. If someone pushes the agenda of recruiting for religion, they should be exposed.

Common ground is what I believe can bridge the gap - love, no war, and world peace for example. I guess I'm still trying how to deal with a blatant brainwashed blind follower that wants to inch their way in because they believe they are doing a god's work.

Avalon should be 100% against religions. Avalon should be 100% for spirituality.

*off soap box* (for a few minutes anyway)

So you are a Zeitgeist supporter? I wonder how after supporting that movie you could even insinuate that Jesus was a real "cat"

Zeigeist attempts to undermind the supposed "true history" of Jesus. I accept most of its premise as close to the truth.
But I agree with what United Serenity has presented, without religion we would likely be in a much more dire situation than we are currently in
for man has had little faith in himself to be spiritually independent. Its a big scary world after all and most dont know that all the answers lie within
so they perpetually look outside of themselves to create a wall of protection.

But I also feel that we are collectivley on the precipus of jumping off the religion cliff into the wonderful and unknown void of human exploration into our own self revelation.
When we do that we start to realize that god is not outside of ourselves but with in us and the Jesus manefestion is a potential for all. We are all the "sons of man" and hence hold the potential reality to be living gods. Even some Catholic priests are saying stuff like this now.

In that bible they say "these things you shall do and even greater things"
I believe that. I have seen it and experienced it.
Its hard to get there
within the confines of religion and all is rules and laws,
all its shame and admonishment
all its tendency to make you wrong.

You have to leap into your freedom.

If you leap into your freedom
it doesnt matter anymore what religion you belong to
for you see the truth in them all
and you see the prision of them all
and the world of spirital doctrine
and rules and laws no longer has a hold on you
and you clearly see the bondage that others reside in

yet you stay where you are
for you realize that the bondage is the same
no matter where you look, no matter what,
so you start your work from where you reside,
within your own religion
within yoiur own self,
right where you stand
where you have always stood
for it really doesnt matter
to a free person
what type of prison they appear to stand in
for all prisons are illusion
once freedom is yours.

[D-Day]

Questions are great, answers... even more so

1. Would human beings still be SPIRITual if religious systems/constructs had never been "introduced" into our society/culture?

2. Do externally created systems/constructs [like religions] truly help human beings to become more SPIRITual?

3. How is religion relevant/necessary/useful/productive in terms of modern day human society/culture?

4. Do religious systems/constructs have the potential to inadvertently [or intentionally] diminish an individual's state of self awareness, self authority, or personal sovereignty?

5. Is it possible that today's religions are little more than human constructs designed and implemented by our controllers for the purpose of programming, conditioning, manipulating, influencing, and/or controlling large segments of the human collective consciousness?

6. Historically, how has humanity benefited from the existence of religious systems/constructs?

7. Alternatively, how much has humanity suffered either directly or indirectly as a result of the existence of religious systems/constructs?

8. Who/what was responsible for creating the religions that currently exist in modern human society/culture?

9. Historically, thinking in terms of power/control/influence, who has benefited most from the existence of religious constructs, systems, ideologies, extremism, and fundamentalism?

[heyokah]

Man has an intrinsic knowing there is a Divine source. Man instinctively asks, "Where did I come from" or "Why am I here". That won't disappear because religion is gone

Thanks Unified Serenity.

I've not been brought-up with any religion, nor have I had the urge to belong to any.
So I can read the Bible with an open mind, as well as books on Humanism, Sjamanism, Buddhism or Native American wisdom, to mention a few.

I don't feel anything for organized Religions. as they have been the cause of too much hate, fear and deaths. Christians, Jews and Muslims, they are and will always be fighting each-other.
Who's god is the best (or the least evil) one ?.....

Does this make me an atheist?

The God of Unconditional Love, the Cathars called him/her Amor, has been "weeping" for ages. Hardly anybody listens.
It almost seems Amor doesn't live here anymore.

The Creator God lives through me though .... without Religion ....just as he/she lives through all and everything.

It seems that Religions have their own gods.

