Marshall Vian Summers' message vs. Alex Collier's

[apokalypse]

if Et's use human as resources but what are the resources? these et's are xx thousands years more advance than us and they have everything they need or want. maybe we are apart of their games or what ever games they played. they want our genetics/DNA? or they create these society and controlling us in negative mode to suck up all of the negative energy? if you talking about resources as in regarding with the materials then it doesn't make sense.

i do think Aliens contacts must happen but only concern is who are they? how do we know they either really benevolent or not? all of us on alternative media are ready for contact and we know what to do or expect but there's many people who are on mainstream clearly not ready. these people on mainstream over 60% chances consider them gods...

once Planet Earth officially have contact with races from outer space will change everything from religion to the way we lived. for this reason Controllers or who ever you want to call them doesn't want to happen so come up all kind of excuses for the contact not to happen.

in preparation for contact i think few things keep in mind and these are what i think. Keep distance and keep some space during any contact, they are not gods/God should never be worship, they more advance than us doesn't mean they always right, their proposal for new system for planet earth might fits them but not for us. not only listen to one race but multiple of race...

[wobbegong]

Posted by apokalypse (here)
... Keep distance and keep some space during any contact, they are not gods/God should never be worship, they more advance than us doesn't mean they always right, their proposal for new system for planet earth might fits them but not for us. ...

Thanks apocalypse, I really agree with this phrase of yours.
There was a bit of discussion before, maybe too much (my fault), but I think there are a lot of things that we all actually do agree on, like caution for example, and sticking together as a race.

[Alien Ramone]

Posted by OnyxKnight (here)
You people have no idea what is going on down there. Their children are being raised to combat off-world civilizations. In fully fledged war. The only reason we are not dealt with is because we, on the surface, have no knowledge of this, and those underground are being brainwashed to behave this way. We are the ones doing the dirty work on other alien cultures, not the other way around.

But nevermind, It appears I'm talking to a wall here, and I've already said too much. I'll keep it too myself next time.

Onyx,
Is the information about the underground cities from your alien contacts or from research? I hope you keep posting information about your alien contacts considering the amount of contact you've had with different species. My view on Summers and Collier is that they both offer things to consider, and I am always adjusting my view of what adds up to me as more information comes in, since we never seem to be given a complete explanation. Summer's information has gotten me to view humans as having ways to solve their own problems, although it would be difficult since it involves so much cooperation world wide. I would think the Andromedans would like to see humans solve their own problems even more than needing the Andromedans to mentor them, but I find both solutions appealing, if they can happen.

I post a lot of questions and comments on a mainstream forum called SodaHead, and often get criticized for what I'm saying in relation to politics, the NWO, and aliens, but I look at it as an opportunity to respond and get more information out.

[Alien Ramone]

Posted by Peace of Mind (here)
beware of the deceivers....

Although I agree with some of the things they say about spirituality, I've haven't received anything of use from either of them. I think some of these WB's use spirituality to promote their claims of aliens. I don’t see any validity in Summer’s or Collier’s claims. Perhaps those that have some beliefs in these two peoples reports can point out a few examples of truth for those of us that can’t seem to find any of it, or any form of connections to it, that would mean a great deal to a lot of us.

I’m finding it very interesting that people can have such in-depth discussions about things that have no foundation or a leg to stand on. How does someone talk with great confidence about something they can’t verify in any way shape or form? I have even greater concerns for those that follow and support this hype without the need of evidence, the hear say seems to be good enough. This is not a good look.

If these so called aliens are real, what do we really expect them to do for us? Shouldn’t we be more concern about the state and condition of the Human race? In my mind I don’t think any intelligent entity from another world will care much about a specie that exhibits very little care/urgency for themselves, or their own planet. I don’t think they have much respect for us because we allow ourselves to be ruled unjustly by a handful of deceitful cowards. If I was an alien I’m sure of what I would be thinking about this place called Earth. I would want to take it over for one reason or another, or feel a bit of disgust while observing the wasteful divine spirit of man.

The cosmos is probably not what Nasa or our controlled learning institutions teach us to believe. I’ve poke a few holes into some of the theories regarding the cosmos, there are some glaring discrepancies and inconsistencies within the teachings of outer space. I’m very much into the sciences. But, my main reasons for not believing in aliens are simple.

EX: I’m a very outgoing person, I’ve extended my hand and heart in many ways and sometimes I even extend my own neck without the fear of it being severed. I along with others are fighting for the homeless/ handicap and mentally ill while uplifting them. Charities are being created for various nonprofits. Protesting/demonstration/seminars/summits/ many random engagements are formed and attended for the purpose of equality and human advancement. Everyone from the children to the elderly is forming long overdue connections and the ideas are fantastic because the generation gaps are being filled within these meetings.

Still, every night I sit in my backyard meditating and asking the universe to provide me with more proof of self, more paths of opportunities and evidence of aliens. I always receive proof of self and opportunities, but nothing on aliens. So, if aliens are real then they must not be benevolent because there’s a whole lot of support and satisfaction to be gain if they ever peeped in my direction. So, imo, the way to experience them is nothing like what some say “Just ask and they will reveal themselves to you”. I’ve done that plenty of time and nothing happens... not even a slight sign. So, why would an alien reveal themselves to you and not others?

Lately, I’ve been suspecting deceit when dealing with the alien subject because of the very energy attach to it. I look at what the information is doing for me and others and what it is not doing for me and others. It’s rather easy to see what’s happening simply by living in the moment questioning and observing everything. If only we would all exercise a bit more TRUE discernment the species will be better equip to deal with anything because their acumen will be enhanced, we will know what to do instead of guessing what to do. I rather know, not guess.

Before I started visiting sites like this I truly believed aliens existed, but after going over the material here and in other places I felt compel to further research the material until there was nothing left of it to be found. Almost every single time I was lead to either a hoax or more unconfirmed data. I don’t see how aliens could be such a hugh concern when there’s no evidence showing that it is. It may be important to a devious plot, thou. That idea seems to be more logical if you really think about it. Perhaps some of us are so broken down that we are making blind attempts at manifesting some heroes to save us, or maybe our minds are the keys to opening up portals for these beings to enter our reality.
I probably can hold some beliefs in E.D's before E.T's...but I will not dwell on that idea because there's no reason to...

Hmmm… being mindful is very important, to produce a reality based on the ideas of others is the world’s oldest trick. So ask yourself this “What’s on my mind”?

Peace

I approach what I believe by going with what adds up to me and adjusting it as I go along, instead of needing proof. Although I have no personal proof of aliens, based on the information that is out there, the existence of aliens adds up to me. As Flash pointed out, a number of Avalonians have talked about their contacts. Also there are thousands who have talked about being abducted by the Greys. There are also a number of interviews with Black Ops insiders and others who talk about alien contact. I use discernment to decide what adds up to me until I get more information, and I take into account the discrepencies between the information in different interviews and the reasons why some of it may be disinformation. There is a video of a William Cooper speech in which he basically lays out the formation of the shadow government and its contact with aliens, which really adds up to me. He cast some doubt on it later to try to prevent people from believing a false flag attack that would be blamed on aliens, in case that should happen in the future.

As far as contacting aliens, I have decided that I don't personally want to, unless there is disclosure. Based on the stories from abductees and even contactees with benevolent races, it sounds like it usually has a negative impact on people's lives.

[MBerger47]

"I’m finding it very interesting that people can have such in-depth discussions about things that have no foundation or a leg to stand on. How does someone talk with great confidence about something they can’t verify in any way shape or form?"

