Marshall Vian Summers' message vs. Alex Collier's

[Alien Ramone]

Do you think that the Andromedans as described by Alex Collier are an example of what Marshall Vian Summers is talking about when he mentions alien groups which are offering us what we want in an attempt to gain control?

Both Collier and summers come off as sincere to me. Something that has bothered me about the information given to Collier by the Andromedans is that much of it has been incorrect. I understand predictions being wrong, since nothing is written in stone in any a timeline we may follow, and just talking about a possible future may change it. One minor bit of information from the Andromedans that bothers me is that Mars is supposedly much closer to the size of Earth than scientists tell us. To me this means that everyone in NASA who has been involved in calculations for any landings or communications with crafts on Mars, would have to know about it and keep it quiet. If the Andromedans aren't conveying the truth on everything, it would seem to me that they can't be trusted.

Here is something that I posted on another forum, which loosely sums up some of what Summers is saying for those who aren't familiar with him:

Here is a video that I just watched yesterday where contactee Marsahall Vian Summers warns that Earth humans in general aren't yet discerning enough to realize what would really be going on with alien contact, and they should shun alien involvement on Earth even if it looks like the the aliens are offering to help. Humans are not discerning enough to join the galactic community and fare well at this point. Humans should learn from their own history that when a more advanced civilization is allowed on their land they will end up being taken over. Marshall gave an example of how Japan prevented that from happening and how the native Indians could have prevented it. He's not promoting the same method, but the idea that we should avoid allowing aliens to be involved on Earth.

Aliens would control through deceit and manipulation, not outright invasion by a group, which would be messy, destructive, and create resistance, and which would not be acceptable by most of the rest of the galactic community.

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2ww35AIYyE

Many of you have probably seen the following Alex Collier speech, but here it is for those who haven't (He doesn't mention the size of Mars in this particular speech, but talks about alien mentoring of humans presumably without a loss of sovereignty):

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR46QjXjLH0

[Maia Gabrial]

Hey Alien Ramone!
I just finished watching Marshall Vian Summer's interview and I'm still at a loss for words. I have to say that he brings up so many good points. And what a coincidence that I've been struggling with similar ideas...

Lately, all of the dots about aliens are just not adding up for what we're being led to believe. Look how insidiously they have played us. From the moment the US govt made their deals with the Grays, almost all was lost for us. The Grays proved that they don't value our values. The govt's mistakes brought this on us....

I think what got my senses tingling about the deviousness of aliens was the Alara Blackwell interview where she mentioned something about the same aliens that worked for the military were working on their own. Oh yeah, she was working with the Ashtar Command.... It was a small thing to say, but it stuck in my head. How many of them are working both sides of the fence? (Now, doesn't that sound familiar with what profiteers are doing funding both sides of a war....?) As above, so below....

Here's what the connected dots are telling me. ALL the aliens are working together, good and bad. We have the ones on the ground, doing all the dirty work like influencing our minds to destroy our world, kill our neighbors, implanting us, influencing us to not question the lies and deceptions, manipulating our minds and even our dna; essentially they're ruining everything in our world.... you name it they've tainted it. I think we all can agree that life is becoming intolerable. These beings have used their advanced abilities to thoroughly fool us. This is probably what they call "the ground forces."

Up there hiding in the skies and just out of our sight in other dimensions are supposedly the good guys. In constanct contact with the ground forces who are making life hell for us, in preparation for our "benevolent cousins" to make their grand entrances as our saviors from these bad ones. I struggled with myself on this because I didn't want to believe that they would really do this to us. Why do we accept it so readily that they're benevolent? Who told us this anyway?

What a lot of people (myself included) haven't realized is what happens AFTER we're saved by these supposed good guys? Will that be when we find out the truth that it was a carefully planned invasion without resistence...? Maybe things will be better. But what if they're not...? Has anyone thought about how the "saviors" will have a great say in what happens to us when they save us?
Summers is right, we don't have the discernment to tell the difference between alien friend from alien foe.... Believe it or not, I DID send a telepathic message to the aliens to GO HOME! But also to take their ground force buddies with them.....
Why are we so willing to give away our powers to everyone? Why do we trust that these guys will do the right thing for us? Afterall, they don't have the same human values as us. Why would we assume that they think like us?

Yes, I believe that there are good cosmic beings out there; but I don't think they're here....

I had a dream last night where the good guys had flown an inflatable raft down to me so that I could cross a body of water. It was red and blue and had a long string attached to it, almost like a kite. I caught it as I stood in water that was the most clearest and purest I ever saw in my life. I could see to the bottom where there was a huge, bright white circular object. I paddled myself on the raft for a few strokes before it capsized on me. I clung to it hard. No matter what I did, I couldn't right the thing. The next thing I knew I was walking onto shallower water, holding that raft away from me, disgustedly.
The point of this is that the good guys (in the skies) gave me this "with conditions" which didn't help me at all. I should have just swam through the waters of spirituality without it. The red side of the raft represented "cosmic family" and I think the blue side meant to assist my free will.... So, I guess from this dream I STILL need to hone my discernment.... Regarding myself, Marshall Vian Summers was right....