[Beren]

Posted by Arrowwind (here)

Posted by watchZEITGEISTnow (here)
That's right - it is a lie, a con. A control system.

Jesus lived in my belief. Jesus was a cool cat, and who knows what really happened there? One thing is for sure Jesus was wholly (npi) opposed to religion.

You have been conned. There are some nice parts in scripts - some very wise and loving teachings. That is where it ends. It has been outdated for so long, and has caused just about every war invented (or by proxy) - and it needs to end!

Believe in what you want - go for it, just don't tell me your belief is any better than Freds, or Sally's. If someone pushes the agenda of recruiting for religion, they should be exposed.

Common ground is what I believe can bridge the gap - love, no war, and world peace for example. I guess I'm still trying how to deal with a blatant brainwashed blind follower that wants to inch their way in because they believe they are doing a god's work.

Avalon should be 100% against religions. Avalon should be 100% for spirituality.

*off soap box* (for a few minutes anyway)

So you are a Zeitgeist supporter? I wonder how after supporting that movie you could even insinuate that Jesus was a real "cat"

Zeigeist attempts to undermind the supposed "true history" of Jesus. I accept most of its premise as close to the truth.
But I agree with what United Serenity has presented, without religion we would likely be in a much more dire situation than we are currently in
for man has had little faith in himself to be spiritually independent. Its a big scary world after all and most dont know that all the answers lie within
so they perpetually look outside of themselves to create a wall of protection.

But I also feel that we are collectivley on the precipus of jumping off the religion cliff into the wonderful and unknown void of human exploration into our own self revelation.
When we do that we start to realize that god is not outside of ourselves but with in us and the Jesus manefestion is a potential for all. We are all the "sons of man" and hence hold the potential reality to be living gods. Even some Catholic priests are saying stuff like this now.

In that bible they say "these things you shall do and even greater things"
I believe that. I have seen it and experienced it.
Its hard to get there
within the confines of religion and all is rules and laws,
all its shame and admonishment
all its tendency to make you wrong.

You have to leap into your freedom.

If you leap into your freedom
it doesnt matter anymore what religion you belong to
for you see the truth in them all
and you see the prision of them all
and the world of spirital doctrine
and rules and laws no longer has a hold on you
and you clearly see the bondage that others reside in

yet you stay where you are
for you realize that the bondage is the same
no matter where you look, no matter what,
so you start your work from where you reside,
within your own religion
within yoiur own self,
right where you stand
where you have always stood
for it really doesnt matter
to a free person
what type of prison they appear to stand in
for all prisons are illusion
once freedom is yours.

Bless you for your words!

These are my soul's words and knowledge too.
This is what I am speaking on every thread that I write in.

I get sometimes a brand or a stamp as religionist or other terms but my message is always simple, freedom in God and Christ.
Anyways we're called to be free but it depends upon our choice...

[9ofClubs]

Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)

Your post displays a tremendous ignorance.

If Jesus was so opposed to religion, why did he tell Peter that he would found his church upon him?

There have been many wars fought over the Abrahamic religions. That only covers 54% of the worlds religious believers. When was the last Buddhist, Taoist, or Hindu Crusade? I don't remember the great Shinto war. You are lumping all religions into your very narrow experience.

Most religions do not espouse to be better than others and are not evangelical. Again, it sounds like you are speaking only of Abrahamic monotheism.

Avalon should be 100% against ignorance.

You are assuming that Peter is telling the truth about this. What do you think it means to betray someone? Did Judas really betray jesus, or just play his part in the whole game(leaving aside the material from I think peter levenda talking about how Christ and Judas conspired to have a fall guy for the cross which is why the apostles denied him)?
Betrayal requires a countering of intent. If jesus was to be crucified as part of GOD's plan then Judas did not betray. So who really betrayed Jesus? Even in the bible Jesus repeatedly says things like " OMFG you morons are not getting, HERE IT IS AGAIN"

Dont hold Buddhist up on the pedastool. They have done some terrible things in Tibet. There are also Buddhist sects that do fight, supposedly they guard the Queen of England. All the eastern religions have had disciples that have also done atrocious things. The difference is western people do not learn about that part of the worlds history.