@Peace of Mind - This is a core tenet of Marshall's writings. If you don't have a true experience, you are standing on belief or faith - both of which are weak and will fail when you need strength to face the reality of Alien contact, climate change and economic collapse. The experience of Knowledge is available to anyone who is willing to apply themselves. Knowledge will open yourself to a true experience beyond belief, beyond mental arguments and beyond faith. It is Knowledge, Marshall advocates, that is our saving grace against the Alien Intervention. It can bring meaning and true purpose to our lives beyond the lost pursuits offered by culture, society and family. Discover your life purpose, discover inner truth, get with Knowledge. The book is free: http://www.StepsToKnowledge.com

[Freed Fox]

Faith is not weak, not real faith anyway. Heresay and speculation, on the other hand...

[Macbook]

Posted by Freed Fox (here)
Faith is not weak, not real faith anyway. Heresay and speculation, on the other hand...

You must have faith in Knowledge. Your faith is meant to keep your mind focused on a Greater Power that resides within all of us. It is this Power within you and around you that must be the focus and substance of your faith. How do you find this Greater Power? Take Steps to Knowledge.

Marshall Vian Summers states clearly in one of his books, "Greater Community Spirituality"
"To know what you must know, to see what you must see and to do what you must do, you must reach a greater vantage point in life. To reach this you must take the journey, a journey of many steps. The steps are in Steps to Knowledge."

[OnyxKnight]

First of all, I'd like to apologize if anyone was offended or felt unwelcome by what I said. That was not my intention, and everybody is welcome to argue their side of the story/point of view. Sometimes the combination of words I use does not reflect the state of mind I have, and it has happened more times that I can count, even here, on Avalon.

I had an issue with the topic at hand, and the contents of of certain side, and how they are argued, how they are supported, and for what reasons, while the other side is completely dismissed. I find that a big problem, because it lacks objectivity. And a lot of people have commended Mr. Summers because he uses a rational, logical, inquisitive, quite skeptical and objective look on things, especially the extraterrestrial matters. While I agree to a certain extent that this is good, in the case of Mr. Summers, I feel it has deviated into waters that rarely anybody inspects before drinking it up, without applying the same methods of skeptical inquiry and questioning, towards Mr. Summers, and his material, as well as those who have him the material he promotes. I will try to shed a light on this matter below.

Posted by wobbegong (here)
Well...IMO a lot are and a lot aren't.
You say that there is no shortage of any material, which is in contrast with most if not all of the data that circulates, like this, for example, found here http://www.peakprosperity.com/discus.../peak-minerals :
They say that a 'shortage of Rare Earth Metals Threatens Renewable Energy' because we will run out of the following resources in less than 40 years:.

One thing you have to understand is this: We currently do not have any real, complete statistical analysis of every possible resource this planets holds, natural or artificial even, to make any kinds of guesses, in how much time, what resource would be depleted. When I said, that there is no proof, or evidence for this, I was also alluding that we do not have the complete data, in order to draw any conclusions as to which resources, and how much of them we have right now, and how long they would last. Secondly, assuming there is a huge number of ETs as we previously agreed on, is visiting Earth, even the percentage of rare earth minerals and metals, of which we have on record that its here, its going to drastically diminish, and it won't take another few decades for it to happen, if ETs are involved. They probably would use those resources a lot faster then we do. We also don't have proof that it is extraterrestrials who are to blame that we have so little resources. And how do we know how much of those resources we have, when a great deal of them have shadow figures? (they remain official only in the private sector, not public sector).

One example would be oil and gas. You really think we nearing the end of such resources? The largest shadow deposit lies underground between the borders of USA and Canada. This is nothing out of the ordinary, simple fabrication of data. Create an illusion of something being scarce, skyrocket its price, make it necessary for basic living of the average Joe, people like it or not, pay money to acquire it (or pay money of certain parts, as you can put it), and a lot of money go to sponsor official and non-official projects, as well as construction of more and more underground facilities and cities. And considering they have a bit of a different infrastructure than we do, they need a lot more of it than us.

Same story for food and drinking water. We have people building their own hydroponic garden systems we so little financial backbone, yet the governments heed of imminent hunger strikes, yet they sleep on trillions of dollars, and have better technology at their disposal for creating systems that can work on state-size, not small, average-Joe's-house size. And water, last time I checked there was plenty of drinking water, but water companies decided it would be a good idea to privatize that, bottle it up, and put a price tag on it, and sell it to you. There is plenty of it around, trust me, even places that are on on official archives, but you will need money for it, and it wont be as "fresh" or natural as you got it before the privatization, in fact, in many cases, it can be damaging to your health. Also, we have the oceans. Do you know how much water there is in them? A simple desalination device can turn it from seawater to drinking water in under a minute. It wont cost you more than a few bucks to buy one, and you can always use it to create drinking water for those that cant afford it (at the time, or at all). I don't see how any of the official statements regarding these resources are factual, or that their shortage is attributed to extraterrestrial species utilizing them. Don't be so naive, please, you are all better than that.

Posted by wobbegong (here)
< 5 years Gallium (used for semiconductors, solar cells, MRI contrast agents)
Germanium (semiconductors, solar cells)

< 10 years Hafnium (computer chips, nuclear control rods)
Indium (solar cells and LCD’s)

< 15 years Platinum (jewellery, industrial catalysts, fuel cells, catalytic converters)

< 20 years Antimony (some pharmaceuticals and catalysts)
Arsenic (semiconductors, solar cells)
Silver (jewellery, industrial catalysts)

< 30 years Tantalum (cell phones, camera lenses)
Zinc (galvanizing)

< 40 years Tin (cans, solder)
Uranium (nuclear power)
They mention that extractable gold and lead are also getting scarce..

There is huge amounts of gold, silver, platinum, copper, diamonds and other precious minerals underground. But they don't reach the surface because the underground civilizations need them as well, and they have the priority to survive for now, not us (even though there is plenty for everyone, they need to maintain the scarcity problem on the surface, because they need a managing tool to maintain control.

By the way, the link you provided doesn't work.

Posted by wobbegong (here)
Very touchy ground you are treading here.
Ok for mistrust, but paranoia and xenophobia linked to our history of war...sure it's an effective example, but why use it against a book that simply preaches human unity and protection of our borders? It is our right to protect the borders of this planet and set our own rules of engagement.
You also mention our 'karmic quota': that is a subject that also appears in many of the ET messages we receive. I have nothing against the concept of Karma and I respect the Hindu Religion, but Karma has been used in the ET messages as an obvious tool for manipulation. Just like the Christian Religion always mentions our sins.

Its not the book just in question, I recently had the opportunity to watch the camelot video interview with him as well, it only confirmed what I was feeling before. I'm not sure if he does thet deliberately, or he really believes what he says, about the extraterrestrial factor in our cosmic backyard, but it is very untrue and misguided. And yes, I still read it like its xenophobic. When he paints pretty much everybody with the "they are here to use you and control you" brush, I don't see why should think twice before reacting. We have crazy people here, that if I read into it as tones which stir paranoia, irrational feat, distrust etc, for some guy it may have 10 times the effect it had on me. Next thing you know, he is contacted by some aliens, and he puts a bullet in them. There are people who are actively and very overtly displaing and voicing their disgust towards extraterrestrial life, no matter if they believe it is here, or that it hasn't arrived yet. There are blogs, there are TV shows, there are videos on internet, you can see their opinions. The last thing they need is the wrong picture of the universe stuck in them, and they may even turn on those who actually like aliens, or have had contact with them. So the contactees and abductees may be on the line here as well.

I mentioned karma just as a manner of speaking. In a sense, the last thing we need right now something negative of that type that would cut down any progress we made so far. I think I explained some place else, about certain aspects of karma, as physical laws in the universe, I'm not sure where it was, I'll try to find it for you. Whether or not ETs mention this, or actively push it, is the difference you should be looking for.

