*ALL* Religion should die!

[watchZEITGEISTnow]

That's right - it is a lie, a con. A control system.

Jesus lived in my belief. Jesus was a cool cat, and who knows what really happened there? One thing is for sure Jesus was wholly (npi) opposed to religion.

You have been conned. There are some nice parts in scripts - some very wise and loving teachings. That is where it ends. It has been outdated for so long, and has caused just about every war invented (or by proxy) - and it needs to end!

Believe in what you want - go for it, just don't tell me your belief is any better than Freds, or Sally's. If someone pushes the agenda of recruiting for religion, they should be exposed.

Common ground is what I believe can bridge the gap - love, no war, and world peace for example. I guess I'm still trying how to deal with a blatant brainwashed blind follower that wants to inch their way in because they believe they are doing a god's work.

Avalon should be 100% against religions. Avalon should be 100% for spirituality.

*off soap box* (for a few minutes anyway)

[Khaleesi]

I guess I'm still trying how to deal with a blatant brainwashed blind follower that wants to inch their way in because they believe they are doing a god's work.

Emphasis mine.

Calling someone names is inappropriate , even if you hide behind the "I didn't say a specific name." excuse. My problem is this statement directly contradicts

Believe in what you want

this statemement. It seems you are not willing to 'agree to disagree' on a subject, but simply want to shut someone else up or derail their thread.

[Tony]

Posted by watchZEITGEISTnow (here)
That's right - it is a lie, a con. A control system.

Jesus lived in my belief. Jesus was a cool cat, and who knows what really happened there? One thing is for sure Jesus was wholly (npi) opposed to religion.

You have been conned. There are some nice parts in scripts - some very wise and loving teachings. That is where it ends. It has been outdated for so long, and has caused just about every war invented (or by proxy) - and it needs to end!

Believe in what you want - go for it, just don't tell me your belief is any better than Freds, or Sally's. If someone pushes the agenda of recruiting for religion, they should be exposed.

Common ground is what I believe can bridge the gap - love, no war, and world peace for example. I guess I'm still trying how to deal with a blatant brainwashed blind follower that wants to inch their way in because they believe they are doing a god's work.

Avalon should be 100% against religions. Avalon should be 100% for spirituality.

*off soap box* (for a few minutes anyway)

Do you see a difference between religion and spirituality?
Spirituality meaning, experience beyond thought.

Religion could be seen as a stepping stone, but as we are humans we tend to be addicted to something or other. If it was not religion, it would be beer, GFL, UFOs, I did it my way.....!



Tony

[Rocky_Shorz]

uh oh, is this Tom Cruz, mad he lost his bride to the Catholics?

he'd be the first to say Scientology isn't a Religion...

[StarDust]

As Marx once said, "religion is the opiate of the masses". Good luck getting the addicts to kick that habit while in 3rd Density

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Posted by StarDust (here)
As Marx once said, "religion is the opiate of the masses". Good luck getting the addicts to kick that habit while in 3rd Density

Marx was an idiot.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Posted by watchZEITGEISTnow (here)
That's right - it is a lie, a con. A control system.

Jesus lived in my belief. Jesus was a cool cat, and who knows what really happened there? One thing is for sure Jesus was wholly (npi) opposed to religion.

You have been conned. There are some nice parts in scripts - some very wise and loving teachings. That is where it ends. It has been outdated for so long, and has caused just about every war invented (or by proxy) - and it needs to end!

Believe in what you want - go for it, just don't tell me your belief is any better than Freds, or Sally's. If someone pushes the agenda of recruiting for religion, they should be exposed.

Common ground is what I believe can bridge the gap - love, no war, and world peace for example. I guess I'm still trying how to deal with a blatant brainwashed blind follower that wants to inch their way in because they believe they are doing a god's work.

Avalon should be 100% against religions. Avalon should be 100% for spirituality.

*off soap box* (for a few minutes anyway)

Your post displays a tremendous ignorance.

If Jesus was so opposed to religion, why did he tell Peter that he would found his church upon him?

There have been many wars fought over the Abrahamic religions. That only covers 54% of the worlds religious believers. When was the last Buddhist, Taoist, or Hindu Crusade? I don't remember the great Shinto war. You are lumping all religions into your very narrow experience.

Most religions do not espouse to be better than others and are not evangelical. Again, it sounds like you are speaking only of Abrahamic monotheism.

Avalon should be 100% against ignorance.

[lyubomir]

Hi Everyone,

All religions are made to create an understanding of the world, what is good or bad and people do not think about it, just follow the instructions... in religions there are good and bad things.