But blaming religion is the easy way. The real issue here is the people who follow the religions, most of the time improperly(LOL Christians being ok with ANY violence perpetuated by the state or other christians for that matter.)

Is it Christianity that is wrong with the country? No it is the people who are not compassionate and can not think beyond themselves or their thoughts.

Here it is. Brace yourselves the answer is coming: All small minded, self righteous, bigoted, hateful, greedy, malevolent people of this world should be required to go deep into themselves with the aid of some sort of Hallucinogen and a spiritual master. They should take a trip with the Ayahuascaros(sp). Shedding the ego is the most important thing. Some can do this without the aid of outside chemical substances. Others require a more firm hand. Joe Rogan once had an idea for a show called Douchebags on Mushrooms. I think he was on to something

[RMorgan]

Hey folks,

In my humble opinion, as an agnostic, I think all religions do is packing beliefs as truths.

The fact is that nobody actually knows who created us (if someone actually intentionally created us), why we were created, if this supposed creator actually cares about us at all, etc...

We just don´t know anything significative about the complexity of the universe and creation.

Religions are purely speculative; nothing more than that.

Personally, I can live quite well with the idea that I don´t know a lot of things.

For those who can´t live with the "I don´t know" idea, just pick a religion and then pretend to know the answers; It´s ok if it makes one feel better, really, as long as he doesn´t try to shove his religious "truths" down my throat.

Cheers,

Raf.

[NancyV]

Posted by 9ofClubs (here)
Here it is. Brace yourselves the answer is coming: All small minded, self righteous, bigoted, hateful, greedy, malevolent people of this world should be required to go deep into themselves with the aid of some sort of Hallucinogen and a spiritual master. They should take a trip with the Ayahuascaros(sp). Shedding the ego is the most important thing. Some can do this without the aid of outside chemical substances. Others require a more firm hand. Joe Rogan once had an idea for a show called Douchebags on Mushrooms. I think he was on to something

Thanks! That was awesome! I can't stop laughing about Douchebags on Mushrooms!

[StarDust]

Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)

Posted by StarDust (here)
As Marx once said, "religion is the opiate of the masses". Good luck getting the addicts to kick that habit while in 3rd Density

Marx was an idiot.

Regardless of your personal view of Marx, it does not make his statement any less true.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by meeradas (here)
All organized religion will have to.

And they will once the veil has been lifted within 4th Density.

[Cartomancer]

Religion has become less of a spiritual pursuit and more groups of people with similar or taught values banding together to make politically viable entities. As time goes by any spiritual aspects are put in the back seat in order to simply maintain the survival of the group. Alternately if everyone simply formed their own faith there would always be groups like secret societies or other religions that would band together just to subjugate all of the individual free thinkers. That is a sad aspect of human nature.

In a way complaining about this is like being sad that the sky is blue because there isn't really anything you can do about it except keep on believing what you believe and being happy. There will always be those that have to validate their faith by debunking others faith as well.

[goinghome2012]

the next religion is the the religion of unconditional love, unity, oneness, cooperation, peace, truth, joy and bliss, abundance

transcend all belief system and embrace the truth of the universe; unconditional love and divine light

it is almost complete

[pie'n'eal]

All Humans hold onto something as a comfort blanket...and the main thing they hold onto is ideas about themselves, and what they think!

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!

Tony

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Posted by StarDust (here)

Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)

Posted by StarDust (here)
As Marx once said, "religion is the opiate of the masses". Good luck getting the addicts to kick that habit while in 3rd Density

Marx was an idiot.

Regardless of your personal view of Marx, it does not make his statement any less true.

The statement is simply not true. Throughout history, religion has been used to pacify populations. It has also been used to fire rebellions. Are suicide bombers pacified? Controlled, yes, but not pacified. The Romans certainly didn't think that religion was an opiate. They saw it as a primary threat of rebellion. How about Ireland? Religious rebellions are evident throughout history.

People like to quote Marx because it sounds authoritative. But Marx was an idiot.