Posted by Abductee S (here)
If one looks at the actual data and reports in scientific circles, from not only the US but from others around the world, it seems they are in agreement. The earth is in danger, our resources are diminishing and the finite carrying capacity of the earth has been surpassed.

Where is the evidence for that? Numbers can be manipulated you know. Take a look at the comment I made above a few paragraphs.

Posted by Abductee S (here)
Technology itself will not correct this and has its own problems. It will take a change of heart and responsibility on a scale never before seen in our history. Much of what is needed is common sense, and some is not. Marshall Summers, in the many books he has put forth outlines and informs as to what we are dealing with, who are the players, where we are headed, and what must be done.

Actually, he mentioned very little. While I do have respect towards his desire to see humanity united, responsible, and mature (because that's what I would like to see too), he doesn't really say much about the current players, or the string-pullers from off-world. We can't deal with somebody we don't know much about and is as plain as the dolls on store windows. Very generic blanket definition was given for all ETs present here, and I don't like it. I have to disagree with him saying its beneficial when we have less details in front of us. Details gives you something to work with, while on the other hand, the Allies of Humanity, who also call themselves the Unseen Ones, all I know about them is that they give us a very twisted version of reality (no present visitor species has your best interests in mind, all are here for resources, resources are diminishing, no habitable planets out there, etc.), and we know practically nothing about these 'Allies'. Who are they, how come they haven't been found by now, anything else about them that would be beneficial to know. Instead, one big question mark. And they call themselves our 'Allies'. In order to deem somebody an ally, you need to know them well enough. And the only thing we know of them is that they are a free nation, that somehow had its share of luck, or smarts to figure things out and remain free, that they mean well and have our best interests in mind. And we have their word for it. What I don't understand is why Marshall's 'Allies of Humanity'/Unseen Ones are given more credibility, more recognition, then say, Alex Collier's, or any other contactee's extraterrestrial representatives?

Posted by Abductee S (here)
No one likes to face difficulty, work, letting go of assumptions and habits, but this must begin and spread quickly. To call reality "fear based" or "negative thinking" is foolish and blind. We need to wake up, be objective and face reality. We have the strength and ability within us to do this and many great things, which are so needed now and into the future.

Actually, I have every reason to call it that way, especially since many of you already started calling that a "reality", as if you have been around, our and about there yourselves, and seen that Mr. Summers is correct in his claims. This speaks volumes. Since when the claims of unseen ETs that differ from a slightly more general understanding of our exopolitical position, have become reality? If I didn't knew better, I'd call this an en mass hypnosis. You know what else I have stumbled across in his books? Repetitive sentences, over, and over, and over again. Anyone who has had a little brief introduction in human psychology, would tell you that its the basis for psychological manipulation and indoctrination. These methods are already used by the mainstream media and by the political gameplayers, and now I see it in the alternative media circles, and it worries me.

By pushing all ETs off, we are doing those who don't have our best interests in mind a big favor, we are pushing away our friends and those who help in one way or another here. I have a problem when an ET race presents everyone else with a a darker shade of grey and they paint themselves in white. They said they deserve the title of the angels because they are the only ones who would fit in that category. Those of you who have read that book, didn't that ring a bit odd to you? It did to me. They also had that talk about religions, and how ETs here are using them against us, and that we should find the true meanings in them and restore them in what they have once been, and that they are the only things that have kept from more progressive invasion to take place (what!?). Then there's Mr. Summers' talks about God. I don't know, but my contacts have told me to stay away from religion, and to find other means of self-empowerment, in my Higher and Hidden Self, and the force of willpower and determination. It doesn't sound like the ET interventionists Summers is talking about, since they have used religion to their own ends.

I find his rhetoric generally xenophobic and inducing distrust. I can see the need for caution, discernment and awareness, but we can't really go head-to head, when we engage the stars, to so many alien species. And since we turn down potential friends out there, we would be left alone. And I think I have said this before somewhere, but isolated species very rarely survive. Groups, whether based on trade, like Summers says, or data exchange at least, or mutual help in other forms, those are the only ones that survive. As you can see from materials available online, even the more negatively perceived groups present on Earth, are part of some form of grouping, is it an alliance of some sort, an association, a con/federation, commonwealth etc. - They had it figured out long time ago.

Posted by wavydome (here)
Onyx,

Perhaps the lighthearted should stay away from any discouraging words, but why would light hearts visit Avalon or Marshall's books?

Its not discouraging, its somewhat irritating, at least certain aspects of the material he presents. Its like somebody trying to convince me that what I had for breakfast last night was not a turkey sandwich but it was waffles. Like I don't know myself what happened yesterday, and at the same time trying to convince others in that same thing. But I understand, the lack of personal experience prevents somebody to filter things in more efficient manner, so in these cases, they have to lean more towards one side or the other. The reason its irritating is just that.

Put yourself in my shoes. For example, you went to the mall yesterday and its full of great products, and you forward this to other people, and then there is somebody like Summers that shows up, saying nope, if you have been there, you'd have seen that everything is closed, there was no stock there, etc. - I'm trying to explain why I have such a problem with this whole thing, as some might find it weird/strange that I'm engaged in the topic so fiercely.

Posted by wavydome (here)
I can agree with you on one big point: That Marshall's book might be interpreted as "the complete explanation of the entire multiverse and all conceivable ETs, EDs, etc"... I say one might (unfortunately) interpret his writings in this manner. I did not interpret his books in this way. No, no, no.

Well, good for you, because many that I know have read it, and many did interpret it that way. I refrained from any commentary until they read it and gave me their impression first. I'm just pleased its not solely me that felt that way about it, it would have been a problem, but a different kind of problem . He, or more precisely, the Allies of Humanity, present themselves that way (what you put in quotes), at least from the manner in which they speak.

Posted by wavydome (here)
Instead, i felt that Marshall's books described localized boundaries of universe, as a nominal whole. Marshall used the term "knowledge", to address higher realities, beyond the 'localizing' realities..... Marshall put this higher-infinite reality in an antiquated context, perhaps to reach a certain sector of people who are stuck in this bias.

The scarcity-abundance issue goes far beyond localized realities. I admit i am a conservationist. Remove all the polarity issues and familiar life vanishes. The veil might drop prematurely. However, the game is not over until it is over.

Here is a Camelot interview which caught my attention today: http://projectcamelot.org/dane_tops.html The issues involved are extensive and provide still another version of "saving earth from invaders". It is not for the light hearted. It is about, humanity self-resourcefulness, liberating the spirit, getting clear, saving humanity, tracking destiny. Alex Collier BTW is briefly mentioned near to the end.
(The interview was linked in today's Dimension of Scientology Thread)

It doesn't matter, local or intergalactic even, there is no such shortage of resources and worlds to populate/colonize. What do you mean about being conservationist?

Thanks for the interview, I'll give it a read soon.

Posted by Peace of Mind (here)
beware of the deceivers....

Although I agree with some of the things they say about spirituality, I've haven't received anything of use from either of them. I think some of these WB's use spirituality to promote their claims of aliens. I don’t see any validity in Summer’s or Collier’s claims. Perhaps those that have some beliefs in these two peoples reports can point out a few examples of truth for those of us that can’t seem to find any of it, or any form of connections to it, that would mean a great deal to a lot of us.

What sort of validity do you need? Of the specific aliens Collier or Summers have contacted, or extraterrestrial life in general? And in what form do you want this validity package?

Posted by Peace of Mind (here)
I’m finding it very interesting that people can have such in-depth discussions about things that have no foundation or a leg to stand on. How does someone talk with great confidence about something they can’t verify in any way shape or form? I have even greater concerns for those that follow and support this hype without the need of evidence, the hear say seems to be good enough. This is not a good look.