[realitycorrodes]

when one states that humans perhaps should not allow aliens to become involved on their planet...it kinda assumes humans have a choice? Forgive me I have not watched anything or read anything, so I may have overlooked an answer given by you already. My confusion here, is, that every experience through history, suggests that the group with the bigger more powerful weapons and technology usually get to rule the roost and then write the history on their take overs - always painting themselves as knights in shining armor.

So I am wondering....are you under the impression humans have more advanced weaponry and technology in comparison to the aliens that wished to get involved in earth and its humans?

[realitycorrodes]

Why do people always assume that because they dreamed it, it must be from someone or something way more knowledgeable and powerful - who somehow have singled us out (chosen one might say - what are the odds?) for an extra special message.

Why don't these more knowledgeable and more powerful types just come down and give the message themselves? Oh I guess that would interfere with alot of science fiction writers making money by moving into real life conspiracy writing? Oops, only joking!! Of course its all real - why else would most of us keep seeing aliens out of the corner of our eyes. Man, why don't they just stay for a while and tell us what it is they are up to?

I often think humans most glaringly obvious weakness is there constant "self centered" interpretations of everything - but hey I could be wrong, and luckily am!

Peace and humility to all.

[Alien Ramone]

Posted by Maia Gabrial (here)
Hey Alien Ramone!
I just finished watching Marshall Vian Summer's interview and I'm still at a loss for words. I have to say that he brings up so many good points. And what a coincidence that I've been struggling with similar ideas...

Lately, all of the dots about aliens are just not adding up for what we're being led to believe. Look how insidiously they have played us. From the moment the US govt made their deals with the Grays, almost all was lost for us. The Grays proved that they don't value our values. The govt's mistakes brought this on us....

I think what got my senses tingling about the deviousness of aliens was the Alara Blackwell interview where she mentioned something about the same aliens that worked for the military were working on their own. Oh yeah, she was working with the Ashtar Command.... It was a small thing to say, but it stuck in my head. How many of them are working both sides of the fence? (Now, doesn't that sound familiar with what profiteers are doing funding both sides of a war....?) As above, so below....

Here's what the connected dots are telling me. ALL the aliens are working together, good and bad. We have the ones on the ground, doing all the dirty work like influencing our minds to destroy our world, kill our neighbors, implanting us, influencing us to not question the lies and deceptions, manipulating our minds and even our dna; essentially they're ruining everything in our world.... you name it they've tainted it. I think we all can agree that life is becoming intolerable. These beings have used their advanced abilities to thoroughly fool us. This is probably what they call "the ground forces."

Up there hiding in the skies and just out of our sight in other dimensions are supposedly the good guys. In constanct contact with the ground forces who are making life hell for us, in preparation for our "benevolent cousins" to make their grand entrances as our saviors from these bad ones. I struggled with myself on this because I didn't want to believe that they would really do this to us. Why do we accept it so readily that they're benevolent? Who told us this anyway?

What a lot of people (myself included) haven't realized is what happens AFTER we're saved by these supposed good guys? Will that be when we find out the truth that it was a carefully planned invasion without resistence...? Maybe things will be better. But what if they're not...? Has anyone thought about how the "saviors" will have a great say in what happens to us when they save us?
Summers is right, we don't have the discernment to tell the difference between alien friend from alien foe.... Believe it or not, I DID send a telepathic message to the aliens to GO HOME! But also to take their ground force buddies with them.....
Why are we so willing to give away our powers to everyone? Why do we trust that these guys will do the right thing for us? Afterall, they don't have the same human values as us. Why would we assume that they think like us?

Yes, I believe that there are good cosmic beings out there; but I don't think they're here....

I had a dream last night where the good guys had flown an inflatable raft down to me so that I could cross a body of water. It was red and blue and had a long string attached to it, almost like a kite. I caught it as I stood in water that was the most clearest and purest I ever saw in my life. I could see to the bottom where there was a huge, bright white circular object. I paddled myself on the raft for a few strokes before it capsized on me. I clung to it hard. No matter what I did, I couldn't right the thing. The next thing I knew I was walking onto shallower water, holding that raft away from me, disgustedly.
The point of this is that the good guys (in the skies) gave me this "with conditions" which didn't help me at all. I should have just swam through the waters of spirituality without it. The red side of the raft represented "cosmic family" and I think the blue side meant to assist my free will.... So, I guess from this dream I STILL need to hone my discernment.... Regarding myself, Marshall Vian Summers was right....

Hi Maia Gabrial,
The Summer's interview has sort of given me a new perspective, and I agree that there are the possibilities that you bring up in your assessment. Some of the supposed benevolent and malevolent alien groups have been reported by abductees to have been seen working together on spacecraft.