[billyji]

Maybe one day there will be no religions, but in the meantime we live with them around our world. would it not be of more beneficial to assist in breaking down the divisions between religions other than hating them.

There are some gems of truths within all religions if you take the time to study.

I embrace them all.

peace

[Tarka the Duck]

Posted by StarDust (here)
As Marx once said, "religion is the opiate of the masses". Good luck getting the addicts to kick that habit while in 3rd Density

Preceding that phrase, Marx wrote that religion is:
" ...the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation"
so he didn't have THAT big a problem with it!

And these days, surely it's more relevant to say that spectator sports/soap operas/Facebook/celebrity magazines are the opiate of the people...

I may have missed it, but has anyone here actually defined what they mean by "religion"? Is it meant in the sense that there a prerequisite for a belief in a creator-being of some sort? Or in the broader sense of a personal belief system? Or in the sense of an organisation prescribing behaviour and setting up cultural activities?

We would only know if the world would be a better place without religion if there was a society that had never been exposed in any way to religion.

Is there such a place for us to examine? A religious-free state that has developed and evolved organically - not somewhere where the freedom to practise religion has been forcibly suppressed, religious belief has been eradicated or has lost its popularity. As far as I know (which isn't very far...) all indigenous peoples have what would be termed religious beliefs.

[ghostrider]

religion and the jews/high priest killed jesus. it didn't stop the belief in a better life, it spread like wild fire. you aint gonna stop an idea in a better way to live by ridding the world of religion. as was said here already = religion as a stepping stone on the path to something better. Let go of your anger, it only clouds the mind ... remember your an immortal soul , this life is just a temporary stop on a longer journey friend ...

[StarDust]

Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)

Posted by StarDust (here)

Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)

Posted by StarDust (here)
As Marx once said, "religion is the opiate of the masses". Good luck getting the addicts to kick that habit while in 3rd Density

Marx was an idiot.

Regardless of your personal view of Marx, it does not make his statement any less true.

The statement is simply not true. Throughout history, religion has been used to pacify populations. It has also been used to fire rebellions. Are suicide bombers pacified? Controlled, yes, but not pacified. The Romans certainly didn't think that religion was an opiate. They saw it as a primary threat of rebellion. How about Ireland? Religious rebellions are evident throughout history.

People like to quote Marx because it sounds authoritative. But Marx was an idiot.

What you view as "truth" is merely a point of view. If not, a 'truth' would be universal without any disagreement. Clearly the statement has struck nerve with you. The statements inclusion in this discussion was not intended to be authoritative in spite of your emotional response to it. It is merely another point of view and may represent "truth" to some but clearly not to others.

You are welcome to view religion any way you desire. Conversely, I have never interpreted this statement to mean that pacification is it's only effect; although that is a narrow way of interpreting what an opiate does to the body. My view is that organized religion creates ideological blinders for most as a control mechanism to dismiss what is being done in this life-time with the illusion that one will be rewarded in the next; and thus has opiate-like effects.

I found the following to provide some reasonable background into Marx's thinking on the topic:

Karl Marx on Religion
Is Religion the Opiate of the Masses?

By Austin Cline,

This quote is reproduced a great deal and is probably the only Marx quote that most people are familiar with. Unfortunately, if someone is familiar with it they are likely only familiar with a small portion that, taken by itself, tends to give a distorted impression of what Marx had to say about religion.

Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions.

Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right

Usually all one gets from the above is “Religion is the opium of the people“ (with no ellipses to indicate that something has been removed). Sometimes “Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature“ is included. If you compare these with the full quotation, it’s clear that a great deal more is being said than what most people are aware of.

In the above quotation Marx is saying that religion’s purpose is to create illusory fantasies for the poor. Economic realities prevent them from finding true happiness in this life, so religion tells them that this is OK because they will find true happiness in the next life. Although this is a criticism of religion, Marx is not without sympathy: people are in distress and religion provides solace, just as people who are physically injured receive relief from opiate-based drugs.