Well, I'm sure if one has evidence, they wouldn't bring them up on a forum, to satisfy a random requester's wishes to be persuaded into something. You make it sound like people are expected to deal around evidential material like its a deck of cards and we are on card table ready to play poker or something. You don't need contactees to find out the truth about extraterrestrial presence here on Earth (whether ancient or contemporary). The fact that you seem to depend on contactees or abductees as groups who are in some way obligated to convince you beyond any shadow of a doubt in what they had experienced, and that this aspect is the only source of such definite confirmation just speaks a lot on how much you are genuinely interested in this topic from a truthseeker's viewpoint. If you can't find in A, B, or C, there is the rest of the alphabet to look for, if you have the time, motivation, and astute discernment of course.

Posted by Peace of Mind (here)
If these so called aliens are real, what do we really expect them to do for us? Shouldn’t we be more concern about the state and condition of the Human race? In my mind I don’t think any intelligent entity from another world will care much about a specie that exhibits very little care/urgency for themselves, or their own planet. I don’t think they have much respect for us because we allow ourselves to be ruled unjustly by a handful of deceitful cowards. If I was an alien I’m sure of what I would be thinking about this place called Earth. I would want to take it over for one reason or another, or feel a bit of disgust while observing the wasteful divine spirit of man.

We don't really have to expect anything from them or they from us. But the reality of the situation is that we do expect a lot from them in general (at least the portion of the population on Earth who hold the notion that we indeed are being visited by other alien species), and they in turn expect much from us too. And we are not that interested in the real problems that face our world, so they are the ones who keep remind us of our mess that we still haven't dealt with. We should be the concerned ones, not them, you are right there, but the reason of asking the question is the wrong one. And exactly because you think we hold no potential, that we generally don't care about us or the planet, that because we are ruled unjustly, we deserve nothing but the worst from ETs, and that if you were them you would either be disgusted by us or try to take over us, for one reason or another .... that reason is exactly why some ETs choose to contact somebody else, rather then a person who holds such views (like you). Most contactees who are contacted today, at least by the association of civilizations I'm familiar with, are picked at random from a certain large group. The filtered ones are those who think along the lines of you and the like. You have to change the way you view things if you wish to be contacted one day.

Posted by Peace of Mind (here)
The cosmos is probably not what Nasa or our controlled learning institutions teach us to believe. I’ve poke a few holes into some of the theories regarding the cosmos, there are some glaring discrepancies and inconsistencies within the teachings of outer space. I’m very much into the sciences. But, my main reasons for not believing in aliens are simple.

Oh, so you do not believe in the existence of aliens at all? Wow, I didn't think I'd run into such a person, not on these boards at least. Would like to elaborate your view, and why it is so? Also, I'd like to hear about the discrepancies and inconsistencies of NASA and others, as I'm into much of the same things as well . Maybe we would find common ground in those areas, if not on the ET issue.

Posted by Peace of Mind (here)
EX: I’m a very outgoing person, I’ve extended my hand and heart in many ways and sometimes I even extend my own neck without the fear of it being severed. I along with others are fighting for the homeless/ handicap and mentally ill while uplifting them. Charities are being created for various nonprofits. Protesting/demonstration/seminars/summits/ many random engagements are formed and attended for the purpose of equality and human advancement. Everyone from the children to the elderly is forming long overdue connections and the ideas are fantastic because the generation gaps are being filled within these meetings.

Still, every night I sit in my backyard meditating and asking the universe to provide me with more proof of self, more paths of opportunities and evidence of aliens. I always receive proof of self and opportunities, but nothing on aliens. So, if aliens are real then they must not be benevolent because there’s a whole lot of support and satisfaction to be gain if they ever peeped in my direction. So, imo, the way to experience them is nothing like what some say “Just ask and they will reveal themselves to you”. I’ve done that plenty of time and nothing happens... not even a slight sign. So, why would an alien reveal themselves to you and not others?

There are 7 billion people on this planet (at least surface wise). Many of these beings go through training before contacting beings from other civilizations, and these trainings can last decades in some cases. They have to be best in human psychology and behavior, linguists, biologists / medics, historians, have a lot of patience, willpower, warm personalities, charisma, outstanding communication abilities and understanding, everything at the same time and same package. The general notion is that in alien cultures, beings are born virgin-like, and stay virgin-like and grow to become aced in every possible domain of knowledge and skills we can think of. Sadly (for some I'm sure), this is not the case. They are people like us, and neither are they born perfect, nor do they become perfect as they grow, and they have much to prove to their own species, because they find that interstellar politics, and inter-species contact are of the most honorable positions one has out there, and they have much to achieve before even considering to be eligible for contacting members of other cultures. Can you say the same for human beings here on Earth? Be honest. If we would go through the same process, out of those 7 billion, barely few hundred would make the cut. Then, where would you send those few hundred? You send some 8-9 on a planet like Earth, with 7 billion people, where most if not all who would know there are members of alien culture on visit there, would like to be contacted by them, just like you. I'm trying to paint you the picture of the reality of contact, I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. ETs are not here to grant wishes or fill somebody's dreams (that may happen in certain humans they contact, but it is not the reason they do it).

You may be observed and directed or aided by them in your endeavors, its quite possible, just no direct communication. You sound like a nice and caring person (with a couple of wrong views lol), but that something that would qualify a person as contact material. In fact, there are no qualifications, other then having negative views on certain things. We are no more special then you are, being picked at random at one point in time speaks loudly enough for that. If I could, I'd pass this on to somebody else, but its not that simple. If they choose somebody, they stay with them until somebody does not wish to be contacted anymore. Is that happens, they would transfer that individual to some other place to do another random pick from a large group of select individuals.

Posted by Peace of Mind (here)
Lately, I’ve been suspecting deceit when dealing with the alien subject because of the very energy attach to it. I look at what the information is doing for me and others and what it is not doing for me and others. It’s rather easy to see what’s happening simply by living in the moment questioning and observing everything. If only we would all exercise a bit more TRUE discernment the species will be better equip to deal with anything because their acumen will be enhanced, we will know what to do instead of guessing what to do. I rather know, not guess.

Before I started visiting sites like this I truly believed aliens existed, but after going over the material here and in other places I felt compel to further research the material until there was nothing left of it to be found. Almost every single time I was lead to either a hoax or more unconfirmed data. I don’t see how aliens could be such a hugh concern when there’s no evidence showing that it is. It may be important to a devious plot, thou. That idea seems to be more logical if you really think about it. Perhaps some of us are so broken down that we are making blind attempts at manifesting some heroes to save us, or maybe our minds are the keys to opening up portals for these beings to enter our reality.
I probably can hold some beliefs in E.D's before E.T's...but I will not dwell on that idea because there's no reason to...

Hmmm… being mindful is very important, to produce a reality based on the ideas of others is the world’s oldest trick. So ask yourself this “What’s on my mind”?

Peace

Well, giving more validity to EDs than ETs ... I dunno how to respond to that. I'd use the same question you used, where's the evidence of EDs?

The rest is your conclusion on which you are entitled to, and I respect that. If you feel that there is no truth to that matter, then that's your choice to make, and conclusion to arrive at.

[apokalypse]

Marshall Vian Summers is more of channeling while Alex Collier is an Contactees who have face to face contact. I find it interesting that Summers unable to tell who are these beings or where they come from that he talking with...if was me i will try to find out who are these beings or located and have face to face contact.

i just can't accept to be the sheep following orders only listen which many of these people so called Channeling are doing.