[Alien Ramone]

Posted by realitycorrodes (here)
when one states that humans perhaps should not allow aliens to become involved on their planet...it kinda assumes humans have a choice? Forgive me I have not watched anything or read anything, so I may have overlooked an answer given by you already. My confusion here, is, that every experience through history, suggests that the group with the bigger more powerful weapons and technology usually get to rule the roost and then write the history on their take overs - always painting themselves as knights in shining armor.

So I am wondering....are you under the impression humans have more advanced weaponry and technology in comparison to the aliens that wished to get involved in earth and its humans?

In part of the interview Summers talked about a couple examples in history. He mentions a time when Japan would burn every single ship heading for its shores, and this kept more advanced civilizations from trying to colonize there. He mentioned that the history of America would have been much different if the American natives had taken that approach. He isn't calling for the same approach in our current situation, but is making the point that if we create a situation where we use up resources and need to trade and deal with aliens, or call on them for help, we will end up under their control.

Summers also talked about how it isn't going to be a battle with weapons, because that wouldn't be allowed by the other off world groups out there and would create resistance. The control will be achieved by the aliens giving governments or the human race things that they want such as technology and gaining influence that way. On the individual level he suggested something such as broadcasting out into space that we aren't ready yet to be a part of the galactic community. He underplayed relying on government to solve our problems, but I personally think if enough people woke up enough to elect one the few Presidential candidates out there who aren't compromised, progress could be made in ending the wars and turning back the system of control that is being created over the citizens in the United States.

Why do people always assume that because they dreamed it, it must be from someone or something way more knowledgeable and powerful - who somehow have singled us out (chosen one might say - what are the odds?) for an extra special message.

Why don't these more knowledgeable and more powerful types just come down and give the message themselves? Oh I guess that would interfere with alot of science fiction writers making money by moving into real life conspiracy writing? Oops, only joking!! Of course its all real - why else would most of us keep seeing aliens out of the corner of our eyes. Man, why don't they just stay for a while and tell us what it is they are up to?

I often think humans most glaringly obvious weakness is there constant "self centered" interpretations of everything - but hey I could be wrong, and luckily am!

Peace and humility to all.

Summers wasn't saying that he dreamed the information, but that there was a very clear voice calling him to receive their message and he finally agreed. He repeated what was said to him and recorded it. It was later transcribed. Whether or not he trusted the information probably had a lot to do with the content of it.

In this particular case the alien group that is telepathically contacting Summers supposedly has never been to Earth and has only come as close as the outer reaches of the solar system. They aren't about disclosure or trying to make contact with all of Earth, but are trying to give advice, which can be used to help humans to see what they need to do to prevent themselves from coming under control of alien groups. At 1:00:14 Summers mentions the 3 things that we need as a group before we should become a part of the galactic community; self sufficiency, unity, and discretion.

In relation to your comment about groups giving us their message themselves, I have often in the past thought that, if the Andromedans really wanted to have us wake up to the possibility of us mentoring them, they should disclose themselves, but supposedly there are restrictions on that kind of thing. According to some researchers the Greys were allowed to continue contact, because the government had made deals or treaties with them (technology in exchange for abductions and bases), and we were then left to deal with the situation created by the government.

I understand that we don't know what is or isn't true in any of this, but I think we are best off informed of all the possibilities.

[realitycorrodes]

Thanks for your insightful replies. Off the top of my head, all I get is...there is not much point in choosing to vote for any government if the individual themselves have no self mastery - the first unity that perhaps needs to be achieved is the unity within oneself - maybe the as below so above thing may apply nicely and coincidentally then. Who wants to be governed by someone other than themselves anyway? But as I say one needs to do the internal work to be their own master - I don't consider that each individuals destiny is hitched to a crowd of psychopaths - it hardly seems fair IMHO. Just because a bunch of other humans decided to compromise themselves should not mean the rest of us have to be held accountable for their misdeeds. Deliberate ignorance towards the misdeeds of others, with the intention of voting them into power in order to selfishly benefit from such deliberate ignorance is IMHO no better than committing the misdeeds themselves.

The bottom line for me - is it all seems dodgy, filled with holes and conveniences that uncannily allow incredible pieces of seemingly sci-fi imaginations to fit together.

Nothing above resonates with me. Especially the part about "non-interference" - as if we are some kind of petri dish experiment that must not be disturbed? Way to convenient an excuse to cover up the obvious lack of credible evidence.

Thanks again for your response.

P.S. I don't see any kind of "karma" or "good guy looking out for us" - this experience seems more like a free for all - no holds barred. It's the law of the jungle so to speak - the bad guys always win cause they aren't afraid to do the killing....and they never seem to get punished.

The Hindu mind controllers had to invent the idea of reincarnation as part of their mind control, in order to explain away the fact that the bad guys never seem to get punished in this life.