I see that you like Zeitgeist Movement, it's good for me but as everything else it could be turned to something very bad when it becomes powerful, so for me we have to change our understanding of the world, values and needs... then we can start a campaign like this. The whole Project Venus is something wonderful and I hope it will be realized one day on the best possible way...

Religions my friends is the same as the Medecine. In religion spiritual and good people are encouraged to serve a system that makes money, create fear and lots of suffer on this way people with potential are used to serve an institution that have rules... all we know about the Holly Incvision, Bloody crosades... but it's in nearly every institution on the World...

I visited many religious places and in everyone - it's business. I think only the sciences of life like Buddhism and Taoism for something good where people are encouraged to develop their inner power and potential, but I all these science start with creating of an understand and explain the real values...

I see that now most activist on themes like this want to speak about it. It's like a sharing of huge emotional energy and moment of happiness that fill with energy because people find the ultimate solution. But when something start emotional and in a moment when someone doesn't have enough energy or emotions are turned on other way - nothing happens.

That's my opinion Be active as much as possible and do it on a smart and wise way to create something good that can remain for centuries.

All the best my friends!

Kind Regards,

Lyubomir

[meeradas]

All organized religion will have to.

[Tony]

We need a boat to get to the other shore, but when we get there, we no longer need the boat....unless we intend to go back and help others. We are all on paths of discovery (“path” means our present confusion regarding our true being) and we have to travel this path alone: no one can do it for us. However, karmically, we rub shoulders for while and can support one another. Then we move on.

We all fear being smothered by organisations and dogma, but what we really fear is our own inability to deal with these situations. There are people who are heavily into organisation, who tend to stuff it full of do's and don'ts...dogma – but we can still work within that set up if we have confidence. What is funny that, while being outside any organisation, we can still be dogmatic! There is a tendency to make religion out of anything: it is merely a stepping stone (or a boat).


Tony

[eni-al]

Its not so much the ideas of religion that is the problem. Its the certain people within it, and that follow it. Many (not all, a minority in comparison) distort it or use it for their personal gain or for others. Some are fairly close minded and arrogant, which is a lethal mix when they also follow a religion, they may be dedicated, no problem, but its when they begin to deny things or believe others what they do is wrong and sin or punishable etc (homosexuality for example). Look at the Westboro Baptist Church for the best example of people who use religion for their very strict somewhat personal beliefs, they want homosexuals and soldiers to burn in hell and delight in a soldiers death and picket the funerals, pretty sick, religion aside.
I don't really know much about any religion in much depth, so can't say there would be no trouble or conflicts between people as a result of following them, but I think there would be substantially less aggression from people if they paid more attention to the teachings. Greed and power thirst will always overpower it though, at all levels.
People will always be separated by something though anyway, if not religion, its skin colour, where you come from, who owns what or who you think should be in charge.

[gs_powered]

To me, religion is nothing but a control system that exploits one of humanity's purest thought form... Faith in something "higher".

At least organised religion, I can't speak for all of them.

[ulli]

Whether a group of people want to worship together or play tennis...
some organization is necessary.
It's about agreeing when and where. Even this forum has organized structure.

Already when someone tells another person that they need to meditate twice a day
you have the beginnings of organized religion.
What I believe has to go is not so much the organization of believers, but the antiquated rituals, and most important, the interpretation of holy text by so-called professionals.

But it isn't going to happen just because a bunch of futurists disagree.
Organized religion is upheld by traditionalists and the majority of those are women,
and women control the education of their children.

If these kids weren't forced to go to church when they are little,
what would they have left to rebel against later on?

[araucaria]

The spiritual component of religion is the morphine of the suffering

[heyokah]

This guy sums it up quite "nicely" .....


"The Horrible Truth about Religion"
by Andrew werner



What is the basic purpose of religion?
Religion is designed to focus the people's attention and energy on a single, unchanging, uncompromising and invisible supreme being who allegedly created an inferior human race just for some extra companionship and love for himself and then supposedly foisted a set of oppressive and in some cases arbitrary rules on them, which if broken would be met with unimaginable punishment.



This keeps the followers in a continuing state of fear and compliance. They are afraid to question the intentions of this invisible being and they are afraid of even expressing their own individuality in many cases. Christians and others are taught that they have virtually no power to do anything except pray, worship and do good deeds.



They are taught to practice self denial and are told that their own will is totally irrelevant. Religious followers believe that they are yielding their will over to a benevolent cosmic individual who has single-handedly created the whole universe and has their best interests at heart when in fact they are handing over their will and freedoms to hidden groups of religious elites for the elites own personal gains.