[Abductee S]

Who are the Allies of Humanity, why don't they show themselves or tell who they are...many questions that are easily answered when you study the Briefings and Marshall's material. I include (2) intro pages from Book 3 of The Allies of Humanity. These words were received and spoken by Marshall. Their origin is the Angelic Assembly that oversees our world. This assembly has made it possible for the Allies (who are physical beings, although alien) to communicate to Marshall the Briefings without interference or interception by the Intervention. The Allies refer to these Angels as the Unseen Ones.

"Who Are the Allies of Humanity?

Humanity is not alone in the universe, for the universe you will encounter is full of intelligent life. Living in a well-inhabited and long-established region of space, your world will find itself in a greater neighborhood.

Within this neighborhood are many powerful nations that have created vast networks of trade and commerce that are tightly governed. Most nations in this region of space are dependent on these networks for the essential resources they need to support their technology and, in some cases, essential resources just to provide the basic requirements of life.

The world, therefore, is not in some remote and unexplored region of the universe. Your proximity to this great establishment of life gives you certain advantages and certain disadvantages. Your advantage is that war and conquest are suppressed in this region of space. They are suppressed to maintain order and to provide security and stability for the larger networks of nations and their commerce and trade with one another.

After going through long eras of war, competition and conflict, these larger networks have been established. In this region of space, war is suppressed and outright conquest is not allowed. If a nation wishes to gain advantage and influence in another world, such as in an emerging world like your own, they must use more subtle means and employ other agents to carry out such an intervention.

You are facing a non-human universe where freedom is rare, a universe that will seem foreign and even hostile to your presence should you escape the bounds of this solar system. Here you will find that you have few friends and allies. But to your advantage, there are a network of free nations in this region of space who do not participate in these vast networks of trade and commerce. They have, over time and through great effort, established their insulation and their freedom to function without outside interference. For it is always difficult for a free nation to exist around unfree nations. It is a delicate situation and has been an ongoing challenge for those free races whom you may consider to be the Allies of Humanity.

It is important to have this larger perspective. Otherwise, you will not understand what restrains your potential allies and why they are not interfering in the world today. They have, through secret means, sent an expedition to be near the Earth to witness the alien Intervention that is taking place here—an Intervention carried on by more unscrupulous races and organizations who seek to gain control of the world and its people through subtle and persuasive means. Your allies are here to provide wisdom, guidance and the perspective that humanity will need to comprehend the neighborhood of space into which you are emerging and what advantages and disadvantages there are. Indeed, there are great disadvantages because other worlds view your world with envy, and they see humanity in its warlike, divided state destroying the wealth and the value of this world. This, more than anything else, has led to the Intervention that is occurring here today.
Their expedition that is here to observe this Intervention and to report on its activities and intentions is functioning here without the awareness of the free nations’ governments. This is very important to understand. For these governments could be held accountable for the fact that humanity is gaining benefit from these free nations, which violates the agreements that the free nations have established—agreements of non-interference in the affairs of the Greater Community. Such is the price that they have had to pay to keep the Greater Community out of their regions and to avoid ongoing interference and attempts at persuasion that have plagued them for so very long. It is for this reason that the allies will not describe themselves, give their names or speak of their home worlds. For this expedition is functioning to serve humanity in secret, without the awareness or approval of greater powers, even without the awareness and approval, officially speaking, of the governments of their own nations. It is a delicate situation. To understand this, you have to really consider the difficulty of establishing and maintaining freedom amongst greater powers, where freedom is suppressed and avoided. It is a problem that humanity will have to face as it proceeds, as the human family emerges into a Greater Community of intelligent life. How does a race such as yours maintain its freedom and self-determination amidst the presence of powerful and persuasive forces who will seek to undermine your confidence, your unity and your courage?

It is not a battle of weapons. It is not a battle of military might. It is a battle of will and intentions, a battle that is being played out on the mental environment—a great environment of influence where more powerful minds can influence weaker ones, an environment that humanity knows very little about. The free nations in this part of the universe seek to promote freedom wherever they can. They view your world as showing great promise because spirituality and religion have not been destroyed or forgotten here. They see that the power of Knowledge, the greater spiritual power, is still alive in individuals, despite humanity’s grave mistakes and foolish activities.

The Allies of Humanity have sent a series of Briefings into the world to advise and to prepare humanity for its engagement with the Greater Community. These Briefings present information that no one on Earth could create or know for themselves. They give a perspective that humanity does not presently have regarding the prospects for Contact and the consequences of Contact. The Briefings correct many of humanity’s false assumptions and uninformed beliefs—assumptions and beliefs that make you vulnerable to foreign manipulation and persuasion. The Briefings themselves encourage humanity’s independence in the universe and the importance of not allowing foreign nations to establish their interests here and foster dependence upon their foreign technology.

This is a great service to an unwary and unsuspecting humanity, who believes the universe is either a great empty place awaiting exploration or that it is filled with benign and ethical races of beings who would be eager to assist humanity in its quest for technological solutions and greater power."

[wavydome]

Posted by OnyxKnight (here)

Posted by wavydome (here)
Onyx,

Perhaps the lighthearted should stay away from any discouraging words, ...

Its not discouraging, its somewhat irritating, .......

Put yourself in my shoes. For example............

...............

Onyx, Thanks for extending the discussion to new heights. (If i can read it all). I cannot do expert formatting, so this lumps together my response to your Qs (addressed to me):

I have long accepted the practice of conveying 'acknowledgement' but without compulsory agreement. I simply acknowledge without need of membership status and while maintaining some personal exceptions.

Scarcity-Abundance implies: experimental worlds with polarity- duality -karmic rules.... Conservationism can imply: self-resourcefulness, good resource management, solar architecture, living lightly on the land..... picturesque....

I oppose scarcity produced by dissonant industrial waste streams, governance by extortion, bribery, treachery, etc...

The rabbit hole welcomes proof that better games readily await 'us'
[who?, when?, what?, where?]

Sign me up for a tour

[S-L]

Posted by apokalypse (here)
Marshall Vian Summers is more of channeling while Alex Collier is an Contactees who have face to face contact. I find it interesting that Summers unable to tell who are these beings or where they come from that he talking with...if was me i will try to find out who are these beings or located and have face to face contact.

i just can't accept to be the sheep following orders only listen which many of these people so called Channeling are doing.

What I particularly appreciate about Marshall's work with the Allies of Humanity is that they are forever pushing for us to reclaim our relationship with our inner awareness and Knowledge. Words or even face to face meetings with aliens would not be enough. Have we not all met people face to face that deceived us? How can we possibly discern the intentions of beings, even face to face, that can manipulate thought?

We need to cultivate our own inner awareness. Our Source cannot be tampered with - even by the alien intervention. The Allies of Humanity continuously state that our best hope is to become adept in this regard. This is why gathering information is only a beginning. Undertaking a true spiritual practice is absolutely key. Gathering knowledge is not an adequate means of dealing with this alien intervention. We must reconnect to Source and tap into the spiritual power that underlies the universe. It is humanity's best hope.

[Flash]

Onyx:

One of the best exercise in diplomacy and gentleness I have seen you doing here (although I always find you quite polite and thorough) up to now. Chapeau!!! Give it another 20 years practice, as Aliens do, and even more, and I will be willing to name you representative for the earth. lol

Your arguments regarding Summers stand the road for me Onyx. Thanks for explaining.

Love
Flash

[Flash]

S-L: What I particularly appreciate about Marshall's work with the Allies of Humanity is that they are forever pushing for us to reclaim our relationship with our inner awareness and Knowledge. Words or even face to face meetings with aliens would not be enough. Have we not all met people face to face that deceived us? How can we possibly discern the intentions of beings, even face to face, that can manipulate thought?