It's just beautiful piece of mind control "reincarnation" as no one can prove that the bad guys got their punishment in the next life. Plus most humans, automatically fall for the "reincarnation memory inserts" as their constant desire for their egos to seek attention, allows them to feel special about being connected to "RA" or "Isis" or whoever their imaginations make them feel special to be associated with.

[Alien Ramone]

Posted by realitycorrodes (here)
Thanks for your insightful replies. Off the top of my head, all I get is...there is not much point in choosing to vote for any government if the individual themselves have no self mastery - the first unity that perhaps needs to be achieved is the unity within oneself - maybe the as below so above thing may apply nicely and coincidentally then. Who wants to be governed by someone other than themselves anyway? But as I say one needs to do the internal work to be their own master - I don't consider that each individuals destiny is hitched to a crowd of psychopaths - it hardly seems fair IMHO. Just because a bunch of other humans decided to compromise themselves should not mean the rest of us have to be held accountable for their misdeeds. Deliberate ignorance towards the misdeeds of others, with the intention of voting them into power in order to selfishly benefit from such deliberate ignorance is IMHO no better than committing the misdeeds themselves.

The bottom line for me - is it all seems dodgy, filled with holes and conveniences that uncannily allow incredible pieces of seemingly sci-fi imaginations to fit together.

Nothing above resonates with me. Especially the part about "non-interference" - as if we are some kind of petri dish experiment that must not be disturbed? Way to convenient an excuse to cover up the obvious lack of credible evidence.

Thanks again for your response.

P.S. I don't see any kind of "karma" or "good guy looking out for us" - this experience seems more like a free for all - no holds barred. It's the law of the jungle so to speak - the bad guys always win cause they aren't afraid to do the killing....and they never seem to get punished.

The Hindu mind controllers had to invent the idea of reincarnation as part of their mind control, in order to explain away the fact that the bad guys never seem to get punished in this life.

It's just beautiful piece of mind control "reincarnation" as no one can prove that the bad guys got their punishment in the next life. Plus most humans, automatically fall for the "reincarnation memory inserts" as their constant desire for their egos to seek attention, allows them to feel special about being connected to "RA" or "Isis" or whoever their imaginations make them feel special to be associated with.

I agree that the people need to change first before the government will, and Summers did say that relying on the government wasn't a good first step, so I guess I am sort of in agreement with him on that. I agree with the idea of not wanting to be governed, so a good transition would be to elect people who want as minimal government control and interference as possible.

I also agree that we shouldn't be held responsible for the misdeeds of leaders in this situation, but whether it's fair or not, we are living with the consequences of what they do. Summers got into the point that even, if the United States refused to deal with aliens, the aliens would just deal with another country such as China and prop them up, so it is a difficult situation. That's where the part about being united plays a big factor.

What Summers said does resonate with me at least as another perspective to consider in evaluating things that happen related to the alien presence.

I don't see a group looking out for us in a very determined way either; The groups that supposedly are, reportedly say they can't interfere except by contacting a few individuals with information or advice.

On the issue of reincarnation or the spirit, in the past I didn't believe any of it and thought our minds were just a product of electrical signals created by the brain. Now with all the testimony about it from Black Ops insiders, contactees, abductees, etc., it is currently what adds up to me. Quantum mechanics opens up the door some for the possibility of existence being consciousness based, so that plays a factor too in what I think is possible. There is an interesting case of a boy who remembered a past life as a fighter pilot, and he supposedly remembered a lot of things that he couldn't have known about otherwise. Of course, like with most information, there is no way of knowing if it is true.

[realitycorrodes]

Thanks again for your reply. If I had humans in a petri dish of pain, in order to use them to create emotional energy, so that that "emotional energy" could be traded as some kind of cosmic cocaine across the universe, the first thing I would do, after the farm/petri dish had been formed, is create a simulated dream world, for the illusion of immortal consciousness that elusively appears when a highly complex biological computer is running, in order to calm (cool down) the biological computer's (human brain's) anxiety (temperature) in regard to it's existentialism.

I am not a sci-fi writer, but it seems reasonably obvious to me that I would need to create a kind of simulated heaven within the physical prison in order to encourage such physical slaves to believe there is a point to their existence. i.e. the "reincarnation" IMHO is craftily built into this physical world (program), and does not pertain to some other place - a program within a program if you will.

People subconsciously love to hear about "reincarnation" as it is a balm to their fears about continued existence. Tell them what they want to hear, so long as they maintain themselves in the farm of torture and keep the production of "emotional energy" high.

If one can build the earth program as a farm of pain, I don't reckon it would be too hard to build the brain in such a way as to simulate (get access to) a heaven within its subconscious (a larger program) along with various access points to the seemingly eternal (larger program's) information. Besides the only reason people feel that "DATA" of a memory of an event belongs to them is they also get to access the "DATA" of the emotional energy felt during that event.