Read more : http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/bi...ianazar_18.htm

****

The "frustrations" on "The Bible thread"

****

[Unified Serenity]

An Atheist Defends the Value of Religion

By Bruce Sheiman
author
As an atheist, I approach religion much like an economist. I believe religion persists in our market-based culture, despite the prevalence of secularism, because it provides net value over and above its required investment, and because it beats competing belief systems in the same value proposition. I evaluate religion in terms of its pragmatic usefulness to humankind and seek to answer the question posed by William James: "Grant an idea or belief to be true, what concrete difference will its being true make in anyone's actual life?"

Atheism is a bankrupt ideology on empirical grounds: Its benefits simply do not come close to covering its opportunity costs. Religion, by contrast, offers the vast majority of people a high-value transaction: Its enduring benefits far outweigh its costs. Religion persists, in short, for the reason that it provides the greatest good for the greatest number of people. Thus, by book "An Atheist Defends Religion" is not mainly a critical examination of the New Atheism. Rather, I am making a broad statement about the affirmative role of religion in the contemporary world and what is lost in a purely secular conception of the world.

For centuries, the theism-atheism debate has been dominated by two positions: hard-core believers fervently committed to their faith in a living God; and militant atheists vehemently driven to repudiate the Divine. The time has come to admit that after more than 2,000 years of back-and forth proofs and counter proofs, this debate has reached an insolvable impasse. The question about the existence of God can never be resolved to either side's satisfaction. But the discussion need not end there. We are still left with the important issue of the value of religion. And this is a debate that religion can win. "An Atheist Defends Religion" redefines the terms of the debate, offering a new direction and perspective.

I am not a person of faith: I do not feel the majesty or mystery of the Holy. But neither do I stridently repudiate God. Indeed, there is a part of me that wants to believe in God. That makes me an "aspiring theist." And I want to believe in the Divine because, on balance, religion provides a combination of benefits -- moral, emotional, aesthetic, psychological, existential, communal, and even physical-health -- that no other institution can replicate. These are the essential qualities that make religion so enthralling, enriching, enlightening, and enrapturing. They explain how we achieve our fullest humanity only in religion.

The question I present is not whether God exists, but whether the world is a better place because people believe God exists. This book, as a consequence, is not a defense of God; rather, it is a defense of the belief in God and of religious belief in general.

Being an atheist is not something that I or any one else rationally or deliberately chooses. I did not think through all the competing belief systems and chose unbelief. It is just something that I am. I must admit, however, that the more I understand the world as revealed by science, the more I find the materialist and reductionist explanation for our human destiny terribly devoid of depth, value and meaning. This offends not my religious sensibility (of which I have none), but my existential vanity - the strongly held personal view that my life counts in the grand scheme of things. As a consequence, I am an atheist who is sympathetic to religious aspirations and who is prepared, if not to defend God, then to defend the belief in God.

A mature view holds that religion is more about meaning and purpose than facts and events. Through religion, we experience the mundane as miraculous and the normal as numinous. Religion teaches us that our lives have inherent worth and that the world is shot-through with value. Paul Tillich said, "He who enters the sphere of faith enters the sanctuary of life." And that is because the core preoccupation of religion is the preservation and perpetuation of human existence.

More than any other institution, religion deserves our appreciation and reverence because it has persistently encouraged people to care deeply - for the self, for neighbors, for humanity, and for the natural world - and strive for the highest ideals humans are able to envision. And there is no more eminent ideal than religion's clear declaration of human specialness and the absolute sanctity of life.
Faith is one of the most powerful forces in human development and a strong impetus to personal transformation and collective progress. Religion's misdeeds may make for provocative headlines, but the everyday good works of billions of pious people is the real history of religion, one that parallels the growth and prosperity of humankind. There are countless examples of individuals lifting themselves out of personal misery through faith. In the lives of these people, God is not a delusion, God is not a spell that must be broken - God is indeed great.

The debate about the existence of God is never ending. What is not in dispute is that God exists in people's hearts, minds and spirits. What is not in dispute is that religion is adaptive, constructive and healthful - and thereby makes a positive difference in people's lives. Reflecting James' pragmatic conception of belief: When we act as if religion is true, we act with greater optimism, hope and benevolence.