We need to cultivate our own inner awareness. Our Source cannot be tampered with - even by the alien intervention. The Allies of Humanity continuously state that our best hope is to become adept in this regard. This is why gathering information is only a beginning. Undertaking a true spiritual practice is absolutely key. Gathering knowledge is not an adequate means of dealing with this alien intervention. We must reconnect to Source and tap into the spiritual power that underlies the universe. It is humanity's best hope.

I do agree with your point S-L and it is primarily what hit me in Summers reading. In this, he is right. However, no needs for the Allies to tell us, this is self obvious, but I do appreciate the input.
What I did not like as much is the scramble feeling of not knowing who these people are, and all the fuzziness around it. Also, the feeling of guruism that is left in my guts when I finish reading. Some truth, mixed with some less truthfull stuff, and this may not be intentional. At least, it is the feeling I get. imo

[OnyxKnight]

Posted by Abductee S (here)
Who are the Allies of Humanity, why don't they show themselves or tell who they are...many questions that are easily answered when you study the Briefings and Marshall's material. I include (2) intro pages from Book 3 of The Allies of Humanity. These words were received and spoken by Marshall. Their origin is the Angelic Assembly that oversees our world. This assembly has made it possible for the Allies (who are physical beings, although alien) to communicate to Marshall the Briefings without interference or interception by the Intervention.
....................................
This is a great service to an unwary and unsuspecting humanity, who believes the universe is either a great empty place awaiting exploration or that it is filled with benign and ethical races of beings who would be eager to assist humanity in its quest for technological solutions and greater power."

This doesn't tell me anything Abductee S. This is the same thing I read in the first book, it just repeats itself. And it doesn't answer my questions at all. They already broke some rules by being here at all, why not comfort us with more details? Say, they didn't have to name themselves, but they can name the more potentially dangerous groups present here on Earth - They didn't do that. They could tell us step-by-step guide to restore our sovereignty - nothing precise for that. They could tell us where we should look for other free nations (they seem to be doing just fine cooperating with each other, if they are truly our allies, why isn't our world part of their network? Why don't they contact the white hats in the governments and try to explain the situation? Why don't they show us where we should go to be able to colonize other worlds if God forbid, **** here happens and we ought to relocate and survive. Nothing of that? Why don't they show us how they managed to stay free? Just saying we should be cautious about these alien races is not enough to gain our freedom, we need something to work with here. If they did it, maybe they could give us step-by-step guide. If they are far and few in between, and still exist as civilizations, then probably they are very powerful - The trade routs of different alliances, and the ban on war only applies to those within the alliances, it does not apply for free races. It begs the question - how did they survive? If they have, obvious as it is, then they must be very powerful, why don't they help us? They could break the incoming traffic of other ETs, and we can deal with our problems here on Earth (no real intervention on us as species is done this way).

Even Summers says it himself: "Keeping the mystery is part of the deception". The 'Allies of Humanity' are a mystery too, we know practically nothing about them.

Sorry, I remain skeptical. And there are more reasons for this too.

1 - Allegedly all alien races are here for self-interest ("bad" in other words). Many people's experiences tell otherwise. They can't fool all of us, all of the time. And that time for me was practically a lifetime;

2 - No mention of more dangerous groups, and what we should do if we oppose, and they retaliate. In other words, they pose as 'Allies', but are not willing to give us the enemy;

3 - They would plunge resources here, yet there are 50 times more resources on the other planets in our Solar system, and beyond (there are 15 rogue worlds roaming the space between us and Proxima Centauri, our nearest star, all are rocky, and composed of iron-silicate cores). This is anti-logical;

4 - The nearest, presently uninhabited, but habitable worlds, without need for terraforming, that is part of nobody's territorial claim, and benevolent human presence would have zero impact on its natural state, can be found less than 12 light years away in the constellation Indus. In astronomical scale, its practically in our own backyard. I've seen this with my own eyes, so its hard to put that aside, in favor of somebody's alien contact information that says there are no available worlds in the entire local sector of this galaxy (that I doubt is only 12 light years in radius);

5 - If competition is raw reality out there, and these groups would even battle for other worlds and resources, given there was no ban on war, then why would the extraterrestrial groups from Alpha Centauri and Procyon offer entire worlds full with resources for us to settle, when we are deemed ready for it (so that we don't go 12 light years away to settle a planet, Alpha Centauri and Procyon are closer)? I've talked about this a lot before. Some of the humans that were taken, live there now, as part of human colonies. This doesn't sound like some of the ETs the 'Allies of Humanity' are so eager to convince us are interacting here;

6 - Telepathic and empathic link cannot produce lies I'm afraid. You feel their presence, their intentions, motives, feelings, thoughts. You can't fake these things, you can't fake the way you feel about somebody, if the communication is empathic, not language based. I've never sensed anything remotely negative or suspicious in my interaction with them, especially the humanoids. There has been a sense of doubt, confusion, reluctance, shame, arrogance from other species, mainly non-humanoid ones, but nothing more negative other than these things, everything has been positive. Am I to brush that off?

7 - They push religion. One big red flag for me. Angelic forces, angelic voices, religion as the key to our survival etc. - No, sorry;

Posted by S-L (here)
What I particularly appreciate about Marshall's work with the Allies of Humanity is that they are forever pushing for us to reclaim our relationship with our inner awareness and Knowledge. Words or even face to face meetings with aliens would not be enough. Have we not all met people face to face that deceived us? How can we possibly discern the intentions of beings, even face to face, that can manipulate thought?

We need to cultivate our own inner awareness. Our Source cannot be tampered with - even by the alien intervention. The Allies of Humanity continuously state that our best hope is to become adept in this regard. This is why gathering information is only a beginning. Undertaking a true spiritual practice is absolutely key. Gathering knowledge is not an adequate means of dealing with this alien intervention. We must reconnect to Source and tap into the spiritual power that underlies the universe. It is humanity's best hope.

Well then, you just show that you can't be objective about this.

What Summers and his "Allies" aliens say is no different than what Collier or the Zeneteans say, in regards to humanity, the control imposed here, and the need to wake up, and act on the injustice done to us, unification, call for freedom etc.

You choose only one side as the true one, for reasons only you would know.

The 'Allies' haven't offered anything so far, other than a slightly twisted version of reality. How do we know they mean well, when we know nothing about them? I said it before and I'll say it again, if you want to know who you are dealing with, you need to get to know them. For all I know, they could be using this as a means to get us to not trust anyone, and induce difficulty in our emergence as a space-faring species. Isolated species rarely survive (its a natural law).

Posted by Flash (here)
that being said,

they are training some human to have open wars with aliens, Onyx, in the earth belly some humans are being trained by paranoi psychopaths? God we are arrogant, to think we can win this and that war is better than diplomacy.

Where did you learn about this? Do you know more about the PTB plans regarding this?.

Yeah, its a complicated situation. Somebody else asked me a similar question, i think it was on my thread with the experiences, so I will answer both your question and theirs, there in my thread. I'd derail the topic if I answer it here.

And I got this from the last brief exchange I had with alien and human contacts.

Posted by MBerger47 (here)
@Peace of Mind - This is a core tenet of Marshall's writings. If you don't have a true experience, you are standing on belief or faith - both of which are weak and will fail when you need strength to face the reality of Alien contact, climate change and economic collapse. The experience of Knowledge is available to anyone who is willing to apply themselves. Knowledge will open yourself to a true experience beyond belief, beyond mental arguments and beyond faith. It is Knowledge, Marshall advocates, that is our saving grace against the Alien Intervention. It can bring meaning and true purpose to our lives beyond the lost pursuits offered by culture, society and family. Discover your life purpose, discover inner truth, get with Knowledge. The book is free: http://www.StepsToKnowledge.com

And how do we know if we have a true experience? For those who have no experience, under what determining factors do they adopt other people's experiences as true?