The quote is not, then, as negative as most portray (at least about religion). In some ways, even the slightly extended quote which people might see is a bit dishonest because saying “Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature...” deliberately leaves out the additional statement that it is also the “heart of a heartless world.”

What we have is a critique of society that has become heartless rather than of religion which tries to provide a bit of solace. One can argue that Marx offers a partial validation of religion in that it tries to become the heart of a heartless world. For all its problems, religion doesn’t matter so much — it is not the real problem. Religion is a set of ideas, and ideas are expressions of material realities. Religion is a symptom of a disease, not the disease itself.

Still, it would be a mistake to think that Marx is uncritical towards religion — it may try to provide heart, but it fails. For Marx, the problem lies in the obvious fact that an opiate drug fails to fix a physical injury — it merely helps you forget pain and suffering. This may be fine up to a point, but only as long as you are also trying to solve the underlying problems causing the pain. Similarly, religion does not fix the underlying causes of people’s pain and suffering — instead, it helps them forget why they are suffering and gets them to look forward to an imaginary future when the pain will cease.

Even worse, this “drug” is administered by the same oppressors who are responsible for the pain and suffering in the first place. Religion is an expression of more fundamental unhappiness and symptom of more fundamental and oppressive economic realities. Hopefully, humans will create a society in which the economic conditions causing so much pain and suffering would be eradicated and, therefore, the need for soothing drugs like religion will cease. Of course, for Marx such a turn of events isn’t to be “hoped for” because human history was leading inevitably towards it.

So, in spite of his obvious dislike of and anger towards religion, Marx did not make religion the primary enemy of workers and communists, regardless of what might have been done by 20th century communists. Had Marx regarded religion as a more serious enemy, he would have devoted more time to it in his writings. Instead, he focused on economic and political structures that in his mind served to oppress people.

For this reason, some Marxists could be sympathetic to religion. Karl Kautsky, in his Foundations of Christianity, wrote that early Christianity was, in some respects, a proletarian revolution against privileged Roman oppressors. In Latin America, some Catholic theologians have used Marxist categories to frame their critique of economic injustice, resulting in “liberation theology.”

Marx’s relationship with and ideas about religion are more complex than most realize. Marx’s analysis of religion has flaws, but despite them his perspective is worth taking seriously. Specifically, he argues that religion is not so much an independent “thing” in society but, rather, a reflection or creation of other, more fundamental “things” like economic relationships. That’s not the only way of looking at religion, but it can provide some interesting illumination on the social roles that religion plays.

http://atheism.about.com/od/weeklyquotes/a/marx01.htm

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Posted by StarDust (here)
What you view as "truth" is merely a point of view.

"Reality is subjective" is always the final argument of someone who does not want to examine how wrong they are. This is your ego trying to find an unassailable position.

Posted by StarDust (here)
If not, a 'truth' would be universal without any disagreement.

Disagreement has nothing to do with what is true and what is not. I would think you would know that.

Posted by StarDust (here)
Clearly the statement has struck nerve with you.

This is a projection on your part.

Posted by StarDust (here)
The statements inclusion in this discussion was not intended to be authoritative in spite of your emotional response to it.

I think that it clearly was and your classification of my response is more projection. You project a lot, do you know that?

Posted by StarDust (here)
It is merely another point of view and may represent "truth" to some but clearly not to others.

Truth exists separate from perception.

Posted by StarDust (here)
You are welcome to view religion any way you desire. Conversely, I have never interpreted this statement to mean that pacification is it's only effect; although that is a narrow way of interpreting what an opiate does to the body. My view is that organized religion creates ideological blinders for most as a control mechanism and thus has opiate-like effects.

This is simply lawyer-speak redefining what Marx meant in order to defend your position. Anyone who who has studied Marx knows very well that he was referring to pacification. I know it and you know it.

Stardust, thank you for trying to argue with me just for the sake of arguing. Although I find it entertaining, I suggest that you get some practice at it if you are going to continue trying to "win" instead of considering where you might be wrong. You are not very good at defending your position just for the sake of ego, so put that aside and see what can be gained. Stop worrying about who you think you are. It is your prison.