The take-away from this book is that religious experience is the essential human experience. Mine is a human-centric evaluation of religion. By any empirical measure -- defined in terms of theism's practical impact on individuals, society, and culture -- religion is profoundly beneficial.
In the end, "An Atheist Defends Religion" cogently explains that the most rational and definitive argument for dismissing atheism is not found in the interminable debate over the existence of God, but in elucidating the enduring value of religion itself.

Bruce Sheiman is the author of the new book "An Atheist Defends Religion: Why Humanity is Better Off With Religion than Without It."

[Unified Serenity]

I find this a very odd topic.

1. How are you going to get rid of it?

2. The people who do evil things in the name of a religious sect would what, not do evil things in the name of something else?

It sounds like some of you think if religion were gone all man would be good, but history does not prove that out at all. In fact, the societies that have attempted to remove it were complete failures in the emotional and physical and spiritual wellness of their people. Like it or not, most of us in the world know there is more to life and believe in the Divine. When someone has an extra-ordinary experience it changes their life. I can't think of any religion that was founded by a power mongering evil person just bent on abusing their fellow man and said, "I shall control this stupid people with an idiotic idea like religion".

No, what I think happens is someone has a deeply spiritual experience and their life is changed by it. Their heart, mind and soul connects to the divine and their life becomes a beacon of truth. When you are around such people, they don't have to tell you something wonderful happened to them, it's obvious. They may or may not share what happened, but trust me, word got out as most lived in very close communities and cared about one another. From that the person shares their story. Maybe they continue to have experiences and share them. Eventually, a group forms and the kindred spirit builds. It is only later when someone wants to use that group they join it, and overtake it and little by little they use the power of the group which was created by the groups pious good deeds that people trusted them.

That person would use anything to take over. Then obviously people became kings and queens and learned how valuable manipulating people through religion could be. Those people are just evil people. Man has an intrinsic knowing there is a Divine source. Man instinctively asks, "Where did I come from" or "Why am I here". That won't disappear because religion is gone.

Now for the Judeo-Christian aspect, many have experienced incredible spiritual events and in those events they believe are all true. Some of you come from a wounded Christian background, and I am truly sorry for that. For me it is obvious that just because someone does an evil thing in the name of something, that does not make that something responsible for it. It sort of reminds me of people who say take away all the guns because they kill people. Guns don't do anything but operate. It's the hand holding the gun and pulling the trigger that uses it. What can be used in a negative way can also be used in a positive way, like feeding and protecting your family. Do you really think if we got rid of all guns on the planet there would be no killing of one another? If I remember correctly, we have always had wars and guns are a fairly new invention. What are you going to do take away sticks, knives, pencils, pointy things, heavy things, oh and let me add a more spiritual thing, ostracizing. That's a nice weapon. Many who do not like my views try to do this one, and in fact I have dealt with it my entire life. I have never fit in anywhere. I never could go with the crowd who no matter their leaning seemed to take pleasure in hurting other people. Is it so spiritual to seek to ostracize others to make them conform to the behavior you want? The whole banning and vacationing of people upsets me because the option I would choose is to take their voice away. To moderate their posts when you think they have possibly learned how to share their views without attacking others. Give them a chance to post and if they attack again, just use the mute button while they are having their temper tantrum, and then try again.

I feel I am slightly going off topic now, but the point was that it's about people. People make bad decisions all the time, and the idea of all religion should die is in my opinion very simplistic of a view of the problems in the world. Religion is the outcome of a wonderful divine enlightenment. All religions have to deal with a person who wants to use it to control others, whether we hear about it or not. It's human nature unfortunately.

[Eagle Eye]

Posted by Whiskey_Mystic (here)
Avalon should be 100% against ignorance.

Quoting this one....

[Arpheus]

Oh my here we go again last time i decided to post my opinion view on this,i got my post edited by an admin,and mind you was the first time that ever happened to any of my posts in my 2 years as an avalon member.From now on i wont speak about it anymore.

[Unified Serenity]

Posted by Arpheus (here)
Oh my here we go again last time i decided to post my opinion view on this,i got my post edited by an admin,and mind you was the first time that ever happened to any of my posts in my 2 years as an avalon member.From now on i wont speak about it anymore.

You already are. Might as well just say we hurt your feelings and speak your heart within the guidelines of the forum. I am never offended by people politely sharing their heart and views. I understand we all err, I certainly do, but it's in the spirit of expression we tend to judge another. I would like to hear what you think and why you think it, and may I express for Avalon as a sincere member, I do apologize for your spirit being hurt, and I hope we can move forward.


*edit: i am saying "for Avalon" simply as a member and representative. I am sure there are plenty who would express things differently, but this is my way of expressing my views on this issue.