Belief and faith are not present in my case. They can only be applied by other people who have not gone through the same thing. but in the case of Summers, its more faith rather than knowledge. He had a download of information, no presence, no sense of character, motivation, intentions, absence of individual thoughts and emotions/feelings. He said so himself. If I didn't know better, I'd say he was talking to a machine.

Posted by wobbegong (here)
I really don't see why you should be so defensive and accuse me of all this. I have my opinion, perhaps you missed my post where I answered his points (I actually had not listed his points next to my reply so I'll do that now and wrap his points in quotes), these are my opinions, I am not telling anyone that they don't know what they are talking about.
I actually did have some questions (at the bottom) that were not answered.

Sorry If I made you feel uncomfortable too. Of course you should hold your opinion. All I'm saying and pointing out is how some people here fail to be objective about this matter. If they apply filter factors in one case, they don't use the same in another case, or its something else that seems contradictory. I'm just amazed that so many would adopt without question whatever Summers says, and it just proves me right yet again - that more and more people feel distrust and animosity towards the extraterrestrial question, so perhaps this is why they would adopt such views more easily, rather than others. What worries me is the degree to which some people devote to his material, borderline fanatic behavior.

Posted by wobbegong (here)
…true that accepting that at least 1% of the UFO reports are real (which at this point is quite generally accepted), means that we have a large number of ETs with advanced technology and high intelligence visiting us.

That is exactly the issue: What are they doing here?

I've explained some of their motivations, intentions, agendas, of many groups that are here, on my thread. Significant portion of the material coincides with what other contactees and whistleblowers have said/are saying. In case you are interested and this was not a rhetorical question lol.

Most are just visiting here, coming from distant places, and checking out this oddity called humanity, living on this beautiful world, before going out their own way. Our solar system is in many ways special, its one of the last places where a confirmed presence and activity of the Genesis Spheres was recorded, and it also possess three important, permanent "space corridors". One small, leading to the opposite end of the galaxy, placing you in the middle of the Crux-Scutum Arm of the Milky Way. The other two are one leading to the Andromeda galaxy, and another one further away leading to the Triangulum galaxy. So of course we would be of such importance to other alien cultures, and a very good reason to visit. The only other inter-galactic corridor is in the intermediate space between the core systems of the Orion Group, and not many would like to enter that region of space.

Posted by wobbegong (here)
We surely haven’t assessed their need for resources and have no tools for doing it, therefore considering a need for metal and water is fair, but look at what goes into our own ‘primordial’ computers and imagine what they would need for their advanced technology.

So, again, beyond this we have some answers or demonstrations given to us by Ets themselves…who do we listen to?

Well, of course they need resources, but there is no scarcity of resources out there on other planets, that we feel threatened by their presence. Plus, I have seen where they take some of these resources, our planet is of no such interest.

Lets say what Summers says its true. We would need proof that ETs do it in order to call them on it and demand that they stop what they do and leave this star system. How do we find such proof?

Posted by wobbegong (here)
They may also be harvesting around other asteroid belts but it doesn’t matter: they are here.
All the technology these numerous races display implies a high level of civilization out there, therefore the existence of rules, including rules against a violent takeover of another planet – ok, it’s an assumption, but who wouldn’t agree? Imagine if there weren’t such rules.

There are none such rules. A civilization doesn't necessarily share human type of psychology, philosophy, morals, ethics, and many other views of the universe, and life, the way we (and a significant other groups of species) do.

A group imposes the rules and threatens action if they are not abided. For example, the association of civilizations that I talk about in my experiences are for the most part, non-interventionist. They consider mass contact and help a form of intervention and are not keen on doing so just yet. They give certain species designations/ratings in order for the members of the association to know who they are dealing with (imagine color codes of purple, blue, green, yellow, orange ... red). We had a status of experiment once (research status, not unlike many other garden/conservation/lab worlds out there), then switched to contaminated (regressive groups infiltration and manipulation), and quarantine status (attempts of contaminated species to leave planet) - this happened with the advance of space technology. Others are rated as potentially risky, dangerous, or hazardous. Imagine somebody code red appears here and wants to have their way with us? They would sit there while we are annihilated? Our planet might be still under quarantine (unsuccessful one though), but the solar system has been declared a protectorate location since 2003 and there are many craft around the Solar system placed in spherical formation around it, preventing other unwanted groups from reaching this place, whether their intentions are focused only on the planet, the animal life, us, or just the other planets in our system or the permagate wormhole tree we have embedded here.

Posted by wobbegong (here)
this is not a case where if they wanted us they could have taken over long ago. When a violent takeover is not permitted the only alternative is clandestine work in order to penetrate the fabric of another society: it takes time.

It takes time if its few of you, like the "negative" elements on Earth right now. Otherwise not really, they have been here since the age of Atlantis and Lemuria. If they haven't completed their invasive tactics by now, that would only mean they are incompetent.

Posted by wobbegong (here)
The Allies’ books don’t label any of them ‘good’ or ‘bad’, but make it clear that any race present here does not have our best interest at heart, therefore will damage our development. I find it logical to believe that a foreign race that travels and stays here to that extent is doing it for self serving purposes. It’s true that we are not that special, and that’s why all this movement in our skyes is not for the well being of our so-special race. All our dramas are in fact a great breach for anyone to enter, find allegiances, exacerbate some of the conflicts in favor of their allegiances and slowly take over.

See, that's where the problem lies. There are some here who are practically not interfering with anything on Earth, and others who control our very key points of power, order and authority. Why are both described as having negative impact on us? I find THAT suspicious.

If they were generous enough to name names, we would know who we are dealing with. When they are noticed by a insider agent, a contactee, or an ordinary person, who happens to run into them, they would know what to say, what to do, whether or not to trust them. Toying with generic characterization is NOT helpful. On the contrary actually.

And yes, we are special. We are a walking genetic mash of 24 species, spiritually a lot more progressed than many others out there, we also represent possibly the last fragments of consciousness of the great semi-mythical Progenitors, our solar system displaying characteristics of artificiality and not naturally emergent cosmic phenomenon, and the solar system where all these crazy stuff are found, including us, has three permanent, stable wormhole networks, two of which lead to other galaxies. I'd say that makes us and our piece of cosmic territory damn well important and special.

Posted by wobbegong (here)
..OnxyKnight, your following statement:

(OnyxKnight)
...Last I heard was that they are just trying to prevent any more negativity spawning from groups who want to get to Earth, there are some who try to restore certain natural habitats that are affected by human negative influence, and getting human abductees and babies who were never to be seen again to another world where they could grow unaffected by the crap this world offers. Especially the younger ones. They are doing us a great favor with this since they are breaking the tabula rasa cycle system that has been set in place here on Earth. ...

They are removing some of the regressive groups from Earth, if they sense there won't be any other negative consequences. ...

I know your interpretation of it is a positive one, but IMO it’s quite a suspicious avenue they are treading.
Do they really say that they are:
a) removing babies and young people from earth and giving them a better chance somewhere else? (or rescuing ones abducted by negative races?)

They were already abducted, and not to be returned, by some regressive groups. They think sending them back here would be non-beneficial. Limited understanding and knowledge, returning them to a mental recycling system where they wont know much of past lives, getting them back exposed to negative energies, radiation, wi-fi, satellite frequencies, GM'd food that contains affects certain gene markers, polluted water and air, mass indoctrination and propaganda, etc ... Its like putting a specimen that shows great potential and its not "sick" yet, back to a zone deemed under "quarantine". Of course I would look at it in a positive way. I don't know why anyone would see it differently.

Posted by wobbegong (here)
b) removing regressive groups of people from earth so that they don’t contaminate civilization?