If anyone else was given access to the event DATA plus the emotional DATA related to such a supposedly past event (for the event may not have ever occurred anywhere - as it may have been just manufactured for convenience by the programmer), then they all could be made to believe they all had the same experience of an event of the past (life), when in truth all that has occurred is the opening of a "DATA" port within a biological computer (sensor/receptor/smaller program) which allows access to the core/shared DATA BANK of the larger program. Nothing is truly personal, individual, separate - there is only a holographic illusion of separation - in effect everything is just an intricately and seamlessly "woven together" sea of data, that is shaped and massaged into things that appear separate. Our own ego's (boundaries to our smaller program) are designed to maintain the illusion of separateness (boundaries) from the larger program (the system).

It these concepts are meditated upon, it almost allows a seeing through the digital facade, or at least allows for a kind of "reprogramming" of the biological computer(smaller program) in relation to the way the biological computer (smaller program) is interacting with the "larger program" (the system) - this reprogramming works in such a way as to minimize the smaller programs production of "emotional energy" - and as such, the larger program's statistical analysis of the smaller program (the biological brain) concludes that the smaller program is functioning inefficiently in is capacity to produce "emotional energy" - and as such the larger program may designate the smaller program as unsustainable - and as such discontinue its existence within the larger program (the system), in preference for another smaller program that is more likely to produce a higher amount of "emotional energy" - hence there would be no more "in theory" delusional reincarnation for the previous small program?? It would "I guess" simply be indivisibly merged into the sea of data.

I know - not what people want to hear right? It threatens their notion of their boundary from the system (ego).

The movie "Thirteen Floor" touched on the kind of situation we may be in. IMHO

But as always, I know for sure I know absolutely nothing - I am just making suggestions.

Also I am aware I have gone way of track to the original thread - my apologies - I will leave it at that.

Peace.

[Alien Ramone]

For the idea of reincarnation to be used the way you suggest, all the different contacted alien groups would have to be in on it, since from the information I've seen all the different groups that have talked about the spirit have confirmed it. What you suggested is possible and something to keep in mind. I realize that the idea of reincarnation has it's appeal, but I try to be objective in determining what adds up to me and am always ready to change my view, if there is information that adds up to a different conclusion from a lot of sources. I'm not tied to the idea of reincarnation and would be fine with the idea of our minds being just being electrical signals for one lifetime, but am making the case why it adds up to me right now.

Although there may be cases where aliens use emotional energy, I don't get the sense that it is much of a driving force behind what they are doing. Summers had talked about us being a biological resource, which I took as mostly meaning a source of DNA. I remember there was an insider who talked about how humans are compatible with a little DNA manipulation with just about every species in the galaxy, because of the DNA manipulation of Earth humans that has gone on in the past by many different alien species. Summers talked about resources and trade. I could see how population reduction plans of the NWO could serve alien groups that have influence by creating a small slave force that uses very little resources. Charles Hall talked about how the Tall Whites (Large Nosed Greys) used the Earth as an outpost related to trade.

Just to give you a little to ponder about reincarnation, here is the most convincing video I have seen about it. I realize there is no way to fully verify what is being presented, and that there could be other explanations. I think it's best to keep the mind open about the possibility of it existing or not, but we all will have our opinions of what is most likely based on the information we have taken in and our discernment.:

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72oCyrbgN_I

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1aBip9ge48

[DNA]

I personally don't buy Alex Collier. It's as you've said, his prognostications have failed, and his data that is in conflict with what is known has proven to fail as well.
I first listened to Marshall back in 08 on coast to coast. He is an amazing interview, Marshall is incredibly intelligent, I picked up his first book and after reading decided I would "choose" not to buy into Marshall. Not because Marshall said anything that seemed false, but because it was just to heart breaking and seemingly depressing. If what Marshall says is true, what chance do we have?


PS
Also,,you might find some of the info mentioned here interesting. It's an avalon thread started about a year ago. Alex Collier VS Billy Meiers

[realitycorrodes]

Hey Alien Ramone, I really appreciate your open minded approach. Thank you for the reincarnation video links, I always enjoy viewing that stuff. I come across so many people unconsciously invested in a particular belief system they usually respond defensively to anything that challenges their pet beliefs. I know one should not expect such stuff on this forum, but what can I say. Hey it sounds like I should listen to the original links of Marshall Van Summers, which I will do right now. Thanks for the sharing of information. Oh, Marshall Van Summers view and the one I suggested are not mutually exclusive IMHO. My view is going within - going within the hologram, while the alien stuff is looking without - both can exist at the same time. I have always believed in alien life forms since childhood - it just seemed to egotistical not too - whether they are from another planet or home grown earth one's well?? I have not personally seen any aliens myself - although I have psychic friends who claim to have seen the little grays - although I can astral travel and experience what appears to be sentient beings, but I am not convinced they are anything beyond the confines of my own brain at the moment - although the experience is very real - as real as the dream we are in now.

[Alien Ramone]

Posted by DNA (here)
I personally don't buy Alex Collier. It's as you've said, his prognostications have failed, and his data that is in conflict with what is known has proven to fail as well.
I first listened to Marshall back in 08 on coast to coast. He is an amazing interview, Marshall is incredibly intelligent, I picked up his first book and after reading decided I would "choose" not to buy into Marshall. Not because Marshall said anything that seemed false, but because it was just to heart breaking and seemingly depressing. If what Marshall says is true, what chance do we have?


PS
Also,,you might find some of the info mentioned here interesting. It's an avalon thread started about a year ago. Alex Collier VS Billy Meiers

We seem to be in a very difficult situation with a lot going against us, and almost any of the scenarios involve very difficult solutions. If Marshall is right, it means that many more people are going to need to wake up to what the possible situations are, and governments are going to need to unite against dealing with alien groups. Even if U.S. citizens finally woke up and elected a government which would shun alien involvement, other countries would probably give in to alien enticements and be blind to what the consequences would be. Based on what Marshall was saying, then even if nations did unite in that purpose, there would need to be a world wide change in approach by individuals so that the population doesn't rise so high that most of the resources are used up, leading to the need for trade with aliens or solutions that have alien involvement. If nations become united in purpose, the easiest part might be the discretion which Marshall talks about. It would involve the Earth community keeping to itself and not attracting attention of off world groups, which might want to exploit it.

I liked Colliers' solution, but it seemed just as difficult to achieve with no monetary system and people voluntarily contributing their time and efforts along with a global group which is doesn't have power, but is mandated to supply the essentials.

I just read through your "Billy Meier vs Alex Collier" thread. Meier, Collier, and Summers all seem sincere and have something to add. The problems with dissension in the Meier camp and accusations and evidence of fraud don't preclude me from considering the possibility that there was some fraud and fake photos and films at some point, but essentially what Meier has been saying could be true. I know there are the accusations of models existing, but from my point of view that has been adequately explained The story is that someone had given the models to Billy Meier, and there are films of him holding a model on a string attached to a stick so a comparison could be made between his films and pictures and ones taken of a model.

Again, Collier seems sincere, but the thing that bothers me is how a lot of the information given by the Andromedans doesn't seem very reliable.

The information Marshall Summers has relayed seems very insightful, but my interpretation related to what he has relayed about free energy technologies and hyperdimensional travel is that the information is mainly to dissuade us from pursuing those things. I think there probably are practical free energy technologies and hyperdimensional travel probably is commonly used in the form of stargates and jump rooms. Free energy technologies could create problems in that by some accounts some are supposedly convertible to anti-gravity machines and hyperdimensional travel would put us in contact with aliens.

[realitycorrodes]

I just watched the interview. Summers stated there is no such thing as free energy. Unfortunately, that was the final "truth reveal-er" about the guy for me. I have watched an amazing amount of information on free energy and I am personally convinced it is there. For me there is a whole lot of "hypnotic waffle" to the guy - just regurgitated distractive arguments. I have to do myself a disservice and just be simply dismissive of the guy. Oh and by the way, I did read some book by B. Miers - about Sanannda or something - not very impressive - made up nonsense in my opinion as well...worse than the bible - and that is saying something. Frauds the lot of them....Alex Collier as well. But hey I found them all entertaining as sci-fi writers to a certain degree.

In regard to good information on "reincarnation" and the afterlife, one could not do better than

Michael Newton - Journey of Souls, and Destiny of Souls

I had read both of those books and as such was completely aware of the astral hierarchies that have been designed for the consciousness and yet I still suggest that they are deliberately placed there to persuade consciousness to "reincarnate".

Somewhere in those books it states that when a soul does not want to reincarnate when their so called spiritual guide is trying to persuade them to reincarnate, if they still insist on not reincarnating, then they are taken away for "remodeling" - sounds ominous I know. Enough said.

[apokalypse]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy6Ai2xNXHk -C2C interview Start 39:25

for me Marshall Vian Summer didn't blew away like Alex Does with his Message and some of his info...

when the last time we hear accurate prediction actually said it clearly such in time period event going to happen? i guess none on only few on our finger tips

[Alien Ramone]

Posted by apokalypse (here)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy6Ai2xNXHk -C2C interview Start 39:25

for me Marshall Vian Summer didn't blew away like Alex Does with his Message and some of his info...

when the last time we hear accurate prediction actually said it clearly such in time period event going to happen? i guess none on only few on our finger tips

I like Collier's and Summer's messages, and the messages both seem insightful enough to have come from off world beings, which have more of an understanding of what is going on than we do. I would like to see the ideas that were given to Collier transitioned to through the collective will of the people, but also believe that Summer's' contacts have a point that the more isolated we can stay from the galactic community until we become more united and discerning collectively, the better off we will be. If the Andromedans are sincere and not trying to take advantage in some way, I think they will be very pleased, if Earth humans do end up taking care of their mess on their own.