No, they are removing regressive groups of extraterrestrials who are found to have entered in some way this Solar system, or have opened wormhole links near Earth. The regressive human groups are our own problem to deal with. They deal with us enough in space as it is.

Posted by wobbegong (here)
Even if the intention was good, I say it’s undue interference with the development of a world.

Would you rather let the other aliens who took them against their will to do with them all sorts of things, have them? Or have them the rescuers return those people and children here? They are already made aware of aliens, they are already culturally contaminated to a degree, returning them serves no purpose other than a slow and agonizing torture, living as slaves. I think the alternative is far better, living in a more progressed society. Try to put yourself in their shows, and faced with these facts, what would your morals tell you to do, knowing what you know?

Posted by wobbegong (here)
But I believe it’s a very suspicious activity. The Allies’ books warn us against this…back to the issue on ‘need fro biological material’. They say Ets are taking humans because their bodies’ bio-materials are a resource they need.
This would also be an interesting insight for discussion in the Horus-Ra or abductions thread.

I've seen how these people are treated. They are not used as lab rats, in fact, they are more integrated in their society than they have been here, in human society. I have been asked for genetic a blood samples, yes, but "asked" is the key word here. It was never something done against my will, I did it on free choice. Some are trying to find means where we ourselves can repair the genetic damage done to us many thousands of years ago, others need some of our genetic material to improve their own genetics (some are facing genetic stagnation, and other genetic problems), and since we share some of the materials with them, if you give them permission, they'd take it. We match to a degree because we were their experiment after all.

I find this pretty much in contrast with other groups, who have learned to feed on humans like cattle. I'd say this is a big difference between treatment from one or another group. Yet, they are all painted with the same color in Summers' books. By the way, I think its due time I visit that thread and read it, I keep running into it but haven't read it yet.

Posted by wobbegong (here)
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So I may be right or wrong or whatever but this is my view and those were my questions, nothing offensive, just a discussion.
What I regret is that you label people as ones that 'had zero experience' and give them no right to question and discuss.
Nobody here is on so high a pedestal where they cannot be politely challenged.

I used the wrong combination of words. My initial point back then was - why would somebody with no experience of the sort, choose which contactee to believe, and why Summers of all of them, considering the low detail and absence of actual aliens etc. I didn't communicate the though correctly.

Posted by apokalypse (here)
in preparation for contact i think few things keep in mind and these are what i think. Keep distance and keep some space during any contact, they are not gods/God should never be worship, they more advance than us doesn't mean they always right, their proposal for new system for planet earth might fits them but not for us. not only listen to one race but multiple of race...

This is a good advice Apokalypse. In fact, many of the groups would actually feel a bit insulted to be thought of as deities or gods. They don't share the same psychology and Ego construction like we do.

Others on the other hand, would be very pleased if we did so. Those are the ones we need to worry about, since they DID play the role of Gods in the early days of mankind. They obviously love the role.

Posted by Freed Fox (here)
Faith is not weak, not real faith anyway. Heresay and speculation, on the other hand...

Faith in most cases is based on heresay and speculation .

[Flash]

Posted by Flash (here)
that being said,

Onyx: they are training some human to have open wars with aliens, Onyx, in the earth belly some humans are being trained by paranoi psychopaths? God we are arrogant, to think we can win this and that war is better than diplomacy.

Flash: Where did you learn about this? Do you know more about the PTB plans regarding this?.

Onyx: Yeah, its a complicated situation. Somebody else asked me a similar question, i think it was on my thread with the experiences, so I will answer both your question and theirs, there in my thread. I'd derail the topic if I answer it here.

And I got this from the last brief exchange I had with alien and human contacts.

Thanks Onyx, waiting patiently to see the answer in your thread.

Flash

[wobbegong]

Posted by OnyxKnight (here)
First of all, I'd like to apologize if anyone was offended or felt unwelcome by what I said. That was not my intention, and everybody is welcome to argue their side of the story/point of view.
...
I don't see how any of the official statements regarding these resources are factual, or that their shortage is attributed to extraterrestrial species utilizing them. Don't be so naive, please, you are all better than that.
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By the way, the link you provided doesn't work.
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Where is the evidence for that? Numbers can be manipulated you know. Take a look at the comment I made above a few paragraphs.
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Put yourself in my shoes. For example, you went to the mall yesterday and its full of great products, and you forward this to other people, and then there is somebody like Summers that shows up, saying nope, if you have been there, you'd have seen that everything is closed, there was no stock there, etc. - I'm trying to explain why I have such a problem with this whole thing, as some might find it weird/strange that I'm engaged in the topic so fiercely.
...

No problem at all with me, like I said, I knew that you meant that we're just not going to convince each other, and I pretty much agree with that, so I won't keep insisting on my POV versus yours. I'll limit my reply to just a couple of things related to the parts I quoted.

The resource topic, yes, it would be naïve to think it's ET's are doing any depletion, it's definitely humans that presently are doing that with consumeristic and growth oriented policies that should, instead aim at stability. About the factuality of the info, your post definitely points to the fact that 'some simple facts' that begun this conversation are definitely not simple and often not even facts, but personally I will trust myself in discerning the validity of human research, rather than trusting info provided by ETs. This does not mean I will trust it 100% and always and numeric manipulations are actually something I have had to deal with a lot in my life.
Sorry bout the link, here is the right one: http://www.peakprosperity.com/discus.../peak-minerals

I understand your frustration about having to face doubt in spite of such precious info and experiences you hold, but unfortunately the information that circulates is very conflicting and a lot of it ranks highly, like yours surely does (awesome thread BTW) - like Dr Malanga for example, a lifetime dedicated to abductions and the whole ET phenomenon surely gives him too a lot of credibility. Even Marshall Vian Summers may be frustrated that people still don't listen in spite of the fact that he has met and communicated with the Angelic Assembly for 30 years. For him that is a fact just like your experiences are to you...and for us who haven't had contact, well, we still have ways to study, ponder, discuss, discern etc. and will inevitably decide something that takes us to one side or another one. It's wise to stay in the middle, but very soon there won't be a middle.

[apokalypse]

Posted by wobbegong (here)
No problem at all with me, like I said, I knew that you meant th Even Marshall Vian Summers may be frustrated that people still don't listen in spite of the fact that he has met and communicated with the Angelic Assembly for 30 years. For him that is a fact just like your experiences are to you.

what type of Contact? from what i know so far he hear a Voice that speak to him. alot of Et's out there claims to be benevolent talk the way we want to hear not the fact or bend the truth for their agenda. Contact with beings for a long time without or only meeting few times is not on.

this is the thing i'm most concern about regarding contact with Et's, people jump up and down saying they contact with Et's but not aware who are these beings really are or have no knowledge about them and didn't questioning on them.

[Abductee S]

OnyxKnight, I understand your skepticism and I'm not saying to blindly follow something. I personally, would not expect all my questions to be answered. And I won't disregard someone just because they don't bend to my needs for answers if they have given me something of much more substance than I originally asked for. That is the case imo with the Allies and some of Marshall's work.

Have you actually read the whole Book 3 of the Allies Briefings? Much is gained by what is said there, and it can give bigger answers that make some common specific questions/answers unnecessary.

[wobbegong]

Posted by apokalypse (here)
what type of Contact? from what i know so far he hear a Voice that speak to him. alot of Et's out there claims to be benevolent talk the way we want to hear not the fact or bend the truth for their agenda. Contact with beings for a long time without or only meeting few times is not on.

this is the thing i'm most concern about regarding contact with Et's, people jump up and down saying they contact with Et's but not aware who are these beings really are or have no knowledge about them and didn't questioning on them.

Sure, we all have our conclusions regarding channelled material - that's actually what kept me away from it for so long, but in my post I was just making a parallelism on how frustration can strike many in similar ways.