In relation to the accuracy of predictions, I touched on it a little in my opening comment:

I understand predictions being wrong, since nothing is written in stone in any a timeline we may follow, and just talking about a possible future may change it. One minor bit of information from the Andromedans that bothers me is that Mars is supposedly much closer to the size of Earth than scientists tell us. To me this means that everyone in NASA who has been involved in calculations for any landings or communications with crafts on Mars, would have to know about it and keep it quiet. If the Andromedans aren't conveying the truth on everything, it would seem to me that they can't be trusted.

This information about Mars may seem like a trivial thing, but until I can understand why information that doesn't logically seem like it could be true was given by the Andromedans, it leaves a big question in my mind. Here is a video where Collier talks about it at 1:46:

Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg3f_0fV-xA

[Alien Ramone]

Posted by realitycorrodes (here)
I just watched the interview. Summers stated there is no such thing as free energy. Unfortunately, that was the final "truth reveal-er" about the guy for me. I have watched an amazing amount of information on free energy and I am personally convinced it is there. For me there is a whole lot of "hypnotic waffle" to the guy - just regurgitated distractive arguments. I have to do myself a disservice and just be simply dismissive of the guy. Oh and by the way, I did read some book by B. Miers - about Sanannda or something - not very impressive - made up nonsense in my opinion as well...worse than the bible - and that is saying something. Frauds the lot of them....Alex Collier as well. But hey I found them all entertaining as sci-fi writers to a certain degree.

In regard to good information on "reincarnation" and the afterlife, one could not do better than

Michael Newton - Journey of Souls, and Destiny of Souls

I had read both of those books and as such was completely aware of the astral hierarchies that have been designed for the consciousness and yet I still suggest that they are deliberately placed there to persuade consciousness to "reincarnate".

Somewhere in those books it states that when a soul does not want to reincarnate when their so called spiritual guide is trying to persuade them to reincarnate, if they still insist on not reincarnating, then they are taken away for "remodeling" - sounds ominous I know. Enough said.

Summers point about free energy was that it isn't really free, because resources are needed to create the technology to use it. He seemed to be making the point that a very big resource intensive energy plant would need to be created to harness the free energy. My take on this can be explained in a response I gave to DNA:

The information Marshall Summers has relayed seems very insightful, but my interpretation related to what he has relayed about free energy technologies and hyperdimensional travel is that the information is mainly to dissuade us from pursuing those things. I think there probably are practical free energy technologies and hyperdimensional travel probably is commonly used in the form of stargates and jump rooms. Free energy technologies could create problems in that by some accounts some are supposedly convertible to anti-gravity machines and hyperdimensional travel would put us in contact with aliens.

I don't find Summer's message to be regurgitated as much as I find it to be very different from the messages of others, and whether someone considers it to all be made up by him or an actual message from an off world group, it's a good perspective to add in evaluating alien related information or any actual alien contact which may occur in the future. I feel similarly about Alex Collier's information. The ideas that Collier says came from the Andromedans, although seeming very difficult to implement, seem like a very good system if humankind were able to come together collectively in that manner.

I'm not sure if I completely understand your take on reincarnation. From a comment you had made it sounds like you are suggesting that there is an overall program, which I would equate to an all encompassing consciousness. Then there is a smaller program within humans, which I would equate to DNA. You seem to be implying that the aliens may have adjusted human DNA such that humans would tend to believe in things such as religions or reincarnation and that aliens have even programed the DNA such that an actual past life memory might be accessed from the overall program or all encompassing consciousness. One of the implications is that there isn't a a spirit that continues on reincarnating, but a new consciousness that might have the potential to access information about past lives because of genetic engineering to create that possibility.

I lean more toward the theory that genetic engineering was done on hominids during the evolution of man when some races such as the Anunnaki added some of their own genetic information and programmed the DNA to inhibit humans from accessing memories of their past lives, so that they would be more controllable. I do also believe that part of the genetic engineering may have focused on making us susceptible to things such as idol worship as another method of controlling us.

[Maia Gabrial]

I also agree that we shouldn't be held responsible for the misdeeds of leaders in this situation, but whether it's fair or not, we are living with the consequences of what they do. Summers got into the point that even, if the United States refused to deal with aliens, the aliens would just deal with another country such as China and prop them up, so it is a difficult situation. That's where the part about being united plays a big factor.

That's exactly what I believe, Alien Ramone. We're all paying the price for what the US govt and militaries agreed to back then, only that backfired big time. They thought they were using the Grays when it was the other way around. Boy, are we paying the price now....! Look at what we're facing now. An enemy that's powerful with its advanced weaponry and yet it wants US to give up without resistence to them....Not to mention that they've used every devious trick in the book on us; some very successfully, I might add.

A part of me is optimistic, though about the human race finally coming together, raising in consciousness together and ready to make a better world. If the "foreign" influences and interferences would just disappear, taking all of their bad buddies and all our human traitors with them, we might make make into the century we're supposed to be in....

[wavydome]

This discussion touches on many interesting aspects for me. Thanks everyone for your insightful comments.

The OP Summer interview was timely and fits some key points for me. I wonder: Perhaps most key was the potentials for human unity. Special thanks to Alien Ramone for this thread. I've been listening to several notable commentators and reflect some key points below. I highlight Summer's near quotes in blue. Parentheses are my attempted reflections on Summer's words and Summer's meanings.

RE:Marshall Vian Summer on Camelot Jan 2012, with Kerry Cassidy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=U2ww35AIYyE

I took some time pausing and replaying, to keep Summer's phrases intact:

there are free races in the universe
the universe has been governed by nature
and no one has been able to overcome nature

this is very important

we think technology has no end and can replace all constraints (of) nature
(monopolist-using-technocrats have it wrong, wrong, wrong... )
(isn't it more about sentient-vitality of conscientious-livings)

(i.e. regarding freedom of whole galaxy populations: )

complex trade
uniform (rules of engagement)
undemocratic (galaxy as a whole?)

conquest is suppressed

(other means are used to take over weaker populations: )

persuasion & deception

(foolishly managed nationalism) is going to be sold away
consciousness (must sustain) the base line (do this well)
god cannot be manipulated (as) source of strength integrity
(emphasis is to evolve)
(soul....) journey cannot be manipulated

(take note of deception or....)
we will be seduced enmasse
and will be seduced in a way--
we never thought we'd be seduced
and how we'll be seduced is
to be offered what we want
which is the most deceptive form of seduction, there is.

(i.e.: ) wealth and power (are our current deceptive seductions)

and we are very primed for it (Wow, such fun in a consumerist world)

as the world becomes more disorderly....(materialistic chaos for souls)


environmental shift (is a) great incentive to war
(ya- like droughts in agricultural regions, with unsustainable cities)
(Problem-Reaction-Solution: the controller's formula to herd masses)
(Summer's interview did not seem to discuss the ET objectives of trade)
(what, really, could be the best commodities harvested from earth?)
(for galactic trade or beyond? Does Galactic commerce trade materialism?)
(i have to wonder! why would not some sort of behavioral data be traded?)
(i have digressed-- back to interview quotes....)

and we are able to make a better world BTW.
We don't need help from (anyone)... we are very good at that.

we have to grow up and be responsible

humanity has to unite to be in a greater community (universe?)

(yes: unite. just what is this? methinks unite in all purposes from low to high)
(functionally, this could conceivably be somewhat like 100th monkey effects)
(purposes manifesting through 'consecrated' purchasing power of the masses)
(quit buying stupid products, stupid diets, stupid-matrix-products)

there are three requirements for freedom in the universe:
self sufficiency, unity and discretion
...
...

the price of freedom in the universe is:
self sufficiency, unity and discretion
(discretion <- checked by Kerry make it = discernment-- reply= yes)

united does not mean become clones... cooperation is united, (then) we survive

people are terrified by unity!
a responsible and practical management (of life)
when i talk about unity i talk about responsible management of the planet 1:03:15
(practical reasons for this)



wavydome

[Alien Ramone]

Posted by wavydome (here)
(Summer's interview did not seem to discuss the ET objectives of trade)
(what, really, could be the best commodities harvested from earth?)
(for galactic trade or beyond? Does Galactic commerce trade materialism?)
(i have to wonder! why would not some sort of behavioral data be traded?)

Your complete comment is a good summary of the important points, and some of the same questions as in the snippet above came to mind for me in listening to the interview.

In one sense we could be viewed as a resource in that if we are controlled, we could do the work of providing resources and of manufacturing some of what alien groups need. That could be an incentive for alien groups to have influence over less advanced civilizations, because it could be an easier way to get what they want than actually having to rely only on the resources they are able to harvest from asteroids through their own efforts and any robotics or AI that they have. I think Collier has talked about how benevolent aliens use asteroids as a source of resources. In relation to food, I think Summers mentioned that it could be created by alien groups from resources. If resources are available from asteroids and food can be created from resources, this does bring up the question of the ET objectives of trade that you asked. Maybe it takes a lot of resources to create the infrastructure to exploit asteroids, and groups need to trade to build up that and other capabilities. Trade might center around resources for parts or craft for space travel, resources (possibly biological) to create food from, and industry to gain more resources. Deals that the NWO or related groups are making with aliens my involve the creation of slave population, which will use Earth resources to create what aliens need in exchange for the NWO getting the power they want and then them getting access to technology and space.

Summers stressed the biological value of humans, which others such as Atticus and Collier have talked about. Animal DNA, plant DNA, and Earth human DNA compatibility with many alien species is probably valuable for genetic engineering uses.

I would think that behavioral data as you mentioned and other data would be valuable. Based on Summer's point that alien groups have discretion about the existence of Earth, I would think the data would be limited to groups that already know about the presence of Earth and Earth humans.